My husband, myself and our two children live in London and my husband has been offered a fantastic job in HK. He is about to be offered a package and I'm not sure where to start on the cost of living to be able to judge whether the package is good or not. My children are aged 8 and 7 (yr2 and yr4) As I am completely unfamiliar with areas on the Island and surrounding where do I start?
We live in Teddington South West London at the moment which is wonderful and all love the outdoors and sport. Schools, fees areas to live????Where we live and where the kids go to school is going to be so crucial I'm really worried about getting it wrong. They all seem to vary so much in price... How far in advance would I have to put my kids names down to start this September?
Please can someone advise me where to start. Thank you
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There are a lot of different areas in HK to live and the area you live generally decides the school your children will go to. Is commuting an issue for your husband ? Sai Kung and Clearwater bay have great outdoor lifestyles and both are in catchment areas for ESF schools (am assuming you would be looking at ESF schools as you are coming from the UK) Discovery Bay also offers a great lifestyle but as it doesn't have cars your husband would need to commute by ferry or train (DB has 2 schools that your children could attend) On the island the South side is also a very nice area to live.
A lot of schools will have waiting lists at the moment as they are all usually full, so it is important that you get their names down asap. Contact ESF head office directly for more information. Alternatively there is an Australian International School and also 2 schools which follow American syllabi if you weren't thinking of ESF.
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Is your husband's company offering cross-cultural training? This can be extremely useful. Before we moved we had two days, including "recon" from someone who had lived here. We could bombard that person with questions. When we arrived, we got two days of "local recon", with an expat showing us around.
You should also prepare yourself for the fact that it takes around 1-2 weeks to find a place to live once you get here, then 1-2 months to actually move in. During this time you would normally be living in a serviced apartment, often at HK Parkview.
Cost of living: Well it depends on what kind of package you get. In any case I'm sure you already understand that you'll probably have less area than in SW London if you want to live on the Island.
I would say that if you want a nice 3-4 bedroom with facilities (pool/playground...) on the South Side of the Island (Stanley, Repulse Bay, Red Hill) or on the Peak you're looking at 90-150k Honkies per month. Those are the most posh areas. Pok Fu Lam and Midlevels (two other "expat areas") will be a bit less.
HK Island is rather small and the private schools all have bus service. So if you were living on the Island and the school as well, normally you'd be looking at 15-20 minutes of bus each way unless you live right by the school.
Expats typically live on the Island. However if you love the outdoors perhaps the New Territories are more your thing. More greenery, much more space for your money, but also a much longer commute.
I don't know a lot about schools since my kids are still too young. However there are plenty of good schools and compared to private schools in the Northeastern US prices are pretty low. BTW many expat packages pay for school if your kids are older than 5. Perhaps something to negotiate?
Here are some of the schools my neighbors send their kids to. I'm sure others can add to the list. I haven't heard bad things about any of these. Just good feedback.
- English Schools Foundation http://www.esf.edu.hk/index.aspx
- Canadian International School http://www.cdnis.edu.hk/
- French International School (also has education in English) http://www.fis.edu.hk/
- Hong Kong International School (American) http://www.hkis.edu.hk/
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I'd think carefully about switching to a North American education system if you have plans to return to the UK. ESF has a school in Clearwater Bay, amongst others, if you do not want to live on HK Island (plenty of expats in Clearwater Bay/Sai Kung). I'd add German Swiss International School to the list if you want to stick to a British based curriculum (www.gsis.edu.hk). Fees are lower than UK private schools (about £7K pa). Most schools are selective, so the waiting list is not the issue that you first assume, your children need to do some assessments. It is slightly tougher for years 2 and 4 than reception because you need people to leave for places to free up. The exception to this is Kellet (http://www.kellettschool.com/), another British school, in which entry is waiting list and debenture driven.
There's plenty of greenery on the south side, but not a lot of open spaces. None of the parks etc. that you're used to. Agree with the above; Repulse Bay, Stanley, Tai Tam and Redhill are worth a look, as are Shouson Hill and Deepwater Bay. No big gardens though, if youre lucky you might get enough room for a swing and a slide.
Once the move is a real possibility, I'd suggest a few days looking at as many schools and residential areas as possible, just to get a feel for things. We never had cross-cultural training and found the move very easy. A good relocation agent will make all the difference. PM me if you need any specific recommendations. Good luck.
