Posted by
minttea
17 yrs ago
Can someone please help!
I'm at my wits end and can't understand what or where i am going wrong - I have two boys age 5 and 8 and when they are on their own they are both lovely, but soon as they are back from school they just argue, fight, mess about to the point where my younger one spends all evening crying and whinging. getting the older one to do homework is a nightmare! and constant battle
when i leave the room or am on the phone especially they think its an opportunity to go crazy start making loud noises, jump around and start play fighting. I've spoken to them both and always end up shouting and nothing ever changes! Its been over a year now and i can't cope with it anymore
They just don't seem to listen to what i am asking them to do and how I want them to behave for a while. If i leave them with the helper its the same thing - she doesn't have any control over them and they just behave really badly. It's disappointing hear breaking that Ihave 2 boys who just can't behave.
We're going home for our hols in 2 weeks and I am so scared to take them home and what family will think of them - especially the older one who really doesn't seem to be maturing.
What can i do? I really am exhausted by them as they don't listen. I feel that maybe my only option is to put the older one in boarding school so that I don't spend all day telling him off and he develops as a boy should. But i feel really guilty about that and i think i would have big regrets as well as he would towards me. I feel like a really bad parent and don't know what to do - its really affecting my mood and my relationship with them.
Someone please help me
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This is a tough situation. It will be hard going for a while but it is not too late.
Cara has it right. Do not be afraid of taking the gloves off.
- Never threaten punishment unless you are ready to carry it out.
- Time outs are a great punishment since they are not corporeal and yet they stop the child from doing what he/she wants in addition to the humiliation. We put our daughter out on the balcony if she seriously misbehaves (happens perhaps once a week but used to be more often). She can come back in when she has calmed down and is ready to apologize. Nowadays the threat of a time out is typically enough.
- Be consistent, always, no matter how tired you are.
- Be consistent among all caregivers. Have regular meetings, compare notes, and take action based on a common agenda.
- Do not accept whining, hitting, bad language, raising of the voice in anger, tantrums. If these happen, the "guilty party" should be ignored. If the guilty party is disruptive to others (yelling in the middle of the living room), use a time out.
- Clear rules and boundaries seem very strict but children (and adults) need them. Otherwise they act out out of insecurity.
- Do not be afraid of tears. Children will mercilessly try to manipulate you with them. If you can't take it, turn around and walk away.
- Never ever allow someone else to "rescue" and give comfort to the child who is being punished. This will ensure that the child will play the caregivers against each other.
- Accept that children are children. If they are tired and hungry they will be cranky (as will adults btw). In other words, don't punish them for your mistakes. There's a fine line here of course.
- Through actions, make the child understand that being part of a family means contributing with a positive attitude.
- Lead by example. If an adult is allowed to be grumpy, angry or vociferous, the children will take their cue from there. If adults behave well, children have no excuse.
""if you are a good boy and share your toys/play nicely we will go fly your kite/jump on the trampoline/go to mcdonalds' for a milkshake""
This method should be used sparingly and with the utmost care. You risk engendering mercenary behavior, where they behave well only because they get an ice cream.
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"i, personally, think that rewarding good behaviour and disciplining bad is what is needed when raising children. we all work on a rewards system (think investment bankers) if you do a good job, you are rewarded."
Cara, I was unclear. Of course one should reward good behavior. I just think one should be careful. It is easy to fall into the trap of rewarding specific things while ignoring the bad stuff that went on around them. Not saying you're doing this. ;)
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how about the father? does he have no say in anything. Does he try to discipline the kids?
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i've tried rewards for when they are good - but its a very rare occurance - we've come to a point now that if I tell them off they just start laughing and thinks it funny.
They haven't had TV for 2 weeks now or their DS's and they still don't feel that they should behave and show good manners and respect to me.
The older one just doesn't understand what I'm trying to teach and thinks he can behave like his little brother.
Their Dad is hardly ever around and when he is he can't stand they way they behave and has no control over how they behave - they play up the same way with him
I'm just totally stuck and today I am verging on a breakdown - I just can't stand the noise and constant talking back to everything I ask them to do.
I'm not sure how I can win and take charge.
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I am reading a really good and practical book called "That's My Son" by Rick Johnson. It was originally written at the request of single mothers on how to raise boys into good men. It is directed toward mothers and has helped me understand a lot more about boys and men and given me good practical things to do.
Also, I recommend watching episodes of The Super Nanny as silly as that sounds because a lot of what she does and says is right on for kids: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=Super+Nanny&search_type=&aq=f
Something struck me about what you said: "He doesn't seem to be maturing like he should." Good behavior is not really something that children eventually "grow into." It has to be cultivated. I mean as base as this may sound, you don't expect that a certain age your puppy will stop messing on your carpet--just because he's that age--no, you train him not to do that.
You said you have a helper--that helper has a huge influence in how your children are raised, actually--especially if they are the primary care giver for that child during the week. I would check and see if your helper has the "parenting" and disciplinary skills to really raise a child--a helper like that is more than just someone who makes meals and cleans up--that person is a person of influence--an adult of influence in your child's life. You have to have a "gameplan" for how good and bad behavior is dealt with.
Screaming won't accomplish anything--especially with boys--there was a recent study about how the male ear is literally not adept at hearing certain pitches--especially higher female ones.
My brother, sister and I were loud, disobedient, rambunctious kids. My parents were creative with their discipline. Sometimes we just needed to "blow off steam" and burn off energy so usually our discipline was a physical type--run around the block 10 times for mouthing off--do some push ups. Boys need an outlet to channel their energy--a focus--otherwise they get into trouble.
Sending your child to boarding school sends a bad message--it's like, "Well, we can't deal with you so we'll let other people deal with you." I don't think you want either of your sons to be abadoned like that.
