4fox, tell em to p--- off!
I work full time, I refuse to bake, I cannot stitch, my helper takes my baby to his playgroup crikey, what sort of mom am I!!!!!!! LOLOLOLOL
We all do our best with all our limitations, so you tell em what to do with their opinions!
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MayC
19 yrs ago
Depends on individuals and we should all respect each other's choices.
Me for one, I wanted to give my baby breastmilk so I pumped exclusively for 10 months.
My mother did it differently. She gave me breastmilk for 6 weeks (supplemented by formula) and thought it was too difficult so she gave up.
I didn't suffer because I was deprived of breastmilk. I was Dux of the year (meaning #1 in year 11/Form 5) at high school and came third in the final year. I don't want to blow my own trumpet (we don't meet each other anyway), I just want to point out that if you don't give breastmilk, it doesn't mean that your kids will not do well at school.
Research does say that breastfeeding helps improve brain power, immunity, allergy etc but it doesn't mean that those who don't, will be at a disadvantage.
As mothers, we can only do the best we can :-)
I didn't breastfeed directly but expressed it but I'm 100% sure my daughter knows that she's being loved. She gets endless kisses and cuddles from mummy and she pretends to cry so that she gets more of them. The cheeky little thing!!!
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
Wow! I thought that the problem in HK was the opposite. A few of my friends despaired of trying to find places where they could breast feed and ended up giving up much earlier than planned. I've been with a couple of women who were told off for feeding their babies in public (when I hardly noticed despite sitting at the same table).
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we all know breast is best.
in an ideal world, babies will all be exclusively breastfed.
but breastfeeding itself is something you really need to work at. and just as your pregnancy and birth and baby are very different, your breastfeeding experience will also be very different from other mums.
i WANTED to breastfeed because i was staying at home full time. i refused to buy any bottles except those that could store breastmilk. i refused to buy a steriliser.
but from the first night after giving birth, i knew it would be a tough road. the night nurse told me i would need a nipple shield because my nipples were too short. i refused because from all my research, any acceptance of anything artificial would affect the breastfeeding experience.
so i pressed on. but a week later, i woke up one morning with a very high fever. i had mastitis. the midwife at my doc's clinic told me just to keep pumping to keep the supply so that i could continue to breastfeed. but i went home that day and told my hubby i did not want to do it. that very day, my son had his 1st bottle of formula. i felt like the biggest failure in the world (just one week) but i also knew i was very close to going mad and hurting myself and possibly my baby.
should i have tried harder? maybe i should have. because the grass was't necessarily greener on the other side. my formula fed baby rejected milk after a few months, we had to do solids at 5 months. when he was ill, i cried to my husband saying that it was all my fault because i couldn't breastfeed.
my boy is now the happiest 14 month baby you can find in singapore. he eats and sleeps generally well. if we have a 2nd child, i will try to breastfeed again, i will use the nipplette to prepare my breasts for the experience. but if it goes pear shaped, again, i will also have no qualms about stopping and will not feel bad about it. because my decision is that my baby will be better off on a bottle with a happy mother than one that cannot stop crying.
4fox, it's just my story and it's just my own opinion. i think breastfeeding is great but if you have chosen not too, don't apologise and don't be afraid tell people to P*ss off if they scold you for it. but at the same time, i don't know who has been telling you that you are a bad mum for not breastfeeding. if they are mums from your babygroup or whatever, DUMP THEM. because they sound toxic and unsupportive. out of my entire babygroup, i breastfed for the shortest period. but nobody has ever given me a hard time about it. my friend who exclusively breastfed her kid for 9 months until he self-wean tells me to get over myself when i start to feel even the slightest bit bad about not having done it.
good luck and be strong!
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i remember with my first i had alot of problems and felt alot of pressure by the lactation nurse to bf. i felt alot of pressure to stop by my husband, family friends who felt uncomfortable with me feeding baby around them. i ended up quitting eariler then i wanted and felt guilty for it. i would cry everytime baby would latch on no one seemed to understand why it hurt so bad when she would nurse. the problem was actually she was biting instead of sucking which caused the pain.
i dont think anyone should push either aspect on another. we all experience things different. we are different and nothing is ever going to be the same on 2 different ppl.
4Fox we understand how you would feel but why come on this site screaming at those who like to breastfeed like we are the ones causing you so much frustration and anger? Where have we personally told you have to bf? how can you know if we bond with our babies through bf? I had an awesome experience with my 2nd and bf. i am pregnant with my 3rd now and plan on bf.
No matter what we are human we are ppl who try our best no matter what. Seeing things one sided only limits us.
