Punishing other people's kids and unjust Chinese parenting

Hello everyone, this is my first ever post on this board and I will bring up an issue that has rarely been discussed before when speaking to other Chinese expatriates. First, an introduction. I am a 33-year old Chinese Canadian born in Taipei but I moved to Vancouver, Canada with my parents when I was two years old so I can be considered a second generation Chinese although I could probably qualify for a 1.5 generation since I’m still fluent in Mandarin Chinese and I believe I’m fairly knowledgeable about the Chinese culture and have many Chinese Canadian friends in Vancouver’s high ethnic Chinese population. As a second generation, I have my share of complaints about Chinese culture as I’m sure many other American/Canadian-born-Chinese do, but this is an issue that I’m shocked that no other Chinese kid seems to complain about and I’d like to know if I’m alone in this area. What I will tell you is my biggest complaint about my Chinese upbringing.


Growing up in Canada, I was a fairly quiet and shy kid. I was very well behaved if I was by myself. But sometimes, I would get into some conflicts and disputes with other kids. Most of the time, these disputes would take the form of verbal arguments but occasionally, it would escalate into physical fist fights. Since I was well-behaved, I dare say that in these altercations, it was always the other kid who was more at fault in that they teased, harassed, provoked, and attacked me first. In other words, the other kid was the instigator and perpetrator, and I was the victim.


Now, my biggest complaint: Whenever my dad found out that I got into this conflict with another kid, he would always automatically severely reprimand me without first investigating the reasons behind the fight and without saying anything to the other kid either – even I felt that the other kid was clearly more at fault. Many times, my dad would verbally chastise me and sometimes even spank me right in front of the other kid. I always interpreted that he automatically scolded me because he felt I was 100% at fault, otherwise he would also chastise the other kid as well or instead, just like what schoolteachers do. It became so serious to the extent that it really affected my self-confidence and self-esteem as I was made to feel stupid and worthless, and it prevented me from being confident when dealing with others because I thought that if anything goes wrong, it must be my fault. If I was being harassed by bullies, I’d be afraid to report it to my dad because I had every reason to think that if I reported it, then that would indicate that I got into problems with other kids again and my dad would just automatically scold me again.


While my mom didn’t do the same thing by punishing me automatically, I have some resentment against her as well because she supported my dad all the way in his actions, and she would never punish other people’s kids either. One time, a kid was bullying me and I reported it to both my mom and that kid’s mom. That kid’s mom immediately reprimanded her own son. Afterwards, in a very embarrassing manner, my mom chided me as to why I had to complain about it. Now, that makes me outraged. Why is it okay if I get punished so many times, but when someone else’s misbehaving kid deservingly gets punished, she feels shame and embarrassment?


Nowadays when I confront my parents on that unfair punishment, my mom told me that Chinese parents always punish their own kids first. And my dad said that conflicts between kids are not serious matters, so all he should do as a responsible parent is to control his own kid. I think that is total bullsh*t. I think adults should have every right to punish other people’s kids NOT to teach them, but for the sake of protecting and defending their own kid in situations where the other kid’s misbehaving actions directly affect their own kids. And there is a huge contradiction when it comes to one group of adults: school teachers. Teacher’s are adults too, aren’t they? And yet, they always scold other people’s misbehaving kids. If teachers can do it, then why can’t my dad for the sake of protecting his own son? What I think is so damn ironic is the fact that overall, my dad should still be closer to me than my teacher. And yet, when I’m being bullied by somebody, it is my teacher who would come to my rescue by punishing the bully, whereas my dad only seems to help out to bully by punishing me right in front of the bully. Do you know what this will do? This will encourage the bully to harass me even more because he will see that not even my own father will be there to protect me!


So let me ask all of you Chinese expatriates – were you subject to this kind of unfair punishment from your own parents? When you were kids and you got into conflicts with other kids, would your parents automatically punish you even if the other kid was more at fault? If you were subject to this kind of unfair treatment, do you hold resentment over that? Why do I seem to be the only Chinese kid who complains about that?


