Potentially Moving to Hong Kong from Canada - need advice

My wife and I are considering moving to Hong Kong, I have an opportunity with work. We are Canadian and have both travelled a lot through Europe and lived in the UK for several years. We are now back in Toronto and have never been to Asia. This is appears to be an amazing opportunity professionally and personally but we don't know what to expect.


Can anyone provide advice regarding:


Housing?

Daily Life in Hong Kong?

Any issues with language?

Postives?

Negatives?


Any advice would be appreciated.


Thank you.

pgrieve - there are tons and tons of similar requests to yours on this forum - have a search - you should be able to find answers to everything really.

I would add this to the comments of the previous poster: if you want to be successful in Hong Kong, or any other unfamiliar place, do your own research first.


Then, if you have specific questions, ask them.

My husband and I are from Toronto, but we've lived in several countries. Some advice is as follows: Housing costs are ivery high. You'll need an excellent package to subsidize or you can't consider moving here unless you are paid a very high salary. You won't get a 4 bedroom house here with a swimming pool, long driveway and a large yard like you can for reasonable prices like you can in Canada. Many expats pay between $45K to $150K HK per month for an apartment depending on their budget, needs and the amount of facilities they are looking for, etc.Housing will depend on location, but you will generally expect to live in an apartment with some facilities. You do get used to it though. some jobs go to locals first so I believe your company may need to send you. since you don't speak Chinese, you may not get hired here, but I'm not sure about that. We like the people, their work ethics, the travel opportunities, but if you have kids, the schools have long waiting lists, although if you're not fussy, your kids will get in to some school and can change later. I don't have many language issues and there are ways around them. many people take taxis instead of driving and they learn to say their address in Cantones, but people in stores and most taxi drivers speak decent English. The people in the work force will speak English too.We like it here. We're members of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce so we still get to celebrate July 1st and Thanksgiving with other Canadians.The main downsides are a smaller place to live, less open spaces and poorer air quality. Upsides are an exciting work and personal environment, chances to meet people from all over the world and to travel. Good luck!

"Any issues with language?"


You'll be fine with English, but some basic Cantonese, like numbers, directions and greetings is extremely useful. Even a rudimentary grasp of Cantonese yields a much more positive response from those locals who are not typically "expat facing".


"Postives?"

- Safe for children and a very good place for them generally assuming you live reasonably well.

- Affordable domestic help.

- Cosmopolitan feel.

- Stellar public transport.

- Availability of most items in a range from luxury designer stuff to the very cheap.

- Work ethics. Long hours and hard work.

- Neighbors close by.


Negatives?

- Lack of green spaces and yards/gardens.

- Very hot in summer and quite "raw" indoors in winter.

- Pollution, although in many areas it really isn't that bad.

- Cultural clash with local employees.

- Local work ethics. Late starts and long lunches.

- Neighbors close by.




"if you have kids, the schools have long waiting lists, "


Yes and no. The lists seem longer than they are because most kids are on several. Also, many schools, for example Canadian International will take all applications and assess every child, then take in based on that assessment. Other schools do have a stricter waiting list procedure.




"Housing?

Daily Life in Hong Kong?"


As previously mentioned, this depends. HK has the whole range from the pinnacle of luxury down to living in a tiny shoebox of an apartment without a kitchen and with barely space to turn around. Relatively speaking, you get less space for your money than in most other places.

