frequent night-time feeds

Hi Moms,


I have an eight-month-old who was exclusively breastfed for the first six months. At the moment, he

-weighs 8 kg (birth weight: 3.05 kg)

-has solids (around 170g) two times a day – 9:30 AM and 10 PM. Solids are generally cereals, veggies, lentils or fruits and, of late, a combination of two or more of these foods

-breastfeeds on demand (including nights)

-naps two to three times a day

-does only 5-7 minutes per feed (much longer, earlier)

-does not take water/juice since he has not been introduced to the sippy cup, as yet


Initially, I thought I would drop those night feeds after he cuts his first teeth. I did so for my older son who was formula-fed but in retrospect, I think that was a whole different ballgame! Anyway, now am toying with the idea of going for it earlier since I seem to have turned into a walking zombie over the past couple of months and I cannot take it anymore! So, for those of you who may be asking…


He has a feed at around 12:30 (just before I hit the sack) but he is up again at two-hourly intervals (3/5/7 AM) mainly to feed although sometimes he just nibble nurses for comfort and goes off to sleep. Ironically, his night-time feeding routine was perfectly acceptable when he was younger i.e. till about 4 months of age (12/4/8 AM).


I used to alternate breasts at each feed and he used to be content nursing from one breast per session. But after his night routine went haywire, the night feeds were mainly from the right breast since I felt too tired to get up and switch sides (baby and I used to co-sleep). Also, the left breast always seemed to produce less milk (fallout of a surgical procedure to treat the breast abscess that I developed soon after the birth of my first child). Anyway, now the milk supply on that side seems to have nosedived and these days, when put to that breast, he pulls off after a few seconds.


Yesterday hubby tried sleeping in a different room with the baby. Baby kept waking up and crying, as usual, but hubby managed to put him back to sleep – so for the first time he spent one night (8 PM to 6 AM) without nursing (in between he had his solid meal). I think if we were to keep up this routine he just might start sleeping through the night but I am afraid to implement it for fear that (1) my already diminished milk supply might vanish altogether (I intend to nurse for another year) and (2) my boy--though he has been gaining weight steadily--is a small baby (under 25th centile). Don’t want to drop the night feeds only to find his weight dwindling.



So moms, how do I drop the night feeds (or at least reduce the number) without compromising on my milk supply and/or the baby’s nutrition/weight gain? Sorry this post is so long but I am at my wits end trying to manage a toddler and an infant in this sleep-deprived state. Please help!

hi addis,


i can't help with the bf but lots of mums on this forum do bf and should be able to advise.


but i would advise that you re-look your solids feeding and the daytime naps. 10pm is way too late to feed a baby solids. at 8 months, i reckon you should start working your way towards establishing 3 proper meals for your baby - breakfast, lunch and dinner. your child turns one in 4 months - milk is and should still be an important part of his diet but he should also have more solids now and i think that would help satisfy his hunger and increase weight gain.


also, what is his bedtime? and how long does he nap during the day? if you want your child to sleep through, you will need to ensure that he sleeps enough in the day that he is not overtired and cranky but doesn't sleep so much that he can't sleep at night.

wheelymate,


I agree feeding solids at 10 in the night is insane - but I postponed it from 6 PM to 10PM in the vain hope that it would keep him full during the night. Well, it really has not helped. So, thinking of going back to the old schedule.


Bedtime is a little bit tricky. My older one was trained to go to bed before 9:30 (still does at 27 months) but have not been able to enforce a routine for the baby. These days, he goes to bed after he has that second solid meal - generally around 10 or 11 PM.


Naps are mostly two times in a day - after breakfast and then around 2 PM (occasionally a third one, around 7 PM). Each of these could be anywhere between 20 min to 2 hours - there's no telling.


I raised my older one as a vegetarian till he was about a year old. This baby, too, so far. Wondering whether animal proteins will fill him up better.


Whatever happened to all those breastfeeding moms on this forum? I need your help!

I breast fed baby for 13 months.

He also only ate 5 minutes per feed.

