Posted by
Beetlesmum
19 yrs ago
Hi,
I am hoping that someone can share this experinace with me or give some advice on this situation.
I have a little 8 months old baby girl that I love taking with me wherever I go. But I have found that whether I am in a lift, a shop, a train, a ferry that strangers reach out and touch her face or hands. This is really beginning to stress me out each time I go out with her because last week I had her in the pupoos and I was doing a grocery shop when a woman (I don't know) pulled her leg and really hurt her. I got quite agressive back at the woman not only because I got a fright but also because she really hurt my daughter.
I feel that to touch a babies hands (they are always in the mouth) and to touch her face is very unhygenic but I also just don't think it is appropriate for strangers to do this.
Can anyone share any thoughts about this.
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Hi,
Me too, same situation. Local chinese tends to touch his cheeks and hands, i have a wipes ready and just wipe off immediately what they touched. Sounds like i'm Mr. Monk ;-)
One chinese woman even squeeze my baby cheeks with her both hands, i almost pushed her but i controlled and just go away from her.
That's my concern just going down our building, it starts from our guard on duty ;-)
Just think that our babies are so adorable that they can't help touching.
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We thought it was bad here but we recently went to Shanghai on holiday, and the kids got so much of attention everywhere we went. People would go out of their way (literally) to come and have a look at the kids, touch their face, hands, take photos. Needless to say, my 8 month old caught a cold and quickly passed it on to me, hubby and his 2 1/2 year old brother.
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Kmom
19 yrs ago
oh yeah. my son would even get "carried" by the sales attendants at the mall! You just learn to deal with it without being offensive as I don't think they mean harm. They are just really fond of babies and are very open with their appreciation.
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yup, I had the exact experience as well. My baby is 5 months old now. His face is quite chubby and draws everyone attention wherever he goes. Once, my hub and I went to the McDonald near our place to have a refreshment, there come the cleaning lady to touch his face. You know..it was really awful to see that when you can see the cleaning lady was also carrying her cleaning towel. It was too late to stop her. The second time, we put our baby in the stroller and covered it up. We guess he will be safe. You know, the cleaning lady reconize that was him and came again. Within a second, she opened up the cover and touched his face even worse, she asked why we covered it up. We were so mad and told her not to open the cover and said the baby was sleeping....
We dare not to go there anymore.
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bbvv
19 yrs ago
We're chinese and my bubs gets touch each time we go out. It's his big eyes that attracts everyone. I know they mean no harm and we too carry wipes to clean him off after each touch. He is teething at the moment and puts everything inside his mouth hence don't want him to catch any unwanted germs.
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Appropriate? It is most certainly appropriate for this part of the world. It is not appropriate in this part of the world to react by shouting at strangers who are behaving appropriately - your real issue is "How safe is it for my baby?" and also "What can I do to prevent my child being accosted?"
It is not bad to be exposed to germs - we know that the more a child is shielded (within reason) the higher the chances of developing asthma. Now what is reasonable exposure to germs? Pass.
As for being accosted - it will happen, so as said, bring wipes with you, smile pleasantly and remove your child from grasp.
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I say pick your battles. I now do not mind people touching my son (although I would stop somepne who was a cleaner on duty). However a couple of weeks ago a lady gave my son a dried apricot and it took me 10 minutes to prise it out of his mouth. He could have choked on it!
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I used to flip out when we first moved to Shanghai too. I have 2 girls who look like twins however arent but are euroasian. Half chinese half caucasian. Which i think causes even more attention because they want to see which part is mommy and which part is daddy. I am the caucasian and i find it hard to have people grabbing at both my kids. One gets grabbed screams then 2nd one is screaming cuz she is being grabbed.
Now when we go out kids are used to all the touching and grabbing and will react in their own way to let the stranger know dont touch me. If they interreact with the stranger i let it be if they are uncomfortable they let the stranger know and we walk off or move away.
I have had ppl try to pick my youngest 2 almost 3 yr old out of shopping cart before and i tell them no and grab her and move away.
Its just how they are here. Most i would say are doing what is culturally acceptable for them. People in china can only have 1 child. Children are a rare gem and when they see children they want to reach out and touch because for most of them they will only have one. However, Hong Kong is different parents can have as many as they want *right now*.
Anywhere you go its going to be dirty. Others touching your kids well might be dirty but like many moms said they bring wipes to clean it off.
