Posted by
Dive bum
17 yrs ago
Yet another idle moment in the office...
Where do you think would be a good place to sit out the recession if you were made redundant and needed to wait for a year or two pending improved markets? Our position - Brits, no kids (hoorah!) and savings to keep us going for a while.
Living in Western Europe would be expensive and tax unfriendly (esp. UK). Hong Kong is tax friendly but too expensive when living on savings.
Thailand sounds nice and is relatively easy/cheap to flit in and out of to renew visas. Possible concerns over Red/Yellow shirt clashes.
Bali also sounds nice but infrastructure shortfalls might prove frustrating. Lack of decent shops, cinemas etc might also drag. No idea of tax position.
Any other day dreamers out there with a view on this?
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bdi
17 yrs ago
Not a dream but a suggestion. If this would be your cup or tea - how about some social work in someplace like Africa or India. Lay low for a while, do some good and get some satisfaction.
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Ed
17 yrs ago
Yes with Thailand there is a strict limit to the number of days you can stay over the course of a year... I think you get a one month visa but you cannot stay in the country for more than a total of 180 days out of a year....
I am building an eco shack in the mountains of Bali but in the meantime I rent a very nice 3 bedroom house in Bali with a pool and garage for USD1500 per month.
You can rent a car for about USD300 per month.
There are loads of excellent shops in Bali (not sure how long ago you were here buts its changed much). There are top notch delis selling everything you will need - two Carrefours - there is a cinema in Majapahit Mall near Kuta (watched the latest james bond flick there last week) - there is a restaurant that has excellent live jazz 2x a week - and another with blues...
There are loads of top end restaurants and quite a sophisticated nightlife scene that is pretty much void of the would be porn stars that infest other low cost locations in the region...
The to do list extends far beyond beaches and temples... http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/travel/threads/120146/things-to-do-in-bali?/
Weather is great year round - during rainy season it seldom rains for very long and usually overnight.
Additionally there are loads of cool places to visit in Indonesia that you can reach by cheap flights out of Bali.
Can't think of a better place to hunker down for a year....
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Malaysia is lovely, people are nice, it's safe, you can live fairly inexpensively and they're expat friendly I hear. Being one of few countries that make it easier for foreigners to buy property, I'm sure renting would give same results, my folks are thinking about retiring there. Currently they have a place in South India - but probs with long term visas and stuff.
What about travelling for a year? South Americ or Asia?
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I am increasingly thinking of doing similar, even if the sack doesn't come. I really hate managing in the current environment.
Two things are stopping me:
- 12 months away from PR eligibility in HK
- worries about the prospective employer's views on taking a year off
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Malaysia is very cheap and the food is great!
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Another bonus with Malaysia - they're possibly the most lax country around when it comes to Visas. We lived in KL for over 12 months, due to the fact that my partner and I aren't married yet I was on a tourist Visa for the entire time we were there.
It was easy enough to jump on a bus to Singapore, or a cheap flight to Phuket or Bali every three months, we were never questioned once. And if they do, be honest. You're on holiday...for 12 months!
Food is great, cost of living is dirt cheap. I wouldn't want to stay there for much longer than 12 months though, it did become a little stale.
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Malaysia is great! You can nail down a nice place for about $3K Ringgit in KL close to all the action (so about $6K HKD per/m) which would give you about 1000 sqft.
Malaysia embraces foreigners and is one of the few Asia countries currently pushing for MM2H program or Malaysia My 2nd Home offering 5year Visas renewable if you invest about $65K USD into a property. All of your belongings come in tax free, no cap gains you can even bring in a car no duties. You cannot work though but that is you question correct!!!!
Agree with the above posters on low cost of living especially food and close to everything including $100 USD fights to SING, BALI, BANGKOK.
People are great, speak English and nightlife, space to breath and clean. People who move to SING cant believe the difference in their health after living in HK however KL is cleaner than SING.
I would look at moving to KL from HK myself!
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Lots of good suggestions so far. Please keep them coming...any thoughts on Laos/Vietnam/Philippines - perhaps only suitable for shorter stopover? How about Australia/New Zealand?
I believe the rules changed earlier this month for Thailand visas. I read that you can now do back-to-back 30 day visas (by air) with no 90/180 day issues. Downside was to limit land crossing visas to 15 days which makes cheap visa runs to Vientiane etc less attractive.
