Posted by
meiji
17 yrs ago
hi everyone, I know it's a funny post title.
But seriously, I am at my wits' end trying to win this battle with my daughter.
She's almost turning 6 years old. Very spirited, and very strong willed child.
I am finding more and more difficult to discipline her.
When she was younger, 3 years old to now.... we can ask her, 2-3 times, she will do what we ask.
Now, lately, even when I say it 10 times, she just laughs at me, and runs off.
This applies to every moment from the time she gets up in the morning, to when she goes to sleep.
I get her up, she doesn't want to wake up.
She never sits at the table to eat a meal properly. (It takes hours to yell and scream to get her to sit down and eat.) If I don't force her to eat, she really will not eat. This morning, she didn't eat her breakfast, went to school, she became dizzy during mid morning.
Then homework, (local school) she won't do homework unless I scream scream scream.... then she will do it, but will fiddle with her pens, pencils, toys, tissue, her hair, never will sit properly.... but when I get MAD enough, she will get it all done in 15 minutes.
My friend's kids, they tell me... would come home, and ASK the mom to let him/her do homework, and would LOVE to eat... STARVING after school. (NEVER happens in my household.)
Getting to lessons, getting to school, doing homework, doing Enopi, piano..... all takes alot of effort to get her to put her shoes on, get her bag, get to the car... always a mad rush. But when she puts her mind to it ,and settle down, she always hand in top notch work, and always have a great lesson.
Is this normal ? Something wrong with my parenting style? Should I stop talking and nagging? Just let her be responsible for her own things? Or what ? If I say it ONCE, and she doesn't listen, then what?
My screaming, and yelling is now completely filtered out by her. I can't think of ONE moment where I say something, or ask her to do something, she would do it on the FIRST ask.
Thanks for any insights.
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i have no kids myself so cannot speak out of experience, but did you ever see these kids discipline shows on tv? supernanny, etc.?
it seems to me she is testing to see how far she can go (and she can obviously go very far with you until you become 'really mad'). in these shows they always establish rules with clear rewards and penalties and then consequently apply them.
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- Use a calm tone. If you yell, she learns this is ok. Very very important.
- Praise profusely when she does the right thing.
- Warn before punishing.
- Use time-outs consistently.
- Punish when she does wrong, not to make you feel better. That is, do not punish in anger.
- Try to say good things first. "I like it when you do x, but now you are doing y. This is wrong". Kids respond (in the long run) better to positive reinforcement.
- Do not allow her to ignore you. If she does consistently, punish her with a time-out.
- She doesn't care that you scream. It has no effect. She knows she is driving you nuts and like the attention. Change the game. Be more clever than she is.
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Ed
17 yrs ago
In another incarnation I did a placement teaching 30+ Grade One kids in Canada. The way to maintain control with one or many children, from my experience at least, is to:
1. Establish clear rules in advance
2. Establish punishment for breaking the rules in advance
3. ALWAYS enforce the rules and the punishment if they are broken.
If you are wishy washy or make statements like 'if you do this again I am going to...' you will definitely fail. The punishment must be firm and fair and consistent so that the child understands the connection between Rules and Consequences.
Screaming and hitting will not work as punishment. The best thing to do is establish in advance various privileges the child values and let them know that if they do not behave then you will revoke one or more of these.
As long as you are fair in applying the rules and punishment I doubt you will have any problems. I had no problem with managing a classroom of kids so long as I stuck to the above formula (I also have strategies for teaching small classes of teens convicted of major crimes if anyone needs help with that....)
Good luck!
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I wanted to add that you shouldn't expect results too quickly. It can take days to see any improvement, and weeks and months for behavior to really turn around.
"If you are wishy washy or make statements like 'if you do this again I am going to...' you will definitely fail."
Indeed. Always follow through. If you say something like "if you do it again you'll get a time out" you then have to make good on the promise.
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http://www.pediatricservices.com/prof/prof-07.htm
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agree with what everyone has said.
when she's ignoring u, it's not acceptable cause it's just plain rude. when she does that, hold her in front of you and talk to her close-up making eye-contact. if she still struggles to get away, hold her face with ur hands and make her give eye contact. use a firm voice (not loud & not shouting) so she knows u're serious. pause for a few seconds after u've finished talking, then ask her if she understands, then have her repeat. that's what i did with my kids when i was teaching and it worked most of the time.
in the end, you are the adult and u should be in control of the situation. but it's hard and it'll take time. like everyone's said, dun expect results so quickly. since she's already established what makes u go bonkers and what she can get away with, it'll take time to 're-train' her.
with the homework, let her try not completing it and bringing it back to school. perhaps pressures from the teacher will do the trick. she needs to realize her own responsibility to her work without you nagging at her to do it.
good luck
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jem
17 yrs ago
Hi. I agree with the super nanny comments, but also think that maybe you should factor in some quiet time for your daughter. Her schedule sounds pretty full on ... I would suggest ensuring she has enough time for unstructured play (not tv, video games, etc.) so she can use her imagination and relax a bit. She might just be frustrated that she never gets a minute to herself to just play ... I've got 3 kids and they get very frustrated if they don't get time each day to just relax and play with their lego, cars, colouring, etc.