if you can learn to 'live small' you don't have to pay the 45-150K rent mentioned above. getting away from the hyper-consumer approach to life, where success is measured by how much crap you own, will make your life a lot more enjoyable and affordable here (and I'm not saying that you ARE that type of person at all). i, my wife and baby girl don't even make the 45k we would need to live as 'many' expats do (this is rubbish by the way...some people define expat as 'a banker/CEO from another country' when there are thousands of people here on much more modest incomes), and we have a decent, new 2 br flat, with enormous clubhouse full of facilities (pay as you go), exc. public transportation to everywhere we could want to go, and lots of public green space around us for hiking, beach days etc...you don't mention kids or the need for school info, so I assume you don't have to worry about this expensive aspect of life here...no problems with language here, and learning a few Canto phrases will get you a smile every time...pollution is bad at times, fair at others, with a few truly great weeks a year....heat and humidity can be high, but T.O. has it's share too....positives are easy fast tavel to all of SE Asia, great food, no nasty winter weather, lots of great people to meet, ...if you have the opp. to come here through work, meaning getting a visa won't be a problem, i would say DO IT! you wont regret it and you can definitely save money while you enjoy your life!


another canuck :-)

Thanks for everyone's quick reply, it is really appreciated.


Right now I live in a condo in downtown Toronto, so the I won't need to transition from a 3/4 bedroom house with a big backyard. No kids right now.


Looking at some of the areas to live I see references to the beaches. Are they clean to swim in?


I doubt I will get a car, so need to be able to walk to the grocery store and work, or at least convenient public transit.


Any suggestions on particular neighbourhoods? I hear that Discovery Bay contains a lot of expats, but does that mean only expats?


Lamma Island looks nice, but is it too far/inconvenient?


axptguy 38 mentioned the work culture. Here I am in the office early and leave at a reasonable time. Is the culture in Hong Kong to come in late morning and work late into the evening?

Its the culture to stay late in the office, I'd use the term work loosely though. Many people here work long hours, and think they will be better thought of if they stay till 9 in the office, but the hours are often very unproductive. They could fit what they do into a normal working day but choose not too.

Re housing, Discovery Bay is either a place you'll love or hate, personally I can't stand it. It has got many expats but mostly families.

Lamma is nice, but much smaller, ferries not as frequent as DB. Know 2 people that live/ed there, one loves it, one hated it.

Your best bet would be to go into a seviced apartment for a few weeks and really take your time getting to know all the areas of HK.

Sorry, as to the beaches, many people will probably tell you they're awful, and yes you often see plastic bottles and other rubbish, but as to water quality, they are all measured on a regular basis and are save to swim in. Best beaches are Sai Wan, Both Big Wave Bays, Shek O, Millionaires, there are many others too.

"axptguy 38 mentioned the work culture. Here I am in the office early and leave at a reasonable time. Is the culture in Hong Kong to come in late morning and work late into the evening?"


Yes. Many locals will dribble in after 0900. And they tend to take two hour lunches.


Most locals seem to have no Western sense of an "appropriate" hour to go to bed, staying up until after midnight as a matter of routine. It's not unusual to go out in the evening and see young children still up and about at 10 in the evening. Said children will then be exhausted at school, just as their parents are exhausted at work.


"Its the culture to stay late in the office, I'd use the term work loosely though. Many people here work long hours, and think they will be better thought of if they stay till 9 in the office, but the hours are often very unproductive. They could fit what they do into a normal working day but choose not too."


Agreed.




It all depends on who you work for. If you have a Western boss he/she will probably appreciate efficient work 0700-1700 more than inefficient work 0900-1200+1400-2100.




"Sorry, as to the beaches, many people will probably tell you they're awful, and yes you often see plastic bottles and other rubbish, but as to water quality, they are all measured on a regular basis and are save to swim in"


Agreed. The water is nowhere near as bad as the stories. People swim all the time without issues.




"Any suggestions on particular neighbourhoods? I hear that Discovery Bay contains a lot of expats, but does that mean only expats?


Lamma Island looks nice, but is it too far/inconvenient?"


Disco Bay is, from what I hear, quite nice. But it is "out there" and may feel a bit like living in a bubble.


Lamma is very quiet but it is a bit inconvenient. All depends on what you want.



I would also not that as soon as you're talking a place like Disco Bay or Lamma, deliveries become much more expensive. On the other hand most stores will deliver for free or for a small fee to HK Island and Kowloon as long as you buy over a specific amount. Deliveries are, at least for us, a great thing about HK. I live being able to buy some bulky stuff and not have to worry about how to get it home. Given the fact that we don't have a car (as you say you won't) it becomes even more important. Of course you can take a taxi but that's not really practical to Disco Bay or Lamma.