Bali visas don't look so straightforward but perhaps they are and it's just a case of spending money to get an Indonesian 'sponsor'. Ed - your comments made this a very tempting proposition though I'd think long and hard about driving in Bali, the traffic always seems crazy but I guess you get used to it. I like the Candi Dasa area but that's a fair way from Kuta. Price seems attractive - much cheaper than our current place in Sai Kung .
I hadn't really considered Malaysia/KL - primarily because a friend who had worked there for a couple of years told me it was well dodgy if you strayed off the main streets. I'm pretty risk averse (in both investments and personal safety) so that put me off. It also puts me doing good works in places like Africa! I am, however, tempted by the thought of teaching kids maths/English in Bali - pro bono, of course. Anyway, the various Malaysia comments, so far, have put it right back on the list.
Travelling in the Region sounds fun but we did it a few years ago, for 3 months, and it does get a bit of a drag after a while. You long for a place where you can be a 'local' for a while, don't eat out every day, can potter around a garden or whatever.
Janes addiction - Leaving the workforce for a year or so and then facing problems on return is clearly a concern for most people. But then, we wouldn't be doing this out of choice right now - whilst we continue to be paid we'll stay! We left the UK for a change of job and lifestyle and so have already stepped off the greasy pole to a great extent. Coming back to a similar or more senior role would be unlikely and that needs to be recognised at the outset. We've no regrets about leaving the UK...
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Ed
17 yrs ago
Most passport holders get a one month visa for Bali at the airport immigration - I understand that there are other ways to get more lengthy visas including a Cultural Visa (if you can show you can support yourself HK Indo consulate will rubber stamp a renewable 6 month visa apparently). I have also heard you show up at the airport and cut a deal for another month without exiting.
Never tried either of these options as I am the King of APEC and I have a special card to prove it so I am greeted with ticker tape parades on arrival and I get to skip that horrible immigration q.
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I am mighty jealous. We were in a queue at Denpasar for well over an hour in October. I'm hoping it will be better in January. I shall look into getting one of those fancy cards...
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Dang - I don't have the right passport!
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Ed
17 yrs ago
Agree on traffic - it is bad during peak tourism months (June July August and Xmas) but if you avoid Kuta and Seminyak and avoid rush hours its doable. If you stay in Sanur there are few traffic issues from the airport as you dont go near those congested areas.
I think if you are a registered AsiaXPAT member that gives you visa free access to Bali - ask the guy at the immigrassi counter eh...
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"worries about the prospective employer's views on taking a year off"
I don't think you will have significant problems explaining to anyone if you decide to opt out of the rat race for a year. In fact some people are out of the game for up to that time because they cannot get work.
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Liezl
17 yrs ago
check out Cebu or Bohol in the Philippines.
Cebu has direct intl flights, cheap living, nice malls, nice hotels, nice beaches and much much much safer than Manila.
In terms of modern amenities Cebu can offer most of the things too.
Bohol, is also a good choice if you want simple and relax living. However it lacks the modern amenities that Cebu can offer.
I have seen an increase in the US retirees migrating to Cebu and Bohol. In that way their pensions would be streatch 45 times. (1USD = P45)
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Try South Africa, very inexpensive to rent / buy a beach house in one of the coastal towns near one of the coastal cities of Port Elizabeth, East London or Durban. easy infrastructure, shopping and language, long term rental out of peak season as low as US500 a month. Visa problems minimum. Also look at Zambia, Tanzania, Mozambique or Malawi.
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I was living in HK for 18mths without a job, solely on my savings and it does eat one up financially! We all know rent is extremely high in HK; even higher than where I used to live-Hawaii!! Insane. I am now moving to Malaysia during this recession and with my connections, perhaps I can get a job. So Dive Bum if you plan to move to KL for a while, I'll be there ... KL is a neat city and less pretentious than HK! People are humble, friendly and cost of living is low! You can have a decent great meal for less than HK$10!! (no alcohol thou'!). But alcohol is still cheaper than HK. :-)
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jamil
17 yrs ago
I would suggest go to Chili
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Get a year pass plane ticket, and Couchsurf around the world?
www.couchsurfing.com
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Although by no means cheap especially when compared to other parts of SE Asia or couchsurfing, for example, HK is not that expensive if one lives out in NT/Lamma Island/parts of Kowloon, eats locally and avoids western/western style pubs. One can easily get around for much less than 300 USD/month (I do and I live near Admiralty) by taking public transport.
