Posted by
hkjazz
19 yrs ago
Hi, my husband has just been offered a job in HK (in the education field) and has been offered a salary of HK$50,000 including a very meagre living allowance. We have a baby and a 4 yr old who should be starting kinder next year. We already know that we don't want to live on HK Island, and are probably looking at living in the Gold Coast or on Lantau Island which is much cheaper. We live quite happily on less in Australia but can we realistically live on that salary in HK? I'm a qualified teacher so after we get settled I'll probably supplement our income with some part time work. Can anyone give me some advice as we don't want to move with two small children only to have to move home after a few months. Thanks!!
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sebwu
19 yrs ago
It depends how well you and your children can adapt to comparatively small apartments and what kind of kindergartens and schools you'd like to send your children to. Many Hong Kong families live on HK$10,000 or less per month.
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crj
19 yrs ago
If you live on Lantau in one of the villages, some expat parents save money and send their kids to the local village schools - they are great for kindy and primary and have the added benefit of learning Cantonese.
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sebwu
19 yrs ago
Saikunga, but expats have the option of sending their children to local schools too. I know several who did and the kids turned out just fine.
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TAXES
An amazing 70% are not taxable in HK, because they do not earn enough money !!! So you should be fine with 50,000
http://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/tax/ind_tra.htm#item03
Net Chargeable Income Rate Tax
$ $
On the First 35,000 2% 700
On the Next 35,000 7% 2,450 70,000 3,150
On the Next 35,000 12% 4,200 105,000 7,350
Remainder 17%
CLOTHES, FOOD
very very cheap to the most expensive, you can make your pick and be reasonable
MEDICAL COST
Apply for your HK ID cart as soon as you arrive (Go to Immigration Tower in Wan Chai), once you get it, public healthcare is close to free, even if you stay in hospital (you only pay 100$/ day, including stay, medicine, doctors fees)
TRANSPORTATION
Check how much is it from where you live to where you work (where will husband work) : you have to add up ferry, minibus, MTR, bus....
EDUCATION :
If you are OK with sending kids to local school (where they can learn cantonese) it's cost saving.
If you want to send them to private schools, be there local private or international, be prepared to pay a LOT of money.... over 7,500 EUROS for French school (teenagers) for example + private school often ask you to give them advances which are fully reimbursable when your kids finishes their scholarity. You have here French, Canadian & American school which are international + good reputation.
Or plenty of local private school costing much less (usually run by religious congregations).
Personnaly, i would take a chance with local state school until my kid is 6 yo (or whatever age they start "real" school in Australia). They will learn much more cantonese than international school and you already speak to them in English at home, don't you ?
The major point is education, which i am not very knowledgeable about. Pls. ask a very specific question about it in another thread.
HELPERS:
A maid costs nothing, and sometime do not require separate room but sleep on a matress in the kid's room.
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I personnally don't have a lady at home, though most of the people around me have.
I just pass on the information and am not making judgements....
Concerning insurrance for Maid, colleague informs me state insurrance for helpers is aroung 600 HKD / year (which is not nothing, but affordable on 50 K$/month)and salary is between 3 a 4 K + food.
Not talking about slave in your home either, just passing on the information. It's not because you have a helper at home that you have to be an abusive person (would not be my case if i had one). Just talking about what i see aroung me.... sometime you just adjust: in France, maid not having own private room with independant access+ own private bathroom & sanitary is against the law... not here.... In france i had 5 weeks holidays + 1 day off per month on top of all Sat & Sunday & public holidays. Here I don't... am I a slave ? i don't think so....
Just try not to be judgemental Nuts& Bolts.... think about useful comments hk jazz can actually use, maybe ????
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You are right Island Dweller.
A friend i have, who has 3 kids and 2 helpers tells that she actually saves money as they eat home/ eat lunchbox (for a few dollars per head instead of 25-100/head eating out)and no need to pay for a babysitter + she can work, sometime go out with husband + there is someone home (no worries about burglaries)
An extra cost is you have to pay a yearly ticket for your helper to go back home to their country of origin every year.
That's what many middle class not earning as much as 50 K do here: leaving in New territories for bigger & cheaper flats & less pollution, comuting (expensive) to work everyday & having a lady takeing care of the house.
Anyway, it's your choice...
An interesting thing for HKjazz is to consider teaching in the school her kids eventually enroll. Maybe you pay less fees if you teach english in the private school your kids attend ?