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cd
18 yrs ago
Disagree with xpatguy, most expats do not typically live on the Island. Sai Kung and Clearwater Bay have a very big expat community, mainly, Brits, German,Dutch, Aussies and Kiwis. ESF have a very good primary school in Clearwater Bay. House prices have gone up a huge amount in the last 2 years, try and get a housing allowance in your package of at least 60K. You can get some nice places for less, but the more your allowance the wider your choice. A lot of houses out this way have at least enough garden for table and chairs, and bbqs, some have larger gardens often with shared pools. Nice beach, lots of good hill walking, a few areas for bike riding, nice restaurants and shops. A nice lifestyle for the family, more laid back than other areas of HK.
Suggest you get into a serviced apartment and spend a few weeks looking around to find which area would suit you best. But you can't normally but the childrens name down for a school until you have an address.
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Ed
18 yrs ago
These companies all have experienced relocation managers who can assist with answering questions http://www.asiaxpat.com/movingquote/
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"Disagree with xpatguy, most expats do not typically live on the Island. "
I was speculating so fair enough. I would actually be curious about the real breakdown.
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A nice non selective english curriculum based school is in Hong Lok Yuen. One of the few that have a grass playing field.
http://www.hlyis.edu.hk/
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We've put our son's name on the waiting list at HKIS but apparently it's a pretty long one. He's going to be 9 - so if anyone out there has a similar experience they can share, I'd be thrilled to hear about it...
Someone suggested us looking into the ESF schools, but as some posters above mentioned, they have a British curriculum so I don't think my son can fit in....? Any other really great schools that other parents want to rave about...? :)
Our rent allowance is 60 -70K - we are a family of 3. Used to spacious living (right now in a house about 3,700 sf, small yard but facing park) - guess we better get real and not hope for that huh? Would prefer to live on the island. Will consider supplementing the rent somewhat if we really like something, but not too much. Hope we can find something decent?
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Just realized that I may have somewhat 'hijacked' Gigglepants' original post. Sorry - I'll try to create my own post after this...... :(
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"Someone suggested us looking into the ESF schools, but as some posters above mentioned, they have a British curriculum so I don't think my son can fit in....? Any other really great schools that other parents want to rave about...? :)"
I wouldn't worry too much about compatibility. Maybe I'm a hopeless optimist but kids adapt. It may take a term or so but they'll get there. I went from French School, to an English "Public" School (i.e. private) to Swedish School to International School before I graduated and went to Uni. Were there challenges? Sure. But nothing kept me from doing better academically than most of my classmates. The quality of the private schools in HK is on average very good. No matter what the exact curriculum they follow, most likely your kids will be ahead or at least level if and when they go back. They might have a few gaps compared to their peers due to idiosyncrasies of the respective systems, but those can be quickly filled in.
"Our rent allowance is 60 -70K - we are a family of 3. Used to spacious living (right now in a house about 3,700 sf, small yard but facing park) - guess we better get real and not hope for that huh? Would prefer to live on the island. Will consider supplementing the rent somewhat if we really like something, but not too much. Hope we can find something decent?"
I'm going to make it worse and tell you that you will also have a helper's room taking up a little space. ;) If you want to live on the island, it will be less than 3000 sq. ft unless perhaps you're way out in Red Hill/Tai Tam. I wouldn't bother supplementing the rent. The cost of living is high enough. You will find something nice. It will just be a different definition of "nice" to what you are used to. ;)
Look on the bright side though. We have less space in the house but the pool and playground are great. Our kids always have someone to play with "right next door". No need to drive to playdates or anything like that. My point is that there are advantages to living in close proximity to others.
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Thank you so much for all your comments especially Caroline, axptguy38, southside and cd - so so useful. I am now going to research some of the areas you've mentioned and look in to the schools. Knowing that the most posh expat areas are around 90 - 150k HK is great - I now have a bench mark to work with. Cd I presume you are talking of Sai Kung and Clearwater Bay which sound great?
How long does it take to commute from the southside of the island or the New Territories??? Mind, it takes an 1hr 20 mins to commute from Teddington in to town - it must be better than that surely....and probably a nicer journey??
How much do you allow for a helper and is it usual that they cook or live in?? Husband will be pleased - will get his shirts ironed for him haha
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"How long does it take to commute from the southside of the island or the New Territories??? "
Our neighbor commutes from Repulse Bay to Shenzen every day. Takes about 2 hours each way. So depending on where in NT and the exact time you can probably figure 1-2 hours. If you leave the south side before 7 traffic is not bad at all. You can make Central in 10-12 minutes.