Good luck
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I agree with Verellene. As one of those women who has been told off in restaurants, playrooms, even a ladies' restroom for feeding my son in public, I can understand your frustration but from the other side. I'd like to add that it has always been women with who have complained about me breastfeeding in public, and one or two have spouted a tirade like yours - must confess that in one case it was in Cantonese, so I was just guessing. I can assure you that I was being as discreet as I could. I used to time my days so that I minimised the chance of having to feed outside our home, but that was not always possible. I had an older child who needed to be taken to school, activities etc.
I can understand the hell, I've had mastitis 5 times between 2 children and was tempted to give up many many times. The majority of my friends in HK bottle fed within weeks, mostly because of the lack of support from other people, and the need to live like a hermit in HK. Each of them BF for much longer with the children that they had before moving here.
My sister had a rant one day (again similar to yours) at my mother and I for making her feel like a failure for not BF. When we calmed her down, she admitted that we had never even suggested that she should BF and certainly not said anything negative when she gave up. She realised that yes, the resounding majority of books etc. rave about the advantages and that she felt guilty for not BF, but that nobody but herself was responsible for making her feel bad.
As for drug-free births, again a personal choice. My obstetrician told me that in the london hospital in which I gave birth, 97% of births involved some type of pain relief. I assume that the statistics are similar here (probably higher due to what sems to be a huge % of c-sections), so there cannot be many women out there expecting prizes for doing the whole thing naturally.
Before I had children, I was determined that I would do everything by the book; natural birth, breastfeeding, never allow them to watch TV or eat chocolate, always feed homemade, organic food, never bribe good behaviour out of them etc. Some I suceeded at, other things I failed drastically. Many mothers have triumphed where I've been a disaster. Once your children are more than a few weeks old, you stop beating yourself up and realise that you do the best that you can. It really gets easier!
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
4fox, in reply to your question, I cannot be certain if all of the women who reprimanded my friends for breastfeeding in cafes or restaurants were mothers, but one incident stands out in my mind.
We were in Cafe Deco and each of us had children with us. Most of the people sitting around us were in the same situation. One of our group had a newborn, who arrived asleep in his carseat. He woke up early from his nap and could not be consoled. She started to feed him, in a sling, while wearing a feeding top, so not an inch of skin was visible, even to those of us sitting with her. Then one of the mothers (who was feeding her baby from an Avent bottle at the time)at the next table in a ridiculously loud voice started a rant along the lines of your initial posting; how breastfeeding mothers feel so superior, that they are misguided if they think that their children will fare any better than those who are bottle fed and then started citing examples of how each of her children were more davanced than their breastfed playmates/classmates etc. It was incredible! Then she had the nerve to ask a waiter to complain to my friend about breastfeeding in the restaurant. Despite our protests, she (our friend) finished the feed in the bathroom. No child should have to be fed in the toilet!
My MIL has launched similar attacks on my decision to breastfeed. Apart from saying that I was just trying to be fashionable and that her children did perfectly well on formula etc. (I cannot disagree, they turned out just fine), the killer was when she said that I was only BFing to exclude my husband and other family members from bonding with the children properly! I used to have to disappear into another room whenever I fed the children IN MY OWN HOUSE! Just to rub salt into wounds, whenever my children are ill, she makes a jibe like 'so much for the advantages of breastfeeding'. In fact she has gone so far as to blame my breastfeeding for passing on my respiratory problems to one of them.
So it cuts both ways. You just have to confident that you have made the right choices for your children. If you are happy, your child is more likely to be so too. If you let those who disapprove (there will always be something that someone will disapprove of) get to you, it will rub off on your child. I suggest that you find other new Mum friends or a new baby group (assuming that they are the ones being critical). There's no shortage of bottle feeders in HK. I cannot get a new MIL (without binning my wonderfully supportive husband).
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Cara, re. your previous question. I must confess to full on bribery; 'If you do X I'll give you Y'.....and my even guiltier secret is that I have been known to do it with my 4 year old (who certainly does understand consequences).
As far as all being 'in it together' goes; I had my worst year ever when I was in a 'team' (I use the term very loosely) of all female investment bankers. It was a hotbed of bright, bitchy, competitive women who all saw other women as onstacles to their success and self-esteem. I now treasure every genuinely supportive woman I come across.
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mrsl.....OUCH, your MIL said all that??? harsh!
come on ladies, motherhood is tough enough as it is so whether you choose to bf or bottle, once you have made the decision, stand by it and do not be afraid to tell anyone off for saying otherwise. at the end of the day, you are the mother.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
She's a real joy, Wheelymate! Just imagine how excited I get when she comes to stay for 2 weeks at a time!
