I DONT WANT TO PAY RENT

I belong to a minority in hong kong and when i wanted to sign a tenancy agreement, i was asked to produce a proof of employment, mind you not proof of capacity to pay ie: bank account, but some proof that i could afford the rent, yet does not want it by auto pay (as i understand the auto pay system requires a teeny-weeny bit service fee)


as i could not provide proof of employment (i derive my means of livelihood from sources better left undiscussed), i asked a friend to sign the contract for me. a white face immediately got a four hundred dollars reduction.


the agreement was for one year and a two months deposit was given, a 1000 deposit for electricity and a MONTHLY flat rate of 150.00 for water. i also had to pay 200.00 for electricity as an estimate, though i was supposed to have a separate meter.


on the tenth month of the contract, the rent was purposedly left unpaid with the notion of letting the deposit pay for the remaning months of the contract.


the landlord started to terrorize my friend that it nearly cost him his marriage. i on the other hand had already explain my intention of not paying rent and simply offset the deposit for the rent. and then i got a notice collecting the amount of 3,800.00 for the electric bills i had for the last ten months. this is in addition to the 200.00 a month i have been paying.


so for ten months, i had used electricity that costed 580.00 a month. the flat had two 7000btu a/c. a small fridge. micorwave. water heater. flat tv. laptop. normal tv. vacuum cleaner. sends washings including floor mats to the laundry.


no rice cooker. induction cooker. hair dryer. hi-fi.

rarely goes out thus no ironing done at all.


and perhaps to impress upon me that the meter was right, the wires short circuited the entire connection and which i had to suffer for two days with no power.


llandlord came to fix the problem, two weeks later in the middle of the night, power went off again. i called another friend who did a supposedly first aid to the grounded electrical connection. the wirings were just going haywire that he had to change the circuit breaker as the wattage was wrong or something.


the following month, landlord comes presenting a notice that if i do not want to sign a new contract, i should vacate immediately on the day the contract ends. to sign a contract, i am asked to pay two month's deposit, thus making total deposit, as in money sleeping in landlord's account the amount for three month's rent.


as i felt the deposit too oppressive, just because i had noproof of what kind of animal i was, i just kindly said that as i still have two months deposit, i should stay for two months still.


the landlord had decided that the damage i have made in the flat was valued equivalent to a month's rent. i asked a contractor friend to estimate whatever was considered normal wear and tear damage to the flat. i told the landlord, i would prefer she returns the deposit as i will just hire my own contractor as it only would cost a fraction of the deposit i have with her.


she stomped her feet leaving the flat calling me all the racist things which was now translated again by another friend. then she came back after some thinking maybe and this time presenting to me a letter that i was asked to signed that by the a said date, i shall leave the premises. deposit forfeited

and that was it.


i tried to get in touch with my friend who signed the contract. no luck. the landlord must have known this that on the day i was ordered to leave the flat, in the middle of the afternoon of sunday when one had a normal saturday night of heavy drinking, i woke up with two men in my room.


the steel gate had been dismantled, and the two men were the landlord and son.


i called the cops. they called the cops.


the brain not working properly, i agreed to leave in three days time. at the same time they were showing to the cops the tenancy agreemtn (which of course i had no copy of) which had now i remember


1. no signature of me as a witness whch i knew i did when i signed it a year ago 2. an added clause in the supposedly writing of my friend and signed stating that he is agreeable to forfeiting the amount deposited as a payment for the normal wear and tear damages in the flat. 3. there were n stamps in the contract.



I KNOW I HAVE BEEN HAD.


who should i call this time to help me sort this out?


thanks

You cannot stop paying rent with the intentions that your deposit cover your remaining months.


Were you not a deadbeat, your landlord wouldn't have had to kick you out.

like what gdbill said. The funds in the deposit are not something you have any right to access. That money is for the landlord to hold as a security deposit to be returned to you after you move out once the flat has been inspected. If you had decided to take down the bathroom tiles, put holes in the walls, let potplants overflow adn dameaged the flooring, etc, the funds in the deposit would be in part used to pay for that. If you'd respected the place and returned it in acceptable condition then you could expect to get your deposit back.


You can't, as a tenant cannot decide to not pay rent...

But fair enough - landlords do tend to keep deposits as they like to be able to redecorate etc for their next tenants at no cost to themselves, when they should return the $. I'd do the same as the OP myself.

^ And then you'd be out in the street as quick as the OP was, too.

