Vaccines - pro, con, info, argue - do it here!

A whole thread just for talking about the pros and cons of vaccines...


Thank you!

hahaha crj, was just wondering when you were going to do this!!

exyogi, I can't really be bothered to keep arguing in the abstract with you (as opposed to somewhat more "concrete" examples in other threads. We both seem pretty set in our ways and I don't think that will change. I do respect that you have your opinions. You do formulate your arguments for them well.


I don't think we'll change each other's minds and this will just generate into a shouting match.


I think vaccines are one of the wonders of modern society, and have saved countless millions from suffering and death. You do not. You think decreases in disease incidence are based on better diet (correct me if I'm wrong).




The easiest thing to do would be to run a big experiment on real people for a couple of generations, but that's not going to happen. ;)

Japan halts vaccines after deaths of 4 children


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41947239/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/

Whoa Ed. They halted one vaccine by one manufacturer. Just like any drug that had unexpected dangerous side effects would be halted.

I am just the messenger... there is overwhelming evidence that vaccines benefits enormously outweigh the risks...

Of course vaccines make a difference, not many children these days suffering side effects or dying, from childhood diseases. When I was a young child it was common to hear of one of your school friends being taken in hospital with polio-kids if they survived well wore a calliper to walk afterwards, diptheria, whooping cough, scarlet fever, loosing eyesight after measles complications, these were serious diseases in those days, TB etc, etc.

I myself spent 6 months in a convelescent home, after first having measles complicated by pneumonia,then immediately contracting scarlet fever-complicated by pneumonia and valvular heart damage, I weighed 28lbs at 6 years old and looked like a starving child from Biafra. I was taken into the hospital wing of the convelscent home, force fed till I gained weight, I was in a ward where a child died one night-he had polio and didn't make it. My family were only allowed and could afford to visit once a fortnight, I hated that place, but they did cure me and I never had to go back again. The home was closed in the early 60's, as vaccinations had by then made a great impact on children becoming so sick, the building still stands, it is now a private boarding school, I'll bet there are some ghosts of the many who died there.

Also, Im reseaching my family history using one of the pay websites, it is very sad and amazing to see ancesters and non-ancesters died at young ages from diseases which today are preventable. Thank goodness for vaccinations, and to the compensation seeking culture you should be ashamed of yourself. The risk of avoiding these illness's far outweighs the very odd ones which go wrong.

Susie1 ... "Thank goodness for vaccinations, and to the compensation seeking culture you should be ashamed of yourself. The risk of avoiding these illness's far outweighs the very odd ones which go wrong."


Despite the awful experiences you endured, and, regarding the boy who died of polio, I have to say that neither vaccination, nor, not vaccination had anything to do with that situation. You, and that boy, were just another victim of poor doctoring -- poor doctoring which was/is orchestrated by the medical/drug cartel.


What on earth am I talking about?


The reason vaccination had nothing to do with your story is because the medical/drug cartel has known since the 1940's that mega-dosages of vitamin c can CURE all those ailments you mentioned. Let me repeat: there was/is a CURE for polio, there was/is a CURE for measles, there was/is a CURE for scarlet fever, etc, etc. Since it was/is known that an inexpensive cure is available for those ailments, the matter of a vaccination is a moot point.


I'll provide the reference showing when mega-dosages of vitamin c first came upon the scene. Before I do that, I'd like to illustrate to you the power of megadosages so that when you read the reference, you'll have a better understanding of what's being reported. I posted this on another discussion, but the following link was a broadcast on New Zealand TV about how megadosages of vitamin c saved a guy from a swine flu death ....

http://www.3news.co.nz/Living-Proof/tabid/371/articleID/171328/Default.aspx


Now here is the reference detailing the early days of megadosage vitamin c research. The writing is a bit on the dry side, but fortunately it's not too technical or too long. This is an absolute MUST read for any parent researching non-vaccinating their child. The reason being is because it shows how totally unnecessary vaccination is.

http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/landwehr-r-j_orthomol_med-1991-v6-n2-p99.htm

"one guy" was saved from swine flu? That's not evidence. That's a blip. You can't prove that the vitamin C dosage caused him to get better, especially since most people get better from swine flu all by themselve . I'd rather trust my meds on methods that are proven to work on more than one person.




Find me one peer-reviewed study on the Vitamin C thing in a respected journal like Lancet or the New England Journal of Medicine and I'd be inclined to take a closer look.


I guess you will say those are all parts of "the conspiracy". Well, that's not how experimental science works. The peers (read: competitors) do their best to rip the argument of shreds. If they can't do that, it passes muster. It's not like all doctors and medical researchers are buddies who want to put one over on the public.

axptguy38 ..... " "one guy" was saved from swine flu? That's not evidence. You can't prove that the vitamin C dosage caused him to get better ...."



To illustrate the absurdness of this statement, here's a simple experiment any person/parent reading this post can perform: Have you got a child that's about 12 years old (if not go borrow one)? Have that child look at the 17 minute New Zealand broadcast ( http://www.3news.co.nz/Living-Proof/tabid/371/articleID/171328/Default.aspx ). Tell them that a 'grown-up' made the above comment. Then ask them what they think about the comment. Ask them if they were as sick as the man in the broadcast, and NOTHING ELSE THE DOCTORS TRIED WORKED, would they want to be given the vitamin C. Then ask them to explain their decision.



Axptguy38, you really do cast a bad reflection on your pro-vaccinate community when you write such nonsense that a mentally developing 12 year old can recognize as ridiculous.



"Find me one peer-reviewed study on the Vitamin C thing in a respected journal like Lancet or the New England Journal of Medicine and I'd be inclined to take a closer look."



Let me see if I've got this straight .......... the 2,000+ published research articles identified in the book, "Curing the Incurable: Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins"*** is not enough for you. Correct?. You might consider taking a 'closer look' at the issue ONLY if an article is published in the Lancet or the New England Journal of Medicine. Is that the essence of your position? And the position of your supportors in the pro-vaccinate community?


http://www.tomlevymd.com/books.html


*** Curing the Incurable: Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins

LivOn Books


Order Online

(The order site also describes the book and the material covered in it.)


Please feel free to preview the follow sections:


Introduction

the first part of Chapter 1

the first part of Chapter 2

the first part of Chapter 3

the first part of Chapter 4

the first part of Chapter 5


http://www.tomlevymd.com/books.html

I'd rather get my scientific advances from actual science.


I think I'm done here.

axpatguy38 ..... "I'd rather get my scientific advances from actual science."


Thousands of published research papers, from around the world, and, without looking at a single one, axpatguy38 dismisses them all as unscientific.


Incredible.



"I think I'm done here."

Hate to see you go. No doubt the next pro-vaccinate cheerleader will provide equally insane reasons for injecting toxins into the body.