What should I do to help my 8.5 month old boy to sleep through the night? My boy last feed is 7pm and he drinks 100-120ml. He will sleep all the way till morning 7am, but requires 3 dream feed in between - around 11pm, 2pm, 5pm (each feed, i give about 100ml here, but am thinking to increase 11pm to 120ml). i don't mind giving him the 11pm feed as i think he probably still need that. but ideally, i hope he sleeps from 11pm till 7am without waking. is that possible? I have started him on solid after 6 months.
Pls provide me with solution....
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oh no, 3 feeds at that age is quite a lot. In theory, they should be able to go without any night feeds at that age, but of course reality is never the same as theory, is it? We stoped night feeds with ours at 4 months. They still woke up for a while but we just gave them a bit of water and then they figured out there is no point and were not expecting milk anymore.
Is your little one on solids? You have to make sure he eats well, esp his dinner, so he is not hungry at night. 100-120 ml is not that much, but I am not sure how to make him drink more. What is your routine? What time does he have solids? try to give him a very good meal (maybe some carbs as they are slow-burning and last longer) like a baby pasta or rice with chicken or something like this at aroun 6 pm?
Also, if the baby is eating well all day and drinks enough milk throughout the day - then, it is qiute likely, he wakes up out of habit. In this case, you will have to break it I am afraid. Just either give water as I mentioed, or just pat him (but dont take him out of the cot) until he falls asleep again. I know it is hard work - but you have to do it I am afraid as otherwise he will continue waking up. It might take 2 wks, might take a month but it is worth it in the end.
Good luck
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do you consider 11pm as night feed too? so does it mean your little bub sleeps from 7pm to 7am without any feed? if so, that's really good!
my feeding schedule is like such:
7.30am 120ml
9am cereal with fruit
11.30am lunch - rice+fish/chickn+vege+fruit
2.30pm 120ml
5pm dinner - rice+vege+fruit
7pm 120ml
11pm 120ml
2am 100ml
5am 100ml
I actually haven't figure out whether he is hungry at night or waking out of habit. but he does finish the 100ml milk that i give him at night.
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hmm.. yes, 11 pm is a night feed, so we droped that one around 4 months - unless I forget - you do tend to forget quickly - but the latest we would have done it was 5 months - as by the time we moved to HK - they were 5 months - 7 pm was the last feed we did. I followed Gina Ford routine with mine two... I cant remember exactly how much the baby should have during the day, to make sure he gets the right amount of milk - but if you add your 3 day time feeds it does seem on the low side - 360 ml... I think it should be more like 600-700ml. Is it all the baby takes or is it just what you give him? How is his solids intake - does he eat well? Basically you should aim to give all the milk during the day - easier said than done, I am sure... Do get Gina Ford book if you havent yet - it might give some answers - I find it excellent....
And try to get him to take all his milk (600 ml or so) during the day - then you can start training him (i.e. giving water or nothing at all and just patting him back to sleep).
It is just too hard on you - 3 feeds a night at that age!!
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just thought of something else - your baby only takes 120ml in the morning, because you feed him through the night and he is not hungry. Babies are normally ravenous at that time - he should be able to take 240ml or so..
What would happen if you dont give him any milk after 7pm till 7am? Have you tried it? It is a bit of a Catch 22 - I suspect he will drink a lot more during the day if you stop the night feeds. Try it for a couple of days and see what happens? I am sure he will cry (all babies do) - let him - just pat him so he knows you are there.. I am sure he will have his full 240 ml bottle the next morning!
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Hi..i have tried using pacifier at night, hoping to wean him off, so hence didn't feed him at night. indeed he took much more in the day. However, that didn't stop him from tossing and turning at night, and wanting his pacifier. in fact, i had lesser sleep with him having pacifier cos he doesn't sleep well. hence, i was back to night feeding.
i guess i will try the method of patting. i just bought a book about night sleeping. one of the methods is to reduce night intake on a gradual method. i may be more comfortable at this at the moment.
he takes well for his solid. but i cut down his dinner solid at 5pm. because otherwise, he in fact refuses any milk feed at 7pm. i do follow gina ford losely as well. she suggested 5pm tea time and 7pm last milk feed. i can't seem to follow that as if i give my bub a really good solid dinner at 5pm, he simply refuses any more milk from 7pm. i now cut half of the dinner portion, in order for my bub to take 120 ml milk at 7pm. do you have this problem?
i feed him 120ml because that's all he takes. often, he in fact couldn't quite finish!
