I am amazed by the way Hong Kong people work, especially by women in my office. They really work their asses off, seriously. Not that I don't work hard, but work seems to be the only thing in their life. My coworker comes in everyday at 8:30am and stays till well after 8:00pm. I mean literally everyday. She is seriously sick today but does not do anything to take care of herself. Still plans to work all the way to 9:00pm today and weekend too.
Do they all work like this and why? Or I just happen to work with a group of work horses.
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I have noticed the large amount of time spent in the office by HKers, both men and women, too. But I'm not sure it's all work, as in my office long lunches and teas are part of the work pattern. If you factor that in, I'd say HKers don't work more than, say, NYers.
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In my case, it's all work! She seldom goes out for lunch and is frequently on late night conference calls even after going home. Maybe it's just a special case then.
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if you are single and live in a box you called home, wouldn't you want to yourself?
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A lot of ppl mistakenly believe that just cos they work late, that means they're hard working. There is a guy in my office that is on youtube and ebay for most of the day and then has the nerve to say to ppl how he is "super busy" and has to work till 8 or 9 pm "most nights".
But what worries me more about your post is that your colleague is seriously sick and still coming to work to infect everyone else. I hate it when ppl are coughing up a lung and blowing their nose non-stop in the office. Then when you say they should go home, they say "they're fine". I know you're fine, but I'm not fine with you coming in and making the office a cess pool of germs!
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Interestingly, non of the stay-at-office-all-timers in my office are single. Some are married and some even have children. I come from New York, where work life balance is not only recognized but also encouraged and put into practice. Anyway, I choose to go against the norm here and have a balanced life of my own outside of the office box.
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I recognise the pattern you describe. From a Western point of view one could have the perception that they work inefficiently if they cannot get their work finished within the "normal" working hours.
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My experience is - just because they are working late does not mean they are working hard. I find many of the locals do not use their time efficiently and often stay late because that is what is expected of them. They could easily do the same amount of work and leave at a decent time, but will stay as the boss expects them at the office late. My two cents.
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I havent been to the U.S. before. I wonder on New Year's eve, are shops opened for longer hours or they wl shut earlier becasue every one needs to go home to spend time with their families. I was in the UK last month and was very surprised to find out the shopping mall was closed at 4:30 on new year's eve. In Hong Kong we open longer hours because we expect more sales. Like HSBC and BOC hv already announced that some of their branches wl open till 8:00 on the night before CNY. I am not juding who is right and who is wrong. It is basically a culture difference. I do agree though that some people do not work very efficiently and some stay behind just because they want to show to their superior's that they are 'working hard'. But I must say some are really working hard. Especially in small - medium sized companies, work tasks are not very well defined so you really need to work hard in order to finish your work.
Small houses - this does contribute to the situation. There is nothing you can do in the house except becoming a couch potato. Most households got helpers so parents can just leave the parenting job to helpers. I totally dont agree to this but these are facts in Hong Kong.
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jamil
17 yrs ago
Unfortunately thats what hong kong culture is. espacially the local population majority of them don't know how to LIVE life.
Although I would ratehr sit at home and be bored hten work logn hours in Office.
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I think you will find that they think it is frowned upon to leave before the boss does. Me, if i have more work to do than i could do in 'normal' hours then i'd rather get in earl then stay late. I have a life and want to live it!
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Most of you may not realise that no HK bosses wants to see you leave office sharp (if you are gweilos, they probably pardon you!) . Especially in a bad economy, when they see you go before everyone else, they think you are dispensable. I had the experience that when I told a boss I was leaving, he acted as if he didn't hear me and handed me additional work. He was making a statement - you are not allowed to go without my consent! So, even those don't have much to do, they stick around.
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kashn
17 yrs ago
Oh please, give me a break.
They don't work any harder!!! I think a lot of time is being spent on inefficient work, long lunch breaks and not wanting to go home.
I've heard of people staying in the office just to make it look like they're busy and so bosses see that they're working "hard".
The bosses that want you to stay behind for the sake of it are not good bosses. They are in effect supporting inefficiency in the office and no work/life balance!
You cannot be an asset to an organization working like this!
It's a disgrace. I leave work on the dot everyday. No excpetions. I do my work (and eat lunch at my desk if I have to ) but have a life outside of work.