However, I do agree that the recession will provide a number of people with opportunities to really go and explore other parts of the world at a cheaper price than normal... But if you HAVE to stay in HK it doesn't have to break the bank.
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Jams
17 yrs ago
Have you tried taking up a teaching Job.
Some kindergarten or some school which needs native English speakers
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Sorry not to respond earlier to recent posts - I'm currently chilling in Thailand and not surfing so much as usual. It seems ironic that I surf far more while 'at work' than when on holiday, but perhaps this is common to many people. Also to clarify matters for some (caring) folk, I am still being paid a handsome salary for my job in HK. Long may that last. This thread is a 'what if' thread.
Couch surfing sounds interesting. I've not heard the expression before. I shall research it on my return.
The other thing that I'm looking for in my (hypothetical) spell of recessionary living is a quality of life not dissimilar to the current one. That would mean a move from HK as I don't want to live in a small apt/house far from the madding crowd and live on local food...well not local HK food. I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that, I enjoy dim sum from time to time but I've never got into other local food. Love local food in other (SEA) countries, though.
So...my dream location is one where I get to live in a nice house, eat/drink local and Western vittals and ideally get to dive! All for, let's say, USD3,000/month for two. Perhaps a little optimistic but I love to dream.
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Easy in Malaysia! U can live in KL comfortably, and travel inexpensively to nearby states, or even East Malaysia for diving. U can have that quality of life with US$3K a month for two!!
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Right adelaine. good cheap food, good weather, luxury big house or just a moderate 1500sqf condo overlooking KLCC; cheap car/taxi to go about, oh beaches and going to different state trying out different food! So many even offered their houses for us to stay a night or two and treated us like VIP after knowing them for barely 3 hours! Friendly city, great people and great food! Oh, my nasi lemak!!!!
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Yes mscheerful! I know that because I was born and raised over there but left for the States many years ago. Lived in HK for almost 20 mths and going back to Malaysia this month to live for a while ....Oh yeah, the satay, banana leaf curry, char kuew teoy, nasi goreng and the list goes on and on .... :-)
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How about Sri Lanka..cheap as chips these days, gorgeous place, bit of a war, but hey things can happen anywhere right?
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erm, yeah I will be sure to add war zones to the list of places I must go hang out in based that logic.
That being said in SL you have to go looking for that war to really be hit with it, its not so dangerous if you stick the main tourist spots, though those separatists look like they are going to lose HQ and may use terror attacks in tourist locations to strike back.
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I have a different perspective, if you are in the financial line. Unless you plan not to come back to HK, and/or unless you wish to develop a new expertise (e.g. learn about commodities such as palm oil, rubber etc in Malaysia) which will put you in good stead when the market picks up, then I'd not recommend leaving HK. You will be leaving behind contacts, possible opportunities etc. - there is still a lot of private capital around that needs management/expertise. And you want to be around when the phone call comes, not somewhere in Tamil Naidu.
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Still punting commodities !!! dude, that was so last three years.
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If I intended/wanted to work in HKG in the reasonably forseeable future I would definitely stay in HKG, maintaining contacts, and being easily available for interviews.
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Didn't say one HAD to go long on commodities (although I do think they have loads of upside)... Just that if one sat out this recession in Malaysia and learnt useful information, it could only be better for career prospects at the upturn than spending time at the beach and learning how to pick coconuts, or dodging bullets in SL. Think of it as a cheap, unaccredited MBA. But hey, my post above doesn't apply to non-financial workers, and as woods99 said, doesn't apply to those thinking of leaving HK for good. In those cases, climate and cost are the most important factors, and I'd go for Indonesia (but not Bali, which is a tourist trap).
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I got laid off of a banking job a few months ago. I'm not expecting to get anything for a while but will focus on a business that I had built over the last few years. I get some income from this but of course not as much as what I got in banking.
Now to sit out a recession, I plan to spend some time in Southern California. Home prices have come off substantially and there's great opportunities to study as well.
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S Cal is a great choice. I think if one has been prudent and has been saving the last 10 years, the US home market is something to look at over the next 12 months. This may be a once in a lifetime opp to buy a prime US place that would have been impossible just a few years ago. All the best, jannie!
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