"Your best bet would be to go into a seviced apartment for a few weeks and really take your time getting to know all the areas of HK."


Indeed. And make sure you get out of the taxi and take a walk through any candidate areas. Walk to the grocery store, find the bus stops, etc... HK Island is very very hilly and what seems easy from the car can be a tough slog on foot. Most people who come to HK are amazed at how hilly it is.

I like the sound of grocery delivery ...


Another question regarding neighbourhoods/areas; are there any that you would consider 'unsafe'? We live in a city and understand that you have to be aware of your surroundings, but I would rather pay more in housing and have my wife feel comfortable walking around.


A follow up regarding the beaches ... do you swim in them?


I know that if someone from Hong Kong is emigrating to Canada the government states they need to have a medical to test for tuberculosis. Do you have concerns regarding this or any other health issues?


Thanks

Cara I would love to know where you live. If you don't mind sharing your little part of Hong KOng could you PM me? I'm really keen to get out of the apt lifestyle and back into a house but we're not on a huge income so Sai Kung/Clearwater Bay is out of our reach budget wise.

TB exists everywhere to some degree. I think one needs to be more specific than saying yes we have it in Hong Kong so a person knows whether they are more at risk here or not. The death rate in Hong Kong is approx 3.5 per 100,000 it is actually lower here than in Canada which is about 5 per 100,000. I have no clue about pure infection rates. Hong Kong has good data you would be able to find it on-line fairly easily. It is easier to collect data in Hong Kong being so much smaller than Canada with far less people. So the info is more up to date.

"I know that if someone from Hong Kong is emigrating to Canada the government states they need to have a medical to test for tuberculosis. Do you have concerns regarding this or any other health issues?"


As others have said, TB exists here. We got our kids and ourselves vaccinated soon after arrival. In any case I wouldn't lose sleep over it. The one you should think about is hepatitis, which is quite common here. But there are shots for that too so no worries.

To pbgrieve,

yes we swim in the sea.

to pbgrieve - no, we dont swim in the sea. so it is really up to you to decide how comfortable (or not) you are with the quality of water..

to pbgrieve,

i moved here a year ago with the intentions of staying 9 months... and i'm still here with no plans to leave! hk is the safest city i've ever been in - i go anywhere, any time of the day with no worries - and i'm a young female. i agree with everything people have already posted. sai kung is a GORGEOUS area but cara is right - you have to have a car. i live in kennedy town which is on the western side of the island. its quiet and more chinese than mid-levels or central but not as far away as lamma or db. we have some great little places opening up lately that are more western - tapas bars and organic grocery stores - and the prices of flats here are less than on other parts of the island. transportation is easy (so many buses, mini buses etc and taxis are only $30 to central) i have had friends that live in stanley as well and its beautiful (right on the water) but you'll have to check into prices.. still a little further away but transportation to and from there is no problem either.


to echo previous comments - it depends on what you want - but if you want the experience of living in hk being out in sai kung may prove to be a frustrating commute. we love to go hiking in sai kung and use that as our getaway! i think if i stay here and look to have a family i would want to be somewhere like Lantau or Sai Kung but right now i enjoy having dinner with friends 4/5/6 nights a week and like to be closer to everyone.


most apartment leases are 2 years with a 13 month break clause (after 13 months you can break the lease with one or two months notice) so if you're going to be here for a couple years don't feel like you're completely locked in. everyone has a different idea of what they want so you just need to really decide whether you want a longer drive and a bigger flat or a smaller flat and easier access to hk island.


i know another couple that just moved here from toronto (just decided they needed a change) and they are living in Wan Chai so that they can get the full experience of being close to everything! they have done tons of hiking and beachgoing etc and they are loving it so far :)

good luck to you!