Posted by
solomani
18 yrs ago
Hi all,
Can anyone tell me of a website that lists costs of basic goods in HK? Or can someone tell me the aprox cost of the following items in HK:
Loaf of Bread
1 litre of milk
How much do people budget for utilities (electricity, gas etc) and groceries a month?
Thanks in advance.
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½ a loaf (that's the size of the package) of bread is 10-15 at Wellcome. 1 litre of milk is from 10 to 25 depending on brand, with the occasional "ultra organic made from harmonious cows listening to Mozart" for 60+ (not making this up, except for the Mozart).
Electricity: 1500-2000 in winter. 3000-4000 in summer (A/C) for a 2250 townhouse with ceiling fans. Gas is 500 ish a month.
Groceries: Around 10k a month for 2 adults + 2 young kids. We do buy a lot of organic. Groceries at Wellcome + Aussie Organics with the occasional trip to Great and CitySuper for specialty items. Previous threads have thrown out figures anywhere from around 3k to 15k.
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Thanks for the quick reply AXPTGUY.
Seperate question: how does the HK pension work for foreigners? Does it get payed out to you when you leave the country?
What should I expect to be covered by things like the company health fund - my whole family? dental? optical? Doctor visits? etc?
Thanks.
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We have what is called an MPF or Mandatory Provident fund where you pay either 5% of your monthly salary or HK$1,000 a month which ever is lower (cant remember exactly but that is all I paid and HK$1,000 is lower than 5% of my salary) and your employer contributes a similar amount. Once you leave Hong Kong, you make a declaration to the Hong Kong Government that you are leaving permanently get it notarised sign the providers forms and you get given your MPF back. If you already have an investment fund, then you can be exempt from the MPF (which i only found out later)
As for your insurance coverage, it really depends on the type of package you are going to receive, if you are taking an expat package family coverage is usual, if you are an overseas citizen just taking a local job on local terms, it is unusual, but it also depends on your seniority. If you are a senior guy then it is not unusual for your family to also receive coverage. Some companies will also extend coverage to your entire family no matter what your position, it really depends on your employer.
You should get dental optical and doctors visits, but again it depends on you employer. If it is a multinational, then it is quite likely.
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aemom
18 yrs ago
You can check prices yourself at the websites of our two local grocery store chains:
http://www1.parknshop.com/WebShop/Home.do
http://www.wellcome.com.hk/
Kwiksure, one of the sponsors of this forum, would be able to give you a medical insurance quote or you could check different HK insurers online.
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solomani, just to answer your question: I don't really know since we are not employed by a Hong Kong entity.
As a general rule, we have found most things except labor and transport (public) to be more expensive than in the Northeastern US.
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axptguy38 if you are employed in Hong Kong and pay taxes here don't you have to pay MPF ?? or are you referring to health insurance.??
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PPatio,
Where are the Das Gute bread shops, please?
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DB, not sure about axptguy, or rather his wife, but my husband is employed by UK entity here so, no, no taxes here, sadly, they are paid in UK, and he does not have to do the MPF. We know quite a few people who are employed in a similar way here in HK.
I on the other hand do exactly as you mentioned in you note - $1,000 per month...
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Very true axptguy38! But housing / rents are also much more expensive here.
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"axptguy38 if you are employed in Hong Kong and pay taxes here don't you have to pay MPF ?? or are you referring to health insurance.??"
We are in the situation that Idsllvn describes.
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So basically that makes sense if you are a US citizen because you would have to pay tax in both domiciles and being paid in the US eliminates one, but if you're husband is paid in the UK and I assume a British citizen, he has to pay probably double the tax he would have to, had he been paid in Hong Kong, which is where he lives. That doesn't sound very fair.
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He wouldn't have to pay double the tax. Most tax authorities just need you to pay in one country (where the money is earned). You can then get the other taxes waived.
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If he is on a decent salary, his UK tax rate will be more than double what it is in Hong Kong, which is why I say he has to pay double the tax. If he is earning more than US$70,000 PA then its 40% and it doesn't sound very fair on the employers part, when he could be paying 15% in Hong Kong where he lives, works and whose public goods and services he is actually consuming.
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yes, DB is completely right - basically instead of 15% he pays 40%. Totally unfair! They do argue that we get the "tax equalisation" by getting our rent paid, blah, blah... And, yep! quite a few people we know are in the same boat. I was hired locally (even thought i was on secondment from London office) - so I pay local taxes..
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That is day light robbery!!! I'd rather pay the rent and decide exactly how my money is getting spent.
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the trouble is I dont think we could afford our rent ourselves to be honest with you!! guess would have lived in a smaller place somewhere! nevermind! you gain some, you lose some! :)
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sxc
18 yrs ago
Well there's ups and downs to being employed locally or as an expat. If you are employed locally, then you will get the exchange rate hit when repatriating funds back home - this could go either way. If the exchange rate was the same as when I came to HK, then I would be earning double in AUD my home currency. If it wasn't for promotions and rises, then I would be behind.
But one of the big benefits for being in HK is the low tax rate.
