I have been offered a job by my existing company in Atlanta. I am married and have two small kids - one of whom will be going to Year 1 with ESF next fall. I am still in the process of deliberating on all available options but would like to understand what factors should one consider before taking a decision, specifically,
1) From a living standard perspective, what % hike in salary should be acceptable in order to compensate for Tax/Living Expenses
2) How much does a decent private school cost in Atlanta ?
3) If my wife plans to work, how much would day care cost ?
4) Is it possible to take our helper along ? Minimum wage difference ?
5) How much does rent does one need to pay for a good house in a good neighbourhood
6) I dont hold a US passport, so any tips on type of VISA we should aim for and how long does it take to get a green card ?
Greatly appreciate all advice
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1) From a living standard perspective, what % hike in salary should be acceptable in order to compensate for Tax/Living Expenses
Typically the salary would go lower in the US than in HK, especially if you don't move to, say, NYC or SF.
2) How much does a decent private school cost in Atlanta ?
Don't know about Atlanta but the one we looked at in CT cost about 3x what the top ones cost here. Your results may vary.
3) If my wife plans to work, how much would day care cost ?
About US$1000/child/month in CT. Probably less in Atlanta. Note that if you have 2+ kids, a nanny starts becoming a good option economically.
4) Is it possible to take our helper along ? Minimum wage difference ?
Mostly it will probably take quite a bit of lawyer work to get her a visa. Minimum wage in the US varies per state if memory serves. You're looking at US$8+ per hour, but I may be out of date.
5) How much does rent does one need to pay for a good house in a good neighbourhood
Check this site: www.zillow.com. You'll get values for pretty much any house in the US. That should give you some idea.
6) I dont hold a US passport, so any tips on type of VISA we should aim for and how long does it take to get a green card ?
L1 visa if memory serves. You can apply for a green card after two years+ if I remember correctly. Before you do so, be very careful about checking the effects of global taxation. If you ever move away from the US, as a green card holder or citizen you will be obligated to keep paying federal taxes on income anywhere in the world.
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Moving to the US = paying more for everything except for housing. I haven't heard people getting paid more by moving to the US unless you get a significantly more senior position.
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Oski
17 yrs ago
After your initial settling in period of, say 6 months, you will find cost of living in suburban Georgia significantly cheaper than HK. $2000/mo rents you a huge house by HK standards. Half million buys a mini-mansion in most neighborhoods. the previous posters numbers about private school and child care are way too high for Georgia. Connecticut is easily twice as expensive. The average income in Fairfield county (that's where I think the previous poster lived.) is close to 180k, Georgia is closer to 60k. Georgia is in the deep south, and it is cheap.
You biggest problem will not be cost, it will be cultural. Georgia is the South. I can tell you, it is a different world. Remember some of the TV coverage about New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina? Well, Atlanta has alot more in common with New Orleans than with New York. One more thing, Georgia is close to the heart of the Confederacy during the Civil War. The passage of 140 years has not erased all its legacies. Race relations can be tense.
Depending on your own cultural background, you may find very difficult to blend in.
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"the previous posters numbers about private school and child care are way too high for Georgia. Connecticut is easily twice as expensive."
Good point.
"The average income in Fairfield county (that where I think the previous poster lived.)"
Indeed. The most expensive place in CT too. ;)
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Thanks guys, have been doing some research as well and looks that for around USD 2 K/month one can get a fabulous house in buckhead area in atlanta......
I am not sure about the cultural aspect mentioned above "very difficult to blend in" as long as one is working in a multinational company and living in a good neighbourhood...I think it should be better than living in HK where the locals dont want to mix at all
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The following are my thoughts and experiences. Your results may vary. It very much depends on who you are.
Having lived in the US for almost six years, both in Los Angeles and in CT, and at very different stages in my life, I have found it much harder to "blend in" (and I use the term loosely) in the US than in HK. Here in HK, I live among expats, in many ways "my people". I'll never be one of the locals, but I have a lot in common with other expats regardless of nationality. In the US, I lived in neighborhoods where most had been in the area since birth. While they were nice people, it could be hard to find common ground. Most Americans, while they come in all sorts, also have a bit of a mental curtain about things outside the US. They didn't really "get me". ;) I made many times more friends in 6 months in HK than in 6 years in the US.
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Yes, I agree about the "mental curtain" and thats why an international executive like me is being imported to give some of them a more sane view of the world outside...thats my guess....;)
but I have worked with several nationalities in HK and do find Americans to be very easy going....get along with with most of them quite well, so "blending in" really depends on the degree you want to achieve. My own culture is quite strong ( am Indian) so will not be dying to turn into an American but yes, as they say..." when in Rome....."
