Devastated over smacking

My ex husband decided that he was going to smack our just-turned-four daughter. I am against smacking as how can you teach not to hit/push with hitting and getting violently angry? This was the situation: we were at an evening family celebration this evening. Little one is unwell and tired (getting up early cos of the gloop in her chest and coughing). Anyway, she is at the tail end of it. I could tell the signs that she was going to have a hissy soon - had been great til then - but the night was progressing and it was now about 7:45. I told my mother that we could only stay another five minutes or so as the little one was showing many signs of imminent meltdown. The cake was delayed and my request was ignored. Anyway, some twenty or so minutes later, my little one pushes her 3yo cousin to protect her crayon. My ex, automatically gets up and in his anger (he has NO tollerance for any sort of 'bad' behaviour despite any circumstances), flies into a rage and from two rooms away I hear the slap on her bare bottom. He pulled down her pj's to smack her. Immediately, the outline of his hand had welted on her soft little bottom and she was really, really frightened. I went to her immediately - she was sooo tired, poor little mite, and she wanted me and was reaching her hands out to me. My ex was in a rage and kept pushing me away and I was trying to explain that she was tired (he had heard the conversations) and was merely reacting to exhaustion. She certainly has had naughty episodes but they are well and truly dwindling and basically occur when tired, ill or provoked or a combination of the above. Anyway, I had my entire family say that smacking never hurt anyone and that she needed it and the rest of that rubbish. My ex pushed me so forcibly to the ground and I fell squarely on my bum and NO ONE BATTERED AN EYELID. I am upset on a number of fronts - that my little one had to endure an unneccessary beating and that my family supported the violence directed to both my daughter and me. I am flabbergasted. I am hurt and empty. I feel so alone. What do I tell my little one about what happened. When I cuddled her, she said so lovingly, "I love you mummy" - like I was her saviour. I have bawled, phoned a friend and feel no better. Please help me.

get that man away from your child. smacking the bare bottom of a 4 year old who has been ill? unacceptable.

Oh! You poor thing! I can imagine why you feel so awful! It's so frustrating when you know what is right for your child, when you know that she needs to get to bed and everybody just dismisses your love of routine. I can relate to that, but fortunately not to the rest of it.


I cannot believe that he lost his temper in public to that extent. Although I know that many people approve of physical punishment, I am amazed thta they did not react to your being pushed to the ground! For the poor child to witness that must have just made a bad situation much much worse.


All that I can suggest is that in the cold light of day, when emotions have settled down, that you have as calm a discussion as you can muster with your ex. Explain how you believe that verbal discipline is much more effcetive with your child. How you can never teach her not to hit another child etc., if you use physical punishments on her and moreover if she sees her father act violently towards her mother (albeit in temper and by mistake - giving him the nenefit of the doubt here, not sure he's earned it though). Talk about how you think you've earned some support and credibility given that you know your child best. Many older family members seem to forget that children need their rest and routine and cannot function perfectly without any energy. Assure him that you do not ignore bad behaviour but that there are more effective ways of dealing with it.


In the meantime, you can comfort yourself that your poor child knows that you know how best to look after her and that she can trust you. I'm not sure how involved your ex husband is with your child but he needs to understand that childcare has moved on a lot since the days of intimidating children into doing what you want. You need to get your mother on board too, she needs to get her head around how you are bringing up your child and why it works for her (I know that my family/inlaws think that I often act as if 'I'm the first person in the world to have raised renchild' when I decline their invitations to late night events). Try to get some sleep. Your little girl will get over it because she feels so loved, it will probably take you a lot longer.

there are always two sides to a "situation" and one issue that willbe a problem is the divisions raised between ex-spouses and care of children. The child can be a proxy for previous arguments - and this is certainly the case. What then happens is that two sides of friends support the one or other side and an extended fight happens.


Not saying smacking is good or bad, per se (although I thinking it is OK to smack, but that is not PC these days .... on the other hand I find NAmerican mores wrt child education intolerable, but that is another issue) BUT the real issue is preserving harmony and unity for the child who - perceiving disharmony - will be able to drive a wedge between you like a bull on the rampage.


Get beyond the smacking issue, and back to preserving firm loving boundaries in child education. Both of you should read the Supernanny book. As for the grandparents - in matters of child education, unless one partner is dead, they have no place EXCEPT in supporting the united front of the couple, whether divorced or not. Do otherwise at your (and her) peril.

It sounds like your husband was trying to impress on your family that although he's no longer with you, he's still your daughter's father and that he's not going to tolerate and has the right to discipline her if she misbehaves. I'm sorry that your family stood by and did nothing when you ended up on the floor. They must have been shocked by what happened to you if not your daughter, but perhaps there would have been a big scene if they had interfered and they just wanted to keep the peace? Your daughter knows that you tried to 'rescue' her but I think she might now have a fear of her father. Perhaps you should speak to your family tomorrow and find out what are their true feelings over the incident.

