i read in another post from that there are baby sleep training services?? as in someone comes to your house for a couple of weeks to do sleep train baby. is this true and who/where are they? (in HK). i have the baby whisperer book and have always wished tracey hogg could come to my house!!
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To me it sounds like a big waste of money. Or if looked from the other way a great way to make money. I need to start a business. ;)
Seriously though, sleep training a baby isn't so much about skill as about persistence and patience. Some would argue it's also about earplugs. In any case a screaming baby is just about the most intrusive sound in the known universe.
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Nula
18 yrs ago
http://www.annerley.com.hk/SleepClinic.htm
Annerley has a service.
I went to a free government run sleep clinic for a day in Oz many years ago and it was well worth the time and effort.
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it is not a waste of money if you are at your wits end without sleep, axptguy. We had a night nanny and it was best spent money ever - kept me sane! We did not use the training specialist but I would if I had problems.
Yes S Girl - someone comes - as much as you want it - every night, 3-4 nights a week - for say 2 wks and does the training with the babe for you - use Annerly, as Nula said - they are great - but they are booked up, you might end up waiting a bit
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Fine, I stand corrected. But it certainly shouldn't be the first thing you try.
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yup well bubs is 9 months now and we've been at it for a good 3 months. but like i said, things keep changing with the separation anxiety etc. and yes, wits end is approaching as i work full time and i am VERY sleep deprived and have been since the birth! i looked at the annerley website but i got the feeling that they are just providing information to you - so it would be the same as reading those sleep training books??? (which i have done - baby whisperer is the method i chose). so are they actually hands on with the baby or do they just provide the theory???
also i am confused with the night nanny situation. do people with full time live-in helpers use night nannies? i have never allowed my helper to care for my baby at night time (as soon as i am home baby is with me). i don't want her to, not only because she is with bubs all day but also i need my time with bubs and am unwilling to sacrifice that time! anyway, i just ask because hubby suggested that our helper help with the night time care but i am hesitant.
sorry to be so long winded but also --- do the sleep training nurses do the sleep training FOR you or WITH you? ie are they up with bubs while you sleep or you are both up with bubs? don't get me wrong, i am happy either way, i just want bubs to learn to sleep!!!!
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Maybe if you told us the nightly routine, your behavior, your children's behavior, and so forth, we could offer some more pertinent advice. Right now you can't sleep and it's been going on for three months. That's a problem of course. If you give us more to work with we might be able to come up with some tips. Anyone with children has had periods when they don't sleep.
"Healthy Sleeping Habits, Happy Child" is another book you can look at.
"also i am confused with the night nanny situation. do people with full time live-in helpers use night nannies? i have never allowed my helper to care for my baby at night time (as soon as i am home baby is with me). i don't want her to, not only because she is with bubs all day but also i need my time with bubs and am unwilling to sacrifice that time! anyway, i just ask because hubby suggested that our helper help with the night time care but i am hesitant."
This is more of an employer condundrum. She already works 11-13 hours a day. Is it fair to ask for more hours? If you pay her more, maybe. But many helpers would probably be afraid of saying no. Many "local" employers wouldn't hesitate of course, and many helpers sleep in the same room as the children.
Of course, asking helper to babysit a couple of nights a week is different.
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hi S girls, right, let me go down your points:
- night nanny - used them as they are trained mid-wives, it was either a night nanny or me - not the helper, same feelings as you on that point;
- they way it works - you go to your room, close the door and that is it - the nanny takes over completely, hands the baby back to you in the morning;
- have not used the ones who do sleep training but know people who did - they are hands on, same as night nanny, they take over the baby for the night..
by the way, totally not relevant - asptguy38 - are you a guy or a girl? sometimes you say "my wife" and sometime you sound like the lady of the house!! confused... unless your guys are sharing the login name!! that would explain it! Just curious!! :)
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hi S girl, I have hired the services at Annerley when my little prince was 4 months old, he had colic and was impossible to put down. I had to literally cradle him to sleep. They will come to your apartment about twice a week to start, and you have to be with them during their visit. They train you to sleep train the baby. so it'ss not sleep training the baby literally. They will also provide u with a record sheet to record the hours that your LO is asleep.
i am with you on taking care of your baby in the night. I work as well and the moment I am home, my nanny stops. (she is not a live-in). I see it is important.
But my prince goes to bed early too, by 8pm. which leaves me time for dinner with my husband and some relaxation after.
what exactly is the problem with your LO?