On the other hand, as an expat, you get a basket of other benefits...so its horses for courses...
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well basic economic theory suggests that cash grants are better than subsidies when it comes to individuals well being but that is cetris paribas. What I don't understand is, how does one get a work visa and then not pay tax. I know immigration department and Inland Revenue are separate, but if you get a work visa, the individual will be obviously be living in Hong Kong and consuming its public goods, you would think that the Govt would take issue with companies who pay employee salaries outside of the SAR.
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What would be the logic of a company doing that? whats the advantage?
To add context to my original quesiton:
SXC I live in Australia and have been offered a job in HK as a local hire. I earn pretty good money in Australia and the HK company will be matching my wage. I of course will be pushing for more as matching pays for a more senior position doesn't sound right to me. Especially with such a strong AUD and decreasing tax rates here in AU.
Thus my question about cost of goods. This is about the only area I cant easily calculate for. Sure tax rates are lower in HK but I don't pay rent in AU nor have a mortgage and the equivalent of an AU public school education in HK (Australia school) costs about 87k/year. While here its free.
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it is not exactly free, i assume you have a mortgage free property (as you dont have morgage and dont pay rent) - unless you live with your parents. In this case, if you have your property, presumably you are going to rent it out right and make money on it - so there is your added benefit as well.
If you have to pay rent in HK yourlself - then, yes, you are no better off, but if your company pays in that case you get the extra cash coming in from your rented our house...
As for kids education costs, most expats get that as part of the package - so make sure to insist on that.
To be honest with you - we are not financially better off now (we moved from UK) at all when it comes to actual cash. But, the main attaraction for us was the childcare - in London half of my salary (if not more) would have gone to a nanny... here it is damn cheap... makes a serious amount of difference to us..
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sxc
18 yrs ago
It all comes down to individual circumstance. If you are on a local package with a family, it makes it harder to justify the move due to educational costs.
With lower australian tax rates, it does make australia slightly more advantageous, but you are never going to get as low as Hong Kong. Also, if you weren't aware there is a tax benefit in that you can effectively tax deduct your rental if your company prepares your annual tax statement correctly (equivalent of group certificate). So you should ask your employer about that.
But prima facie, if I was moving to HK and wasn't getting a pay rise, even with the tax benefit of HK taken into account, I wouldn't think it's a very good deal.
As for the original question, if you insist on eating exactly the same foods you had in Australia, it is going to be more expensive. But if you are happy to try the meat from China, eat local vegetables, drink UHT milk then the price of things are not too bad. As for eating out, a glass of standard table wine can be anywhere between $50-$80, no BYO here unless you pay a lot of corkage, and a good quality western meal can cost $300-$500/head. If you go to local cuisine restaurants, it will cost anywhere from $150-$300. Just like anywhere, there is cheap and there is expensive.
For supermarket goods, as suggested earlier, go to the wellcome or parknshop websites.
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I think that rental tax loophole is being gradually phased out, I read something in the Standard to that effect.
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sxc
18 yrs ago
"I think that rental tax loophole is being gradually phased out, I read something in the Standard to that effect."
Really? I don't recall that mentioned in the last budget, and that would be quite a major change.
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not true about BYO sxc by the way - most Private Kitchens do not charge anything or something like $10 per bottle..
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I definitely read something in the Standard to that effect, I cant remember the specifics though, whether employers themselves were becoming more reticent to allow employees to exploit it, or whether it was a government mandated change. I know a lot of people it would effect.
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ldsllvn,
I sold my house in expectations of buying another and I didnt have a mortgage on that house. So its all sitting in the bank. And any new house I buy will be covered by the money made selling the original. So no mortgage and no rent for now.
But that's a good point. If I go to HK I wont have to buy a house here and that money will be earning interest while I am away effectively increasing my salary.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll get our grocery list and compare it to the online stores.
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sxc
18 yrs ago
Probably in the current state of the market 7% pa on cash in the bank is better than property returns in Australia. But be careful that you don't lose out if the market in Australia moves up suddenly. You don't want to end up homeless when you move back to Australia.
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Yep SXC, got it covered (as much as you can have these things covered). You can get about 8% on money here these days. And by all indications houses will continue to slowly go down (slowly!). Wouldnt expect another boom for a few years yet.
For those interested in the current state of Australian property market:
http://jenman.com.au/news_subscriber_item.php?id=17&Section=Reports
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"To be honest with you - we are not financially better off now (we moved from UK) at all when it comes to actual cash. But, the main attaraction for us was the childcare - in London half of my salary (if not more) would have gone to a nanny... here it is damn cheap... makes a serious amount of difference to us.."
Same here. We are a bit better off but not a huge amount. Our main savings apart from childcare is not spending loads on renovating our house each year. ;)
"As for the original question, if you insist on eating exactly the same foods you had in Australia, it is going to be more expensive. But if you are happy to try the meat from China, eat local vegetables, drink UHT milk then the price of things are not too bad."
Sure, but if we ate all the good organic stuff in the US, why would we want to stop when we got here?
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