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"What would happen if you dont give him any milk after 7pm till 7am? Have you tried it? It is a bit of a Catch 22 - I suspect he will drink a lot more during the day if you stop the night feeds. Try it for a couple of days and see what happens? I am sure he will cry (all babies do) - let him - just pat him so he knows you are there.. I am sure he will have his full 240 ml bottle the next morning!"
Aye. Be tough. Not too tough but in the end he should not be able to run you ragged like this.
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Kim11
18 yrs ago
I had to do this around 6 months becuase I was too tired after getting up every 2 hours. I did a dream feed before I went to bed at night for two weeks. I had to make sure she was actually asleep and not starting to wake for the feed. So if she woke up at the time I was to feed her I had to wait and see if she would go back to sleep then feed her when she was asleep. I gradually changed the time of the feed and started giving less so she would not wake for it. Then I had to not feed her all night. Yes she did cry but it was not worse than getting up every two hours to feed. It took 3 days of disrupted sleep and then a few more disruptions over the next 2 weeks but that was it.
But now I don't dream feed her and she can be up at 5:30 am! I have tried to feed her at that time and put her back to sleep but it doens't work. She also was not eating/feeding well in the morning which changed after I didn't feed her all night.
So, yes you can expect your baby to sleep through most of the night. I would suggest a feed at 11 so they don't wake too early like mine and you can give weaker formula, water or no feed at night depending on what you decide. But I think you just need to stick with it for a few nights even if the baby cries a lot. They will eventually learn to go back to sleep. This would also stop your baby waking for just very small amounts all night long and hopefully be hungry in the morning.
Good luck, hope it works and you start getting some more sleep, you will feel like a new person!
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All babies are different and there are many reasons for night waking. It could be teeth coming in, it could be overstimulation during the day, it could be sensitivity to the food that is being fed, allergens in the bedroom, noises in the night, no noises in the night, not the right temperature in the room etc. Give your baby time. You don't have to be 'tough'. He will not do this forever and not ALL babies sleep all the way through. There's no real standard or time. This too shall pass.
Have a look at Elizabeth Pantley's website...just google her name and you'll find it. There's some great tips there; you don't have to buy her books.
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Of course "this too shall pass" but 8.5 months the poor mum should expect a bit of a better sleep pattern than this. And without "training" it will take a long time to get there - I can imagine that you are climbing walls by now with so little sleep - so do chose what you are comfortable with (cutting amounts of milk at night) and go for it - hopefully in a couple of wks you will get there!
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HI all, thanks for all of your great tips and encouragement! at least from all of you, i m now sure my bub is capable of not taking night feed (cos before i was thinking he is still little and perhaps hungry). i definitely need to 'train' my bub not to have any more night feeding cos it is really affecting both my hubby and i. my hubby works really late and at times, weekends too, so we have been grumpy at each other due to our lack of sleep, work stress, etc! sigh.... i m determined to improve the situation, but with minimum crying as we still need our sleep. both of us work. i need to discuss with my hubby too to have his encouragement and support, but now, we are on a row and not yet in good talking terms! ha.
i usually give my bub pacifier to keep him quiet when he cries. but last night, when he cries after feed, i ended him up carrying up from his cot. he in fact needed to be burped, and after that, i just placed him back to his cot and patted him, and he slept without pacifier. i m very glad of this little achievement and realisation. i also increase his feed at 11pm to 120ml (before was 100ml), and reduced his 5am milk to just 80ml and he slept till the morning. i intend to do the gradual method to reduce the 5am feed. once he drops that, i will work on the 2am feed. hopefully it works.
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get rid of the dummy for bedtime sleep, he'll wake up once it falls out of his mouth, which is a problem.
ok, my toddler was a bad milk drinker. used to take 1 hour just to take 120ml so every baby is different, 180-240ml is prob ideal at 7am by this age but don't kill yourself even if he doesn't make it. when mine slept through the night from 11pm to 7am, it was a miracle if he drank about 150ml in the morning. he drank so little milk but slept well but i introduced solids at 5.5 months to supplement his diet as recommended by the doc.
but at 8.5 months, it is quite overdue for the child to be sleeping at least from 11-7am....i really doubt at this age, 2am and 5am feeds should still exist, i would think in the worst case, just one. at 8.5 months, i guess he is waking up out of habit now.
