Posted by
mingg03
18 yrs ago
I have been married to a married foreigner for about 3 years now, we have a boy and girl. A year ago his wife found out and reported him to his consulate being that he married first in USA. Apparently she never informed the Chinese embassy. What would happen if she did?? Although my hubby spends most of the time in USA, I am always terribly worried that she went to the chinese embassy with her marriage certificate. What would happen to me and my kids? I was not married before but I knew he was married. Things are good now. Can anyone help?
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Oh no, she is back again. Both of you go to jail for bigamy. That is the most likely consequence. If you have not registered a marriage with him, you can stop living with him and stop calling him husband. That will safe you from going to jail.
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I'm glad you are only a make believe lawyer, Douglas. ;)
Bigamy is a crime committed ONLY by the party who has the existing non-terminated marriage prior to entering into a new marriage. As long as the wife was legally able to marry, the fact that the husband was not does not, in any way, shape or form, allow charging the wife for bigamy -- ever.
Now, bigamy in the U.S. is often not a felony, but even as a felony the statute of limitations is generally quite short for this particular offense. Accordingly, it is highly unlikely he can be charged with bigamy in the U.S. However, what is far more serious is the document fraud that your husband committed when he obtained the sworn statement before the US consulate in China stating he was single and able to marry. That is a felony and has a long statute of limitations. Embassy policy is to forward all evidences of crimes such as these to the FBI and has likely already done so. It may take a while for them to get around to things, but he can expect a visit at some point in time.
Bigamy is also a crime in China. However, the US consulate will not bring this matter to the attention of the Chinese authorities. If the person's spouse does, though, that could cause problems for your husband should he return to China. It would also likely cause the marriage authorities in China to cancel your original marriage registration since subsequent marriages when one is already legally married are null and void.
The only way you could be legally married to this guy is if he first gets a legal termination of his first marriage and then marries you again in a new ceremony.
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gdbill. She is in China. Don't talk about US law. Since you don't understand Chinese law, I will not quote you all the legal stuffs. You wouldn't understand anyway. I will just lead you to a general website:
http://www.gov.cn/banshi/2005-06/13/content_5983.htm
Of course, since you don't read Chinese, you should get a local to interpret for you.
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I read Chinese. Probably better than you do. Let me dumb this down for you: In the US, in China or on the Moon, she can never be guilty of bigamy unless she committs the crime. The crime of bigamy in China requires an overt act the type of which the perpetrator is prohibited to do.
Whether she continues to cohabit with him or call him her husband is irrelevant. Unless she is the one who married while a prior lawful marriage existed, it is totally impossible she be tried for the crime of bigamy under Chinese law.
It's comforting to know that your grasp of Chinese law is even worse than your grasp of US law. ;)
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Again, it shows you don't read Chinese. Take a look at the following link again:
http://www.gov.cn/banshi/2005-06/13/content_5983.htm
Ops, why I am asking you to do that. You don't read Chinese. Anyway, I will copy and paste the relevant part for those who read Chinese.
根据《中华人民共和国刑法》第258条的规定,有配偶而重婚的,或者明知他人有配偶而与之结婚的，处2年以下有期徒刑或者拘役。
I guess you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "明知他人有配偶而与之结婚的" which I will forgive you. It means marry someone knowing he or she is married. 处2年以下有期徒刑 means sentence to bellow 2 years of jail.
Now, everyone knows you don't read Chinese or you simply see them as nice pictures, don't understand the meaning. So, stop pretending. Please ask a local to explain to you.
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gdBill, I thought you are an expert in family and immigration law. What happens? I guess sometimes, the law here is somewhat funny. I agree with you that from the point of the rule of law, punishing the second wife or husband is not right. But, this is China.
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Douglas, in addition to a tutor in English, you need one in Chinese. With your legal skills bordering on laughable, it's clear you don't have the economic resources for either the English tutor or Chinese one. Shall we take up a donation to help you?
The phrase you have described is talking about the bigamist marrying someone when the bigamist knows he is legally married already. It is not talking about the person the bigamist is marrying.
Also, you are using your cartoonish sense of reality again even implying that the original poster knew her husband was committing bigamy when he married her. She wrote, "I was not married before but I knew he was married." The use of "before" in the first clause and the use of the verb to be in the past tense in the second clause indicate a possible meaning of "married before, but not still."
