Posted by
sanvale
18 yrs ago
Hello all, I just came back form the place where the pollution is particularly potent right now ...SHANGHAI!!!!
Most people suffer from asthma, dry eyes, nasal congestion caused by the air pollution. This is truly scary!
Can someone tell me something about air pollution in Hong Kong?
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Ed
18 yrs ago
I lived in Shanghai for most of 2007. And I lived in HK since 1991. The pollution in HK is definitely worse, or at least it affects me more (although Shanghai can have its days).
I think the problem with Hong Kong is the compounded by the clusters of tall buildings that trap the smog from China + the vehicular pollution. In Shanghai there is often a breeze which I think dissipates the pollution on all but the worst days. In HK it sits at street level in the built up areas.
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Pollution affects people differently. I agree with Ed as to the reasons.
Get good air purifiers for your home and the problem is much mitigated. You'll have clean air when you sleep if nothing else. And don't forget to clean them!
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Thanks. I am just so worried of growing my son up in a polluted environment like Hong Kong
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Ed
18 yrs ago
Depends on which part of China - Beijing is certainly far worse than HK.
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"Thanks. I am just so worried of growing my son up in a polluted environment like Hong Kong"
It depends a lot on where you live. Causeway Bay or North Point are pretty bad, but somewhere like South Side is not bad at all.
"I also don't buy the Made in China excuse as to why HK is polluted. Much of it is homegrown - dirty fuel used in the electric utilities, commercial vehicles and boats."
I think it is a combination. You can certainly notice when the wind is coming down the Pearl River. Then again, the trucks and buses here would never be allowed to circulate in, say, California. Yech...
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Agreed Jane > has everyone put their concern in begining with idling vehicles and the EPD > http://www.epd.gov.hk/epd/english/environmentinhk/air/pub_consult/files/Consultatoin_doc_eng_combine.pdf
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"has everyone put their concern in begining with idling vehicles and the EPD "
Idling vehicles are only part of the problem. A modern car built to California regs really doesn't pollute much at all, especially when idling. In fact some very new cars actually emit cleaner air than they pull in if the air is very polluted (yes it's true).
The problem is mainly older cars, and buses and trucks (lorries). These are just filthy in HK. It's a disgrace since a city like LA has twice the population and probably three times as many vehicles but vehicle emissions are only a fraction of what we see here.
Trivia: California cars, trucks and buses are so clean nowadays that the worst pollutants in the LA basin are... wait for it... two stroke leaf blowers.
My point is that vehicles can be clean, and it would be much more helpful to force strict emissions regulations than to stop them idling.
I know that wouldn't solve crap blowing down the Pearl River delta, but at least it's a very significant start.
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Have to agree wih you axpatguy38 that CB and N Point are pretty bad, but 'South Side is not bad at all'???? I thought you were from Sweden? How would you not class the air down here as bad; you can see (and sometimes taste) the dirt. Granted, it's 40% 'better' than places like Tung Chung and DB, but I can assure you that it's still pretty bad outside my front door!
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"Have to agree wih you axpatguy38 that CB and N Point are pretty bad, but 'South Side is not bad at all'???? I thought you were from Sweden? How would you not class the air down here as bad; you can see (and sometimes taste) the dirt."
South Side is not bad "for HK" ;) Compared to Sweden it's not very clean of course.
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Ed
18 yrs ago
I agree that vehicles are not the only source of pollution but I think this canyon effect is what differentiates HK from all other cities in the region, many of which have worse overall pollution than HK.
I have lived in Bangkok and Shanghai in the past year without any problems but within a day of returning to HK I experience respiratory irritations. I may be wrong but I think that the stuff coming out of vehicles is much worse than the other smog we are breathing and because it does not dissipate like in other cities, it causes additional health problems specific to HK only
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"I may be wrong but I think that the stuff coming out of vehicles is much worse than the other smog we are breathing and because it does not dissipate like in other cities, it causes additional health problems specific to HK only"
Combination of the geography and the lack of decent emissions regulations in my opinion.
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"The canyon effect, as researched by a Professor and his team from CUHK, mostly affects a small geographical area of Hong Kong Island. Therefore, it can't be applied to the entire 650 sq km's of the SAR."
Of course. Still, a lot of people live in the areas with high rise buildings. Or there wouldn't be high rises.
If you want to live in HK but have "cleaner" air there are options, none of which are close to the hub.
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mrsmith, I find myself disagreeing with some of your points. Just to make it clear, I don't disagree that pollution in HK is bad.
"as we know the carbon footprint from airline travel is excessive."