I personally try to be nice if someones playing with my kids. At first i used to move away all scared and worried my kids were being mauled by strangers. Now i am used to it. Being 7 months pregnant with a 4 and almost 3 yr old ppl come over even more so very curious how someone can handle more then one child and be pregnant.
Over time you will get used to it and even play with the kids with the stranger. The best thing is patience and understanding for the stranger who probably doesnt understand why you are flipping out because he/she just touched ur kid. They probably think you dont like chinese or such and have their feelings hurt because you reacted in such a manner.
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I think the wipes idea is great idea I will make sure to always keep them at hand.
Thank you for sharing your experiance and advice it is much appreciated.
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As a parent who feared losing a child to MRSA, I think we are entited to protect our children. Cultural differences or not; when the genuinely lovely cleaning lady in our development comes to stick her fingers in my son's face (she empties bins all day and does not wear gloves), I pull him back.
A few germs here and there are fine, but having spent more time than any parent wants to in ICU with an ill child due to someone's poor hand hygiene, I am prepared to live with offending someone for thier protection. And baby wipes do not kill superbugs!
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Cultural differences work both ways. As a parent you have the right to protect your child and if you don't feel comfortable with strangers touching your children than that is your perogative. I agree with south side, baby wipes are to clean little grubby faces not to protect against germs and superbugs.
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I agree with Cara. I have often wondered why people are so worried about others touching their little ones. I think over time you get used to it here. That is partially how one builds up an immune system. I also carry bacterial wet wipes and wet wipes. If it is a cleaning lady, yes I would pull back. My husband and I are both Caucasian with an Asian baby and people come up and touch her all the time. A friend of mine is SOOOO worried about germs, etc and constantly wipes the baby and 3 yr olds hands. Yet both kids are always sick with a cold or some sort of bug.
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Has anyone yet mentioned verbally asking the person not to touch the child? The first week we lived in China, a Chinese person (now a good friend) said of my daughter, "She needs to know how to say, 'please, don't touch me,'" and she then proceeded to teach my child how to say, "qing, bie mu wo!" (Hate to say, I don't know how to say it in Cantonese, but here in GZ everyone knows Mandarin a/w/a Cantonese.) A parent can learn the same language skill, practice how to say that phrase, or if in a hurry just say "bu keyi!" and keep moving. My child is also blonde and has blue eyes and (when she was little) had the type of show-stopper appearance that had everyone wanting to have their photograph made with her, even in HK. It's not a perfect solution, but one way we developed of dealing with this was to put a hat that covered hair, sunglasses, and clothes that disguised her caucasian appearance. That, plus she developed the nasty little expat-kid habit of being downright rude to kindly people after she grew sick of the attention (say, after the 40th photograph of the day?). Not that I like it or think it's an ideal solution, but a very unpleasant, hissing child is a pretty effective deterrent in and of itself, especially if mommy says, "Qing, bie peng ta," (please don't touch her) or "ta hen lei" (she's very tired). [Substitute whatever language is appropriate!]
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This is a P.S., but what is MRSA? And also -- as to the issue of exposure to germs building immunity -- well, don't be too judgmental! I've found through experience that different children have different degrees of built-in immunity, so you can't judge merely based on one factor! I had one child who would get a cold at the drop of a hat, and then the cold would always seem to turn into a terrible ear infection or bronchitis. It seemed she was sick all the time, and everyone was full of advice about what I was doing wrong. And then, I have another child who never gets sick from anything, and when she does get sick she doesn't feel bad and wants to go to school anyway! Same germs, same food, same house, same family, even some of the same allergies, so go figure! The child who is susceptible to illness is the one who is the most healthy eater in the family. I think it's partly just a matter of constitution!
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hot topic.
people love to touch my little girls here in Seoul too. I have an extremely fair toddler - with soft curly brown hair (and she's full Korean so go figure) and she always gets looks and stares. People want to buy her candy and food (I hate this) and offer her candy on the street. I've had to teach my daughter NOT to take candy from strangers, which is hard, because she wants it. Culturally here, telling someone in Korean, "Don't touch my baby" is really rude and really obnoxious since they are only "admiring" the baby.
I used to get paranoid in the shops, with my daughter strapped to my bjorn and having people come up and touch her hands and stuff like that. I've just gotten used to it and think that I'll just build up the immune system this way anyways. You can't avoid germs - and if you want to go outside, I think you'll have to learn to be protective. I have found holding the baby in the bjorn face in, and then holding on to my baby's hands as a way to prevent unnecessary grabbing (baby is holding on to my hand - can't hold on to someone else's.)