Obviously you haven't mastered the finer skills of understanding either US law or Chinese law, so lacking the ability for precise reading comprehension is not surprising.
Let me dumb it down: Under current Chinese law, the only person who commits the crime of bigamy is the person who marries yet is already legally married. The second supposed wife may be involved in adultry, but adultry has been de-criminalized in the latest revision to the marriage laws.
The original poster has zero chance of going to jail because of what her husband did unless we count the chances your overactive and highly inaccurate imagination give her. Laughable, Douglas. Totally laughable. You do have malpractice insurance for your fantasy role of being a lawyer, right?
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My quote is very clear on the point. For those the benefit for those who does not read Chinese, I will translate the sentence I have quoted from the government website (www.gov.cn).
根据《中华人民共和国刑法》第258条的规定,有配偶而重婚的,或者明知他人有配偶而与之结婚的，处2年以下有期徒刑或者拘役。
According to section 258 of the Criminal Law of PRC, anyone with an existing marriage 有配偶 remarried 重婚 OR 或者 anyone married someone 与之结婚 knowing him or her is married 明知他人有配偶 can be sentence to jail for less than 2 years.
If you don't understand the legal concept of OR 或者, I will explain. The word OR is different from the word AND 并且. When there are two of more conditions and the word in between the conditions is OR, it means ONLY one of the conditions is required. When the word in between the conditions is AND, it means that all the conditions is required. Very basic legal concept and very plain language.
Don't need to get defensive, gdbill. If you are wrong, throwing personal attacks will not make you right. If you still think you are right, quote me your proof. I have quote mine. Everyone who read Chinese understand the meaning of what I quote except you. Ops, me again. You don't read Chinese, my apology. My fault, I did not translate the sentence for you earlier, my fault, my fault.
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There's an opening in the primary school in my building. Perhaps they can help you bring your Chinese skills up to speed. ;)
They can also help you with your English skills. Or do you claim ESP helped you come up with the facts that the original poster knew her husband was a bigamist when she married him? ;)
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I read both English and Chinese and the quote that douglaskoh has come up with states clearly that if someone married another person knowing full well that he/she is already married, a crime is committed by that person. The issue is proving that whether he/she knew that.
Can we stay focused on the original poster's questions instead of throwing insults at each other.
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turtle1, you are right. It is just gdbill kept insisting that there is zero chance someone who has not married before can go to jail for marrying a bigamist. Thank goodness, finally, he got someone to translate for him and realized that he responded too quickly. Now, he changed his stand to insist that the original poster never knew her husband was a bigamist when she married him, and again, accusing me for misinterpreting the facts.
Sorry. I don't understand the meaning of the sentence "I was not married before but I knew he was married." I guess gdbill must be right. I should take that sentence to mean the original poster never knew her husband was a bigamist when she married him.
Anyway, turtle1, let assume gdbill's interpretation on the sentence in the original post is right. I am very happy to discuss further. What will happen if she did not know her husband was a bigamist when she married him? I will like to throw in more issues. What should she do after she knows her husband was a bigamist (I guess I don't have to prove knowledge again) during the course of marriage? If she continues to consume the marriage after she knew about her husband being a bigamist, is she committing the same crime? The answer is obvious, marriage is not just a single act of registration. It is a process. During the process, she cannot be guilty when she does not have the knowledge. However, once she has the knowledge, she should stop the process, ie, stop consuming the marriage. That is what exactly I am saying in my first reply. Unfortunately, gdbill tried to give her a wrong sense of comfort that there is zero chance she can go to jail. Hence, I have to correct that. Whether she could be sent to prison depends very much on what she is going to do. turtle1, I am sorry that I have caused you to read through such lengthy discussion. I am sure you would understand what I said.
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Bigamy in China is a crime of commission not of ommission and even the law that you quote clearly defines marriage as an act, not as a state of being. In addition, Chinese law defines the marriage formed by a bigamist as void, and not as Douglas would like us to believe, voidable.
Again, Douglas, to dumb it down: She is not, in fact, married irrespective of the marriage license she was issued. Since she is not legally married, how can you suppose that she can even continue in the marriage process? The answer is, she cannot. Douglas, which ever correspondence law school you attended is likely very ashamed of you.
