Posted by
GemmaW
17 yrs ago
I'm Malaysian and my husband is a local Hongkonger.
Our daughter currently attends a local kindergarten.
She is fluent in Cantonese.
Husband works in China and is only home, in total, between 4-6 days a month.
I do not speak nor write in Chinese - although I can handle some daily conversations (well, okay, not a lot, but anyway......)
So here's my worry. I heard that with ESF, preference is given to those children who cannot speak Canto. My daughter does so does that mean that she'll be at the bottom of the priority list?
If she does not get into ESF, what are my other choices? I cannot afford international.
She's been in the local stream for a year (K1) and it's been awful. She gets lots of homework which I cannot help her with because I cannot read Chinese and she misses out on school trips/projects for the same reason. Last semester, I didn't even know she was having assessments because all the notices they gave us were in Chinese.
I am unwilling to swap her to international stream at her school in case she cannot get into ESF. Then she'll be stuck in the middle with not enough chinese to survive in the local stream and no english schools to go to because I cannot afford it.
I think I'm supposed to apply for ESF later this year. Anyone knows if I should apply or if it's a waste of time, given that she speaks Canto?
Any advice would be appreciated.
PS: I speak to her in English at home but I also work, so her English isn't very good. Our helper's English is shocking ;-) She understands English well but she speaks broken English.
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GemmaW,
I totally understand your concerns and frustrations, and diffculties.
I went through the same thing last year. my daughter is now in K2.
My husband doesn't want her to go to int'l school. At least not yet.
Thus far, she has excelled in her class this year. With a lot of efforts from me, and a very very good tutor.
She writes sentences in chinese, and english now. Her math is counting up to 100 and over. And she does questions in math like addition up to 20, subtraction up to 20, and now missing numbers like 10 + ( ) = 15. And mental arithmetic daily quizzes, and 3 homework a day, and 4 exam periods in a school year.
She's very happy this year, and so am I. I think she's really catching on, she speaks quite a bit more Cantonese and putonghua now. We're native English speakers from Canada, and the whole household speaks only English including my helpers, and even my mom and mom in law, they speak English to my kids because if they spoke in chinese, my kids ignore them. Now, it's different.
last year, a lot of heartache, tears, and encouragement. We didn't give up, and it is rewarding us now.
Hang in there, but of course ESF is going to be total different story, it's not the matter of whether she qualifies to get in or not... I have lots of students who are in ESF who are PURE local chinese. Don't worry about that. The non chinese speakers get priority, not exclusivity.
Question is whether ESF's programme (int'l) is what you want for your child in the long run.
I questioned myself for a long time.... finally decided to hang in and see.
It never hurts to APPLY first, get accepted, then decide.
good luck.
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Just apply. Give it a try. I don't think they are looking for kids who speak perfect English. My son goes to an ESF primary school. There is good mix of students from a diversity of cultural backgrounds, Korea, Japan, South Asia, Africa and non-English speaking parts of Europe. Not all of them speak perfect English. Even for a kid whose first language is English, there is no guarantee that his English is good. In the case of my son, he still says "he don't" sometimes because that is the way our helper speaks and he spends a great deal of time with her. I truly don't think it's a problem. Kids pick up language fast.
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GemmaW, yes do give a try. No application fee is required anyway. 70% of the parents are local so it doesnt matter if your child speaks good english or not. But it sounds to me that your child speaks and understands better in Chinese, right? Why not try direct subsidised schoos (DS)? Very affordable fees and here are some suggestions : (1) Pui Kiu College (Shatin) HK$1200 (approx) (2) St Margaret (Kowloon) HK$2000 (approx) (3) Po Leung Kuk Choi Kai Yau (Kowloon) (HK$4xxx) They all emphasize a lot on English as well as Chinese. If my child speaks Chinese, then I wld have tried enrolling all of them.
Kate, your child must be gifted. You meant she can count up to 100? She is only in K2, right? My daughter is going to ESF P1 this August but she can hardly count up to 20, let alone addition and subtraction. Oh boy!! I am envious (^-^).