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axptguy 38 what is your nationality? it also depends what your nationality is, if you are not American or maybe from an exotic culture, obviously people who lived in the same place all their lives are not going to embrace you as one of them right away and that is true for hk as well, other than expats as you rightly mentioned.
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I am from Northern Europe. But true as you say.
I have long ago accepted that I am not "mainstream". I don't really fit in very well anywhere. I doubt I would fit in back in my home country. I never did when I lived there. I was the odd one out. I have no problem with it. Expats are "my people" if anyone is, and a fine bunch they are. ;)
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"I have long ago accepted that I am not "mainstream". I don't really fit in very well anywhere. I doubt I would fit in back in my home country. I never did when I lived there. I was the odd one out. "
You make your self sound like a pariah. Why didn't you fit in, from all your friendly advice you don't sound strange or weired at all. Maybe you are a loner and think others don't like you, when maybe they do...You sound a bit like a teenager when you say these things, are you really 38:) Don't be so hard on yourself. I am sure you are fine!
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purefit, you are over-analyzing my comments. ;)
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"If you ever move away from the US, as a green card holder or citizen you will be obligated to keep paying federal taxes on income anywhere in the world."
As I understand it, a green card can be renounced. Renouncing US citizenship however is quite another thing and financially prohibitive. So the former keeps your options open, whilst the latter almost closes them.
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Not quite. A green card can be renounced "immediately" only within 8 years of getting one. After that, the penalty is the same as renouncing citizenship. You have to pay a lump sum equivalent to seven years of taxes.
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I see. I didn't know that. I had an uncle who renounced it, but he had been a holder for perhaps less than eight years back in the late eighties, early nineties, and was fed up of paying the additional taxes.
Ironically he has ended up living there anyway post retirement.
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You never know where life will take you. ;)
"Leaving options open" doesn't really work with Green Cards nowadays in any case. You have to prove intent to live in the US. If you stay out for more than a year you need a re-entry visa. All sorts of barriers to just flying in every 6-12 months to show the flag. Either you live in the US and eventually become a citizen, or you are figuratively kicked out. I am not sure if you still have to pay taxes if you are forced to give up the Green Card, but I must assume the IRS will hunt you down whatever you do. ;)
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Wow, seven years worth of taxes ? I will have to research this one. lyrics from the eagle song "hotel california' come to my mind - "you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave."
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Quite. If you want to give up your green card, the info is here: http://hongkong.usconsulate.gov/lpr_abandoning_permanent_resident_status.html . You'll need to fill out an I-407.
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I see, for me personally, I'd rather make the annual pilgrimage for the eight years and fulfil the criteria and leave the option open to renounce, rather than convert to full citizenship immediately. I think to maintain PR in most places, there is some sort of criteria that needs to be fulfilled, so that is par for the course.
I don't think you need to live there as a holder, but I can only speak from my memory of what my uncle did. He got one living in Hong Kong, qualifying because he was well educated as an academic. Course things may have changed a lot because we are talking almost a quarter century ago. TBH, I cannot remember him making annual pilgrimages either to the US.
I do remember the b*tching about paying taxes though!!
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Well, as the rules are nowadays just making the pilgrimage is not enough. You have to prove that you live in the US. The 5-10 years have seen a significant tightening of the criteria. You can't have your cake and eat it anymore.
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Surely paying tax and turning up every year is good enough to signal intent ? I mean beyond that, they could ask for people to have invested some amount as well, or own property, but that sounds a little unreasonable for the average joe.
Really the taxation issue or desire to keep the option open to renounce, only applies to the well off. I mean it would be meaningless to someone who fell under the US$80,000 annual income threshold. Whether they hold a green card or citizenship means nothing to their Federal tax liability
And really in terms of marginal tax, after deducting for local taxes paid it only becomes a concern after say perhaps US$100K. So that sounds to me like regulating for the albeit wealthy few (who do contribute a lot), at the expense of the average individual who earns less and may have decided to take a couple of two year contracts abroad for financial reasons.
I don't know the in's and out of it, and never lived there, just visited, but it just sounds a bit draconian, and a little unreasonable on the government's part.
Still I suppose when has it ever been the rule for governments to be reasonable as far as tax or any other policy goes.
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"Surely paying tax and turning up every year is good enough to signal intent ? I mean beyond that, they could ask for people to have invested some amount as well, or own property, but that sounds a little unreasonable for the average joe."
The legal advice we have had says that you should try to own a home, have credit accounts, and so forth. They are quite tough.
"it just sounds a bit draconian, and a little unreasonable on the government's part."
Having dealt with the US Immigration department both as a working visa and a green card holder, I can testify to the fact that they are quite draconian and often unreasonable. ;)
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