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Interestingly we all seem in agreement here
they stay all hours due a combination of working very inefficiently,need to be seen as hard workers by the boss,part of a power play sometimes(control thing)and lack of outside social life or undesirable home life ie don't really want to get home
its one of the first things i noticed when i came to hk 15 years ago was the op's observation about staff ahnging about the office later than necessary-really blew the myth about long working hours out the water-
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jamil
17 yrs ago
100% agree with kashn. True words have never been spoken.
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Most of the locals at my office stay back after office hours because they would rather stay at work than go home to small and cramped apartments. I find it amazing that the very strong work ethic of the majority of Chinese people doesn't apply to most of the ones who I have worked with in offices. They regularly come to work late, then sit for another 15-30 minutes eating their noodles, not to mention taking personal calls on their mobiles non-stop. Then they stay behind after work because they're very busy.
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I don't believe "they" have no social life, I mean even people who have no family life to go back home to would much rather meet their friends at a karaoke than stay in the office till 8 pm ("they" do have friends, no matter what you like to think)
It's just the way things are here, you don't leave the office early because it makes you look lazy, and it's easy to lose your job.
A local friend of mine once told me she had just lost her job, and explained that her western bf insisted they'd take a holiday in the summer in europe, so they went on a 2 1/2 week tour of europe, visting relatives and friends. She was fired upon returning, because of just that. She explained she wasn't surprised, because even though she had only taken the time she was legally entitled to (plus extra she had got doing overtime), and even though her boss had approved the time off, "you just don't do that here".
What she meant is "you" are just expexcted not to take your full legal paid leave, and especially not all in one chunk.
She didn't mind, she wanted to change jobs anyway, and that's why she had accepted to take the "risk" of taking that holiday.
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Ahkam
17 yrs ago
Many office workers find that they can comes out ahead by out-sourcing family duty to domestic helper. For as long as there is a large gap between office work and the domestic help salary, there is no incentive to quite their job and work at home.
When there is a minimal salary of say $6000 a month for the most basic layer work force (with a min $500 MPF per month) that will be another story. Every household will be thinking if they can afford to pay for a domestic worker.
As more office workers need to go home for domestic duty, they have to leave office in normal hours, like 5.30pm to 6pm. Every company will be forced to consider how to work more efficiently and not longer hours.
When the most basic layer of worker is protected by minimal wage, the next layer will have to work more efficiently to afford the most basic layer. The second layer will have to work a little more efficiently to afford using the first layer. In time, more layers or workers will be thinking how to work more efficiently.
Then raise the mnimal wage a little that will sequeeze the efficiency a little more.
The downside is, properties price and rental cost will drop as cost of labor is rised. More family member cannot afford a full time domestic helper. I heard HKG has over 200,000 Phlipina domestic help along, not including the Thailand and Indonesian.
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mayo
17 yrs ago
Why can't it just be THEY do things differently instead of they aren't as efficient as we are and have no lives? Maybe instead of adding up everyone else's hours, observing their lunch/breakfast menus, monitering phone calls and making assumptions about their social lives we should get on with full lives WE claim to have.
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The problem is bosses hire, fire and promote based on the number of hours worked rather than the quality of the work. People don't stay in the office to avoid going home, they stay out of fear for their jobs
Every time I hire a new local member of staff it takes a month of me kicking them out the door at 6 before they get the message that working hours are there for a reason. It also takes about a month for them to realize I expect a full day’s work which doesn’t include having breakfast at your desk and searching the net for an hour after lunch!
The employees in my company are motivated and work very hard. I would bet money they get more done in 8 hours than 95% of these crazies who work 10-12 hours a day!
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I'll chime in and say there is a lot of pressure to put in the hours, even if one can get it done much faster. And so they come in late (by Western standards), have a two hour lunch, and hang out until 9pm. Not that many don't work hard. I have found that as a rule, the locals are very dedicated and hard working. But in many cases appearances can be a bit deceptive.
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Well done Dannyboy77, my experience is that they work harder but not smarter. The whole idea of automising some processes is totally lost on the local Chinese, there is reticence to any changes (hell, it's hostility actually) and if someone leaves on time this is commented on. One of my colleagues' work system is so antiquitated it's scary - she methodically goes through her files once a week to see if there is an upcoming renewal date, whereby our database would be able to tell her that if she was to populate the system... the term efficient is overused in HK and most people pride themselves of being efficient, whilst my experience is that they are actually not.