On a different note, I am a father-to-be soon and I have made it clear to my wife that I will definitely not repeat what I consider to be extremely unjust parenting behavior in Chinese culture when it comes to punishing kids. If my son gets into a conflict with someone else’s kid, then I will investigate the altercation and if I feel that it is my own kid who misbehaved, then I will by all means punish my own kid. But if I determine that it was the other kid who was more at fault, then I will definitely report the infraction to that kid’s parents. But if that kid’s parents don’t do anything about it or if they are not available, then I would definitely grant myself the right to punish that kid. Now, I know the laws so I will not corporally punish the other kid so as to avoid legal repercussions. But I will definitely harshly verbally chastise the other kid – not for the sake of teaching him but for the sake of protecting my own kid. As a good father, I have a responsibility of protecting my own kid from outside harm, and I punish that other kid to hopefully deter him from harassing my own child again.


So another question for all you Chinese expatriates: how do you deal with situations where your own kid is having problems with someone else’s kid? If you determine that the other kid is definitely more at fault, will you punish the other kid if their parents are unavailable?

I am oversea chinese myself as in somewhere i do understand your point of view. My parents were a little different in dealing with me and siblings on the issues that you mentioned but most of the time, we get the discipline (yes, saikunga, not punishment but discipline). I too wondering why they did so but when I grew a little older and then working, I begin to understand that what they did to us has to do with their upbringing as well - what their parents did to them. So I totally 'forgive' them for some of the severe disciplines they did to us or rather me. Now that I am a perent to my son, I have to very careful of not following my parent (father's) footstep. However, there are times that I will do it because I was so 'use' to have such discipline but I was able to stop it as soon as i realize it is not appropiate to react like this to him.


My mom did support what my dad did to us on that moment but I am sure she talked to him later when he cool down that what he did is just not tough love but simply out of anger and frustration. But again, I am glad that she did not react differently at that time or else i will show favoritism to her and it will be so much tension in the family if we just go to mom. I am glad that my husband is now stand on my side when i discipline or vise versa. We talked later and check on our motive of discipline and we always learned a lesson from there to do it 'better' next time but with the same goal in mind = discipline with tough love.


You learn a lot more after you become a parent and at the same, understand more why you parent/s did that to you. My dad passed away few years ago and my mom is with my brother in Malaysia. I wish that I have shown more love and cares for my dad when he was alive although I dislike his many ways of dealing with us when we were younger. I know I can't turn the clock backward and no among of wishes can work so I now I show love to my father by loving my mom till the end!


Parents are here for a season, once they are gone or their season ended, they are gone forever. Learn to forgive and move on with life and love your kid/s and those love ones that still alive. You will have no regret on this. It is difficult but it is also not impossible. Time will heal.


Have a good weekend.

Thanks for your answers. PDNS, you suggested that Chinese parents treat their own kids that way because that's how they were brought up by their own parents. But I wonder why they didn't feel a sense of injustice and tell themselves that they certainly wouldn't treat their kids in such an unfair manner. Could it be because they weren't exposed to other methods like I was?


What is rather contradictory is that in Chinese culture, family values are very strong. There is an old folktale about how a father told his four quarrelsome sons that it is very easy to break one chopstick, but impossible to break five chopsticks at once. Therefore, they need to protect and support each other like five chopsticks. That said, shouldn't fathers protect their sons by punishing those outside the family who hurt them?

You sound like you had a very challenging childhood. Wow.


I think you need to have a look at some very useful books for parenting.

How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk by Faber and Mazlish

Kids are Worth It by Barbara Coloroso

The Discipline Book by Dr William and Martha Sears.


Very important to understand the real meaning of discipline which is teaching.

Good luck in your new journey down the road of parenthood!


cheers from Ruth

To OP,


I am Chinese. But I think whatever happened to you doesn't necessarily happen to just Chinese kids. It could happen to anyone, it really boils down to individual parenting styles.