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My family survived in HK on a teachers $40,000 salary for 6 months before my wife got a job. 6 year old daughter, 2 months old baby. 6 year old went to the same school (50% discount). We were fortunate to have saved enough money in AUS to furnish our 750square apartment in KowloonTong. No helper, as wife was at home anyway. Supply work started coming in (wife also teacher)and we got a baby sitter from an agency. Eventually my wife got enough supply work to pay for a live in helper - she is fantastic and couldn't live without her. Eventually wife got a fulltime job and we now survive on $80000 a month, live in SaiKung and go on holiday.....easily.
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Thanks, this is giving me a lot to think about. As a family we don't really go out much even here in Australia, so eating out at restaurants etc wouldn't really be an issue. Much easier to stay at home with the little ones. I've applied for my 4 yr old to go to the Autralian International School....no news yet. I know education is super expensive but my daughter has had some learning difficulties so I'd rather she didn't go in the public system just yet. Even if I just earn enough for her school fees with supply teaching it sounds like it would help. My husband will be working in Kowloon, so it sounds pretty central for commuting. Employer is paying for meidcal insurance...is it worth it? Would the public healthcare be enough?
I'm really appreciating all the advice! Happy for as much as I can get!
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I suggest you think carefully about the Aussie International unless that is the education position your husband has. The Aussie international operates on the Australian school year, with long summer holidays at Christmas. Virtually all other education places work the northern hemisphere school year - school goes back after the summer in the next 2 weeks actually. Do you want your daughter at school in June and July while your husband (and possibly you if you are planning to teach) are on holidays? Then you daughter will be on summer break in December / January when you and your husband won't have very long off (just a week or two at Christmas and another week or so at Chinese New year). So unless you're going to be working at Aussie International yourselves I'd suggest trying to avoid this dilemma.
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sebwu - I am fascinated about expat kids going to a local school. You mean they were educated in Chinese?
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My friends with Chinese (Taîwan) parents in France were educated in French state school, though their parents hardly speak French, even after spending over 20 years there and talk taiwanese to their kids.
So, i'd probably do the same here, i guess, as long as the education system is compatible. However i would certainly ask for more information if my kid had learning disabilities.... other kids must have a similar issue here...
Sebwu, i'm also very curious to know.
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sebwu
19 yrs ago
chinacrisis, yes, but these kids were either born in Hong Kong or came here when they were very young (below 4), and also went to local kindergartens. The main problem the parents I know faced was that they were unable to help when it came to reading and writing Chinese. But local tutors are inexpensive and can help, if the children experience difficulties in school.
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vw
19 yrs ago
The A$ is strong at the moment (who knows for how long but it seems it is here for a while). You may want to consider this if you will have mortgage or financial ties back home that you need to service. By the time you take rent, a helper (if your wife wants the freedom to work supply and if you are on Lantau and will need to consider the comuting time), food and all the little things that quickly ad up.
Once children and education are in the picture, things can become tricky unless you have an income to support it. Unfortunately, you will always have people defending there decision to put children in a local school, but really, does anyone have any stats on these kids once they are at secondary or university level. It is hard enough in an international school with a high percentage of locals, to get a decent English education. I can not even imagine what a local school would be like for a child.
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Yeah I realized the AISHK has different holidays. But for now I thought I might just try to get her in and then once I'm in HK I'll have the time to look into other schools. I'm thinking too that when they're little it wouldn't be such a big deal to take them out of school for a few weeks for holidays. The problem being if we are working when she's on holdays.
We do have expenses here in Australia but renting our house out should pretty much cover our mortgage which is also another form of income I suppose. I'm hoping that after we get to HK (if we go) that the Aussie dollar will start to drop. It's started sliding a little and is due for a downward turn.
So, I've heard that getting kids into International school is a real nightmare and that regardless of costs the waiting lists are really long. How true is this and how readily could I get my daughter into another school if it wasn't AISHK? Does anyone know?
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I would also caution you on coming here, with regard to an issue not yet raised, that of air quality, you have young children and even on Lantau depending on where you settle the air quality is at best not very good. Given that you have somewhat transportable skills I would urge you to consider elsewhere, especially as you can see from above there are already a number of significant issues to overcome regarding your childrens education and potential life style adjustments.
On the upside living in Hong Kong does allow for long week end trips to places that would be major holiday breaks from OZ and living here your children will have some benefits from being exposed to and learning to tolerate and even embrace aspects of other cultures.