Whether or not she continue to have a relationship with her current partner is something the criminal code will not and cannot address. Adultry is no longer a crime in China. Continuing a relationship with her partner may or may not be immoral, but as a criminal matter there can not possibly be any sanction.
The original poster may have problems, but it is impossible for her to go to jail over them from what information she has given. That Douglas hopes to enforce his own warped sense of morals on unsuspecting and naive individuals is unfortunate.
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>states clearly that if someone married another
>person knowing full well that he/she is already
>married, a crime is committed by that person.
No, it does not. It states that if person A married person B and person A is already married then person A commits bigamy.
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May be both of you can take up this case and bring it in front of a judge, one as a public prosecutor and the other as defense. Good business prospect if you are right...All we need is a judge now...
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what is your current residence and citizenship?
Weir & Associates
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Tel : 2526-1767
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email : weirlaw@hongkonglaw.com
www.HongKongLaw.com/weirlaw
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Thank you for the information. I just wanted an idea of what could happen. It's 3 years since he was reported, I AM STILL MARRIED as per CANTON. The fact that I knew way in advance that my HUSBAND was married can not be proven. I have now 2 kids, one of which he has registered in his embassy because it is his. He happens to be married and live mostly in USA but is not American. I am doing fine, we opened a business and things are good. He is back in USA but he says his marriage is over. He tells me it is just for his son. His wife obviously knows (got him is so much trouble with his country!!!)so I believe they do deal with each other just for the kid. I just hope she continues the way she is so that I do not get in trouble. Anyway, I relocated to Shenzhen since the problem and nobody including MY FAMILY knows anything about this.
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Since he is back in USA, you are safe for the moment.
gdbill is now saying no one can commit bigamy because the second marriage is also void. Of course, the second marriage (when the first marriage is still on) is always void but in crime of bigamy, this is not a defence.
To stay out of problem, you have to make sure he ends the first marriage before living with him in China again.
I must admit gdbill is a good family and immigration lawyer. However, in this round, he cannot stomach being proven wrong by a non-family law expert, and you can see the main part of his thread is personal abuse and insult, trying to divert attention from his own mistake. He did not quote any proof at all. I will forgive him for all the insults since I am the one stepping on his weaknesses in the first place.
If you really want to know who is right and who is wrong, you can call 民政局. There is really no point arguing forever.
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Nice try, Douglas, but your claims are not supported by PRC law. Whether the woman's partner is in the US or China, it is impossible for her to be tried for bigamy although your personal morals would like us to believe so.
If her partner returns to China and she cohabits with him, the worst she can be accused of is adultry -- already decriminalized in China. Even under your flawed logic that she could be considered a bigamist simply knowing her partner is already married, you overlook that the fact is that she is not married. Any marriage, according to PRC law, that is a by-product of a bigamist relationship is invalid "ab initio." This means that the marriage never occured since it was void from the beginning. Legally speaking, the only relationship they can have is adulterous, though she would be considered a "victim." Since there is no marriage, there is no community property or marital assets and, as "victim" she would likely be entitled to 100% of any assets obtained during the relationship.
This is Chinese law, Douglas, and whatever your religious beliefs are they have no play in the scenario.
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TC
18 yrs ago
This is all a bit sad.
To 'douglaskoh' & 'gdbill':
Why don't you just agree to disagree and let it go? Personal attacks are not really warranted, and that's what it has degenerated into. I'm surprised Ed hasn't stepped in already.
To 'mingg03':
I suggest (a) you take both sets of advice on face value, and (b) make personal contact with a lawyer who specialises in both family law and the laws of the PRC. I also suggest that you edit your last post. Why? Because you said "The fact that I knew way in advance...cannot be proven." If someone gets hold of that open admnission I think it could constitute proof enough.
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http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/relationships/threads/106953.asp
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When I filed for divorce after catching her cheating, a search discovered my "wife" was not divorced when she married me... the hidden 2nd divorce decree tipped me off... she married me with a fake one.
In my state (NC) it is a felony. The judge didn't care and refused to order her arrest. Had it been the other way around...... well, you know where I'd be.
Anyway, our state laws specifically prevented her from getting anything as she was the bigamist. In spite of that, I still had to fight in court for 3 years and US$35k to defend and keep my property. Her attorney kept finding ways to ask the court and we kept using the same law.
I sold everything and moved to Asia.
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