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Yep, and hkchoichoi I guess it's kind of hard to say "she's tired" while baby is grabbing eagerly for the candy she is being offered! I really hate to be rude, most especially to people who are being genuinely kind and friendly. Another way to deal with some of the "too much attention" with a young child is to wear the baby, just as you say. Use "body English" to block approaches(you hold baby just out of reach, keep your body between person and babe), and always keep baby physically located within "shielding range" of mommy and daddy? My daughter has also learned to cooperate -- now that she is older, she stays close by. And maybe if "please don't touch him" is rude, a parent could find something less offensive to say, maybe something like, "sorry, [she's allergic to candy] . . . [we're in such a big hurry] . . . [she's really tired today] . . . [doctor says no touching]? I guess in the end, though, I decided as a mom it's my foremost responsibility to protect my child. There has been that very rare person who pinches, who grabs child and runs, or who really does seem like they have TB or something. My child depends on me to protect her, and the bottom line is that my duty to her is higher than my duty to the stranger. She needs to be able to trust me to protect her, and she does have feelings about it. I really, really try not to be rude, and I put up with more touching than even my child would like, but at the end of the day, I think for me the bottom line is that I do whatever it takes to protect her. I well remember chasing after a waitress in a restaurant as she carried my child to the kitchen (turns out she was just showing her to another waitress), chasing after a shop keeper at Hua Shan as she tried to entice my daughter to beg me to purchase some overpriced trinket (I made no effort to be kind in response to this little kidnapping), and rescuing my child from another waitress, at another restaurant, who was "showing" her the alligators by placing her on top of the cage and (unwittingly) terrifying her! These are three cases where I wasn't quite fast enough to pre-empt the occasion, but since them I've gotten a bit more "aware" of situations about to happen, use more physical contact like holding my child or holding her hand, and there are times when I have felt like I had to say no even when it was perceived as rude.
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I guess "respect" is the most important issue. Indeed, it is delighted that my bub can be so "attractive",I dont mind ppl staring at him, talking to him or even touching his hands or little feet. BUT please ask the parents first before they want to hold him pinch his chubby face. As a parent, I really feel uncomfortable and just too late to ask them not to do so. Just a simple question. Why not ask?
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Meiquoren, it's Methicillin Resistant (i.e. resistant to antibiotics)Staphylococcus Aureus. It is carried by approx 25% of the population with no problems at all, but if it spreads to someone who is already ill or who is rebuilding their immunity, then it can lead to a very serious and often fatal infection.
It is spread in the same way as less virilant gerns - by touch, usually by someone who had just been touching their own eyes, nose etc.
Our children are exposed to all sorts of bugs on a daily basis, otherwise they would never get to go to school, playgroups, theme parks etc. We are neurotic about hand hygiene though.
We leave the photo thing to the children. If someone comes at them with a camera, we ask whether they want to have their photo taken. Sometimes they are happy to have their photos taken, even play to the camera. Other days they are just not interested, so we politely say to the 'photographer' that they would prefer not have their photo taken. Unfortunately, this exchange is in English on our part. Must learn at least a few of these phrases.
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cd
19 yrs ago
If I had $1 for every time one of my kids had had their photo taken,I'd be a rich woman now. The only time the touching became a problem was on a short break in Bangkok, I had my then 4 month old in the sling and she'd started coming down with croup that afternoon (got so bad we had to call the doctor to the hotel during the night), I was getting so stressed with the touching as she wasn't well that I just wanted to tell them all to f... off, managed to hold my tongue though.
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Souths, thanks for the info. Sorry this happened and it must have been terribly frightening.
CD, your idea is great! I think we should turn the tables for once and charge at least 5 quai per shot?! Can you imagine the looks on the faces if we did?
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Totty
19 yrs ago
My kids are 6 and 4 and have lived here all their life, ones dark with freckles other is blonde with huge eyes.
Wherever they go they have stangers glaring at them, touching them, etc......so now they have come up with the idea that if someone wants a picture it's $10 and if they just want a look it's $5, and if my girls aren't in the mood they just shout 'mower, mower'. Me and hubby stand back and watch them with pride. However i do get rather rude when people are taking sneeky pics or don't ask.
On one hand you should be extremely flattered that someone thinks so much of your child/children as to go out of there way to take a closer look BUT i do understand what a pin in the backside it is.