But he slept from 7:30 pm - 6:30 am no problem, and soon after it was 6:30 to 6:30 even though he was only in the 10%.


I think having a dedicated daytime start time, set meal times and a comforting bedtrime routine really help.


Our schedule at 8 months:

Times Tasks

6:30 Breast Feed

8:00 Breast Feed and Breakfast of Yogurt, Fruit, Cereal

9:00 Nap Time - curtains open

11:00 Breast Feed and Lunch of Vegetables and Yogurt

1:00 Nap Time – Close Curtains, let sleep until he wakes up

3:00 Breast Feed and Vegetables and Yogurt and some finger/snack food

5:00 Breast Feed and Dinner of Vegetables and Protein (tofu, lentils, no meat)

6:30 Bath, Massage, and Pajamas

7:00 Breast Feed in quiet dim light Put to Bed

7:30 Night Sleep - Dark Nursery Room


Saying that, you need to gradually adjust the times you are doing now, maybe half an hour every few days, to get to the times you want to start and end the day.


If the baby cries at night, wait 10 minutes before going in... maybe he is just looking for comfort and not food. Then have hubby go in (if he can) and try to settle him.


Also try reading some sleep advise like Ferber as it might help.

the night feeds definitely sound like habit for your son. And since you have good luck with it last night, you perhaps could continue to try it.


breastfeeding after a year old is different from breastfeeding when your baby was a newborn - most of the nutrition is met by solids, and not by your milk. You milk provides comfort, attachment, bonding and some additional benefits but it no longer will the the source of all your food for your baby. You're already experiencing a drop because your baby is getting his food elsewhere, so don't worry. Stopping night feeds isn't going to totally diminish your supply. A bunch of us working breastfeeding moms talked about how after about 7 or 8 months, pumping was SO HARD and we couldn't get anything out - and YET, our babies were still being fed and getting nutrition. (I breastfed two - one for 14 months, and one for exactly 12.) SO you won't have milk gushing out -but you are still producing as long as you are feeding. You and your baby are just more efficient.


I agree with the above posters - get your meals situation sorted out. Solids later in the day isn't going to help your baby sleep through the night. That and the whole "formula fed babies sleep longer" is over hype and not true. I think a roll over feed at around 11 or 11:30 will be good enough to help your milk supply, and your baby should sleep solidly through to the morning.


remember, not only are YOU not getting good rest with each wakeup, your baby is not either. SO teaching him the good sleep habits is important.


My kids were also vegetarians until they were a year. Both started sleep through the night at 3 months.

Hi addis,


I have a nine-month-old who weighs less than your baby (15%), but usually sleeps somewhat better (sometimes sleeping through the night). I am also breastfeeding. We have had some rough nights with colds and teething so I can certainly sympathise with the lack of sleep thing!


One trick I like, which doesn't work with all babies, is the "dreamfeed". My baby goes down much earlier than yours. I pick her up to feed in her sleep (she does wake but not fully) when I go to bed. The idea is that she gets a top-up when it's convenient to me, and she can get used to the idea of milk being supplied before she wants it, therefore she doesn't need to wake herself for milk because her needs are being anticipated. Try it and see if it improves your baby's sleep. If you find you are disturbing a deep slumber and he wakes more, drop the idea! I've actually dropped that now because her weight has improved and when I skipped the dreamfeed due to drinking a bit too much alcohol, she didn't wake up!


One advantage of the dreamfeed is that you are still doing one night feed which helps if you are worried about milk supply or weight gain. But it doesn't sound to me like you have anything to worry about there. If you are demand feeding then your supply is being stimulated frequently. Somebody has to be below 50% and it's only when you get down towards 10% that it may be a cause of concern. I agree with Hkchoichoi, your supply may SEEM lower at the moment, but that's just a natural part of mature breastfeeding, that your breasts feel less full.


The lobsided issue is also not a problem. I remember with my first child, I noticed that my baby was not satisfied with the left side alone, whereas if I fed on the right side then she didn't need the left as well. To avoid the supply on the left diminishing, I decided that with every daytime feed I would start with the left and then move to the right when she got frustrated. That seemed to help, but I still had an imbalance. Apparently it is quite normal - there was some mention of this issue in a LLL meeting I attended recently, and we were told that quite a high percentage of women (I forget the figure) have much higher milk production in their right breast compared to their left!