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Mighty, no, she's not gifted, she's smart, and clever, and naughty, but definitely not gifted. Some of her classmates are FAR more advanced than her. I am just trying to catch up. She's above average in her class, according to her class teacher. My daughter tries really hard because Cantonese and Putonghua are her 2nd and 3rd language.... her English is top in the class. But it's hard work, but seeing that she learns alot and can handle it is the motivation.
Her school's standards are like that. Next year ,K3, she is expected to write a full paragraph in Chinese, and in English. At the end of K3, multiplication table is recited. (Scary isn't it !?!)
That's the reason we are sticking to local schools, their programmes are quite a lot more advanced than Int'l Schools. Question is, what do you want for your child? Very different paths!
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Hi Kate, this is my scary bit of coming back to Hong Kong. The information and pressure on kids' education are so overwhelming. The country where I live now is very relaxed and everything is so easy going. Whenever I came back to Hong Kong in between the holidays, I felt so inadequate of not doing enough for her education and fearing that she wl be much much behind. People say dont compare but that is always easier said than done. Luckily my husband is so relaxed about it so sort of a nice balance at home. Multiplication table, wow, as far as I remember, that was one of my primary tasks!!
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dp
17 yrs ago
Mighty, I can understand your concern but IMO you are taking a very sensible approach to your child's education and development. He may not know how to add and subtract yet but there's plenty of time for that! I bet he has been learning lots of valuable life skills by engaging with friends, playing and swimming outdoors, chatting (and arguing!) with those around him, and observing everything you do in your day-to-day life. ESF and international schools may not be as intense as local schools but students from these schools gain admission to the best universities worldwide. I'm sure those universities value kids who can think critically, debate intelligently with their peers and professors, and have a wide range of interests and knowledge beyond just maths and physics e.g. in art history, world politics, etc. I think the ESF/international sytem offers the better platform for honing these kind of skills - if a child focuses so much on academic learning during school and has no time for broader development, it will be too late to do so when they finally finish their exams at 18 years of age.
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dp, defintely my daughter is argumentative. She doesnt eat meat at all and yesterday we tried to persuede her to try be4 saying no but she insisted not to. And that turned into a big tantrum and she had time out in her bedroom without lunch. Suddenly, she came out and said to my husband "daddy, do you know why I dont eat meat. Because if you go to a shop, you will see it has blood inside it!!". We tried very hard not to laugh and we were sure that she had been thinking very hard on how to win her battle when she had her time out (^-^).
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cd
17 yrs ago
You should apply to ESF, but work on your childs English in the meantime. ESF do not require entrance exams and take all abilities, but they do require a certain standard of understanding and spoken English. I have heard of some people that work hard on their older childs English and get them a place assuming that the younger one will automaticallly go as they have a sibling there, but because their spoken English is not good they don't get a place. Even if you are turned down to start withm the childs name goes to the bottom of the waiting list, in which time their English can improve so they can be offered a place once their name gets to the top.
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just curious. when you apply to ESF, do you apply to ESF in general, or are you applying to particular ESF schools? And then they tell you which school you've been accepted?
wouldn't the acceptance rate vary according to school?
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dp
17 yrs ago
mighty, haha :-) your post made me smile. your dd is clearly honing her negotiating and problem-solving skills. good for her!
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Yes, when you apply to ESF, you apply TO ESF's main office, but it will ask you which school you are applying to. If you have missed the application deadline, and is interested in their waiting list, then you apply directly to the school.
Mighty, I think it's all about adjustment and the character of your child. I thought at first my daugther definitely can only attend Int'l schools. She enjoyed being in one for preschool, and summer camp each year. However, this year, she's become quite "matured". She likes her school, speaks more Chinese to us, and always telling us what the school has taught her. LIke, Save the environment by using less tissue at home... she started a campaign, telling all of us to use towels to wipe our hands, to have our own towel in our pocket like she does for school....
