Posted by
YumMum
18 yrs ago
Dear Moms and dads
The SCMP is looking to find parents with veiws on the rising cost of International school debentures. They are also looking to hear about difficulties faced getting children into international schools/ secondary level education
If you have a veiw please can you post it here in the first instance.
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Totty
18 yrs ago
Decent education should be available to every child in this day and age, whether local or private, but, unfortunately, Hong Kong's elite and companies are willing to pay through the nose for a debenture etc thus beginning to make education out of reach for some..
I can see some expat families are going to have to leave as education will become too expensive for them and beacuse their kids cannot enter into the local schools they will have no alternative to leave.
Shame really as Hong Kong has such a lot to offer.
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Really agree with totty. I'm an expat and really at wits end about what to do when my child finishes Kindergarten. I've just written a thread asking people for options to International schools. I've heard about english medium schools like Saint Pauls Convent or Rosary Hill School, but I want to know whether r these the only low cost english medium schools in HK or are there any more and what is the procedure to apply to these schools. SOMEBODY PLLLLLLLLLLLLEASE HELP ME
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We've already decided that we will probably leave HK before this becomes an issue for us. We could use public schools but having worked with many schools personally over the past few years I would never subject my child to an institution that will prepare them for exams only with no efforts whatsoever towards personal development. If we are unable to use ESF then no choice but to go, International Schools are now only for the elite. As my wife is a local that means uprooting her from her home and family just so we can get a decent education for our child.
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aemom
18 yrs ago
We are off-topic, but hope that's ok under the rules....
We can't afford to send our children to ESF or an international school, never mind paying a debenture, so my son is in primary 1 at a local school (only because Dad can read and write Chinese; otherwise, we'd be back home).
While the teachers are lovely and do their very best and my son loves going to school, he is "learning to read English" by memorizing words, just as he is taught to read Chinese by memorizing characters. Many primary teachers in HK have no teacher training and no idea how to teach English reading. I think we'll leave after primary 3 as I'm worried he'll never learn to read properly.
I teach in a local secondary school and there is no way I would ever send any child I loved to a HK secondary school, not even an elite EMI school.
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The cost of education here is fast becoming beyond the reach of many people, and the cost of debentures being asked by some schools is shocking, however as it is unregulated by govt. and there is a shortage of school places it will continue and very soon the ordinary guy on the street will not be able to afford it, school places that require debentures will only be available to parents whose companies are prepared to pay. The sad thing is there are expats here who have been here for many years, their children born here, and they are having to leave a place they and their children consider home as the cost of education is becoming excessive/unaffordable. The English Schools Foundation who provide a really excellent education for English speaking children always used to be relatively affordable, however their fees have been raised considerably in the last two years a hike each year and apparently there will be a raise in fees yearly from now on, in addition govt. has cut their subvention by huge amounts so the last affordable education provided for English speaking children is also becoming or has become unafordable for many families.
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fel
18 yrs ago
tis is a very interesting topic. we are new in hong kong, and am currently hunting some school for my daughter and realise some schools ask for debenture. Can someone share with me the different between deposit and debenture? Debenture will also be refunded upon the withdrawal of the kid from school?
many thanks
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I have been in HK for 10 yrs + paying taxes and all my dues. I have been fortunate to send my child to an international school close to home.
However, the school has only primary yrs and hence were stuck when she had to move to secondary.
wE PAID ALL THE DEBENTURE, EXORBITANT fees but we were no better off when we had to find a place for our child.
In a modern society where schooling is the right to all children I think HK is appalling.
Our offices do not pay for schooling but still we tried to send our child to a school that would help her adapt and learn. More than half what we earn we pay as school fees and cut out on other luxuries including living in a decent sized apartment. But studying in an international school which hasn't got a through train is a foolish thing to do, a thing I have learnt through experience.
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fel
18 yrs ago
hi sue3871
wow is been a long time since u in HK. may i seek some info fr u with regards to debenture? does debenture work like an investment whereby the value will appreciate/depreciate? do u get back the same value as what u have purchased?
i appreciate yr help.
thanks!
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joey2
18 yrs ago
Beware - debentures for some schools are depreciating - Kellett is an example of this.
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Yes that is the case Joey2 and it even begins to depreciate as soon as you have purchased it even though your child has not actually got a place and is still on the waiting list.
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But I thought you might make some money if the price goes up. How did the guy sell the CIS debenture for $3M as reported on SCMP last Sunday then?