You sound like you still have alot of anger about what happened to you as a child. Perhaps you want to consider speaking to a professional about it if you think it's necessary to help you move from.


Aside from that, I think it's great that you, as a parent-to-be have decided that you have decided and agreed with your wife how you want your child to be brought up. That's most important and just go along with that. Try not to bring the emotional baggage you have from your childhood into your parenting style when it comes to your own kid(s) in future.


However, I feel that you have no right to "harshly verbally chastise the other kid". Children are sometimes too young to understand and as the non-parent, it is not your place to say. If your child has been done wrong, yes it is important to tell the other kid even in the absence of his/her parents, no, please don't do that because you are hurting your friend. But that is no excuse to start ranting and raving at a child just to protect your child. You let the child know what's wrong and you have to let your child understand why he shouldn't behave likewise in the future too. It can't be about protecting your child only - you will not be doing him much good in my opinion as he will never know what's right/wrong and he will forever look to you for protection. A child needs to learn how to protect thimself too.


My son is 19 months old. We have a regular playgroup and kids sometimes push one another to get to a toy, some kids get upset if their preferred toy is not available because someone else is playing with it. My son has even had his fingers crushed accidentally between the door by another kid before. But never, ever do we scream at another child. We always try to let the children sort themselves first, a survival skill if you want to call it. Parent intervention is seldom required, we don't go to a playgroup on a defensive mode. Maybe I'm going on and on and confusing you but what I want to say is enjoy parenthood, enjoy your child's socialising skills as he makes new friends, think positive, don't get defensive when there isn't a reason to as yet. Good luck, you have a tough road ahead, you will find that you will have alot of other things to worry about!

.....shouldn't fathers protect their sons by punishing those outside the family who hurt them?


Well, if you are not careful, you will be exact of your father but in opposite way - instead of punishing your own kid/s you will punish others.

For me as a father of 3 kids - if someone had a problem with one of my sons or daughter I would expect them to come and talk to me about it. If I found someone had verbally abused my kids as a form of punishment well of course I will protect my kids and if that mean resorting to violent means to protect them from self absorbed idiots then so be it.


I have taught all of my kids morals, how to respect while always showing and never denying them any love in their lives. The OP has issues he needs to deal with or I feel afraid that he could become a threat to any kids outside of his own family.

Many of you have said that it is not okay to punish other people's kids. Then for the sake of fairness and consistency, does that mean other adult's shouldn't be allowed to punish your kids either - regardless of how misbehaved your son/daughter was? If you are afraid to discipline other people's kids for fear of a huge lawsuit, then does this mean that for the sake of consistency, if someone punishes your kid then you will file a multi-million dollar lawsuit against them?


And does this also mean that people such as teachers and policemen also have no right to discipline other people's kids?

I think you are confusing punishing and educating/disciplining children about what's right and wrong.

E.g My kid and I are in a playgroup and I have gone to the toilet. During this time, my son throws a toy at another child who cries for his mum. The child's mother has every right to intervene and tell my son that it was wrong to do that and I expect to be told of what had happened when I come out. And the mother should also tell her own child that what my son did was wrong and he shouldn't do it either as a tit for tat, etc. But under no circumstances should the other parent scream at my kid, make him stand in a corner, hit him, etc.


As I mentioned in my earlier post, you mustn't treat this children playing business like a war battle and be on the defence, ready to pounce back, etc. You must assess the situation and only intervene when necessary. They are children - it is VERY IMPORTANT that we tell them when things are wrong but it shouldn't be about tit for tat, your dad stood up for me, yours didn't, etc...because what kind of example are you setting for your children? Will you want your child to take your lead and hurl vulgarities/verbal abuse at other children - that might right the wrong you felt as a child but what are you teaching your children? They must learn how to handle certain situation on their own. We cannot be around to protect them forever!