Define "excessive". Compared to the train, perhaps. But if you are trying to go from here to Europe a modern airliner is a very clean and efficient way to do so.
"however if it fair to assume the air quality has deteriorated there due to the airliners."
Well sure, but modern airliners are quite clean if you compare to all the old trucks and buses tooling around HK.
"For example someone living in low rise dwellings in Ma On Shan, Tseung Kwan O, Tai Po or Kowloon Tong using the MTR for transport might actually get to Central faster (door to door), cheaper, with less stress and with a much lower carbon footprint as opposed to someone who takes a diesel powered mini bus."
Just as a point of order, diesel propulsion is not by definition dirty. Modern diesels such as those sold in Europe are just as squeaky clean as modern petrol powered vehicles.
"So as you can see the air pollution, if blamed on vehicles, for the CBD is in fact the fault and responsibility of the decision makers that choose the CBD for business. If they were to decentralise, then health and productivity would increase due to the lower rents and less congestion."
You're making the assumption that decentralization does not have any negative effects. The reason business is centralized is because centralization is good for business. Besides, I would think that if you decentralize you just spread the pollution around.
There are plenty of relatively clean cities around the world. It all starts with regulating vehicular and other emissions. I'm not saying that London, New York and San Francisco have crisp mountain air, but at least a passing truck won't make you cough your lungs out.
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"Let's put it this way then. If your HK life revolves around the mid levels and northern coastline of HK Island, then you will have a very tainted view of air pollution."
Absolutely. ;)
"Check some of the research regarding the carbon footprint from airliners. "
I agree that airliners have a high carbon footprint, but the whole airliner debate is really much more of an issue in Europe, where low cost airlines are nudging out cleaner trains. For the typical medium to long haul flights we see in HK, flying is quite clean if you calculate carbon per passenger.
"You are right that vehicular pollution in HK is relatively lower than other places due to the fairly modern fleet."
BEtter than Manila or somewhere perhaps, but a disaster compared to a Western European or US city.
"Issues like cleaning up vehicle emissions could start here since this website is apparently patronised by decision makers and therefore they should be encouraged to do something about it. Maybe some incentives can be offered."
That would be ideal. I'm afraid my cynical self is pessimistic though. :(
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Ed
18 yrs ago
It is not easy to get corporates to stand tall on this issue. I think they would like to, but remember whose toes you step on if you throw darts at the power plants and other polluters in this city...if you are lets say a bank and you want business from one of the conglomerates who own a polluting industry its best to keep your head low eh.
So even though there are many decision makers on this site, I think, and understandably so, self-preservation takes priority over cleaner air.
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How about living in Park Island on Ma Wan? I heard that they have vechicle control so that vechile emission is not much a problem at least.
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HK is Polluted! It's not going to go away. I opt to live in the NT for quality of life overall. Pollution effects each individual differently. I have heard the same stories from others returning to HK even from areas which suffer pollution to a noted high degree just as Ed is describing. If you are looking to move to HK for only a short period of time then I believe it is not a big issue, however it is the prolonged effect you have to be always conscious of. I have two children 3 & 7 in which the the elder has been here for 5 years without any issues and the younger born here and in same condition. The same makeup of family next who have been here for half this time on some parts of the Island have issues. Come to Hong Kong, enjoy the city for what it has to offer but dont make it a final or full time destination is my advice. Good Luck!
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I address sanvale's main point, which seems to be the concern of his son growing up in polluted HK.
If you must live in HK, and choose to live near Central, you can control your indoor environment at home with dehumidifiers, many of which also clean the air. I have serious asthma and feel healthier in HK than I ever did in some of the world's clean-air cities -- less use of my inhalers, less wheezing, etc. I attribute this to (1) running 7 dehumidifiers 24/7 with windows always closed; and (2) almost never going outside. Probably not fun for a kid, but possible.
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"
If you must live in HK, and choose to live near Central, you can control your indoor environment at home with dehumidifiers, many of which also clean the air. I have serious asthma and feel healthier in HK than I ever did in some of the world's clean-air cities -- less use of my inhalers, less wheezing, etc. I attribute this to (1) running 7 dehumidifiers 24/7 with windows always closed; and (2) almost never going outside. Probably not fun for a kid, but possible."
Well if you have to do all that I would live somewhere far from Central.
"the problem with having all those dehumidifiers running is that you are creating excessive electrical demand from a power station that spews toxic smoke. so in a sense you are creating a vicious cycle."
True, but typically dehumidifiers are not used for cleaning the air (although many do that as a secondary function). A "real" air purifier is more efficient and uses less power to clean.