Then use less bags, each how many pieces of fruit, and then recently showed us that the school had their own olympics 2008. The school helped her prepare a booklet with photos of the students running, ping pon, eating delicacies of beijing, colouring the olympic sign...etc. She asked me "Mommy, do you know the colours of the Olympic rings? I actually didn't !!! She told me about it, and was very proud of herself.
I think the international schools definitely give children more time to "develop" their own aspirations, personality, and more "freedom"..... and less homework, less pressure from exams, tests... however being in a local school, the parent and the students definitely have a lot more work, need to dedicate alot more time to academics, and children start to learn what "pressure" and "competitiveness" at an early age. Depends what you want for you child... my husband and I believe the appropriate "pressure" for a child is actually good for their future development.
If you know the strengths and weakness of your child, and the school (every school has some) then you can balance it with extra curricular activities, course, books, and exercises, and your own parenting style can help.
I am quite confident my daughter will continue have best of both worlds. I am going to make sure she does. Good luck!
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To everyone, thank you! I am learning a lot from everybody's input.
I agree that both systems are very different, and both have their advantages and disadvantages. When I was in Malaysia, I was from a convent school so everything was very disciplined. They have similar curriculum to Hong Kong's in that I had to rote learn a lot of things. I went overseas for high school and there, I was introduced to a very different system where creative thinking was more important. I would say that an environment that promotes creative thinking and a fun-filled environment is important because it promotes a love for learning. It is great for children who have a thirst for learning... but for children who are not interested, they tend to fall behind because there is no pressure.
In a rote-learning/strict environment, children are being taught discipline. This is good too because it means that when they go overseas (like I did from Malaysia), I believe I had the discipline to "push" myself to do well at school. English wasn't a problem for me either because my parents spoke to us in English at home.
I experienced both environments and I believe that they have shaped me into who I am today.
But if you ask me now which I prefer, I really cannot say. A bit of both is important.
My worry about sending my daughter to a local Chinese school here is more to do with not being familiar with the language enough to play an active role in her learning, and as it is, she's coming home from school crying because I send her to school in uniform when it's supposed to be casual or she doesn't do her project because I didn't know she had to.
Her English standard isn't great. She's not fluent, but she's able to carry out a conversation in English (broken English, I would say, but can still speak in sentences) and she can understand English perfectly.
All your comments are helpful because it helps me understand the choices all of you have made. Hopefully I'll be able to choose a path for my daughter that we won't regret.
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Hi Gemma W,
If you're staying in HK Island, I would like to introduce you 'St Paul's Convent School, Primary Section' (http://www.spcspr.edu.hk/) so you can have a thought about it.
This is a private English school in which about 10-20% of its students are non-Chinese. All student circulars are written in English so you don't have to worry about not knowing what your child's going on in school. If your daughter's Chinese is good enough, she can just go for the regular Chinese class (they called it 'Chinese I'), otherwise, she'll be put into Chinese II (i.e. Chinese for foreigners). Apart from Chinese language, Putonghua and R.E, all other subjects are taught in English.
The tuition fee is about HK$22k per year which is very reasonable and affordable. Nevertheless admission is highly selective but I think it still worths a try.
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bccbcc, just curious... do you have a child in St Paul's?
I agree St Paul's is a great school. However, it's almost impossible to get in unless your child is in their nursery or preschool, and if you know "connections, and or the parent is alumni.
I think last year, they took in 3 outsiders. The rest were all already in their nursery... this is Primary 1 I am talking about. The other grades, I don't know.
But yes, it's a great school. problem is figuring how to even get your child in there.
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Katetam,
Yes, my 2 girls are studying there, they're in P1 & P3.
I think chances are better to get in for non-Chinese speakers, I know a few of them are not from its kindergarten or nursery (and in fact, most of them are 'outsiders' according to my kids). What I know is, the child has to speak good English and perform well during interview. (The interview is conducted in English and questions will be asked to demonstrate the child's academic ability.)
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