In the past I have done this but with the full agreement of the landlord. If there is no agreement then you have no rights to withhold the money. As a landlord now myself I would expect to be asked and if someone does not ask then I will kick them out, simple as that. There is a contract that has been signed and it is up to both parties to adhere to that contract.

I have some sympathy for the OP and do agree in part with the views of kittycat2.


In HK, the system for holding the bond is archaic and offers little protection to the tenant. In some other countries there is a government body which holds the bond and both parties have to apply at the end of the lease for the return of the bond where no damage has been done to the property. Where the landlord does wish to deduct $ from the bond, they need to justify this to the government body as part of the release of the bond. This offers a great deal of protection to the tenant as otherwise (particularly in HK with rents as they are) it is a heck of a lot of money sitting with someone who (a) could refuse to return it for spurious reasons or (b) could go bankrupt during the course of the lease and the bond disappears. Neither of which is acceptable to the tenant.


Our friends rented a place and at the end of the term the landlord refused to return the bond at the end of the term despite no damage to the property saying that the tenants could sue him for it. After much angst and having to put a caveat on the title of the property, they finally got the money back but cost them in $$, effort and stress. So I can certainly see why people would want to stop paying rent for the last 2 months of the term provided that the landlord has the opportunty to check that there is no damage which would need to be repaired using the bond $. I agree that this is what the bond $ is intended for but not all landlords are honest and reliable (nor adhere to their side of the terms of the contract).

^ in HK the system for holding deposits is in line with the vast majority of other countries in the world.


There is a tenancy contract. If you don't like the terms, don't sign it. It really is that simple.


Just as there are bad landlords, there are bad tenants.

I can understand what starbucks has said but a contract is a contract and deposits are the norm in many, many countries, including many in the west so to speak.


I have had the opposite, with an agent holding a tenants deposit and then refunding it without checking the place which was an absolute mess. I had to take the agent and previous tenant to court to have the repairs paid for which was around 5000 pounds UK. This took me over a year to get my money back. Why should I have to wait? So lets not just blame landlords........

I do know what you mean evildeeds - I am a landlord myself although not in HK. Here I am only a tenant and therefore my view is slanted such. I assume that your experience with the estate agent was in England. I also had friends there who had a hard time getting a deposit back because it was held with the estate agents who then went bust! They went to the offices of the estate agent having not been able to reach them by phone and they had up and left! So an estate agent holding the deposit doesn't work well either. And I agree that deposits are definately the norm in all of the places I have lived - my feelings of sympathy with the OP was more HOW the deposits are held . A govt body holding the deposit protects both sides but unfortunately this is not done here.


gdbill - just because the HK system is used in other countries doesn't mean that it is a good system. And do you really think that a tenant usually has much bargaining power - particularly in the HK market at the moment (perhaps during SARS ...). And even if the tenant did have the bargaining power, there are no other alternatives to propose for the holding of the deposit. There may be bad tenants out there but the landlord is protected from this by the deposit and rent in advance for damage/lost rent etc. The tenant is not protected from the deposit money being withheld for spurious reasons or the landlord going bust.

rather than end up in the streets, i di move out eventually. but the landlord insisted not to return the one month deposit ++ as she said it was payment for the damages i had made on the flat. before i left thugh, i asked an independent contractor and said the amount was way too much for the damages incurred.

i had to keep my sanity but was too close in just banging the walls and breaking the windows or pulling the electrical wirings if only to keep even with the penalty i had to give in to as i was not the one who signed the cntract!


i am now living in a different place, the landlord and the real estate agent was even accomodating to let me give the deposit by the end of the month only.


this is life in hong kong methinks: but then being a minority is even much much more difficult!

yyng


You being in the minority has no bearing at all on this, So stop playing the victim card, You were wrong to withhold the last 2 months rent without notifying the landlord beforehand of your intentions.


If you were a local you still would of been in the wrong in this scenario.


Life in HK is adhering to the contract you have signed and if you deviate from it then be prepared to pay the consequences.

I agree, I'm not sure why you keep thinking it was because you were a minority...you were breaking the 'rules' You cannot decide to keep the deposit as 2 months rent. If you had done damage, like you said you did then someone needs to pay...that someone was you. As your friend who signed the lease I would have been furious at you for causing all the problems...you were responsible for keeping yourb end of the deal.


I don't have a problem with people's life choices and the jobs they have, no matter how odd, but if you have no evidence of a regular salary then any landlord is going to be nervous. Your ethnic backround has no bearing here.


I have moved flat in HK 5 times and have never not had my deposit returned. I had been warned that landlords do this but this was not the case at all.