Posted by
katiefran
18 yrs ago
Hi there, this is more of a curiosity for me than a problem so I'm wondering what others think. Today I went and visited the history museum and my 11 month old bub was fussing so I figured he might be thirsty from the heat so I sat down on a seat in the foyer and nursed him. One of the (many) security guards quickly interrupted me to point out I could go to the baby room to do that (not sure if it was a bathroom or a specific nursing room) and I told her I was OK and I would stay there. She was polite but insisted what I was doing was against the museums regulations and I had to go to the baby room. I kept nursing (or at least attempted to with curious bub craning his neck to see what the fuss was!) and asked her to please leave us alone because she was disturbing my baby. She quickly backed off and that was it - I suspect she did not want a confrontation. She wasn't rude and I think she thought she was doing her job and doing the right thing. I never found the museum regulations so I don't know if it was true??!! Any ideas? If so, I would be very surprised.
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No idea about musem regulations, but certainly beastfeeding in public has been a recurring debate in HK. People don't ususally like it, I suspect because of the "breast" implication. Even if you are discreet (i.e not with you breast hanging out), some people get uncomfortable simply KNOWING that something is sucking your nipple. Personally, I think they're the ones with the problem!
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Ironically, I read in another thread that on the mainland it's not frowned upon at all. The grannies will even come and offer suggestions.
I wonder what the law says though.
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Good for you! In recent years Govt. has actively been promoting the concept of breast is best & am 99.9% sure there is no rule or regulation to say you can not BF your baby on a bench in public in any public place.
However, if in an area that has a baby feeding room you may want to take advantage of it as some people are uncomfortable with it and it will prevent such situations such as this happening.
However, if there is not a comfortable feeding room available go for it, as it really is very unpleasant being directed to the toilet, afterall I doubt they have to have their meals in the toilet.
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I do wonder if there really was such a regulation and if I was being directed to a room specifically set aside for nursing or a toilet - I'm really not sure. I did sit in a quiet corner of the foyer and my breast was not on display (until the security guard came over!!), its not like I sat down amongst the cultural relics and started squirting milk about the place! Regardless, I'm in two minds about the whole nursing facilities thing anyhow.
On one hand I think its great that some shopping malls, etc. offer parents such facilities. (unfortunately they aren't always practical and involve some convoluted navigating around multiple floors, which isn't a good thing when bubs is yelling his head off). Also the only one I ever used provided a small narrow armchair and it would be near impossible to squeeze my large wriggly bub in there now!
On the other, they seem a somewhat token gesture since there are so few of these facilities PLUS the biggest issue is why is the society we live in expecting women to hide away if they need to nurse? This social/cultural requirement appears to be contradictory to govt claims of supporting and encouraging b/f (this applies to many places not just HK) And if we do meekly go when ordered to retreat, does this not send the message that we are ashamed of what we are doing? I've worked damned hard to nurse my son for so long and I'm determined to reap the benefits of the convenience that b/f offers, regardless of anyones delicate sensitivities.
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Well breastfeeding in public in HK has always been a big issue. i do remmeber somebody getting told off at the Peninsula while i was living in HK, and it became a big issue. Lots of mums planned to gather to do it at the same time, though since i was a lot younger and single at that time, babies and bf were faaaaar from things that held my interest for long enough and I cant remmeber the outcome.
i too was told to go away as i tried to breastfeed baby in a shopping mall all of which irriated me and i felt exactly the same way as you.
HK is a bit of a srtange place. they'll pay dollars for 'organic' 'natural' stuff that comes in plastic wrapping, but will object to bf.
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"why is the society we live in expecting women to hide away if they need to nurse"
In many countries, such as the US (legislated on the state level) and the UK breastfeeding is specifically exempt from indecent exposure laws. So you can in theory breastfeed in a public place. I suppose a restaurant or a museum could have specific regulations forbidding it, but they would rapidly face a firestorm of public opinion.
Forty or fifty years ago in the West, breastfeeding was not at all seen in such a positive light. The idea was that the "modern woman" of the time didn't have time to breastfeed and formula was the answer. All of humanity's nutrition problems would be solved by canned food after all. It's take a long time to get back from that, and HK is farther behind in the curve. On the other hand, in rural mainland China, they never "left" the breastfeeding ethos, and from I hear it doesn't even raise eyebrows.
Another cultural impetus in HK (and presumably other affluent cities in the Orient) is the distance many people want from the actual raising of children. Many mothers don't want to see how the sausage is made. Couple this with an obsession with looks and they let helpers handle feedings with formula instead of sullying those perfect breasts with possible sag. This "absent parenting" of course continues.
And so there you are, with your breast out, and someone finds it offensive. I find such people mildly ridiculous. If you don't want to see, just look away.