I would say try to eliminate one night feed first....give a good feed at bedtime and the 10.30pm feed and see if he can stretch until 3-4am, feed enough for him to sleep through until 7am but not too much until he feeds poorly at 7am. you might also need to consider settling him with cooled boiled water and there might be some crying involved unfortunately. at the 3-4am feed, do not change nappy unless necessary, everything dark and quiet, just finish the feed and be done with it.
good luck, it too shall pass as ruth says but i think you need to make some effort that to happen.
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"i usually give my bub pacifier to keep him quiet when he cries. but last night, when he cries after feed, i ended him up carrying up from his cot. he in fact needed to be burped, and after that, i just placed him back to his cot and patted him, and he slept without pacifier. i m very glad of this little achievement and realisation."
Nice! As I see it babies are the ultimate mind bending puzzle. Always something to figure out. Scant clues and to top it off one is not normally in top form what with being dead tired. ;)
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hi woonwoonbee, this is just my opinion, as i also had a baby that was waking up often at night. Both hubby and I work, and we, especially I was sleep deprived and stressed to the point of feeling very sad and depressed. I decided to go cold turkey and stop night feeding altogether, ofcourse my baby didn't quite agree, but i was there to pick him up and calm him down, and after about three to four nights he stopped rooting.
I suggest you get tracy hoggs book, 'the baby whisperer solves your problems'. It's a gentler approach than ferber or other ones where you basically let the baby cry while looking in at timed intervals.
TRacy hogg's method is a bit tiring, baby does cry (mine did) and in the begining a back breaking, but within a few days your baby will understand what you want him to do. my baby still wakes up occasionaly once or twoce, but all he has to is see me and he lies down and goes back to sleep.
Whichever method you choose to use, remember that cosnistency is very very important. don't confuse baby with giving milk one day, no milk the next etc...
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i just wanted to add, that i tried to put off going cold turkey for a long time. i slept with baby (which jsut made him latch on ALL night, and not eat mugh during the day). Once i stopped the night feeds, he ate better, slept better, was less tired during the day and i was also a different person...
and yes, you need your hubby's support...
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axptguy38, you are absolutely right. I feel like i m in a jig jaw puzzle to figure out what are the bad sleeping habits to get rid of!
i had the greatest achievement last night, which however, i m not confident whether it is a one-off improvement or something better. i developed a plan that:
if bub wakes before 11pm, i will pat and sooth him to sleep for may be 1st 3 nights.
after 11pm, i will give him 150ml.
2am and 5am, i shall reduce to 30ml (a drastic drop from 100ml before, but my hubby thinks we can try that first and see whether it works for a speedy improvement).
but last night, bub woke around 10.30pm, i patted him and he slept well all the way till 2.45am!! he cried out loud, hence, i feed him. but i could see he wasn't hungry and stopped at 50ml. he slept all way till 6am! amazing!!
i tried to analyse what i have done differently. for one, i really tried patted him to sleep, rather than, feed him or give him pacifier immediately whenever he wakes. i really tried to get away with pacifier. i also increase his 5pm dinner little bit (but wasn't as much as one month back where he was so full that he didn't take any more milk at 7pm). i also served him half of avacado which i hear is very filling.
i m very excited about this great improvement! but at the back of my mind, i wonder whether it is just one odd night!
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woonwoonbee,
well done with last night.
let's see how it goes tonight....it's really up to you since you are the mum but if it were me, i would have fed him at 10.30pm and then settle him back to sleep and then avoid feeding him in the middle of the night. if he does wake up, you can do your patting or offer him some water. since he only took 50ml, i really suspect the middle of the night waking is really due to habit and not hunger. and since he woke up at 10.30pm, i think you should still look into giving him abit more milk at bedtime to see him through. it is important to that he eats well at this age but not at the expense of his bedtime milk.
as for the 6am wake-up, alot of babies come into light sleep during this time. if you can, get blackout curtains for his room, it might help to trick him to sleep until closer to 7am....:)
good luck with tonight
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agree with Wheelymate - do the 10.30-11 feed if you must, rather than the 2.30 one. I know it is much easier to give bottle at 2.30 than patt them for half an hour - but please try not to feed him and that time and just pat! ihard work for a few days but is worth it!