When one of them was 9 months we went to Beijing and she came back with bruises covering her thighs and cheeks were people had been pinching her. ALso i think the baby wipe thing is rather excessive, germs never hurt anyone and as others have says it builds the immune system hence making kids stronger.
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With our both babies, very close in age, my daughter blond with blue eyes, we get a lot of people touching, taking pics etc... For the touching I've learnt how to prevent certain people from touching (cleaning lady, old Chinese grandma who are prone to pinching, old Chinese grandpa who would talk loud in Cantonese and make them cry)...
However I sometimes enjoy that the sales attendant in a shop will play with them, carry around my son so I can try on a pair of shoes for instance ! If I were in France, the shop attendant would be looking forward for me to leave the shop instead of trying to help me with my kids !!!!!!
I'm teaching my daughter that she has a right not to want to be touched and that she can just say so. As for my son I don't have to intervene so much anymore since her big sister is always the quickest to protect him !
Am not too stressed by my kids getting germs from other people... but I don't understand that other people (the touching persons) do not realize about that... Aren't we in a country where 4 years ago people would go away from you if you coughed in the MTR and didn't wear a mask ? Where they would disinfect lift buttons every hour ? People have very short memory indeed...
People here come and touch kids, but they always look disgusted when you let baby touches something on the floor, or kissing a window shop, which am really not stressed about... I guess it's 'cultural'.
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Totty, you say that 'germs never hurt anyone', I'm not sure that South Side would agree.
HKBlue, we try to teach our children that, as SusieW says, they have a right not to be touched and they can say no. I would say that in South Side's case he was getting stressed out on a serious issue - watching an infant battle for his/her life in ICU is pretty stressful and serious in my view.
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Totty
19 yrs ago
Regretfully i have watched a small child fight for her life in the ICU but now i'm glad to say that that same little girl is a strong fighter and is the first to get dirty, the first to put her dirty hands in her mouth.
When i said 'germs never hurt anyone' i meant the small, and probably harmaless, germs someone has on their hands when they touch a child. Probably shouldn't have said but there you go.
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On my "bad China" days it bugs me, but mostly I do try and take it as a compliment that people find my blonde haired blue eyed daughter so gorgeous. Of course mostly they ask if she's a boy... which I also try and take as a compliment here in China!!
I do find though that 90% of photos are done without asking and if I see that happening I move a hand up over her face or something. I think it's rude not to ask, and when people do ask I usually say yes, just because they've had the manners to ask. People don't understand if you say "that's rude" or bad manners. In their eyes it's not rude at all - just the opposite.
I suggested to a lady in a shop who wouldn't bargain that if each of the shop assistants who'd take a pic of DD gave me 5kuai we'd have a deal - she didn't seem to get that!!
The most annoying thing is when people try to take her thumb out of her mouth though - knowing surely, that she'll put it straight back in - and even worse, when they try and put something in her hand to stop her putting the thumb back in - YUK!!
With the candy thing I usually take it and say "thank you, she's just had her lunch but I'll give it to her at tea time and she'll enjoy it" or words to that effect and put it in my bag.
Mostly though you have to let it all wash over you - you'd never go anywhere in China if you let it bother you. It has made me more of a baby wearing Mummy though than I ever expected to be!!
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This is tricky...
on one hand you feel so flattered people think your bub is adorable.
on the other hand...the potential germs....eeeks
i don't mind people touching my kid but i would rather they didn't kiss him. that said, i have been unable to stop that because i didn't know how to say it politely. and these people don't mean any harm. there were a bunch of tourists who picked my kid up, planted a huge kiss on his cheeks and took photos like he was a celebrity. the other was a neighbour.
if you are really concerned, you can pretend and say your baby is unwell and therefore you don't want to pass on the germs. or you can put your kid in a stroller with those sunshade or you can quickly whip out the wet wipes when you are out of sight from those people who played with your baby!
spicegal- mine has been given all kinds of sweets from total strangers...i always say thank you and later eat them myself (when it's just us of course), hahahaahah!!
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
HKBlue, I think 'the fuss' is that it sometimes upsets the children and people do not take 'no' for an answer.
As outlined above, there are sinister consequences to poor hygiene. A neighbour of ours lost a very young baby to a superbug. When they tested all members of family and the medical team that treated him, they could not find anyone carrying the bug and had to conclude that it was a well meaning stranger who had done so. Fortunately these cases are rare, but the point is that germs do not always build the immune system, they sometimes wipe it out. The rarity was of little consolation to our friends though.