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May I ask a question somewhat on this topic?
We're moving from Sweden to HK in 3 months and the change in air quality we'll be exposing our now 10 month old to is troubling us. We'll need to be within comuting distance to the airport (hubby's a pilot) and won'er if living on the south coast of Lantau would really make that much difference to how much crap we breath in. Also, is there much difference between TC adn DB? They're only a few kms appart but people say that big hill between makes all the difference...not so sure. We have no need to live 'downtown' at all of course to that's not so relevant to us. Thanks in advance.
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"We're moving from Sweden to HK in 3 months and the change in air quality we'll be exposing our now 10 month old to is troubling us."
Our 10 month old (was 6 months when we moved) seems to be doing just fine but we did look carefully at air quality in various areas. You should buy air purifiers by the way.
I'm not going to say the pollution isn't bad. It is. But there are also other factors that affect respiratory tracts: heat, humidity and pollen. In general, the humidity is nice. Sweden is very dry so you'll notice a huge difference. I find that you never get that cold dry feeling in your throat. If you have hay fever, you will probably feel it much less here. Less grass and no accursed birch trees littering the place.
Just as an option: I would note that with the airport express commuting to the airport is very easy. How long a commute would your husband accept? If he can take one hour you could live in Stanley or Repulse Bay, and with another ten minutes even Tai Tam/Red Hill. I don't know what kind of work he does but if he is away for days at a time an hour at each end might not be so bad.
Lantau is definitely cleaner than the northern parts of the Island and Kowloon. And yes, hills make a big difference (hills tend to be tall in HK). We live on south side and are shielded by the bulk of the island. Not that the air is pristine like in most of Sweden but it's not bad at all. Our daughters are outside playing pretty much every day.
I don't really know Lantau that well for living but as I understand it it's not really the center of the Universe, if you know what I mean. Not that we all need to live in Central or Causeway Bay but there is a middle ground. ;)
If you want to talk in Swedish send me a PM and we can do email.
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"Just a cautionary note - living on the south side of the island is much more expensive than other parts of HK - Pilots do not get a great housing allowance in comparison to other expat packages, so unless you want to live in a shoebox or smaller - avoid the southside."
Agreed.
"You need to have a look around before you settle anywhere first. Stay in a hotel or serviced apartment and check things out for yourselves."
Again agreed. This is often overlooked by new arrivals. Meet the real estate agent ASAP and have him/her take you around. You CAN find what you want if you look. But it takes a lot of looking. Expect at least 4-5 days of home searching.
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"I'd avoid HG Island altogether. It is way overrated."
That's pretty subjective. ;) Some of us wouldn't consider living off the Island. Some much prefer outlying areas.
Just so we can get an idea of your criteria, how would you consider the Island overrated?
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I guess it depends on what your family needs. I know people in HKG who love where they live for the nightlife and others who love where they live for the hiking....each to his own.
Our priorities lay around clean(ish) air, social network, public transport, proximity to the airport and as much space as possible, both indoors and terrace/garden.
You're right about pilots not getting nearly as much in housing allowance. We get 28k to begin with (I think) and after a few years it gets up to 60k whereas I've seen expats in the financial sector sooking about their 200k housing allowances!!! sheesh!!! I have a friend with a husband in Hong Kong airways and they get no housing allowance at all so I won't complain for a second about our 28k!
We looked at Mui Wo and it seemed to have potential but I wonder if it might feel a bit isolated? I've already made some friends through here that live at TC and that whole area with citygate is very convenient as well as that it's all of a $30 cab to the airport!
Hubby is starting with Cathay so in the beginning we get put up at Cathay city for up to 6 months. I doubt we'll be there for longer than 1 month though, as living on top of each other in a hotel room with a baby who will be 14-15 months old will most deffinately try our patience! I've also looked at the goldcoast area and all that but it seems to be a fair way away from 'everything' else...opinions?
If we could get a furnished, short term rental at TC for the 3 months that he's going to and from the airport each day then that would be good but after that he's only going to the airport 3 times a month and coming home 3 times a month so yes, we can live firther afield.
On that note, anyone know of a firnished appartment for rent for 3-4 months that suits our needs? We'd need it from early may optimally and our upper limit is about 28k...cheers
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Back to the original poster. If you are coming to HK short-term then let's face it, it's all about exposure. You will need to gauge your decision likely on your family needs and working needs along with budget allowed. This will determine the "where" you could live.
To the family with the 10 month old, being a pilot offers many options but Lantau is definately a good start, close commute, rents reasonable and less polluted.
Good Luck!
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