Posted by
axptguy38
16 yrs ago
I don't know any such doctors, but I will note that you may have trouble getting your kid into (private) pre-school and school without vaccinations.
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"BTW - why dont some schools accept kids that have not been vaccinated? What are they and the vaccinated kids worried about? They have had the vaccine? It's just propaganda. More pressure to vaccinate."
I assume because no school wants a polio or smallpox outbreak on the grounds. And while we are on polio and smallpox: If vaccines are propaganda, why exactly did these diseases practically disappear from the human population when vaccines were introduced?
"I know kids that have not been vaccinated and are extremely healthy."
Of course. They are protected by living in a population that, by and large, is vaccinated. Since the diseases vaccines protect against are controlled, the non-vaccinated kids are unlikely to get them. But this only works BECAUSE most everyone else has the vaccine.
Just because the non-vaccinated kids you know are extremely healthy does not mean ALL non-vaccinated kids are extremely healthy. You can't make statistics from anecdote.
I challenge you to find evidence that children without vaccinations are MORE healthy than ones with. Also, go ask a farmer if he would let his cows go unvaccinated, and what would happen.
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"I know kids that have not been vaccinated and are extremely healthy."
And I know someone who did get one of these viruses and knows about it for life. Me.
Don't for one second think that by not having vaccinations done your kids will be safe. Should they pick up one of these there is a possibility of death and more likely permanent damage. That will stay with them forever. For me it meant not being able to pursue what I wanted to do in life and having to take another path, something that will always be a regret.
All my kids are vaccinated, as someone who knows what can actually happen I certainly wouldn't put this down to propaganda. The risks are very real and I grew up in a rich western country not in Asia where viruses and diseases flourish.
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Wolverine x, you opened the can of worms yourself so don't be surprised if other people jump in and have opinions. It is a public forum and some thread drift is inevitable. Also you started asking questions like "Why would schools not accept..." and making comments about children and their health. That, for good or bad, opens up for discussion. If you had wanted a narrower discussion you should stopped at the initial post.
I think a lot of people are staying in the background trying not to say anything about your choice. Certainly I have been holding way back. But I won't any longer. Maybe I won't change your mind but I hope I can change someone else's. Here is my opinion: Not vaccinating your kids is child abuse and just as bad as if you were beating them with a stick. I despair at the fact that in our supposedly enlightened age people can be so naive.
"you have not done as much research about it as I have, and that's a fact."
How would you know?
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Sheer passive aggressiveness for no reason other that the read of a few websites.
You don't care for anyone's beliefs but your own. My mother was the same and for what she did to me she is as guilty as hell of child abuse. If your kids go through the same thing and feel the same about you then that will be your fault, not to mention that what you have done to them you have to live with for the rest of your life.
"you have not done as much research about it as I have, and that's a fact."
And you quite clearly have not seen the damage that can be done, I have and live with it everyday and that is a fact. Shall we discuss further?
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just for your info I like the Mercola website.
You may find 'project rainbow' a useful arena in HK.
http://www.rainbowproject.org/
I'm unsure if they have a list of doctors but they specialize in providing support for autistic children that have been harmed by vaccines, so it may be a good start.
I agree with you that vaccines are harmful, just like tobacco companies will never admit their products cause cancer, don't expect pharma companies to say that their products do harm. I'm glad that even though it is a minority view (at this stage) their are people open minded enough to do their own research, and dont just follow the crowd. Good luck and hopewfully they will be of some assistance - if they do provide a list of doctors then please do post here as i would be good to share.
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Asking for help and showing attitude, doesnt look very nice though.
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Z
16 yrs ago
positive comments:
cara, you are positively a wonderful person. you always have such nice and insightful comments here.
I positively would never let my kids attend a school [public or private] that did not insist that all kids be fully vaccinated. Probably because I am a scientist [PhD, genetics], and asiaxpatguy's comment that you can't make statistics from anecdote really resonates with me.
If you have actually done your research, I am positive that you have CHOSEN to ignore data such as measles outbreaks among unvaccinated populations in the US [http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm57e501a1.html]. Alternatively, you are one of those people who "just doesn't trust the government."
Positively.