Thanks for all your replies. A night's sleep hasnt helped much and I have inspected the little one's bum and there are three thin lined 'cuts' where the skin broke. That aint a smack - that's a belting. I asked her about why she pushed her cousin just to flesh out the situation a bit more and find out what happened as I was not in the room at the time. The kids were colouring and she said that she wanted to come and look for me but her cousin was in the way so she pushed her. I dont condone the behaviour but everyone should have looked at the snapshot in isolation - three tired under fives, no adult supervision (all talking and I seem to be the only one who keeps an eye on the children to nip in the bud situations like this that were preventable - alas, I wasnt around - busy packing up so we could leave). Anyway, I found everyone's behaviour rather awful. I grew up with domestic violence and I think this is why me ending up on the floor bothered no one. I will always protect my daughter from this. At 38, I am still scarred from the bashings I got (all in the name of discipline - and I was a good kid). I look at the similarities between my father and my ex and it is said that you do marry your father - true in this instance. They are both insecure and loose the plot under pressure. My ex had had a really bad day - no excuse. Adults should be able to control their outbursts to a degree, particularly when in public and be able to control whether they are going to hit another or not. I dont lash out at my little one physically or verbally if it is me that is having the bad day. What an awful situation I find myself in. By the way, my violent father yells out (when I am defending my daughter) "You've ruined this family" (how? I have been the ONLY one who has called him on his behaviour when I was a little girl where he used to bash my mum to a pulp, even when I was 6 and mum was expecting my brother). Everyone else has ignored his woeful ways - but behaviour ignored is behaviour accepted. I am so sorry to dump but I just cant deal with this.

Take her to a pediatrician and document it, immediately before the marks have subsided. In the USA, leaving any mark on a child would be grounds for involvement by child protective services. It may be a painful thing to go through, but if CPS does get involved they could bolster your position very strongly in terms of forcing the issue and education about what is appropriate punishment. At a minimum, photographic and medical documentation will provide evidence for any potential court battles later, or even to bolster your own resolve when you're feeling weak kneed at some point in the future. I'm sorry to bring this up, but the fact is, that photographs (must be properly documented photos) and medical documentation is court-worthy evidence in case you ever need to resort to such thing in a custody or visitation battle. And I believe that, as a mom, your primary duty is to protect your child.


As you experienced yourself as an adult and as a child, it is impossible for a mom to physically protect a child from an abusive spouse, no matter how hard you try. What your daughter learns from seeing you smacked around yourself is that you can be smacked around and eventually she'll come to thing that such is an appropriate way to treat women. She will ingrain it into her own patterns of thinking and behavior about what is "normal" (just as your family seems to have done).


But please be strong and make the break with tradition! As a criminal lawyer (before I was a trailing spouse) I have worked on cases where childrens spleens, duodena, and other internal organs were ruptured by blows from an angry adult. Any unleashing of anger on a child by an adult can be deadly serious, in the literal sense.


Finally, congratulations on making the astounding and very difficult jump from the family pattern. This is a noteworthy and insightful achievement in itself. It shows you already are a strong and intelligent person. The betrayal by your family can feel shocking and emotionally devastating. The sad fact is that you may have to go it alone and be very strong to overcome this pattern. Let me tell you, though: It is OKAY to break off contact with your family if they are unhealthy for you. You have offered them the opportunity to renegotiate limits and have respect for you and your daughter, and they let you down. So, feel free to do whatever it takes to protect yourself. Please, don't have any guilt about "depriving" them of a relationship with their granddaughter etc. What you are doing, if you protect her, is instead giving her an opportunity to grow up healthy and whole and to break ingrained patterns of abuse that tend to be passed from generation to generation. Feel free to send me PM if you ever need a boost.

I echo Meiguoren's comments. Your family is a poisoned well. It may be very difficult but it might be necessary to cut off contact with them - for your safety and that of your child's. You have been physically and emotionally abused for 38 years, they are not going to change - only you can. I hope you can find your way.

You should report the assault on you to the police - domestic violemce is a hot issue at the moment. If he touches you again call 999 immediately (if you're in HK)

Georgie10, you may find some assertiveness training useful. In your situation, I would've removed my baby the minute she started fussing and the cake was delayed, sat in a taxi and taken him home (especially if he was sick). I've been known to say thanks but no thanks to family (or other) celebrations or leave early or just dissappear! LOL.


Assertiveness is not aggressiveness. Its just making sure your reasonable rights are not trampled, while at the sametime respecting others' rights too.


Trouble is if you are the kind of person who doesn't like confrontation, then bullies will make you feel that standing your ground is being "selfish" or not thinking of others, and it may seem easier to not say anything. But in the meantime, resentment is building up inside you and your needs are not being met. If this keeps happening then you will burst or start objecting to every little thing - swinging in the other direction and appearing demanding. Not a happy situation and one of the toughest habits to break.


I really feel for your you and your poor daughter.


Anyone seen the movie "Enough"?

Georgie10, oh you poor thing.


I think you are getting stronger because you're voicing out your opinion now, not to yourself but to everyone on this board. You're finally saying, "It bothers me that you used violence against my daughter and me". You may say that he probably only pushed you in the heat of the moment and didn't know you would fall BUT I think this is no excuse because he should have enough respect for you to not even be pushing you in the first place, even if he disagrees with your actions. He could speak to you aftewards if he disagreed but he should not use any sort of physical force on you. He probably felt he could get away with it (and he did get away with it, unfortunately).