"How much do you allow for a helper and is it usual that they cook or live in?? Husband will be pleased - will get his shirts ironed for him haha"
Minimum wage is around 3250/month I believe (plus the levy which is 300/month IIRC). However most ppl I know pay more, in the 4-5k range plus perhaps a 500-700 food allowance. If you have a house, your helper would typically live in. In fact most larger places will have a helper's room. Some are great cooks, some are not. If that's important to you, definitely bring it up with the agency and ask during the interview. Ours knows how to cook western, Indian, Chinese, Thai. Fantastic.
A good helper does more than iron shirts. ;) Consider that they typically work 11-13 hours a day, 6 days a week. We try to make ours stop in the evening, but she'll just say "yes yes, I will stop, but right now let me finish this" with a joking "go away and let me work, you silly person" tone. Our kids absolutely adore her and after 6 months we don't know how we managed without her. Hard working, good tempered, great sense of humor. But also self-effacing, non-intrusive, even "stealthy" when appropriate. But I digress. ;)
Treat your helper nicely, encourage her initiative and allow her to take responsibility. So many people don't give any guidance and then complain that their helper is no good. These girls/ladies are typically very hard working. But they can't read minds. Ok rant over.
You can also give perks like an old computer so she can chat with her family. Even a nice rug and bedspread for her room will make her feel welcome.
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cd
18 yrs ago
To Giggle pants. Commute to where? I live in the middle bwtween Sai Kung and Clearwater Bay, I can drive to central in 30-35 mins. On public it can be done in under an hour. The drive from say Tai Tam to Central could take over 30 mins too, especially if you get stuck behind a lorry or bus.
To It girl, there are large places in your budget if you look round, our rent has just gone up to $57,500 for 3000sf, with garden and shared pool.
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hi cd - wow, garden and shared pool? and that spacious?
would it be ok to tell me the name of this development..? and are there any 'downsides' to where you are? probably not coz you sound contented. i'm wondering if it would work for us if our son goes to school where repulse bay is.
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"i'm wondering if it would work for us if our son goes to school where repulse bay is."
That's quite a ways actually. Depends on how far you want your son to commute every day.
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To ItGirl, we live in Clearwater Bay and to get to our friends' house in Repulse Bay it takes about 45 minutes one way, and that is if there is not a lot of traffic. I do understand that HKIS has bus service though.
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Yeah so basically it depends on when the bus service goes. If it's during rush hour it might take much longer. I'm sure the school would know if you call them.
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just to add my two cents worth... I have lived in HK for 14 years. Have 4 kids. Spent 13 years living on HK Island and sent my kids to Canadian International School which was a 10 minute commute from our apartment. Got tired of lack of space, no outdoor area and pollution on the Island and moved out to Sai Kung last October. BEST THING we ever did - only wish we had done it sooner. We live in a 6 bedroomed, 3 storey house with small garden and rooftop. We have clear air, green views and peace and quiet. The cons: the commute which is a 40 minute drive from Sai Kung to Aberdeen every day - by UK standards this is not considered a big deal. It is a lovely scenic drive through the country, along coast road and across the harbour. I do leave early morning so hardly any traffic. The communte will be longer in rush hours. My two teenage sons have no difficulty taking public transfer to/from our place although I do advise that if you live in this area you really need to drive (or have a driver!). Best value for money as far as I am concerned.
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Wow, 60k housing allowance! -if only!
We're moving to HK in a few weeks and have a 29k allowance to house ourselves with! You'll most deffinately be able to find something decent so long as you don't expect to rub shoulders with the eschelons of society!
A friend in HK (mum, dad, 2 kids) don't even have a housing allowance with his package and I think his sallary is about 45k. They make is work just fine so you needent worry too much about the allowance!
As for the schooling, I can't help you sorry. Our son is only just 1 so we haven't started thinking about that yet.
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Well, adele78, it all depends on what you are used to. In HK you will likely live "smaller" than in many other places and it's good to know that your money won't go as far as in suburban Atlanta.
Housing allowance of x Honkies is fine as long as you know what to expect.
If you are used to having a 2000-2500 sq.ft. house with a garden, then 60k is not a lot if you expect to live on the Island.
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We just moved to Hong Lok Yuen, New Territories from Southside. I took me a while to make that decision to move away from the Island but now I love it. It's a development of detached or semi detached house and all have their own garden, some even a pool. It takes about 30 min to Central, they got an excellent school - walking distance from all houses www.hlyis.edu.hk Many expats are living here and it's easy to make friends.
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axptguy38, we're simple kinda folk! (and please excuse the fact I didn't proofread my earlier post!) We currently live in a '57sqm tvåa' or to you others who don't get Swedish, a one bedroom apartment measuring about 620sqf with an active and inquisitive 1 year old so ANYTHING will be an upgrade!