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Have you looked at the info on Elizabeth Pantley's website?
Hope you find a solution that works for you and for your baby.
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ah, sorry Sashimi Girl, did not realise that they dont it themselves we used the agency in UK (did not move here tills babes were 5 months and a bit). so that is how it worked for us (as I mentioned earlier). That is how we survived I think and remained sane (tho some will argue that point). Call the agency and have a chat anyway - wont hurt, right?
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thank you all for your replies.... :)
the truth is i don't think bubs has any problem out of the ordinary. if anything - the problem is with me!!! i briefly spoke to annerley (receptionist) and she told me that at 9 months bubs starts testing his limits and tries to control you. and i KNOW that i am a push over!!! ha ha. it's just so hard to hear him cry like that and i know it's easier for some mothers to be disciplined than others. everyone is wired differently and i guess i'm just wired too soft!!! so bubs is running rings around me at the tender age of 9 months. oh dear... anyway, hubby is back tomorrow and is going to start the sleep training again and show bubs who is BOSS!
to answer all your questions about baby's behaviour/our behaviour - well it's textbook accidental parenting. rocking baby to sleep so of course he will cry when he wakes up cos he's not in my arms and so on and so on and so on...as everything snowballs from that. he's not hungry when he wakes cos he eats 3 good solid meals a day and drinks his milk (3 or 4 (7 oz) bottles). naps for 45 mins to 2 hours twice a day (not the same time every day cos his night time sleeping is messed up so he wakes in the morning at different times - between 5am and 7am)
lastly, when he suddenly started waking again at night (about 2 weeks ago) i noticed that he had also started getting attached to our helper who is with him all day. this is very upsetting for me and i am afraid that when he wakes at night he is looking for her which makes it harder for me or hubby to settle him...
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ah Idsllvn, was just about to ask you about that! well paying someone to sleep train my baby for me is the last last resort (and only because i work) but if they don't have that here i am just as happy with some professional advice. will def look into annerley. thanks. :)
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"the truth is i don't think bubs has any problem out of the ordinary. if anything - the problem is with me!!! i briefly spoke to annerley (receptionist) and she told me that at 9 months bubs starts testing his limits and tries to control you. and i KNOW that i am a push over!!! ha ha. it's just so hard to hear him cry like that and i know it's easier for some mothers to be disciplined than others. everyone is wired differently and i guess i'm just wired too soft!!! so bubs is running rings around me at the tender age of 9 months. oh dear... anyway, hubby is back tomorrow and is going to start the sleep training again and show bubs who is BOSS!"
Hearing your baby cry inconsolably is tough even for "tough" parents. The worst arguments I have ever had with my wife were discussions over whether we should let #1 cry 7 minutes or 8. Yech...
The important thing is to go through the problem, not around it. Face the fact that the baby will cry. Use a watch to actually check how long baby cries.
It's very very tough but you can do it. Believe me when I say that your sanity will thank you for it. And look at it this way. If you don't show who is boss now your life will become hell when baby becomes toddler, then child, then teenager and actually learns to manipulate you in more sophisticated ways. This is a good time to mention that the testing of limits never lets up. You're facing the "easy" stuff. Not belittling your problems. They are quite real and we didn't enjoy them when we were in the same situation. Just saying that if you solve the problems now your life will be easier later.
"astly, when he suddenly started waking again at night (about 2 weeks ago) i noticed that he had also started getting attached to our helper who is with him all day. this is very upsetting for me and i am afraid that when he wakes at night he is looking for her which makes it harder for me or hubby to settle him..."
A natural reaction from you. I think baby just wants anyone at that point. Babies have lots of love to give. Unless you're a total "absent parent", you will never be displaced in baby's heart. My wife works quite hard but she is still mommy, in other words the absolute favorite.
"by the way, totally not relevant - asptguy38 - are you a guy or a girl? sometimes you say "my wife" and sometime you sound like the lady of the house!! confused... :)"
I am both! I am a guy but I am a stay at home dad. Sorry about the confusion. :)
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to axptguy38 - nice! my husband's dream! tho, I dont think he quite knows what is involved - he is envisaging golf and G&Ts I suspect!
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Eddy
18 yrs ago
I work as a maternity nurse/night nurse with babies/children. I have done a few placements to sleep train children when parents don't know what to do anymore. I normally observe for one night and then try to correct the pattern. I stay with the baby/child and help them to sleep through. I normally work with the parents and helpers as the day naps also have a role in the way the child sleep pattern. Some parents rather give in than trying to resolve the problem as you need to be very patient for a few nights.