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PM I don't understand your "poor white trash" comment. Are you saying that a salary of $50,000 is considered poor white trash by local Chinese or by other expats. Though I could really care less what others think, their problem and their issues not mine.
As for other issues my husband and I have lived in Tokyo before so we are very used to living in matchbox size accomodation and the bureacracy couldn't be too much worse than that of Japan. A hundred people involved in signing one form that takes weeks instead of minutes. The air quality does concern me but that is why I won't live on HK Island and want to live out near the Gold Coast. Tokyo had some pretty bad days too but I'm sure HK is worse.
We're pretty much up for the adventure but just want to make sure we can physically survive on that income which it seems we can but better if I work too.
We're well aware that it will take months to settle and that it won't be the laid back beach lifestyle we have here in Oz.
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cd
19 yrs ago
To hkjazz,
you could live on $50,000 a month but it will be very tight once you start paying school fees. ESF primary is $5,700 a month. nearest one to Kowloon Tong is Beacon Hill. If your daughter is 4 you should put her name down in Sep for the start of the next academic year. Kowloon tong is a good place to live.
Or look at clearwater Bay, Sai kung, or even Tsueng kwan o. Your husband could be in Kowloon tong in 15 minutes on the MTR from Hang Hau.
Hang Hau area is a bit built up, but much cheaper flats and good public facilites like, parks and swimming pool, and not far to the beach at Clearwater Bay. Also Clearwater Bay primary school is nice.
You could get a 700sf 3 bedroomed place in Sai Kung for around $7k a month, worth the extra commute for a much nicer place to live. Good shopping, nice restaurants, lovely village atmosphere.
If you do start working you will probably have to have a helper, you need to budget around $5k a month, with wages, food allowance, levy, insurance etc. And despite an earlier post you do not have to pay for a ticket home every year, but a ticket to HK at the beginning of the 2 year contract, and a ticket home at the end. If they go back on holiday in between the ticket is down to them. Many people do pay it but you do not have to.
My household shopping bill is around $9-10k a month for a family of 7, you could probably get yours in at about $3-4k.
Electricity would be about $1k a month on a small place. Telephones are cheap. Bottled gas is $230 for a large bottle. Would probably last a family your size about 3-4 weeks, longer in the summer.
After school activites are pretty expensive, around $1800 a term for things like ballet and football.
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The Gold Coast is nice to live............ clean, lots of expats, activities for children,,, etc.
The bus to Central is 45 minutes, and the mini bus is an hour to Kowloon. My friends were teaching in Kowoon and took the mini bus from GC
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gwern
19 yrs ago
If you plan on living in Lantau you will find the travelling to the Aus International school quite a long trip daily. On paper living on Lantau sounds idyllic. I know a lot of people who love it but it can be a trek. if your children were not of chool age and only your husband was travelling it would be great. If you want to do occasional suply work you'll find you'll have a long day. Although you can keep a car on Lantau you can't just drive on and off Lantau anytime you like. I personally love being in the city for the convenience of it all. I know it doesn't suit everyone especially when you have small kids. Sai Kung/ Clear water Bay would be much more accessible.
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b-
19 yrs ago
hkjazz,
off topic, but a savings on moving here nonetheless
we're leaving hk after 10+years ... if you're interested in some 2nd hand furniture let me know (private message). we've got table, beds, desk, and lots of toys
also, if dh is working in kowloon, also consider living in the New Territories. Could get a floor in a village house starting should be around 6-7K ---depending on location (tai wai, tai po,tai wo). i know lots of teachers who live even further out (like in Kam Tin or Pat Heung) and have quite a big village house (3 floors & garden), pay maybe HK$15K ---but they also drive a car which is another expense
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Thanks PM for clarifying that. Yeah, wouldn't it be nice to have a $50,000 rent allowance...ha, I can keep on dreaming I suppose.
I know HK is expensive but in reality my husband could only dream of getting the same salary for teaching in Oz. That's why we've decided to have a change.
Does anyone know which is more expensive lifestyle wise, Tokyo or Hong Kong? Because I know from years of living in Tokyo that a HK$50,000 salary would suffice. Not make us rich but suffice all the same. I guess the general gist I'm getting is that HK will be the same.
What would a 3 bedroom in Kowloon Tong cost....I'm guessing too much!
Clearwater Bay and Sai Kung sound nice if we could afford it. However I'd really like to live somewhere where there are quite a few expat children so my little ones can have friends nearby. Would I get this in these locations?