I must admit, that with all the writing about breastfeeding - so 'natural', the advantages etc., ther's not enough about how tough it can be to establish. Nobody had prepared me for the afterpains over the first 10 days or so; everytime the baby sucked, it felt like I was in labour again. I thought I was ready 2nd time around and it was worse. The midwife said that it usually does get worse with successive births. Where is this information???? Why do they not warn us???
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cd
19 yrs ago
To Mrsl, My MIL once said 'that all handicapped people should be put down at birth' whilst I sat there cuddling my severely disabled son....
to the original poster, I've only managed to BF one of my kids for more than 3 weeks for various reasons, including the last 2 losing nearly 2 lbs in weight in the first couple of weeks despite feeding constantly, obviously wasn't enough there. There are extremely healthy, bright kids who visit the GP once a year or less. BF great if you want to do it, but you can certainly get the same close bond from bottle feeding, plus the dads get to do their share and have their bonding time.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
OK cd, mine is now officially an angel! I cannot believe she said that to you! Thanks for putting evrything in perspective.
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cd
19 yrs ago
Actually, she's not that bad, just has a habit of not thinking before she speaks, like the time she met us at the airport on a yearly visit and instead of saying hello, just told me I was fat.
I did question her on the disabled comment at the time, and she said 'obviously not James, he's your son", so I told her that everyone of them was somebodys son or daughter. It did take them 4 years before they really accepted him though, so she probably did mean it to a certain degree. And at least with mine its just the occasional foot in the mouth type of remark, yours sounds mean all the time..no offence.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
None taken, I can assure you!
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I really think that the word breast and N$%#s are two words that ought not to be used together.
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cara - call me an idealist, but i think the world would be a different place if women ruled. It's having to conform to a man's world where you must be twice as tough and works twice as hard to be considered half as good that brings out the bitch....
c'mon give us some credit now.
replying to the original poster - i don't think i'm a breastn$%£" perse - but i must admit that i think it's a bit ridiculous to buy powdered milk and mix it and use it to feed your baby. No mammal apart from human beings do such weird things.
That said - i will say that breastfeeding for me has been really a rough ride(my baby is now three months old.) I didn't expect it to be so as i saw my sister and my brother's wife breastfeed their beabies without too much hassle.
If i wasn't so convinced that it's good for the babe and therefore determined to do it - i would have given up a long time ago.
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I agree with jwng about Matilda. When my son was born there, I found it very difficult to breast feed and it was actually one of the midwives who said to me "if you're really finding it difficult, why don't you think about switching to formula, no one here will think you're a bad mother if you don't breastfeed and i wish someone had said this to me when my baby was born".
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I too am disheartened by some of the judegments and criticisms in some of these postings. New mothers are very vulnerable for many reasons and the last thing they need is criticism if for whatever reason they cannot breastfeed.
My own breastfeeding experience was not a pleasant and "bonding" one. I had always intended to fully breastfeed and did not expect the difficulties I was faced with. Having inverted nipples, and a sluggish post emergency c section baby meant that she could or would not attempt feeding and was rapidly losing weight. I expressed 8-10 times daily to get milk flowing and used nipple shields (giving her the expressed milk in bottles) She still didn't gain weight. I had lactation consultants visit, spent days with midwives watching me feed (all giving me different advice), and eventually spent a week at a residential support centre for people with feeding problems (in Oz). My daughter continued to not gain weight and the stress this put on myself and my husband meant we did not enjoy the first months of her life as much as we could. Through this everyone told me to persist with breast feeding as she would be disadvantaged if I did not.
Finally out of frustration and fear for her wellbeing we visited a paediatrician. He gave me the best advice - a happy mother is much more important to a baby than anything else and he could see the toll the stress was taking on me. He told me to supplement with formula - knowing my milk would slowly dry up. Finally she began to gain weight, I began to relax, and was able to enjoy being a mother for the first time.
Despite this I tried BF again with my second but did not persevere for as long when things didn't work again (I made sure he got the colostrum). I enjoyed his first few months much more.
I resent being told that every woman can breast feed. I know breast is best, but please give those ladies who struggle with bf a break - they are already under enough pressure.
Let every woman make the informed decision that is the right one for her situation - without judgement or prejudice. Us Mums should stick together - not compete for Mum of the year with each other!