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i am no stranger to accidental parenting and babies crying at bedtime.
my #1, at about 3 months, i decided rocking at 7pm was something i refused to do anymore. 3 nights, he cried for about 15 mins...longest 15x3 mins of my life ever...i tried to take a shower, i tried to write cheques out for bills, anything to distract me.
with #2, i promised we would have no accidental parenting...it's been 6 weeks and i'm proud to say we've limited co-sleeping (NEVER WORKED, would wake up the sec i even tried to move an arm), dummy sucking and all the other bad stuff by the first month. but there is still a fair bit of crying at 7pm...very distressing, resulting in lots of tears(from me), "running" away from home while husband sits in to listen to the crying and settles baby on my behalf. but i have learnt that with this one, nothing i do seems to make him happy (more cuddles, more milk, more whatever) so i have no choice but to let him cry down abit every evening. some nights, no tears, most nights, about 10 mins, some bad nights, off and on for ages... IT IS BLOODY HARD and i am at this stage where i tell myself, NO MORE BABIES AFTER THIS. i think my husband wants to shake me at times and remind me that babies cry....
anyway, not that above can help to solve your problem but sashimi girl, just to let you know most of us have been there, done that (and many of us still not 100% past the night wakings stage). i have the luxury (of sorts depending how you feel about stay home parents) to not have to crawl out of bed to work after a night of baby crying so i personally agree with xpatguy that professionals are the last resort. but if you are working and for your own sanity, i think you do what you have to do and get someone in to help - good luck and hope it all works out!
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"IT IS BLOODY HARD and i am at this stage where i tell myself, NO MORE BABIES AFTER THIS. i think my husband wants to shake me at times and remind me that babies cry...."
It's worth remembering that these reactions you are having are hard wired deep into your brain. Comforting crying babies is a maternal instinct and it takes a strong woman to resist it.
"many of us still not 100% past the night wakings stage"
I think that takes many years. My wife stays up so late working nowadays, plus the expressing and the 5am feed, that she needs every minute of sleep. Sp I sleep in a mattress in the girls' room right now. That way I intercept most things. If we sleep in the same bed I can sleep through anything while she has some sort of "hearing babies" superpower that wakes her up. It'll get better once #2 is a bit older and they're 100% used to sleeping in the same room.
"i have the luxury (of sorts depending how you feel about stay home parents) to not have to crawl out of bed to work after a night of baby crying"
Quite true. However at least one of them will wake up before 0730 so it's not like we really get to sleep in anyway. I vaguely remember staying in bed until 9 on Saturdays.
"to axptguy38 - nice! my husband's dream! tho, I dont think he quite knows what is involved - he is envisaging golf and G&Ts I suspect!"
Lol! Well, a helper helps, but there's not a lot of golf and G&Ts no. Also the wife needs to have a "decent" job. I worked in the US and did decently well, but my wife's career eclipsed mine long ago so here we are.
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hi sashimi girl: i totally sympathise with you having to work and being seriosuly sleep deprived.
I've been and am also these days int he same situation as you.
my baby slept really well till around 4.5months and then all of a sudden started waking frequently and it was no fun.
this situation went on till he was about 8 months when hubby decided enough was enough and wanted to try the cry it out method/ferberization call it what you will, that all amounts to the same thing, leaving baby cry and 'learn' to fall asleep by himself.
We stuck with this for ten weeks. during the whole period i was more stressed than when baby had been waking often. After the initial few days when he cried for 2hrs at a time, later he would sometimes cry for 40minutes at a time. I dreaded the hour of putting baby to sleep every single day, totally hated my husband at one point and was often crying myself.
What people dont tell you about the CIO method is that it seems to work in the begining, but then there will so many things taht cause night waking later like teething, jet lag etc, fevers, colds, developmental stages and then you are often back to square one.
another problem: baby used to wake at 6.30 am for morning feed first ttwo mornings, then it was 6 am then it ws 5.45 ...... you get the idea. it's a lot harder to listen to them screaming their poor hearts out early in the morning, when you know that they have had some sleep, are probably hungry etc..
.
after ten weeks, id ecided enough was enough and we went with hogg's method of pu/pd.
for me it works, and when there are occasional hiccups due to travelling and sickness, teething etc, it's easier to soothe baby and get back on track. i dont dread bed time every single day.