There are also some ideas in the Elizabeth Pantley book, "The no cry sleep solution", so you might want to take a look at that. It has techniques for gradual improvement that many people prefer to the various "cry it out" theories that are out there.

I'll repeat some advice my pediatrician gave me many, many years ago. A baby needs x number of calories in a 24 hour period. When you meet those calorie needs during the daytime feedings, the baby won't wake up hungry at night. End of story! Pedicatricians can actually calculate that magic number of calories based on your baby's weight etc, but the bottom line is that it doesn't do any good to try and "hold off" in the hopes of sending him to bed with a full tummy. Just focus on establishing good eating habits during the day, feeding healthy, nutritious foods in small, frequent meals that supply the daily need of calories. Wake him up to eat at regular intervals, anticipate when he will be hungry, and establish mealtime routines. If calorie needs are all being met during the waking 12 hours, then whatever happens at night is mostly for comfort. Therfore, not as frequent, easier to eliminate eventually (just as you are doing: pass off on dad, don't offer breast, etc), and not at all critical for nutrition. Oh, as for supply, don't worry too much. Are you working FT? If not, then feed during the day and then at night to relieve your own engorgement. But it's quite normal as others have noted for there to be less feeling of fullness as you and babe settle into a comfortable routine. As for the breast with less supply, offer it first for as long as he will nurse, then switch to the side he prefers. If it matters to you. Bottom line, don't worry too much! That's the beauty of b.f.! And after one year, it's a gradual process of weaning anyway. Some babies prefer to do it sooner than others, some sooner than their moms would like even. By 14 months of age many babies are taking all their milk from a sippee cup and eating many solids, completely weaned from breast or bottle. If that's what your little one prefers, try to accept it as a sign that he is simply an independent one!

addis,


i second mgr and everyone's advice above about solids.


i think you should work on introducing a proper breakfast, lunch and dinner for your kid at appropriate times. as you already know, 10pm solids feeding is way too late. i just wanted to add that this attempt to fill him up for the night might actually do more harm than good for everyone's sleep. think about it, if you had a meal at 10pm just before bed, you might feel really bloated and uncomfortable to sleep well!

I using Gina Ford's book as a guide and she suggest 7.a.m. breakfast, noon lunch and 6p.m. dinner. Actually my baby 7 months also still wakes up in the middle of the night but I guess we have only started weaning for 1 month and he is not eating that much solids yet. We are slowly building that up.

ladies, thank you so much for your valuable suggestions and also sharing your breastfeeding experiences. The general consensus on this thread appears to be to focus on three solid meals (as against two that we are doing, presently). Am planning to do just that. Another thing is, I have not been combining solids with breastfeeding (either before/after meals). Tried it once, recently--offered him the breast around 30 min AFTER he had had his breakfast--he gulped it all down as if there was no tomorrow and went on to posset quite a bit (for a baby who very rarely spits up-overfeeding, perhaps). Anyway, after reading crj's post I think I shall start offering the breast before mealtimes.


Once things settle down to a routine, I prolly could think of dropping the night feeds. With my elder son (bottle fed), I just let him cry it out for seven nights in a row. It was one horrendous week seeing the little one cry his eyeballs out when all he wanted was a bottle of milk. I persevered and by the end of it, he was sleeping through the night and not in the family bed (albeit in the same room). Am wondering whether this time round, I can manage it all by myself since this one is breastfed and can smell milk a mile away, lol!

Addis,


At first, I offered one breast before feeds, and one breast after.


But when baby started eating more, he didn't want any breast milk after the feed, so it became only before.


Then a few more months later eventually was able to 'stop' feeds at meal times as he wasn't interested and was eating a storm. He really led this, by just not taking any... I think there is a post on dropping feeds where this is discussed in detail (but don't worry about this for a few months!)


Hope that helps.


Good luck!!