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4fox,
do be relaxed abt the whole thing. Frankly, I am of the view that you're going to get critism either way. I very much hold the unpopular belief that women being women (I would wholly point the finger at myself first), we ARE the more vindictive sex and we DO enjoy the odd gossip and bad-mouthing of our female peers. I would challenge any female/mummy in this forum who claims otherwise. Whilst I am not going to pop the champagne to celebrate this not-so-nice trait of ours, I reason it is due to our XX chromosomal makeup ie out of our control that we behave like this.
Can't you just ignore it? If it is a friend who works you to this state, dump her and look for real friends. If it is a stranger, why do you care? you are not going to see her/him again. And if you are feeling guilty cos you can't breastfeed, then it is an issue you have to solve within yourself. I breastfed for 9 months only cos my baby was allergic to cow's milk so I have no choice. My sister cried rivers and mountains when she could not breastfeed. She was more dedicated than me and even asked me to hand-pump for her when her own hands cramped (back in the old days when electric was uncommon). I got mad when people told her even the tiniest breasts could produce milk ie implying she didn't try hard enough, how dare they.
Be tough! You are an adult and a mother now ignore petty things like these. And sorry to say this, 4fox, but this really is a trival matter that you shouldn't even waste your precious brain cells on. You will get many, many critisms now that you are a mother eg your baby is not fat enough; you are not putting on enough clothes on your baby, you are not feeding your baby the right foods, you are not sending your child to school early enough ....need I go on? so are you gonna let these things bother you too??
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layla
19 yrs ago
I agree mummybee .. BFing or bottle feeding you are going to be subject to peoples' comments. Since i had my baby I have been quite amazed at the thoughtless things people say and which have had me in tears especially in the vulnerable first weeks - such as 'your baby looks as though she needs 'fattening up'', why haven't you given her any 'real' foods yet ? (she's 5 months), when are you going to give that up (BFing). I agree that the only way to deal with the constant little critiscisms is to toughen up and try to see how petty they are in the grand scheme of things. But it can be quite hard.
On a slightly different note but still on the theme of trying to ignore unsupportive people (colleagues mainly) I was amazed at the number of people who saw me back at work but didn't bother to even say a simple - congratulations ! how's the baby ! some the same ones who didn't mind a few months earlier making comments about huge I was or how uncomfortable I must be !
Having said that, lots of people have been wonderful and made many supportive, complimentary comments so these are the ones I try to remember .. my favourite is ' she looks so happy !' made me feel great.
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maybe we should all share the 10 worst things anyone has said to you about your mothering abilities and the 10 best things. hopefully we can all reflect and stop saying those nasty things (because sometimes we are just not conscious of it) and say more of the good stuff!
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4fox
Sounds like someone has been giving you a hard time. As a mother people will always make comments about your choices as they think they know everything. The way to go is to be a bit stubborn and say to yourself that this is the way I am doing it and that's that. Other people have had their chance, have had their kids - now it's your turn.
I am probably one of those Breastnazi's you dislike so much, but then again I am probably not that extreme as I really do not give 2 hoots about what others are doing, I only really care about my own agenda.
In my experience breast-feeding does not necessarily a good mother make. I know someone who is still breastfeeding her 20-month old and this is really harsh but she is the WORST mother I have ever met. I know plenty of great mums, irrelevant of thier choice of milk.
We Bfeeding Mum's also get flack as well you know. Being pulled up in restaurants, made to feel like we are doing something dirty etc. Lucky for me my husband looks intimidating. Cara's right on this or another thread - let's give each other a break.
I will say one thing though and it's not necessarily aimed at you in particular. I too get pi$$ed off with peoples perception of my choice. E.g. my Dad gave me a terribe time over bfeeding my son saying it wasn't normal etc. as did my friends telling me I was wasting my time. Personally whether you BFD or you don't that's your business only but to say that BMilk is not better for a child is misinformation. If BM is so cr@p why do companies strive so hard to emulate it - why not come up with a different product. Secondly my son had a serious discharge from his eye until he was 6 months. He constantly had green puss oozzing out of one eye running down his cheek. At one point the Doc told me he may have to have an operation on the tear duct at 1 years old. Then the woman at PeKip told me to get my boob and squirt milk in his eye. I reluctantly did this (thinking it was codswallop) and it cleared up the next day - no word of a lie. I doubt any brand of formula could do this!
I was very lucky in being able to BF my son as I enjoyed it, had loads of it and it was good milk. However as I said, I was lucky.
Sorry if I am coming across as judgemental. I've only ever really been at the recieving end of criticism over my choice which really gets my back up as whatever my choice I deserve support too.