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Wow! Fascinating and kind of scary at the same time. My husband is working in Beijing now. My daugther and I will be joining him in June. Our daughter is 2 yrs old and is Asian American. I have been warned that ppl will treat her like she's a celeberity and will smother her bc they adore mixed/foreign kids. Reading everyone's comment kind of scares me a little, but think that this is awesome info everyone is providing.
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Cara, must be us Canadians who don't mind it so much. It really doesn't bother me. I don't like food or candy given to my daughter though.
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sparr921, my daughter really does think she's a celebrity - she does a royal wave as we go down the street cos she's so used to people waving and pointing at her. When we're in a taxi and a bus pulls up alongside she waves too - all this attention and I'm sure she's going to grow up to be a total diva! Then again, she'll orobably start having a backlash against it when she reaches 2!
Good luck with the move - BJ is awesome, I used to live there and would love to move back.
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It can be very overwhelming for small kids and babies. Imagine if dozens of people were making a fuss over YOU every time you stepped out the door! And every time you stopped walking you were surrounded 5 deep by people commenting in a foreign language about EVERYTHING you do. Yikes!
My daughters were esp annoyed when they would say, 'You are more beautiful than your sister!'
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Totty
19 yrs ago
How about a stranger coming up to a then 4 year old and telling her she's ugly because she has freckles. Wanted to deck her!
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LOL im american and i dont get too upset unless i feel that person isnt someone i want touching my child. I have had a man walk up and try to pick my 2 almost 3yr old up out of the cart. I grabbed his arm and told him no and he was a bit put off and left. Thats one thing i wont tolerate. Back home if a man comes and picks your kid up you freak out!
However, most times unless my kid is flipping out ill let it be and play along with the locals. One thing i hate is the repeated question for my eurasian girls " Are they twins?" Everytime we go out all i hear is "They are so beautiful, and look they must be twins" its only because i hear it over and over that i find it annoying hehe.
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Hey I love that people adore my boys. I feel great pride that my boys bring joy and light into the lives of these older people who live around us who don't have enough to do.
And the security guards and cleaning ladies can pick up our bubs no problems by me as long as I'm close by.
But what I do do is monitor their mood and protect them accordingly, I'll just rush the kids past or say "no he doesn't feel like being with people today" Actually my oldest one will defend himself and his little brother well enough, that people will back off.
I think kids get used to living with this attention because they have to in this environment. Better to learn young to be relaxed with people staring at you, than stressed about it cause it makes mum so angry all the time. And I've noticed that many expats have a hostile look on their faces when out in public, maybe it's the stress of everyone looking at you and encroaching on your space or whatever but it'd be nice if my kids don't grow up with same need for space if they're going to be living in Hong Kong.
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Spicegal, I think it's awesome your daughter thinks she's a celebrity. I'm sure she is a princess! All little girls are, right?
And Totty...I would have wanted to deck the person for making such a comment. I think Asians, especially older ones tend to be very rude. I am Asian, but grew up in the US and still have a hard time excepting that part of the Asian culture...I remember when I gained 10 lbs and having my aunt, uncles, friends of the family tell me that I was FAT!!! At the time I was only 108 lbs!!!
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Jassy & Cara, it's not just you, I'm a Brit and I never minded people touching my kids when they were little ... it made me feel very proud that other people thought my kids were as beautiful as I did!
As for the germ thing, it never entered into my mind, maybe some people would think me irresponsible, but it never did the kids any harm and once they're crawling around what's the point ... everything goes in their mouth anyway. I think some people can become a little too obesessive. No disrespect to anyone who has had a child fall seriously ill through someone passing on germs, but thankfully those cases are extremely rare.
Also, I don't think it's just Chinese culture ... my kids were both born in the UK and they were always getting touched when I went out with them, especially by elderly people and I wouldn't have dreamt of offending them when they were just being friendly and polite. The photo taking was a bit of a surpirse though ... we first moved to Asia when my daughter was 3, and with white blonde hair and huge blue eyes, she certainly got lots of attention ... which she quickly learnt how to handle! She would get very annoyed with strangers and I would be the one apologising to them saying that she didn't like to have her photograph taken, mostly people would understand what I was trying to say and were often apologetic. I don't think I ever actually needed to offend anyone. However, my kids were never hurt by anyone being overly friendly, so I guess in those circumstances I would most definitely offend!
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