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Hi Wheelymate and Idsllvn, ok..your suggestion sounds reasonable. i think i will change my plan and do what you've suggested. hopefully, that will work! would you suggest that i wake him up at 11pm to feed, if he doesn't wake up by then? or wake for him to stir and wake naturally?
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If your baby is gaining weight appropriately, taking a well balanced diet of solids and receiving breastmilk or formula, he should be sleeping through the night. Increase the amount of the dream feed at 11 p.m. Offer water when he wakes for the other feeds as he may just be thirsty. Consider increasing amounts of solids or protein during the day.
Well Baby Clinic
Matilda International Hospital 2849 1500
Matilda Medical Centre 2537 8500
Hong Kong
http://www.matilda.org
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a-ha! just what i said - i should go and work at Matilda Hospital!
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Hi all..thx again for the valuable inputs. last night, i've increased 11pm dream feed to 150ml, though he only finished 130ml. he stirred at 4am, and i patted him. he didn't sleep well between 4am to 5am, though he didn't cry until 5am, he cries out loudly. i thought, may be he is really hungry. so i fed him only 60ml, but i could see he wasn't hungry and stopped him at 50ml. i think my bub is making great progress, and i hope after a few more nights, he will be able to drop all the night feeds (except 11pm is fine with us). you all have helped me to achieve this!
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oh ya..by the way, i increased slightly again for his solid at 5pm. but it looked like that really filled him up because he only took 30ml at 7pm and refuse further milk. i actualy then woke him up for a dream feed at 11pm. should i reduce his 5pm solid slightly in order for him to take a full feed at 7pm? is 7pm milk feed important to be a full feed, or 5pm full feed solid is sufficient without 7pm feed?
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Nice work woonwoonbee. It is pretty amazing how much you can actually affect patterns if you do it in a slow and well thought out manner.
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Kim11
18 yrs ago
It sounds like things are changing which is great. I would let baby eat as much solids as they want then do the feed at 11pm. Just watch the pattern over a few days and make sure they are getting enough milk over a 24 hour period. My daughter doesn't always have her full feed at 7pm depending on how her day was overall and what she eats at dinner. I have started giving her the feed at about 10:30 if she misses it becuase she is waking at 5:30am still.(But that is a habit and is a bit harder to change now)
Hope your weeks continue to get better
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Hi...things was looking good for the 1st 2 nights only, and ..... here it goes. actually, looking back, whenever i tried to change something, my bub always react positively in the 1st 2-3 days, after which, it always fall back to his own pattern again...sigh... for example, weaning off latching, weaning off night feeding...
ok..after receiving your advice, this is what happen:
1st night (Wed) - very good. 7pm last feed. stirred at 10.30am. patted and slept till 2.45am. drank only 50ml. slept till 6am.
2nd nite (thurs) - well. dream feed 11pm. stirred 4am. cried 5am (patted in between for one hr!) dream fed at 5am at 50ml. fully awake about 7am (ok).
3rd nite (fri) - can't remember. but stopped all night feeding. but i recall wasn't as good as 1st 2 nites. going downhill onwards.
4th nite (sat) - can't remember. but not very good. see below two days
5th nite (sun) - dream feed 11pm. stirring and crying every hour since 2am. fully awake at 5.45am cos no night feed since 11pm.
6th nite (mon) - dream feed 11pm. non-stop stirring 2-3am. finally gave in and fed at 3am 70ml. cried 4am. hubby carried just short few min and slept. half wake 6am. fed 70ml and becomes fully awake!
so as you can see, he was good for 1st 3 days. then, he seemed to wake every hour despite my patting and signing and humming. both of us are even sleep deprived, and i was (still am totally exhausted!!). i probably change plan to reduce night feeding gradually rather than totally off. sigh..i m lost again.
may be we can survive with 11pm feed (since hubby mostly not sleeping yet at that time), and then, one at 3or4or5am and then, 7am (awake already then), until he naturally wean off himself. sigh..not sure....
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"I would let baby eat as much solids as they want then do the feed at 11pm. "
This can be a bit of a problem. If they're completely sated before, they may not want the late night feed. Some testing is probably required.
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woonwoonbee, i found that any change took at least 2 wks, more like a month really for mine two to get used to. something else i have thought of - dont know if it suits you tho - we used night nanny when it was really bad.
What you could do is to get someone in for a couple of weeks to sleep-train. In HK there are a few agencies - am sure there are some in Singapore too. It is not cheap but, honestly, money very well spent!!
