Posted by
hotmama
19 yrs ago
any ideas on how to teach stranger danger to our toddlers in Hong Kong. it is neccessary for our travels to places like Australia etc however Hong Kong is a different kettle of fish when you are constantly approached by tourist and offered sweets etc
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
I think those who've had children abducted or worse might disagree HKBlue! Before you attack my 'paranoia', I am speaking from negative personal experience and that of very close friends.
Hotmama, we're trying to walk the fine line between being polite and teaching a healthy caution re. strangers at the moment. We've been trying to encourage them to be polite to people, but not trust everyone implicitly. We are very firm that when they are with us, and someone speaks to them, they should respond politely. Even if they do not want the sweets, they should say thank you and put them in my handbag etc. after the person has gone. If they do not want their photos taken, they should just say 'no thank you'. They know that they should never follow anyone away from us.
The other side of it is that they know that when we leave them in the care of another adult (teacher, helper, friend etc), they must abide by their rules and respectfully say if they are uncomfortable with something.
We allow them to run a bit ahead of us in shops etc. when we are in HK, but they must always stay by our sides (or within easy reach in a park) when we are in England, Australia etc.
We are a long way from feeling we've got the balance right. It is much easier with our 4 year old than our toddler too (at least we get more coherent feedback). Would love to hear other parents' suggestions.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
They don't always make it to the news. It's not a new thing either. Someone tried to drag my sister and I into a car when I was 8 years old (my father had popped into the bathroom while we were in the playground). A friend of mine was being bundled into a car (again, about 25 years ago) while walking home from school. As luck would have it, her neighbour, who happened to be a policeman was driving past in his own car, recognised her and saved her from God knows what.
There was a story in England (last year, I think - possibly the year before) of a 3 year old who was grabbed while his mother tried on a pair of shoes. By the time she realised, he was gone less than a couple of minutes. They sealed off all of the doors in the shopping centre and scrutinised CCTV. The child was found within half an hour or so (cannot remember exactly), with a different set of clothes and new hair colour.
The children's photos on milk cartons in the US are hardly a new phenomenon either.
We used to have a part time nanny in London, who had been a nursery nurse before working as a nanny. She had some very scary stories about people trying to collect children from her nursery, claiming to be aunts/uncles etc (using various excuses like family emergency and so on).
Another friend's brother was molested by a teacher on a school tour. We indirectly know one person who has been jailed on several counts of child abuse - someone who on the face of it was an upstanding member of the community.
Fortunately these were not daily occurences, but I think it's sensible to be cautious without instilling the fear of God in your children.
jwng, we did not really start talking about things like this with our eldest until she was about 2 and a half. Until that point, we just encouraged her to hold our hands, stay nearby etc. It was not all about fear of strangers either, also about preventing them from running out on the road etc. Our toddler kind of hears it by default, not sure how much is registering.
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Good question, this is something I am so terrified of. My baby is an extremely friendly child and I dont ever want him to lose that. BUT some people are sick and this is big bad world.
Here is an interesting link:
http://www.illinoisearlylearning.org/tipsheets/strangers.htm
I think I'd stress the bit about don't even go with someone whom you know, unless I (or other responsible adult) personally hands you over to that person. From reports, even known (especially known?) people can pick a child up from wherever and take them off and nobody would know any better.
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@@
19 yrs ago
We started telling the children they were not to take treats from anyone without asking us first.
As they have got older we have also explained that no one is allowed to touch their genitals without making sure it's ok with us (doctor visit etc)
I think while they were very little the chance of the children being out of my sight is pretty limited (esp in HK) but now one is at school I feel I need to increase his awareness of some dangers in the world.
Horrible, horrible that we have to take these measures. I still take my 6 year old to the womens toilets with me.
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I've just been reading some of HKBlue's other posts on this and other forums, I don't think that he/she is for real, just trying to get a reaction out of genuine posters (e.g. 'Strangers Touching Bub' thread on this forum).
One thing we've noticed since we moved here is how child abductions make it out of the news very quickly. There was one story on Sky News a few months ago about the limp body of a child of approx. 3 being seen stuffed into the boot of a car. Then that was it - no follow up. Hopefully that meant that the child was found asfe and well and case closed.
Another was about a car chase on the M4 (driving from Wales towards London) that resulted in a 4 year old being recovered. Turned out that the child had been gang raped. The recovery of the child was pure luck. The only thing that attracted police attention was the speed of the driver. The abuse of the child was reported as an aside.