Hope the best for you.
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"sounds like you have absolutely no control and they KNOW it.
you need to re-establish your place as PARENTS.
if they don't care about no tv, then find something else that works.
do they have chores to do? if not, give them some.
daddy needs to re-establish himself as a presence in the house."
Indeed. You need to change the paradigm. Retake the initiative. Currently the enemy is calling the shots.
- Make up a routine and some ground rules. Also figure out consequences.
- Have a family meeting to go through the rules.
- Do not waver.
Typically children want attention. This includes "negative attention", as in getting yelled at. It is still attention. Ignoring them is often a very effective punishment. We sometimes say, "Nobody wants to play with you when you are like that". Then we proceed to ignore the culprit. If she continues acting up we continue ignoring her. Tends to get her on her best behavior right quick.
"i would recommend SHALOM IN THE HOME or something like that to give you some ideas on what to do and how to do it."
That and Super Nanny.
"My brother, sister and I were loud, disobedient, rambunctious kids. My parents were creative with their discipline. Sometimes we just needed to "blow off steam" and burn off energy so usually our discipline was a physical type--run around the block 10 times for mouthing off--do some push ups. Boys need an outlet to channel their energy--a focus--otherwise they get into trouble."
Very good point (whole post is very good TheCuteOne). Kids have enormous amounts of energy. Just to put in perspective, my daughters, at 12 and 14 kilos, eat about 1000 calories a day. That's half of what I eat for 1/5 of the body weight. No wonder they have lots of energy.
The corollary is that you need to tire them out. Make sure they play outside every day, or at the pool if you have one. Get them good and winded. Create chase games. Get them throwing a ball or a frisbee, playing tag, treasure hunts, swimming after coins on the bottom. Whatever it takes to get them tired. Create friendly competitions. Go hiking (don't call it hiking though, call it "an adventure").
If you don't do this, all the excess energy will be channeled towards acting up.
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An activity that involves a lot of discipline, like martial arts, may be something you can try. Typically in karate and other Oriental martial arts, the entire environment and behavior is deeply ritualized, focusing on control and respect (for the teachers and other students). "Selling" martial arts to young boys shouldn't be too hard either. I remember Rabbi Shmuley using martial arts in one program to good effect.
It is actually interesting how the methods used by military drill instructors, Rabbi Shmuley and Super Nanny are so similar. The details are different, but the basic ideas are the same. Carrot and stick, break down bad habits and build up character, consistency, clear rules, activities to foster teamwork, instructor winning through force of will, clear and direct feedback.
If you think about it, drill instructors are outnumbered, typically thirty or so to one. But pretty soon no one dares even contradict them. They control their charges purely through psychological means. I'm not saying you should transform your home into a military training camp, but there are definitely ideas from military training that can be well adapted to children.
My favorite movie in this regard is "Heartbreak Ridge" with Clint Eastwood. The scenes when Gunny Highway builds up his platoon of misbehaving bullies into proud and functioning Marines are both entertaining and educational. But I digress. ;)
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Agree with all of the above.
And, sounds like (if they are like mine) they still have too much energy after school. Get them to classes or lessons that gets that energy put into good use.
My kids are like that if they aren't tired enough.
After swimming, basketball, tennis, or soccer.... the two just sit, eat, drink, and do as I ask. Then they sleep.
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we've set the ouse rules today and there is coy of them in their bedrooms on the wall. plus we've done a schedule and reward list.
I put the older one in time out this morning and he hated it! and warned the younger one of the same.
thanks so much for all the advice.
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good luck!!
do get your hubby to participate more if possible though. apparently, boys look up to their dads...
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I'll chime in with the good luck. Remember that it might take a few days or weeks. Don't give in.
"do get your hubby to participate more if possible though. apparently, boys look up to their dads..."
So do girls. ;) But yes you are totally correct. Make sure all adults in the house are consistent. Also make sure any visiting kids understand that they are not welcome if they misbehave.
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To TheCuteOne:
Your post is very old, but I just found this thread. Are you still around?
I am interested in the book you mention (That's my son). Did you find it in HK?
If so, where?
Thanks a lot.
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I'm not the CuteOne but you can order off www.bookdepository.com they deliver free to Hong Kong so it is just the cost they advertise on their website. I've bought things from them before and always received everything pretty quickly.
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Thanks Sarah99. I had never heard of this website but I will definetely try it!!!
Sarah, I tried it and it seems to be a website of websites (most of them, if not all, from UK). Which one did you use to buy books and have them delivered to HK without shipping cost? Many thanks.
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minttea, I feel your pain!! I have two boys 5 and 7 years old..... there is something about this age for talking back that apparently happens to alot of boys at around 6 - 8 years old.
Mine do similar things to yours but my husband is super involved and hands out pretty tough discipline if he sees it. But they are still challenging us both even with all the time outs and confiscations....truthfully time outs work best for number 1 and confiscations best for number two. I see it as them really trying to test us and push us to see what they can get away with and for us we are keen to stop it now before they become teenagers and REALLY don't care what we think!
They are lovely boys, and I am so sure yours are too, you are not alone and I'm sure you will have tough days again int he future......just know there are other mums out here struggling too and this time will pass.
Get dad empowered to have some control over things, if the boys laugh at thier own dad it is really not a good sign, as they should look up to him. If at all possible now is a great great age to ship them off with dad for the day to do some outdoors stuff, helping them to bond in manly things that mums don't like to do! They will develop more respect for him if he does some stuff with them that involves physical challenge and perseverance.
My husband takes the boys sea kayaking, and camping and hiking regularly which gives me space and them a good example of ways to use all that energy in positive ways.....
good luck!
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