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As we are all making generalisations here.. Chinese just work harder then western counterparts. Efficiency is a different issue, but you only need look at opening hours of laundry shops, drink shops etc. It is no surprise that in many markets Chinese make up the vast majority of economic output but only make up a minority of the population (Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand etc). When you go overseas to crappy little villages in Wales, you will invariable have a Chinese take-away that is open late.
Its part of the culture, kids start long hours of study from year dot. Bear in mind most of HK was populated by refugees escaping China in the 60s, who turned up here with nothing. Working hard was not an option.
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SE Asia historically does not have a culture of holidays. Rural Europe traditionally has a culture of long winter holidays for many centuries. The climate does not allow/require you to work the land in the winter, so the farmer sat at home.
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"Well done Dannyboy77, my experience is that they work harder but not smarter. The whole idea of automising some processes is totally lost on the local Chinese, there is reticence to any changes (hell, it's hostility actually) and if someone leaves on time this is commented on. One of my colleagues' work system is so antiquitated it's scary - she methodically goes through her files once a week to see if there is an upcoming renewal date, whereby our database would be able to tell her that if she was to populate the system... the term efficient is overused in HK and most people pride themselves of being efficient, whilst my experience is that they are actually not."
Very true. Of course individuals can vary widely, but the above fits with my observations.
They will do a mind numbingly boring task perfectly for months and years after being told how once (something a typical American would frown upon). But most will not give a thought to automating or in any way improving the workflow (something an American would typically do). Which way is better? Good question. I guess it depends on what needs to be done.
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im sure if people wanted to go home right on time they would, but they don't. big deal. up to them innit?! just because they all work late doesn't mean we have to as well! just as long as the job gets done....
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I am HK Chinese woman . I work from 10am - 7pm at the travel agent . I work very hard , very fast & so efficient .I seldom do Over time .. Maybe some HK ppl not really working properly ( a bit slow ) during their office hours at day time , then they need to do OT . I believe that only small part of them... HK people have been very wellknown as hard working because we would like to make more money , get a better living standard .. give a good life for our children or maintiain the living for our families ( our parents ) As you know that we dont get too much pension / money after retired from our government ... Its always sound good being " hard working than " lazy " . Right ? This is our life style & has been like this way for many years ... why should people complaint about it ? If I would choose from working hard to " drinking at the bar " ..i prefer " working !! Thank you ...
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i guess you dont have a STABLE job .. you have spending lots of time here writing / answering to all difference topics ( today was my first day here reading some advices , and i saw you almost everywhere ) ... or maybe you were a consultant or a writer .... all what i was saying was only my own opionion... you dont have to get such BIG reaction ... take it easy & relax .... Remember you all difference & have difference life !! Take care & Kung Hei Fat Choy to you !!
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MayC
17 yrs ago
I agree with Chui. I am NOT a hongkonger or a mainland Chinese but I am married to one. I think it is unfair of us to judge them like this.
Can you REALLY say that those who stay back late aren't doing a good job? In any country/culture, you will have the good and the bad worker. Those who produce results from their long hours of work and those who waste time during work hours and need to catch up. It is unfair to generalise.
Even those who leave on the dot in other countries - you'll have the good ones who will work efficiently and those who will use those working hours to do personal stuff.
I believe that the Chinese work twice as hard for a reason. Education was seen as a bad thing in the past. There were lots of lost opportunities. The current generation of Chinese are making up for it. They can be what their parents could not. If you look at China now, you'll be able to see how fast they are catching up. They don't take things for granted such as their jobs and they work hard so that they can have a chance of a better life - what is so wrong with that?
If you want to live here, you have to respect that this is the way they do things whether we agree with it or not. Plus none of us have experienced or know anyone in our family who have experienced the same kind of hardships they have.
I have experienced the long working hours myself when I worked as an auditor for a local company. I didn't like it (I was a senior auditor and couldn't leave early) but I respected the fact that they could produce better results than my staff back home (not meaning to generalise, just true in my case). And now that I've lived here for 7 years, I feel that I can at least understand where they are coming from and I accept it.
Please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to attack anyone.... I'm just offering a different perspective.
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My girlfriend is a local Hong Kong officer worker. Sometimes she's finished with her assignment by 4 or 5pm (because she's one of the most efficient workers in her office). However, almost every night, she has to sit around until 9, 10 or sometimes 11pm just to leave at the same time as the person who's just above her in the chain-of-command.
It really has nothing to do with working hard or not. I used to work alongside a local girl who would spend all day on youtube and openrice, and then she'd have to stay well after me to finish whatever was supposed to be done by the end of that day.
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