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I genuinely hope that it works out for you and your boys then HKBlue!
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no, you are being irresponsible if you think you can just let your 6 year run into a loo unsupervised.
obviously by 6, the kid should go into the cubicle and pee alone but the parent should still be in the bathroom, right outside the cubicle waiting.
it is important to teach your child the real world and this real world is filled with insecurities that you SHOULD warn your child about. prevention is better than cure. i think i would rather be "insecure" and teach my child to be wary of strangers then let things happen and then go, yes my darling, there are some bad people out there, just learn your lesson and hope it never happens again - too late then, don't you think?
anyway, back to original topic - mine is 14 mnths and people offer sweets to him all the time. i let him take it, say thank you and put it in my bag. but when he is older and understands, i will tell him he must never accept sweets without my permission. and definitely teach him about sex ed and how being touched by anyone unless it's a proper medical exam is WRONG.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
If my parents had not taught us how to react when a stranger approaches us, I shudder to think what might have happened to my sister and I when I was 8!
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
HKBlue, differing opinions are what these forums are about, but I think that your comments such as 'Get stressed out on serious issues guys' appear to want to provoke people, hence the assumptions above. Your responses on both threads dismiss the real and often scary experiences of other posters. I'm guessing that's why someone assumed that you were a troll.
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@@
19 yrs ago
I read somewhere that shopping centres in Australia are now introducing family toilets to solve the alarming increase of assaults on young children.
I do think a 9 year old (while would not be able to defend himself physically) could perhaps read a situation much better than a 6 year old.
Anyway, I know this is an area I'm a bit OTT about - just happens to be my big fear.
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Totty
19 yrs ago
Interesting thread.......
A little girl of 3 has just been abducted from her holiday apartment whilst asleep, the child abducted and driven down the M$, the body of a lifeless child found in abott of a car, a child taken from the bath and found naked in an alleyway......it happens, maybe not here but it happens.
My kids, 6 and 4, were born here and i thank the lord that they live in this safe environment. Each time i go back to the UK i need to remind them to hold on to an adults hand, not to go charging off in malls, or supermarkets and i have to take them to the loo when in public, a 7 year old was raped in Sainsburys whilst using the loo on her own last year. It's hard telling kids this age why they mst be with an adult but they understand why and that it is for their own safety and it's also, when asked, one of the reasons they don't want to go back to the UK.
I think tell your kids as much as you feel comfortable telling them and let then know that as long as they are with you, you will look after them and protect them.
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cd
19 yrs ago
The 3 year old you mention was left alone sleeping in an apartment, along with her 2 year old siblings while the parents went out to dinner. I think some blame should be placed with the parents for leaving 3 under 3's unattended. But saying that, I really hope she's found safe and well.
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Not sure that it's a time to be apportioning blame. Apparently the parents were checking back on the children every 15 minutes. What's so scary is that someone was clearly watching the apartment and waiting for the right opportunity to snatch the poor child.
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Well HKBlue I think your claim that 'I really don't think you should be teaching it at all' in response to the original poster's question about how far we should go to teach children about stranger danger (versus how to be polite to admiring strangers in HK) has caused this tangent.
The first few replies were about balancing politeness, caution and avoiding putting the fear of God into children. Your response was to imply that parents were 'painting a sorry picture here of the "other" countries' and asking when the last abduction hit the news. The answer is - this w/e.
You then went on to indicate that you considered @@ a failure as a parent for taking her child into the loo with her. Incidentally, there is a
big difference between standing outside a cubicle while your child is inside it and leaving the child outside while you are locked inside.
Everyone draws the line in a different place, none of us have the right to act superior in our caution or lack thereof. The original question was seeking for opinions, people are less likely to give them if they are only going to be attacked for 'hinder[ing their] child's natural development because of [their] insecurites'.
You are indeed very lucky that you have never had close experience of a child's life being ruined by strangers or sick family members. Others have not been so fortunate.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
In response to the questions above, I'm not sure that there is an age at which a child should be ready to go to public toilets/playground etc. unaccompanied. It totally depends on the child, the circumstances etc. Hence the importance of trying to prepare them rather than dismissing stranger danger as a concept for paranoid parents.
I am with Saikunga. I kept thinking that I would get more relaxed with time, but I have not, I just have to slowly let go as each child seems ready. My eldest was ready to go to nursery school unaccompanied younger than my youngest, for example. She shows greater confidence in herself and with other adults. Does not mean that I would not prefer that she was with me though, or that I am not relieved every time that I collect her.
