Hi, I'm hiring in HK and need your input please:
(1) Saw a thread a few days ago about fake degrees (can't find it now) - how common are they? Any tips to catch these people out?
(2) What's your experience working with locals?
(If you think your answer may offend, please msg me. I'd like the unvarnished truth.)
Thanks!
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I know the thread you are referring to, its been deleted. They aren't common at all, at least not in my experience, but then if someone possessed a fake degree they wouldn't tell me. The only tip I can think for catching them out, is if you have doubt asking for a transcript, do an internet check if you are not familiar with the university and check whether it is accredited. I mean you can usually tell UK universities are kosher fairly easily but there are lots of smaller US universities which you may not be familiar with, check whether it was accredited, and if you have real doubt call the university and check the candidates transcript.
Working with locals is fine.
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Again I second DB. I dont think faking is common here. And I think so too if in doubts call the uni n check. "Working with locals is fine"... DB, you are being humble and reserved (^-^). It really depends.. if you ask NETs, most of them wl say Hong Kong teachers are crazy - in the sense of long meetings and long working hours etc. But in general, working with locals is ok but I seldom see them mixing (gweilos + locals) with each other after work. I am a local so mine is a local's point of view.
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"(2) What's your experience working with locals?"
Working with locals is not like working with Westerners. The cultural and societal backgrounds are completely different. There's a difference when going to any new culture but for a typical English speaking Westerner the Chinese are almost from another planet behaviorally.
This doesn't mean it's all frustration and annoyance. Far from it. It's just very different.
BTW about long hours. I find this to be a bit of a myth. HKers often work late at night but typically they get in late in the morning and take a long lunch. All in all it adds up to about the same as your typical driven office worker in the US or the UK. Not that HKers don't work hard, just that you have to look beyond the late nights.
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I guess I have lived here all my life and I am so used to local culture that I don't really differentiate or give it a second thought. I mean it is odd when you go out to the obligatory office dim sum meal and you are forced to eat chickens feet, obviously something like that wouldnt happen if you were in an office in the West. But I am so used to it, I really think nothing of it. One thing that doesn't seem to happen is after work drinks. Local office workers, i.e. those educated in Hong Kong for the most don't seem to either feel it is appropriate or have the desire to socialise with expat colleagues particularly superiors outside of the office or office related functions (I've tried many a time at various offices I have worked in). Another thing I find is sometimes you have to dig to get to the root of an issue. They dont seem to keen on vocalising any problems they may be having, preferring to suffer in silence. Whether that is a cultural thing due to loss of face at admitting there is a problem, or whether it is just the experience I have had, I don't know.
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Other than the fact that having one means your earning potential is exponentially increased, I mean how many graduates of HK Polytechnic, Baptist College or Lingnan do you see working with you at Mcdonalds.
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Thanks all -
(1) Checking with schools takes too much time - I try to catch out people by asking them about various professors, football, school traditions, notable streets/restaurants, etc, since I know the score re: top US and UK schools. But I've found that some HK applicants from these schools can't answer these questions well, plus the fake degrees thread, so I'm merely wondering...
(2) I've found local employees to be great instruction-followers; they'd make wonderful legal assistants. But they are lacking in the initiative/creativity dept in my very limited experience. So I'm just checking if you guys have the same problems?
About socialising - I've found local female employees to be quite friendly. Although this is appreciated, I'd prefer unfriendly colleagues who think outside the box any day.
Looks like I'll have to turn to expats, which is disappointing.
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ppatio, did you pick up the wrong thread?
axptguy38, I dont mean at all long hours = productive and efficient, in fact it is the opposite. It is a very bad habit i wld say. I am running a small office so our norm is "finish your breakfast and be at your desk by 8:45 and pls leave at 18:00".
DB, since you mentioned about eating... I found it hard to put up (even as a local myself) with people having breakfast at their desks even after 9:00. It is quite a hk habit, isnt it.