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meiji
17 yrs ago
Thank you to EVERYONE for your replies. (Except Yoda Nirvana 's )
Maybe Ed will consider deleting that sick and abusive reply.
The problem I have is I have to work, and during the day my helpers take care of my children, they are SUPER responsible, and very very caring and excellent helpers, but my daughter is taking advantage of it..... not listening to them at all.
When I come home from work, my helpers basically are exhausted from coaxing her, and asking her to behave....
I don't want to teach my helpers to discipline like me because I don't know if they might get out of hand? So far, my helpers never raise their voice, and just keep talking to her, and coaxing her, and bribing her, and when it gets REALLY bad, they have to call me (while I am working) to talk to my daughter. What can I do over the phone? I can only tell my daughter to listen to our helpers, or else, she will lose her TV privilege.... then she screams in the phone at me ... "NO NO NO !!!" and hangs up on me.
Sigh.
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cd
17 yrs ago
Whatever strategy you decide to use, you have to involve your helpers. They are with her for most of the time, they need to discipline her in the same way, re training won't work unless all adults in the house show consistancy and use the same methods. Otherwise your daughter will still play one off against the other.
And agree with jem, maybe cancel one or two of the afterschool activites for a while. Give her time just to chill out and play, read a book, colour etc.
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well i think the fact that you don't allow your helpers to discipline her is really where this comes from.
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"don't want to teach my helpers to discipline like me because I don't know if they might get out of hand? "
As cd mentions, your helpers and you need to be on the same page and do the same things. Otherwise the kids will be confused, leading to more discipline problems. What's worse, they'll start playing you off against each other.
Have frequent meetings with your helpers about your child. We speak to our helper at least daily about the kids and what is going on. Figure out what works and what doesn't. Have a consistent plan but don't be afraid to alter course if you're not getting anywhere.
Ensure your child knows that the helpers and you speak with the same voice. However, don't allow your helpers to say things like "don't do x because Mommy will be mad". That just makes them proxies. It needs to come "directly" from them. "Don't do this because it is bad".
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There are many factors at work here. I would suggest that you talk to her teacher and ask how she behaves at school. Do they have the same problems with getting her to do things. Does she pay attention at school or is she really active. Is she really quiet at school but not performing? If they don't see the same things that you do, then you should look seriously at modifying some of ways you interact and empowering your maids who hold the main behavioural opportunities.
If the school is seeing exactly the same thing, your child may have some attentional problems that would benefit from an assessment and some support.
Don't rely on caring strangers for advice for one of the most important things in your life. If you are more than just annoyed, please consider meeting with someone who can quickly and effectively help you find answers.
No offence caring strangers.
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You are her parent, not her friend. Do not confuse the two. When she is an adult, you may become her friend, but not now. By six years old her core personality has been formed, but you can still make a difference. For this kind of child there must be a clear set of rules and consequences, which are up to you. If you demand much from the child, then demands and consequences must be high. If you demand little, then they are little. These guidelines are up to you. Good luck.
Sensei
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Here's an article relating to child development in HK. It isn't 100% related to the problem mentioned but you may contact the person who wrote it for some help...page 17
http://content.yudu.com/Library/A162sc/HealthyTimesNewspape/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yudu.com%2Fitem%2Fdetails%2F45393%2FHealthy-Times-Newspaper-Hong-Kong-Vol.-4
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Z
17 yrs ago
First, stop yelling. Completely. If she is tuning you out, all it is doing is raising your own stress hormone levels and making your job as a parent more difficult. When you need to say something to her, first prepare yourself and then say it in the calmest quiet voice that you can muster.
I'm also going to suggest a series of parenting books that you may find useful -- Parenting with Love and Logic [Cline and Fay] and Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood [Fay and Fay].
It sounds like what you are looking for is how to devise a consistent philosophy for both you and your child. This series is all about how to encourage kids to take responsibility for their actions -- the first Love and Logic is more aimed towards preteens/teens, but the Early Childhood volume is directly applicable to your situation. The trick is basically to develop natural consequences for misbehavior -- for example, not wanting to get dressed in the morning results in the natural consequence of going to school in one's pajamas, and the teasing that that would entail at school; not wanting to eat results in missed meals [to make this work it is imperative that she is not getting snacks outside of regular mealtimes].
Another suggestion that I'm going to make for you and your sanity is to sit down immediately and make a list of the 10 behaviors that most irritate you. Then choose one to work on. It sounds like your family situation has not encouraged consistent limits on her behavior, and that will take time for the adults to learn as well. Then make a list of the 10 privileges that she most enjoys. Remind yourself that these are privileges, not rights, and cut all of them off cold turkey. Let her know how she can earn these privileges back [half an hour of TV after her homework is finished and checked for example], but only at times when she asks for them, and only in a quiet rational voice. Also make sure to be consistent with your rewards -- so if she does her homework remind her that she has earned the privilege of a half hour of TV, etc.