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No matter what you do you'll always be critizised by other people anyway. I BF my 2 kids for 4 months, and got a lot on unsupportive comments from family and friends ('still BF at 4 mths, when are u gonna stop ?')... From what I heard from some of my friends who gave formula either by choice from the beginning or because they were not successfull with BF, they also get negative comments... And it carries on anyway, it's not only whether you BF or not, it is about anything you do that is different anyway ('you should potty trained your daughter, she's 2 already, mine was trained at 18 months !'). I had 2 kids within 15 months, I was critizised for not waiting longer (2-3 years like 'everyone else'), I want a 3rd one, why on earth would I want another one when I have a perfect couple girl and boy ?
As soon as you become parent it seems that everyone (MIL, neighbour, stranger in the street) has the right to have and give an opinion on your personal choice ! And we parents easily feel guilty about those comments... Would you feel guilty if someone dare to make comments about your behaviour with your husband ? You would just tell them to mind their own business. For my point of view, my choices iro our kids are as intimate as way of being with my husband.
So just do whatever you feel is good for you, the baby and your family (hubby and other kids), and never mind the others ! Especially if they are total strangers from restaurant, bar, street, shops etc...
However I would like to emphasize that I have BF everywhere in HK (restaurant, public sitting areas, beaches) and I never received (or noticed) unfriendly comments/looks, people would just mostly look away actually ! And I never had to BF in toilets and I would have never accepted that !!!
When you see people clipping their nails in the bus, spitting on the street, I don't see how BF in public places could be shoking !
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4fox, I'm not quite sure from your post if you've tried to breastfeed and for whatever reason are unable to, or if people have simply made you feel guilty for deciding not to breastfeed. Whatever the reason, you should do what YOU want (or are able) to do and not what other people say you should be doing.
I'm one of those mothers who actually 'chose' not to breastfeed and I never allowed anyone to make me feel guilty because I supposedly wasn't giving my baby the best ... In my opinion, I WAS giving my baby the best ... I was happy and content, and so was my baby ... I didn't feel that I had to do something I had no desire whatsoever to do.
I remember a couple of friends at the same time having problems breastfeeding their babies ... or simply not enjoying it ... but they felt pressured into carrying on ... their babies early months were not happy ones, which I found really sad ... Especially when I was able to enjoy mine so much.
No one disputes the fact that 'breast is best' as they say (sorry, but I hate that saying!!), but at the end of the day it's only best if you are happy or able to do it ... What's best for your baby is what's best for YOU, not what's best other mothers.
Do what you know is right for you and enjoy your babies early months/years without worrying about what others will think of you.
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<3 to Cara!!!
Alot of women *most* are that way. It's not the men who made it so hard for mothers to be mothers it was the womens activists who did that back when they all wanted this and that and for us all to be equal. Thing is we arent equal.. men cant deliver babies nor breast feed *naturally*. White men usually have the lowest protection from a government then any race and gender.
I do support strong women but i dont support those who thing we all have to be strong women who are business minded and can spurt like a man.
I enjoy being a mother who bf her babies who enjoys being able to stay home with them. But, in this world that is almost extinct. Ppl ask why? Its because of the womans movements. I believe we should be able to vote and have jobs but its affected the economy of the entire world. Most families need 2 parents to work or they cant survive.
I wouldnt want women nor men to rule the world. I dont think either by themselves are capable of running anything based off gender, race, religon.
We all have to be different and understanding. Open up to others and try to put urself in their shoes, see how others might see, feel, think, comprehend different situations.
This is why men and women are so different and we are meant to have these issues. I personally have a hard time being friends with women. I think women have hurt me personally more then men have. When a woman hurts you it burns for a life time.
One thing about HK tho that i have heard is most women *chinese Hkers* elect to use forumla because they dont want to change their bodies. haha thats what my Hker MIL told me and when i decided to breast feed she didnt like it because she couldnt feed her grandchild. I do understand difficulties but i dont understand everyone slamming eachother and bringing topics up just to argue.
We need to understand we have similarities and we are different in the same thought. Pushing anothers ideals onto someone else is wrong. But it also works both ways. And in many ways 4Fox did the same thing those women did to her by making her feel crappy for not bfing. She got on this site and told us we were wrong for wanting and enjoying it.
So now everyones having a spit contest to try to see whos the best mommy, breast feeding with problems with no problems. I think this is a problem that 4fox doesnt need fixing or support for. She came on here to start an arguement and it seems like it worked in a way.
<3 to all moms no matter if they bf or not. We are all moms no matter where we come from, how we raise our kids, and what we think is best. We are just moms!!!
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