"They dont seem to keen on vocalising any problems they may be having, preferring to suffer in silence". Totally agree with you. I wld say it is a cultural thing as we are not trained to speak up at schools so gradually it becomes a habit of keeping things all to yourselves.
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patio you must be in a bad mood or your understanding of hk and its people is limited.
The universites you mentioned that used to be tertiary - hk simply followed the trend at the time in the UK. So now that you know this, would you say local UK universities aresh*t?
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ltxhk
18 yrs ago
Some of the local universities try to develop more independent and creative thinkers than the others. If you are looking for higher end candidates, consider HKU, CU, and HKUST ...... and ask to see their documents and transcripts.
Educational documents are such a part of the interview process that most candidates have them on hand. I would not hire a candidate from a US institution unless they could present the diploma AND transcript. We hire both locally and overseas educated and find both systems have their strengths. You need to know what traits you are looking for and then match them to local or overseas university background.
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Traditionally, Hong Kong people go to bed very, very late. This goes back to the days when air conditioning was virtually unknown, and most people lived in very small, very crowded flats, in which it was impossible to get any sleep at all until the early hours, because of the heat and the noise.
So, if you go to bed very, very, late, you tend to get up very, very, late, and that means getting to work just on time, or late, and not having time for breakfast in the rush. So, breakfast at the desk.
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excuses noted but NOT acceptable (^-^). To be honest, just bad habbits.
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"I've found local employees to be great instruction-followers; they'd make wonderful legal assistants. But they are lacking in the initiative/creativity dept in my very limited experience. So I'm just checking if you guys have the same problems?"
This sums up the prevalent impression that most Westerners have.
"So, if you go to bed very, very, late, you tend to get up very, very, late, and that means getting to work just on time, or late, and not having time for breakfast in the rush. So, breakfast at the desk."
I understand the reasons, but if you work in western organization this just isn't looked upon very well. I will say that it is convenient in one way: the late hours ensure easy time zone contact with colleagues further west.
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I always eat breakfast at my desk, But I have to be in by 7 am each day, I just haven't got the time to eat at home I'd rather spend the extra time in bed. Personally I don't see a problem eating breakfast at your desk, so long as you do it before ordinary working hours start.
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What is wrong with eating at your desk, even during "ordinary" hours?
Employees should be judged by what they produce, not how and when they eat.
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There is nothing wrong with it per say. If you cant get your act together to get your breakfast sorted before the rest of the office is humming though, that doesn't say a lot about your productivity or efficiency though now does it. I mean its not that hard a thing to do now is it.
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I have found the chewing and munching at desks a little off-putting, especially for those in open-plan offices. (What goes on behind closed doors in offices is none of my business...haha) There is also the smell which sticks around for some time. With so many eateries around, surely it's less of an excuse?
"So, if you go to bed very, very, late, you tend to get up very, very, late, and that means getting to work just on time, or late, and not having time for breakfast in the rush. So, breakfast at the desk."
This can't be right - such habits are learnt at or after university since I see little kids going off to school very early in the morning, and their apartments can't be smaller than the average.
Let's just say these are all "soft" skills - wonder why that gweilo company hasn't promoted you after all these years? Probably because the chewing at desks and late arrivals are not consistent with senior status. Maybe I'm just uninitiated to HK ways...
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"This can't be right - such habits are learnt at or after university since I see little kids going off to school very early in the morning, and their apartments can't be smaller than the average."
HK locals apartments tend to be very small. Also you'll see lots of local kids out on the town with their parents in the evening. Where your average non-latin Westerner might put his young kids to bed at 7 or 8, the locals might put them to bed at 10 or 11.
"Let's just say these are all "soft" skills - wonder why that gweilo company hasn't promoted you after all these years? Probably because the chewing at desks and late arrivals are not consistent with senior status. Maybe I'm just uninitiated to HK ways..."
Nono. I think you hit the nail on the head.
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send thre guy a PM, I know he is looking
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