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Hi, we are in a similar situation and it is entirely do-able. Think similar proportions to home - rent/mortgage approx 30% of income. that is your biggest cost, the rest you can choose to spend as little or as much as you want. the health system is slow and lots of people complain, but costs nothing more than a little patience and the quality is high. public transport is second-to-none, but we live in sai kung and have bought a cheap little car that gets us from A to B. we have a helper and enjoy more nights out than we ever did at home, and can have one or two holidays per year. you'll be fine.
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cd
19 yrs ago
There is a big expat community in SAi Kung and Clearwater Bay, especially Europeans and Australians.
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If you can get away with $50,000 in Tokyo, you can get away with it in Hong Kong. However, a large part of that is because food expenses can be minimized in HK and not in Tokyo. The question is if you can live that lifestyle a $50,000 salary affords (or in this case, not afford). I understand your husband might not make the same amount of money in Aus as he does in HK, but if you readjust for living costs + lifestyle, $50,000 may not be worth it at all.
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ltxhk
19 yrs ago
If your child has some learning concerns, you should really consider ESF schools. Schools available in most of your regions. Cost is $57,000 per school year, or $5700 for 10 months. P1 starts at 5 years, and if you apply in this Sept for next year you should receive an allocation. You need to start in P1, or it will be very difficult to enter. For one year, your daughter could attend a local kindy for about $2,000 per month, and learn Cantonese. Kowloon Tong is quite centrally located, so you really have many locations to choose from that are popular with expats.... Clearwater Bay, Saikung, Taipo, Kowloon Tong, Gold Coast (probably the furthest) etc.
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Mister D - I thought the poster was asking more about whether she would enjoy a certain quality of life on HKD50K as opposed to whether she could feed her family. Her choice is whether she should uproot her family based on the lifestyle she could afford here.
I could live in 400 sq ft in Mongkok with my extended family, eat at the local hole in the wall, send my child to a local school - would I choose to do that? Absolutely not as I have other options, irrespective of whether I am in the top 17%, 8% or whatever!
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Agree with ltxhk re- ESF schools.
If you are worried about possible problems Bradbury School on HKI and Beaconhill School in Kowloon Tong have excellent Learning Support sections and Peak School will have one in place this term.
The schools are very mutli-cultural and welcoming and I know Bradbury has a lot of Aussie teachers so there shouldn't be a language problem!
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I think the answer is that yes you can live here on $50K a month, but with 2 kids you won't be living the classic expat lifestyle that most people on this thread probably do.
But then with 2 kids you probably already know how to sensibly budget.
It comes down to lifestyle and I hate to say it being a Kiwi, but Australia gives you a great one.
I am single and have no kids and would make the decision based solely on how much I could save by living here so I can one day move back home to that better lifestyle. I can save much more living here than in my native NZ.
If you can't save as much money as you do in Australia then you are best to stay in Australia where the lifestyle is definitely superior for your 2 kids as I can't see any benefit.
But if you are after an adventure, by all means, you will find one here!!
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Come, you will have a great quality of life and be able to give your kids some amazing experiences. You will pick up relief work no problems.
What sort of teacher are you? Tutoring jobs can be had from $400/h up depending on your field
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ness
19 yrs ago
I have just left HK for Singapore but worked for four years supply for ESF schools. You will pick up work with them no problems, and if you dedicate yourself to the one school they will most likely book you in advance for much of the year - once they know you are always going to say yes and you get your foot in the door they are delighted to have someone reliable and well known to the staff. Teachers get time off for planning and courses and if you are available consistently can even get maternity covers and large blocks. I worked 120/180 days last school year at my kids school (so we all went and left together :) ) and the daily rate is just shy of 1,500 HK dollars so it makes very handy pin money. If you work all 20 odd school days in a month you have 30,000 extra. Of course no pay for sick or school hols. I could have worked more days but chose to go on school excursions and be class mum etc. You won't pay any tax until you have earned over abut $100,000. The really big advantage was that I was at school watching their assemblies etc and sometimes getting paid for it. We are from Aus and the ESF gave a brilliant education in English and I liked the smaller school we were at compared to the aussie school. If you then get yourself a job with ESF/Aussie school you could have two full time salaries and the kids get a free education and you get a 25% gratuity for every year when you finish up your two year contract which means you would be saving heaps of money. Many teachers have their kids at the same school and a small car is not expensive to run or buy in HK. I just sold my mazda 626 which I poodled around the island in and was in perfect condition for 10K hong kong dollars. I only insured it third party and most of your parking at shopping centres is free if you have bought something. Petrol is twice the price of australia but even driving 20 minute to school every day I only filled up once a fortnight.