This is going to be a difficult ride, but it will eventually get easier. Good luck. And keep us posted.
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Hi meiji. My eldest daughter IS ALOT as yours. She'll be 7 in July. She was raised by my mom (grandma) and was spoiled by her. So when she started living with me, she finds it difficult to follow my rules. Also, what adds to the problem is my mom getting in the way.
I would get frustrated at times and yell at her too but of course, that wouldn't do any good to neither of us. Like what the above posters said, you have to be clear with the rules and when you set punishments, you have to be firm.
That worked with my daughter and of course, whenever I'm not around, she goes away with her tantrums because she knows my mom cannot stand seing her eat right.
If your daughter doesn't concentrate doing her homework, do you do it for her? Do you help her put her shoes on? Do you assist her in doing things that she can bo by herself but just takes her forever?
My mom would help my daughter get ready for school and I've always insisted to just let her do it herself. Mom would tell me she'd be late, I say, let her come to school late and she'll take responsibility.
One time I let her come to school without a homework. She did not want to do it herself because my mom would always do it for her. Next day, her teacher made her do it as school.
Just be firm and stick to your rules, everything will be fine.
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Z
17 yrs ago
Another thing that WILL help is if you make a mental list of the things that she does that make you happy -- things that are under her control [for example, sharing a cupcake or letting a younger kid play with a toy first] -- and tell her when you notice her doing it. The crazy thing about kids is that they crave attention so much that if they aren't getting enough of the good kind, they will do everything under the sun to supplement with the bad kind. Along these lines [am not sure if she is too old for this already, but it's worth a shot] is to spend 15 min with her at some point during the day talking quietly about how much you love her and how proud you are of her, using specific examples of things she has done. Be sure not to steal the praise away -- for example DO NOT do something like this "Cherub, I really liked it when you ate that strange food that your grandma offered you; I wish you would eat what I cook." My eldest is still really young, but we have a little ritual: as she is falling asleep, we talk about her day. I will definitely mention if there was something traumatizing [she is terrified of dogs], but then say how brave she was even though she was scared. She is so young that we are really reinforcing her rituals when we do this, but she always nods her head when I tell her that I'm proud of her for something, or how she managed something that was really hard.
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Dano
17 yrs ago
Have you considered taking her to an OT? (Occupational Therapist)
Some children are more visual than auditory and it doens't matter how many times you try to ask them to do something they will lose focus, be unable to stay on task and be distracted by every little thing on the way eg/ between the door and the bathroom to wash their hands. Does she transition well between tasks at home? It sounds not. How about at school? How is she transitioning there? A lot of children need to be asked repeatedly to do a task, particularly if they are focused on somehting else. Do you attempt to remove other stimulation from the environment when you wish for her to do somehting or transition? If she is visual, or even if she is not, it helps to get down to her level, put your hands on her shoulders with some pressure (not harsh), look her in the eye and tell her clearly what it is time to do now. It can also help her to organise herself if you get her a whiteboard and she does her plan, divide into 4-6 squares and do a picture or the word of each task. when she gets off task ask her or lead her back to the board to look at the board. If she hasn't done a task by the time allocated, move on to the next one and don't give her the chance to go back to it. You could also use kitchen timers to help motivate her.
Screaming or yelling at her is unlikely to help, it is not how you want her to try to get things done either. It will probably just stress everyone out and teach her a behaviour you don't really want her to adopt or use in the playground or at school. You don't want her to be motivated out of fear either, but if it happens often enough she will no longer fear it, it will just be normal. If she's rude, I tell her firmly that that is not OK and walk away, if she follows tell her you are doing somehting else now as you don't want to be around rude people. She'll hopefully learn that being rude doesn't get her what she wants and makes people not want to be her friend.
Good luck, I hope it gets easier for you.
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meiji
17 yrs ago
Hi Everyone,
No school for my kids.... at first thought, I was very scared of what I am going to do to keep my kids busy, and not out of control while I have to work and didn't have any plans for school to be out at this early schedule.
BUT, I have tried some of the techniques and suggestions here, stopped yelling, and happy to report, it has been a bit better this week.
Thank you to all of your advice, I learned alot, and do see how I have to change and keep learning how to be a better and more effective parent.
My daughter is a real challenge to raise.... but I love my children more than anything else in this world, so I am willing to make any changes necessary.
helpers are happier too because of the recent changes... BUT, keeping our fingers cross, as these new things I am applying is still quite NEW and FRESH to my daughter... hope it lasts!
Report again later.
THANKS !!!
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Z
17 yrs ago
yeziMM, I don't see how smacking her kid is going to do anything but exacerbate the situation.
meiji, so glad that things are getting better. you are really brave to try to figure out what you can do, and not just make this all about your kid. she is really lucky to have a mother like you [even though it will be another 25 years before she realizes it!].
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