We are currently debating whether she's ready to hear about 'inappropriate touching' and cannot decide what's best. So far we have only told her that she should say if something does not feel right or if she's not comfortable with something. We want her to behave at school etc., but do not want her to blindly trust adults (even family). The fine line is how to protect her without destroying her childhood innocence.
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I'm not sure that anyone is talking about educating children about strangers excusively. Note the references to general confidence and ability to speak up when a child does not feel comfortable about something, as above.
As far as general hygiene is concerned, we have a bit more control in our own houses. I certainly would have no qualms about refusing to let a friend or family member hold a baby if they had not washed their hands (and it is the direct result of an immune problem with one child, not general neurosis). I do not have that control with a stranger. I agree with you that there is a link between this and the other thread. Principally because I believe that children need to be confident that they have the right to say when they do not like a situation. How can we tell a four year old that he/she should allow strangers to grab him/her for a photo against their will but tell them that they should not run off with someone who is not looking after them at that point in time?
Nobody has said that 'everyone you meet, you don't know, is dangerous can also be quite damaging', just that neither we nor our children should trust people implicitly. Everyone has the right to say when something does not feel right - be it uncle, teacher, priest or stranger.
I don't believe that careful education (which in your first reply, you said was totally unecessary)prevents abduction, molestation etc., but it gives a child a first line of defence. For example, our children know that one of the circumstances when it is OK to shout in public is if anyone is tryiung to take them somewhere is forcing them to do something that feels wrong.
I am not trying to join an attack on you, however neither am I prepared to be labelled insecure or paranoid for trying to instill a sense of self into my children.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
I can see the link between the two threads. I agree with Dora, that sometimes it means rejecting 'harmless' approaches from strangers (photo taking etc.), but that's all part of teaching them that their bodies are their own.
I honestly hope that I am not teaching my children that strangers are dangerous per se, just that they should distinguish between what feels right and what does not, and not be afraid to shout out when they are uncomfortable. That applies to everyone - familiar to them or not. I have always thought that 'Stranger danger' was just a generic term applied to teaching children how to recognise and respond to 'dangerous' situations.
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I have been trying to teach stranger danger to my 4 and 2 yr old. I think it should be a normal requirement for a parent. Everyone has their own personal thoughts, opinions and shouldnt tell others what they should or shouldnt be teaching their child. Each parent child and family are different.
Whether stranger or someone known children can get hurt. You cannot prevent a situation from happening 100% however yyou can teach your child to know what is wrong or right and if they are uncomfortable its best to remove them from that situation whether or not it is harmless. I do not think strangers are the cause of every bad situation it can be someone you know. So teaching children over all what is right or wrong what should a child do in such a situation.
Everyone views things different and attacking another over how that person sees things isnt a proper or nice thing to do. Some may feel that there is no danger in anything related and others feel there is alot of danger. How one chooses to teach/raise their child/children is their business and how another person feels about it shouldnt be pushed onto that person. It is really a one sided view of things. Perhaps you should rethink of how you would feel if someone said those things to you.
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I've taught my kids by TALKING to them a lot and using an "as need to know" approach in terms of how gruesome the details needed to be. Anyway . . . yeah, I don't want to destroy their innocence but sometimes they need to know WHY we are so concerned and the reasons for our paranoia so they can learn what the risks are and take appropriate steps to take care of themselves. Not just to grow up thinking that mom is a hysterical maniac. For a two year old, that might take the form of an admonishment to always touch mommy while we are in a car park. For an older child, it might take the form of much more detailed explanation of the risks. For instance, to drill into my teens heads that someone always needed to know where they were and when to expect them to arrive -- and also the rule that the person they were with knew that they were expected home by someone who knew where they were -- I told them about a girl whose only mistake was that the person she was with knew that no one knew where she was or who she was with. He was linked to her body only through DNA evidence. So, gross yes but I hope it helps them to be sensible. Teens are so insensible and non-cognizant of risk that it's hard to tell if it helps or not!
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Totty
19 yrs ago
This desn't help with the teaching of stranger danger bit but gives them a little independance. We're buying our 6 year old some Motorola walkie talkies for her birthday, it mean she can go to the playground and play without us, go to the loo without us, wander off a bit without us all the wahile being in contact with us, this is no way a fail safe mechanism but makes her feel trusted.
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