I would sit him right down and tell him that his actions were unacceptable especially in front of your daughter. His lack of respect for you as a woman and as a mother would impact your daughter's view being one. She may feel that she is inferior. Either that or she will resent him for the way he has treated you.


Georgie10, this should be your last straw. Should it ever happen again at a family dinner and you feel that your daughter is tired, then remove her from the situation and say, "Sorry, she's not up for it" and leave. If it's too hard to do because you don't like confrontation, take her outside for a walk and say, "We'll be back. Excuse us".


My inlaws used to force their control over me but when my daughter was born, I had enough and would leave anytime I felt uncomfortable with the situation. Just last month when we were at her place, I was trying to discipline my daughter and she interfered. I got so mad that I took my bag and said, "Sorry, I forgot I've got things to do tonight". My daughter came after me and hubby decided to come as well.


You don't need to be rude to them or anything. Just remove yourself from their control/power. You are an adult now and your daughter will look up to you and you need to show her that everyone deserves respect (both her and you).


By removing yourselves from the situation as politely as you can, you're not being rude but you're still standing up for yourself. It seems to work for me.


I don't know if your family was trying "not to rock the boat" when they saw your ex pushing you on the floor.


What I do know however is that both you and your hubby must stand united on how you want your daughter to be disciplined. So that she does not get mixed messages.


I don't know whether or not it works but if standing united in discipline isn't possible, you could say that if it's in your household, it should be done your way and if it's in his, you'll leave it up to him. So for example, you could set the rule that if its your family gathering, then the discipline should follow your pattern. It is embarrassing for him and you if things blow out of proportion like it did in front of family members.


Good luck, okay, I don't know if what I'm saying is right or not... just what I would do and have done.

I looked through these assessments carefully, and I am disturbed. While child abuse and phyiscal assault is not to be tolerated, I also think the NAmerican response (get the lawyers in etc) is a certain way to destroy relationships and make lawyers rich. It also does nothing to put the relationships of the three of you onto a healthy footing.


Yes, you have an "ex" but there is still a relationship, and it also seems to me that the mechanism of your relationship has been hidden by the obvious trauma. What, for example, have you contributed to the situation? I do not mean to upset you, but there is always another side, and at the moment, only one side is being looked at. When I have dealt with abusive relationships in the past, I have always been amazed at the extent to which all parties contribute to the horrors. Left unexplored, this means you are highly likely to repeat the experience.


So I would suggest to ditch the (solely and exclsuively) confrontational approach, and get comfortable with an experienced person to look at relationships, parenting and the role you play in all of that. Yes, documentation of facts is great, but if you leave it at that and stay with the "what a bad man" approach, you will get not much further and still be open to later problems. Ditch the lawyers first. Get the counselling started.

Hello All. Thank you all so so much for your support, kind words, advice and stories of your own. I so appreciate it. The small one's dad refuses/ed to go to counselling - apparently cos I am always right and it wont help. I have BEGGED him to go, even now, so that we can have a united front. Part of me feels bad cos I wasnt (in his eyes) worth the effort. He consults the pro's for everything, but not his relationship. Allows time for everything, but not his relationship. I have become used it all now -still hurts and suspect it will for a while, but at the end of the day, despite all that has happened, he was never really a friend to me and has rarely respected me. Fool be me. No, not looking for sympathy, although thanks to all of you for really feeling for me. Over his abuse and I am so blessed with my lovely girlfriends (unfailing there) and my xpat mates - you have all made a difference too. I thank God he didnt destroy me totally. I was WELL on the way.

I know what I did in the very similar situation as you found yourself in Georgie I too came from a very violent childhood and spent many months running away to refuges with my mother and siblings.


1. I never let my daughters father near her ever again or myself come to think of it, I moved out of the area and changed our names so we could'nt be found.


2. I asked my family what on earth they were playing at and why after all these years do I feel protected by them?


I do hope that your scars heal and if any need of an empathic ear................goes without saying really

I agree with docboat's approach in this,

My husband used to have no clue how to deal with my sons temper tantrums and would shout really loud to get him to be quiet. Things are a lot better now but I guess that is because he was open to learning a new way to do life.

I'm really sorry it's this way for you and your ex.

try and do everything to protect your daughter from fear, even if it's really hard try to speak well of your ex to her and do try to take her home if she misbehaves or is going to meltdown. I know it seems like avoiding, but you have to consider how shutting him out of her life will negatively impact you all.

Also having a good discipline strategy that you can explain very clearly to all your family members so they understand would help you.

I came from a violent family too.Phiscally by mother,verbally by grandmother(fathers mother).


It had cause a very deep scar in my heart till now.


I understand how you feel.I would do anything to protect my girl if anyone tried to harm her.


Agreed with cara above.NEver let them had a chances to do so.If necessary WAlk out on them.They are not supposed to be in our life.


Good luck.