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Just had to pop in after the saggy breast comment. ;-)
It's actually pregnancy and genetics that make your breasts sag. Not breastfeeding at all. There are scientific studies to back it up.
Do contact La Leche League HK to see what's 'on the books' as to regulations. I'm glad that she wasn't rude to you and perhaps you even taught her something. Well Done!
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Godess Kali, I do remember this case. Mothers went on mass to the Peninsula and BF babies. Much publicity about it and I understand the Peninsula issued an apology. Those mothers did their bit to help promote BF in HK.
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"Just had to pop in after the saggy breast comment. ;-)
It's actually pregnancy and genetics that make your breasts sag. Not breastfeeding at all. There are scientific studies to back it up."
Just for the record, I agree with you. I think it's a perceived issue just like the rest of it.
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I find the idea that public b/f *might* offend someone, so to avoid such a possibility you must go behind closed doors pretty strange. For me my baby's needs are significantly more important to me than the slight possibility of upsetting a complete stranger!
I'm aware of the laws regarding b/f rights in Oz (where my son was born) and in the US (where I'll be going later for xmas) but I suspect no such law exists here.
axptguy, interesting POV. A distinct possibility I would imagine.
My b/f experiences here have otherwise been uneventful and seems to be met with more curiosity than anything. I do wonder if there are special exceptions made for my 'behaviour' because I am not Chinese, and I wonder if the security guard would have backed down so quickly in the museum if I was not a foreigner.
I have been nursing publicly everywhere since my son was born so I am fairly immune to what's going on around me and I refuse to be shooed away or embarassed. It does sadden me to think that other women who b/f here might not do so or feel like they have to stay at home so to avoid public humiliation.
Does LLL have support groups for extended B/F mothers? Not that I'm in that category yet but will be approaching it in the coming months.
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PDNS
18 yrs ago
I b/f my baby for many months here in a lot of public places. Yes, they will surely take few seconds look or may be a little longer but all my encountered were very pleasant. Yes, they were some people asking me why not feed the baby in the room or to the more secluded or 'hidden' areas but usually they let me do it after I told them i am fine with sitting down here. Some walked away smiling and some did murmur something. Most of the time I can't hear what they say or not understand (I do speak fairly good Cantonese after 9 years here) exactly, i always take it as a compliment that 'She is breastfeeding her baby!'. With this issue I did put up this topic to some locals here (man and woman, younger and middle age), they told me the main reason they take a look at B/F moms in the public is because they really admire the courage those moms has and beating all trouble to lift up their shirts to feed! Some unmarried guys said that they will really wish that their future wives are as bold as you, the B/F Moms. Some local moms told me how could we willing to take the trouble to feed in the public on the bench or MTR? They said if there were any encouragement from us, they love to try to B/F their babies!! So count it a blessing that they actually take a look at us. Actually I am taking a good look at any mom B/F her baby in the public and give them a good SMILE or thumb-up!!
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Yes, LLL definitely do have meetings that include ALL nursing mothers. Sometimes they have specific meetings for older nurslings. I know that LLL really love it when successful bf mums come to meetings...new mums have so many questions and it's so good to see someone who has 'been there, done that' and can share her experiences.
Thanks for doing what you do with such aplomb!
cheers from Ruth, who had LLL meetings in GuangZhou for 3.5 years, but is now in Canada...
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Z
18 yrs ago
Just reminds me of when my kid was very small [<3mo] and several times when I was BFing her in public places on the mainland complete strangers would walk over and lift the cover to see the baby. Men and women.
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"Some local moms told me how could we willing to take the trouble to feed in the public on the bench or MTR? "
Weird logic in that comment of course. How is it less trouble to go to a little room where mommy will be bored out of her skull?
"Just reminds me of when my kid was very small [<3mo] and several times when I was BFing her in public places on the mainland complete strangers would walk over and lift the cover to see the baby. Men and women."
This is what I also heard. A definite indication of a society where "modern" ideals haven't taken hold and breastfeeding is just a thing you do. Nothing special. After all, using anything but the breast was an impossibility for the vast majority of the population in most countries until the last hundred years.
I assume that the people lifting the cover saw the breastfeeding baby as something of interest of itself. They didn't lift the cover to take a look at the breast as a sexual object.
Just for the record, as a man I can feel a certain mild titillation from seeing an exposed breast. But miniskirts and plunging necklines are far more provocative. Keep breastfeeding ladies. It's your right. If some a**e can't take it that's his problem.
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I am 8.5 months pregnant and hoping to BF my baby for at least a year. I have been at times shocked at the treatment I have recieved as a ballooning pregnant gweilo - comment, stares, MTR travel (hell, just walking down the street can be a mission!) etc.
So it's been on my mind how life will be out and about with a BF baby. I certainly don't expect to let my boobs hang out - I have a sling, nursing tops and pashminas all lined up to help me out.