For our 29k a month, we can afford a reasonably newly rennovated 3br ap. in DB around 1100 to 1400sqf.
I've found a few brilliant looking townhouses/duplexes with gardens or large terraces in DB at around 60k that we would snap up in a second if the finances allowed but alas, 29 is all we have!
Best of luck in your search. PM me if you need some good realestate resources.
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"axptguy38, we're simple kinda folk! (and please excuse the fact I didn't proofread my earlier post!) We currently live in a '57sqm tvåa' or to you others who don't get Swedish, a one bedroom apartment measuring about 620sqf with an active and inquisitive 1 year old so ANYTHING will be an upgrade!"
Sorry. I wasn't trying to imply anything. Simply giving a yardstick ("tumregel" for you ;) )
If you are used to that kind of space, HK should be no problem. We used to live in on 88 sq.mt. in Stockholm. But our previous place was a good 250 sq.mt. with a big garden so we felt a bit cramped in the beginning, especially with all the stairs and the helper's room taking up space. That all passed quickly though. It's all about avoiding clutter. :)
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ltxhk
18 yrs ago
Adele, you could also look on South Lantau for some nice village HOUSES. About $18000 for renovated 1400 sq ft, or $30000 for the whole block about 2100 sq ft. More and more expats living there, especially pilots. Very different environment than DB since it is natural and unplanned.
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I used to love going over there for the weekend, but must admit being a ferry ride away from the city used to drive me a little bit potty back then, though being much older, i think its something I can handle now. If I had kids its probably where I would end up.
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Sorry to have taken over this thread but perhaps there's something in it for gigglepants too.
We've looked at Mui wo and passed through Chung sha and they do have their charms but we fear that feeling isolated. I heard CS has a big South African population. We are aware that rental agreements are usually for 2 years but we hope to even think about having a couple of short term furnished rentals in a few different places to get a feel for different areas. We'd also thought about Sai Kung but then there's the commute to the airport for the man. it would only be a problem in the beginning though as for the 1st 3 months he's at the airport every day for his conversions, company introduction and type rating. After that he only needs to go to the airport 3 times per month and home 3 times per month so it would work just fine. Tung Chung would sound like an obvious choise for its proximity and low rental rates but it's also got the worst air quality of all of HK and that's saying something...hmmm
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I'm just fine here - learning a lot from all your comments....the more I here about areas before we get to HK the better. I had a rough idea that I like the sound of Clearwater Bay - however just heard that the primary school wasn't good but improving now with new head??? I plan on speaking to esf next week as the more i read the more I'm beginning to worry that my kids wont get in to a school for ages. If I put my kids names down at a few schools now am I likely to get a place for the beginning of new term in August?? If we lived in Clearwater Bay what Primary school is doable?
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"If we lived in Clearwater Bay what Primary school is doable?"
As I understand it, there are kids from there who go to schools all over the Island. It's a question of how much time you want them to spend on the bus. Also playdate proximity issues.
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Yes...the playdate proximity issue.... that would be somewhat important to us as we only have one child, and he gets plenty of playdates from our current neighborhood...
Want so much to explore the possibility of Clearwater Bay, but am so afraid of chronic, bad commutes! My son takes a fairly long bus ride to school as it is now though, really don't know where to look still! Mentioned that the rent allowance is actually from 60 TO 70K, will we fair better if it's the top end?
Getting very useful tips on this thread regarding other possible schools to look into, though we have applied to HKIS quite some months ago, and now even the company has put in an application to pay the debenture (which happens to be fully subscribed! We've been told the corporate list is quite fluid and we are on the list to enter it as the positions open up) Can you believe the state of getting school places in HK? It's like war.... :( Help if you have good tips!
This seems like its going to be a faily stressful move.....
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"Mentioned that the rent allowance is actually from 60 TO 70K, will we fair better if it's the top end? "
10k extra is never a bad thing. But it's not like those 10k will make an enormous difference in what you can afford.
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cd
18 yrs ago
To Giggle pants,
Clearwater Bay is a very good school. 10 years ago it didn't have a good reputation, but that has totally changed. The staff and kids are excellent, and the school has a really nice friendly atmosphere. It is one of the first ESF schools to switch to the PYP, and is one of the first 2 primary schools to awitch to daily Mandarin lessons. I originally switched one of my kids there from the International system, and it was the best choice we ever did. Still have 2 kids at the school and they love it.
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