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woody, you are so right about the fact that local families with high incomes and who are trying to avoid the local systems are the ones driving the increase in demand of spaces in the int'l schools. Then again in the HK community, there's the "face" issue. It is more "prestigious" to send a kid to an "international" school.
If only the government could do something to raise the standards of the local systems, open up the systems to meet the int'l needs, restrict the rules and requirements imposed on foreigners' who want to attend these schools, then perhaps, there would not be long waiting lists and ridiculous debenture fees that we all hear too much about. I,m sure many expats would choose to send their kids to local schools for the cultural and language experiences.
I know from an Australian family in Singapore that Singaporeans who want to attend international schools are required to obtain approvals from the local government. They also need to explain why the int'l systems are their choices. This may seem very authoritarian, but my friends think that it works to a certain extend. Most of the int'l schools there do not require debentures and the spaces are not too difficult to obtain. They have chosen to send their two daughters to a famous local primary school because they want them to learn chinese seriously without paying expensive tuition fees at the int'l schools. They also said that the local school has reserved a certain percentage of spaces to foreigners only.
Now, HK government should listen here.
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Woody, thank you very much for your account of the local system, you have explained it all so clearly and it is very useful to have the insight of non chinese speakers views of the local system. Hong Kong has so much going for it, however it is seriously failing its children and really there is no excuse for it every child deserves a good education. Arthur is not the right man to do the job and has been failing for many years can someone explain to me and especially after his latest debarcle why he is still in the position? it is because his family have money?
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aemom
18 yrs ago
The RTHK show "The Pulse" tonight (22/06/07) had an episode on school debentures which should be available at:
http://www.rthk.org.hk/rthk/tv/thepulse/20070622.html
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Woody,
An interesting perspective and one I agree with 90%. Why 90%? Well because you have also fallen into the trap of blinkered thinking, the same trap you are actually leveling at local schools.
You state, quite rightly, that the local system has some fantastic resources at it's disposal but then it all goes pear shaped when you say these are just NET teachers and locals don't want to learn. That is not quite the case!
As mentioned elsewhere I have been working with local schools all over HK for a few years now. I see some great local talent who have some great ideas and are hugely motivated individuals who end up trodden down by the schools they work for. Usually they end up disillusioned and leave the profession after a few years. What a waste and this needs to be addressed. On the flip side I've seen many NETs who should not be in our school system because they are useless.
So a great write up but remember the talent in schools is not just the NET teachers, and in some cases they are responsible for the dragging down of teaching standards!
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Evil Deeds, When you say the NET teachers drag down the teaching standards, that's a vague statement. For some people, bringing down the standards would mean the teachers don't mark in red ink or give enough tests. For other people, that would mean that the teachers don't teach to the various learning styles, meaning visual, auditory, kinestetic and tactile. For others it would mean not teaching group work or critical thinking. Please explain what you mean. THank you.
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Regarding debentures...I think it's great to keep the debentures for international schools as high as they are ONLY IF the Hong Kong government wants to ensure that foreigners will not choose to move to Hong Kong or that those who are here who can't afford to send their children to international schools. Thus, you will reduce the number of foreign people in Hong Kong. Maybe this is the plan? One wonders because I know of international schools who request government assistance in getting a larger site or who need help with funding and they must work extremely hard to get it. The government should understand that in order to keep foreigners here, they must have international schools, which are similar in their philosophies, teaching styles and expectations to what we'd have in our own countries. If Woody is correct, most of us foreigners would rather homeschool our children or would feel we needed to leave Hong Kong before we would subject our children to such a backward style of education. We don't like the competitive nature of it, nor do we like that the children are all taught as if they were drones. There needs to be creativity, room for varied levels of ability and we don't want the teachers to waste their time doing so much marking. Rather, the teachers should teach the children to self-correct. My daughter is 10 and at an international school. If I ask her if she wants help with her homework, she says no because she needs to learn from her mistakes and her teacher needs to see where she needs to improve, so my help is not needed.
My son is 6 and he needs a bit of a push to sit down and get going, but I am not teaching him new ideas, just reinforcing them.
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PS...I have friends who have children in ESF schools. Some are happy;some are not. There are 30 children in a class. This is a huge class by American and Canadian standards and you don't have to pay for schools there, so coming here, paying a debenture then paying school fees cuts one's salary significantly.
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Please check out this site about why some NET teachers are leaving. It's not only the debenture issue....
http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/practical/threads/103916.asp
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