Look to the long term and with the right helper doing everthing at home - working fulltime in HK is not nearly as stressful as Australia. The house will be much easier. shopping done and a meal on the table. Babysitting whenever you require it, errands done and someone at home to take deliveries supervise workmen etc... it's just like having a wife!
Air pollution a real problem, it is why we have moved to Singapore, 5,000 sq foot house in lovely suburb with a pool, trampoline, table tennis and all the timmings for half the price of our flat on the south side. My kids are older and we were missing the ability to live a "family life" at home without having to go out for outdoor activities. Can your children not got subsidized schooling with your husbands school? That is the biggest uncontrollable cost for expats with children. After he has been there a while he may also be able to move to a school with the right package (medical, housing, school fes) so I would look to longer term time frame and if you have to economise for the short term I think that it may be worth it. We had a ball and made some fantastic friends.
You have lived abroad before so you know that you will need to put a bit aside for the inevitable changing over costs that no one reimburses you for, changing over electrical plugs, new tv is yours won't work, new uniforms, changing cars, mail redirections, deposit for electricity and the myriad of other small costs that add up. Shipping and storage costs of furniture left at home can also be considerable if not covered.
To employ a helper (ethically) you need to budget in my opinion for at least 5,000 a month if you pay her minimum wage, plus her food costs and some transport for errands. Then the levy to the govt which can be paid every six months over the two year period of her contract. Then her medical insurance and other costs not covered by the policy, trips home, the odd bonus, and insurance. It is unrealistic of people to say that it is just their salary and better to over budget than feel that you are constantly having to shell out for unexpected costs. You must also realise that there are employment laws in the helper contract that mean she is entitled to sick leave and maternity, holidays and long service leave and if you are working full time and these events happen you will have to cover the cost of part time legal help which can be difficult to arrange and much more expensive. Doesn't happen all that much but you need to know and think about a fall back if you are relying on working.
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Thanks for all this advice. Very reassuring for me before the big move.
Bloobeard I'm a secondary social science/ Japanese teacher. However, being a language instructor allows me to teach ESL as well. I think that finding work should be pretty easy. Heaps of English teaching work available by the looks.
Sorry you found this thread silly MisterD but better I ask then get to HK and find out I can't pay the bills. Now I know I can I'm feeling more relaxed about the move. Wuoldn't bother asking if it was just my husband and I, we'd live in a shoebox and still have a great time but when you've got little ones to consider it's a different story.
BTW, my little one got accepted into the AISHK so that's a relief too! All falling into place!
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gwern
19 yrs ago
Be warned though. House hunting in HK is very depressing when you have a limited budget. That is the hardest aspect about living in HK and it seems to be getting even harder.....
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No worries MisterD. I see your point.
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hkjazz
Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth. I earn $40k per month. I have a dependent husband and 2 teenage children. We have lived here for 6 years and although we do not live the life of luxury, we live happily here in Hong Kong. Our food budget is approx. $HK1000 per week and then we have electricity/ water / car expenses /education etc. to consider. Only on the rare occasion have we found ourselves hanging out for pay day. So my answer is yes you can live comfortably on $HK50 if you budget carefully, but don't expect a luxurious lifestyle. I say come over and try it, you'll never know if you don't.
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Hmmm, nose picking on the street, open mouthed coughing, unbearable crowds and eye gauging umbrellas....sounds like an average day on the streets of Tokyo to me. So I should be ok. And yep, as terrible as it sounds I certainly agree with the when in rome theory. Although I knew it was time to leave Japan when elbowing an old woman out my way to get on a train didn't even cause me to blink. Mind you, I can't count the number of times I got barrelled by a fragile little old lady barging onto a train.
I think I'd rather give it a go and if I'm not happy my house in Australia will always be here to come home to. You only live once don't they say.
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Here are some benefits of HK:
Not many violent crimes. No guns. Hard working dedicated people. Low taxes. White people get treated like they're special. Most variety of culinary flavours. Shoppers paradise. Cheap helpers. Efficient transportation.
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HKJazz I have been fortunate enough (or otherwise) to live in UK, US, NZ and HK. Give me HK any day. BTW am English. I have 3 kids ranging from teens to toddler and it is a great place to bring up kids. The pros far outweigh the cons so take the plunge and give it a try!
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