I have decided that if I find myself in the similar situation as the OP, I will simply tell the concerned 'security guard' to call the police. They can deal with the problem and haul me off to the lock up if it's that much of a problem.
Gosh, I might even push the envelope and sit on the grass at HK Park while I'm at it........
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RachRobin, it is admirable that you intend to breastfeed in public. And while you may be morally (and probably legally) in the right, is there really a point in actively seeking confrontation? It creates a hassle for you too.
Not saying you should hide away, but often just moving a little defuses a situation which will be just as annoying to you as it will be to your "attacker".
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RachRobin - don't be at all put off by my experience, it's probably pretty rare in HK from what I can tell. It may also be less 'acceptable' because my bub is almost one now so that may add to the 'discomfort' factor. While I don't think there is any legislation protecting the right of b/f mothers here, I have found HK overall to be pretty accepting and really most people have just shown curiosity (particularly the older ladies). However my early b/f days were spent in Oz and its quite a different kettle of fish feeding a newborn than it is an older bub.
I personally have never used a sling or cover when nursing (mainly because I haven't found it practical for me and my bub refused to be covered!) and I also found the process of trying to cover up while nursing was awkward and probably drew more attention than surreptisiously lifting my shirt and going about my business.
I also found something I didn't expect - due to the problems I battled establishing sucessful b/f I am fiercely protective of it, and after all it entailed, someone asking me to stop basically minimizes all of that and I don't think twice about standing up for my right to keep doing it. I'm sure most b/f mothers feel that way.
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Kwis
18 yrs ago
I breastfed my #1 until 18 months and am still breastfeeding my 14mo. I haven't been in any situation where I've been told to move or cover up, but yes, I did get my share of stares. I've gotten to the point where it really doesn't bother me anymore. I'm doing what is natural and is good for my kids. I don't think we (breastfeeding mums) have to be militant about this, though, even when faced with stares or ignorant remarks. Just approach the situation from the standpoint that these people don't know any better, otherwise, they would be supportive about breastfeeding, too.
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Rach robi, dont worry about it, i am sure you wont have any problems while feeding in public. and if u do, a smile and politeness might be better as a first line of defence.
Yes, my bf apron etc were not of any use in public either as baby would jsut get aggravated and pull it off. probably because i never used them while feeding him at home. so if u intend to use these covers, it might be a good idea to cover baby while feeding at home as well.
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Hey thanks everyone.
I didn't mean to sound like I am going to be out and about on a mission to BF in public, it's just been on my mind that at some stage I will have to. I do my best to ignore the current stares and I try to be culturally sensitive wherever I am in the world.
Local 'culture' and 'keep of the grass' signs have just got my goat at the moment, blame it on pregnancy hormones & homesickness. These grey skies are driving me nuts.
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I think when many local ask how you could take the "trouble" to BF on the MTR or in public they actually mean they are surprised that you are breastfeeding at all. Many local have their babies sleep with the housekeeper so they don't have to wake up at all and BFing for 2 months is quite an accomplishment to many. As far as I am aware, there is no law protecting the rights of a BFing mom but also no law to make it illegal although I read somewhere you could be charges with indecent exposure... not too sure. I would love to be enlightened regarding the actual legal ramifications of BFing in public.
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Wouldn't LLL know about the legal ramifications of breastfeeding (if any) in HK? I'll also be watching this thread. I nurse with a bib on and so far it's been alright although little one is starting to hate it. In fact about a month ago I was nursing at starbucks and really into my book when I discovered that little man had removed the bib, was fast asleep and there was a boob hanging out in all its glory for god knows how long. More worryingly, nobody notice or care to let me know! Oh dear..
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I had a lot of trouble breast feeding my oldest here when he was 7 months old, mostly a combination of frustration and sensitivity to the staring and just being pissed off that I could never find anywhere comfortable to sit down to do it!!! My son also loved to rip off any kind of cover so he could feed and pop up to see all those people surrounding him all the time. We were here on vacation from NZ so it was a culture shock to me to see how people were generally uncomfortable and weird about breast feeding. Before we moved here I changed my youngest to the bottle, again at 7 months cause of that first experience. I have traveled all over the world and never felt that kind of silent discrimination about Breast feeding. This was a few years ago though.
It isn't asian culture cause mainlanders aren't like that, and my Korean students in NZ would embarrass me by coming right up to touch and play with the baby while he was feeding.
Sometimes I don't get HK, it's like they took on upper class British ideals from the old days and have mixed them in with modern life here.
Or is it just that society has lost it's nurturing mothering ideal and like others have commented people don't relate to a breast as a form of nurture. I think it's the over saturation of naked women on every advertisement and billboard here that makes it hard to relate to women as nurturers.
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"Sometimes I don't get HK, it's like they took on upper class British ideals from the old days and have mixed them in with modern life here."
I think you get it fine.
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