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Fho
18 yrs ago
Hi Idsllvn,
My 6 months old have sleep problem too and I would like to get him to sleeping clinic in HK, where do I find information for the clinics?
Thanks
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wounwounbee:
1. sort out daytime feeding..too much solids at dinner can make life miserable with a tummyache and get the milk drinking back on track. he should drink most of his milk during the day and with the biggest milk feed just before bed.
2. if he is still waking up out of habit despite feeding enough during the day, you might need controlled crying...i don't know enough about controlled crying to advise, you might need to seek professional help for that.
3. also, check how much is he sleeping in total during the day. too much daytime naps will obviously cause night wakings too.
lastly, agree with idsllvn, it takes weeks for these things to work - do not expect results in 1-2 days, if only it were that easy!
hang in there.
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hi hi..another update on my progress...
last posted:
"1st night (Wed) - very good. 7pm last feed. stirred at 10.30am. patted and slept till 2.45am. drank only 50ml. slept till 6am.
2nd nite (thurs) - well. dream feed 11pm. stirred 4am. cried 5am (patted in between for one hr!) dream fed at 5am at 50ml. fully awake about 7am (ok).
3rd nite (fri) - can't remember. but stopped all night feeding. but i recall wasn't as good as 1st 2 nites. going downhill onwards.
4th nite (sat) - can't remember. but not very good. see below two days
5th nite (sun) - dream feed 11pm. stirring and crying every hour since 2am. fully awake at 5.45am cos no night feed since 11pm.
6th nite (mon) - dream feed 11pm. non-stop stirring 2-3am. finally gave in and fed at 3am 70ml. cried 4am. hubby carried just short few min and slept. half wake 6am. fed 70ml and becomes fully awake!"
7th nite (tues) - can't remember
8th and 9th nite - 11pm-11.30pm dream feed. bub very much can now finish 150ml. sleep till 4am. gave 60ml. each time finished, he cried cos i think not enough. but he will go back to sleep very soon, but awake each time at 5am. why's that? this morning, he woke 5am and refused to go back to sleep, even though i gave him pacifier, which in all cases, he always ended up going back to sleep!
but one good thing, i think he now seems to skip the 2am feed. i have few good nites, few bad nights. Just like what Cara experienced "my one year old has 1 week of excellent nights and then 3 days of really poor nights". hopefully, this is part and parcel of the sleep training and that he eventually really drops the 2am feed totally. i guess i m now working on the 4-5am feed.
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Hurray..bub slept through the night last night for the very first time!! and he just turn exactly 9 months yesterday. ha... i dream feed him at 11pm, and he slept all the way till 6pm. i was in fact up at 3am, and on off all the way till 6am to peek at him, but he merely stirred and slept back! how wonderful! again..at this stage, i don't expect miracle that he is going to sleep thru forever from now on. my bet is one night feeding again tonight..and i take it this is parts and parcels of the night training and it definitely seems improving! i also have leave music on all nights in the last 3 nights. that seems to help him to sleep better!
HEAP HEAP HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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yay!!! good job, congratulations!! Now you have to get him off that 11 pm feed slowly and then you are away laughing!!
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sigh..back to sleepless nite again...i m soooo tired... bub didn't sleep well. last nite, fed at 12 midnight. (he only drank 80ml) .he stirred at 2am, cried out a bit. ignored. that goes on and off till 3am..we couldn't take it and fed at 3am. cried out a bit again at 5am. gave dummy to quiet him. cried out again 5.30am. gave dummy and ignored. he fully awake at 6am. that goes our night............. i m lost at what my plan supposed to be anymore........
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hi woonwoonbee,
you are not alone! i went to a sleep consultant here in HK (i'm sure they have something similar in singapore). i found it very helpful because even though i had read all the books i wanted to hear advice from an expert (face to face) and have her give me an exact plan that we could follow strictly (and something that is tailored exactly for my baby and his circumstances). anyway we did what the consultant said and bubs is cured after 3 nights!!! absolutely no crying at bed time or during the night. still wakes up 2 or 3 times at night (for the pacifier) but we are trying to train him to put it back himself. still waking at 6am but all in all this is MUCH better than where we were before which was me sleeping with him on the mattress on the floor after an hour of crying at 2am!!! good luck. hope things get better soon...
:)
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good news Sashimi Girl - am really happy the consultants helped! Like I said before - totally worth the money!
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