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hi...
cannot give you doctors' names but can only tell you that I have done all my baby check ups at the regular government clinics with the doctor on duty. I have refused all vaccination until 20 months and was never bothered nor questioned much by the doctor. When we wanted to put our baby in the nursery at 21 months, we were asked for the vaccination record. So we only made a few as per the doctor's recommendation at that time and had her signed a paper saying that vaccination was being undertaken..
i have never been asked anything else since, so haven't done any more vaccination. my child is now 5 years and attending the public school.
so, you could just try your luck.
as for the schools, i always thought that private was more lenient than public and would normally not refuse any child for such an issue.
but maybe should you look into the doctors into homeopathy or chiropractice.
i think I once read about a name on a less known hong kong babies website. else you may wish to ask the LLL or Annerley of they know anyone. btw, annerley does baby clinic and i doubt they would push you into vaccination if you don't want.
PS: and just for general information to others, all 'mortality' data dropped first thanks to a better hygiene and not due to vaccination!!!
rePS: cara, I think someone already told you once that writing in capital letters in forums is equivalent to shouting .. so who's aggressive here?
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"but maybe should you look into the doctors into homeopathy or chiropractice."
Those aren't physicians. It's like asking a lawyer for advice on piloting a plane. Homeopathy is totally lacking in any scientific basis (i.e. there is no evidence of any effects) while chiropractics, while scientifically sound, has to do with bones and joints. BTW homeopathy should not be confused with "natural medicine", which does have quite a few good things going for it. In fact many "western" medicines have herbal ingredients.
"PS: and just for general information to others, all 'mortality' data dropped first thanks to a better hygiene and not due to vaccination!!!"
Yes. However that does not mean that mortality didn't drop due to vaccination as well. For example polio did not disappear when sanitation improved. Waving the hygiene flag, which, yes, did immensely improve public health, will not make the proven effects of vaccines magically disappear.
"as for the schools, i always thought that private was more lenient than public and would normally not refuse any child for such an issue."
Private schools have the right to refuse service. They also are dependent on fees. In other words they would rather refuse someone than have (many) parents make a fuss about that someone. Public schools have an obligation to take anyone, so they will be more lenient.
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teme
16 yrs ago
Hi, I possibly know of a doctor who could advise and lead you...which was I believe your question.
However I have to say that given the stength of opinion voiced here, there is no way I would post a name on this forum.
Also... just as a side issue, my sister, who is almost 48yrs, (to put the issue in perpestive), is unable to be vaccinated as she has a severe reaction to ANY vaccination. I know things may have changed, but basically I am just saying that all bodies are different.
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Question. Why does Mercola only allow you to view when signed up?
Second question. Why does the picture of the supposed expert look like a leader of a cult.
Third question. Why do they not actually give information on what can happen should you get one of these nasties?
"I agree with you that vaccines are harmful"
And the alternative. You have indeed studied that I presume?
So, so far we have been given a website that leads to, let's put it nicely, a load of methane producing bovine created waste.
I say again, open your eyes and see exactly what the alternative can be. We're not just talking MMR here. We are talking lifelong or death sentences.
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"evildeeds with ramble something useless"
As someone who has lived with the consequences and made it plain what that has meant in life then to pass that off as rambling something useless is just plain nasty and abusive. Do you kick homeless people in the street as well?
I give advice as someone who has lived with this and also as a father of 4 children. If you don't like that then the person who shouldn't be here is yourself. You are without doubt just like my mother was, self opinionated and unable to listen to the views of anyone else. That makes you an extremely selfish person. I can only hope that your kids never have to go through what I did.
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Wolverine,
I guess everyone here were trying to give their own opinions. If you are so convinced that what you think is right, then dont post any questions. If you are so self-confident, you would have got your way by now and not posted questions here and insulted people who have given their valuable advice to many other posts here and who exist here longer than you do.
If you don't have the guts to debate, don't post questions here!....If you are so convinced that your research is good enough, you would have become a scientist by now. Being a mother, you even dont have the least self-respect, what do you expect your children to learn from you tomorrow? To be rude and disrespectful?
Learn some manner! Appreciate people who give you their opinions, if people like you start to show their attitude and tell people to shut up, no one will post anything on these forums. Its open to public, expect all kinds of comments.
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Ed, before you omit my reply here as being rude or offensive, you may also want to advice Wolverine alittle on the way she've behaved to others on this forum.
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Ed
16 yrs ago
Let's all be friends in here :)
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I personally have found this forum to be very helpful. I would particularly like to thank cara and axptguy38 for sharing their advices and experiences.
If others dont appreciate you for what you have to say, please ignore them and do keep on helping those of us who do.
Thank you.
HF
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