As for baby being attached to helper, and happy with her, i say: thank your lucky stars. YOu would be sooo much more stressed if when you come home your baby clings to you and cries when he looks at the helper. it would mean he's not being well cared for. and you wouldnt want thant. Myhelper comes in 8am-6pm and when she goes home My 12 month old wants to go with her, but i take this as agood sign rather than get offended.
i know exactly how hard it is to work and have a bbay that wont sleep.
I just want to say, you need to relax and tell yourself NOT to be stressed by it.
If possible take a few days off. Like a friday and a monday so yoou have four days to work with your baby.
I've also had nights like you when i was too tired to doo anything and ended up sleeping with baby. Ofcourse it's better to avoid doing it, but in case it does happendon't beat yourself up about it. you're human.
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ahhhhh, thank you the goddess kali and everyone! i think it's just nice to know you are not alone. :) we are back on the PU/PD (except without the PU part) as he's too old for that. went to annerley for a consult and got some VERY good advice. :)
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"As for baby being attached to helper, and happy with her, i say: thank your lucky stars. YOu would be sooo much more stressed if when you come home your baby clings to you and cries when he looks at the helper."
Wise words.
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hi sashimi girl..i m going thru same thing as you. you may see my thread "sleep through the night". my bub is now 9 months old...i have tried about two weeks of sleep training myself with hubby i have one fortunate good nite of sleep thru from 11pm to 6am. but other than that...it hasn't been well. the last two days (weekend) hasn't been good as well.. both hubby and i are now even more sleep deprived than before. we both work!!! i m sooo tired.... zzzzzzzzz........ and we both headache since yesterday....from the lack of sleep... i feel so drain.........
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woonwoonbee...
i would get some help soon because you sound so tired...
just did a quick google of local help for your troubles:
http://www.birthandbeyond.com.sg/courselist.php?type=1&list=2
http://www.figi-uk.com/mainpg_sessions.html (look under sleep management)
good luck! i feel for you because it's 9 months already, time for baby to sleep better at night.
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annerley was 790 for one consultation. or you can get a package for 2700 or something like that which is quite pricey (check the website). the consultant gave us advice that was not based on ferber . but i don't know whether that was because i already told her that i wasn't keen to go down that route. her advice was more like the baby whisperer advice. anyways, i am also interested to know what her method of choice would have been if i did not tell her in advance what i was thinking.
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oh i'm sorry to hear that.... i really couldn't say for your situation. 2.5 year olds are very different beasts to 9 month olds so i have no idea what to do! i know that the baby whisperer has a book especially for toddlers though... i don't know what she (tracey hogg, the author) advises but all i can say is i am quite a fan of her techniques. worked for me and makes good sense. here is a link to the book... http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Baby-Whisperer-Toddlers-Tracy/dp/0345440803
did you ever watch supernanny? don't you wish she could come to your house?!
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mine are 20 months old and more often than not they wake up. sometimes they go down with just a pat, sometimes they dont. I am soo tired, that recently we have been letting them cry. And cry they do! (well, it does not help that there are two of them and they wake each other up) - sometimes they go on for hours - seriously. But am determined to let them - at this age (and certainly at 2.5 yrs) they know what they are doing...
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we are not doing anything wrong. it is more natural for babies to sleep with their parents. that's how our ancestors did it and most of the non-western world still does that. babies are absolutely 100% defenseless - they need care and protection when they are awake AND sleeping! so we are going against nature to train baby to sleep by itself... we don't have extended families here and we don't live in small huts where the whole family sleeps together. somewhere along the way someone decided that poor little babies need to be independent and not need us at night time!!! i guess i am in the co-sleeping camp. but i don't do it.... *sigh*... i let people tell me that it is bad!
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The choice is yours Sashimi Girl. I understand co-sleeping, but I often find that the parents aren't clear about the long term consequences. So long as you know what you're getting into, go for it.
You did answer your own "question" though. Your typical western family does not have the "extended family" feature. So co-sleeping is not very practical. As always, society evolves. Whether this particular development is a good thing or not is an open question.
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i have no objections to co-sleeping per se...it's a lovely feeling and would probably be more likely to do it if my kid is also able to sleep independently....that is, we can sleep together but he's also happy to sleep without me.
but what i find is that when you do co-sleep, the kid can't seem to sleep independently...at least from my personal experience, you move an arm or breathe abit too heavily and they are awake.
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oh totally could not do it! when (once in a million years) one of ours is sick and we take her to bed with us - total hell - forget it, she is fine but we dont get even 5 min sleep... No way.... I really like my sleep...:)
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