Posted by
jaime
15 yrs ago
I am not sure what I can do about this situation.
This morning my domestic helpers sister was sent back home via immigration when she arrived.
Legally, she is allowed entry into HK for 14 days as a tourist. She does not speak english very well (indian nationality) but they asked her why she was here and they said she could not articulate what she was doing here and for how long she was here. I do not think they offered her a interpreter when bombarding her with questions.
She had a return ticket for the 12th march and told them it was recently her sisters birthday and we brought her over to visit 100% truth (not working here)
She had our phone numbers, address to prove she had accommodation etc whilst she was here, so she was going to be our guest.
Immigration phoned my husabnd to say they were sending her home because she couldn't answer the questions they asked. We explained she had limited english, was very scared (as she had phoned her sister and said immigration were laughing and yelling at her for being here) was here to visit her sister, we were responsible for her whilst she was here and she showed them the return ticket, we said we would come to the airport if need be and sign that she would leave the country on the 12th with her return ticket etc and they still did not let her in. they told HER she was leaving because she could not provide HK $ and had no way of staying here. Even though we confirmed we would take care of her (we are a western couple)
They then just put her on the flight without any full explanation.
Since this, I have been told by her sister she was made to take off her clothes and stand naked by female officers. I am assuming some sort of strip search just in case she was trying to bring something in.
This has now made me extremely angry and believe there has been a racial motivation behind their decision let alone abuse by making her take off her clothing. We have lost money for the air tickets which they said there would be no compensation.
We asked how can we bring her for a visit in the future and they said to get a visa from immigration before hand. However, as an indian she is allowed 14 days entry, she was not here to work so I can't see why we would have to apply for a visa before hand.
Does anyone have any advice on what we should do?
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I would file a proper complaint.
I would also contact police to ask what right immigration has to conduct a strip search under these circumstances.
There must be a complaints division under Immigration Department.
I'm sure the Philippine Consulate can help you too as there are some groups that support the rights of migrant workers in HK, and they might be able to tell you what to do.
You can also write a letter to the editor of the South China Morning Post asking publicly an explanation from the Immigration Department about this treatment.
It sounds extremely racist and there appeared to be no sound reason to have a humiliating strip search conducted, nor any reason for her to be sent home. I would definately definately follow it up and try to have the immigration officers concerned reprimanded in some way. They should not be allowed to get away with this type of behaviour.
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jaime
15 yrs ago
thanks - i agree - we were speechless after talking to them. She actually is from India so will contact the Indian consulate. She wasn't here to work she was just here to visit her sister for her sister's birthday!
If i brought my sister in from australia for a visit for my birthday I am sure they would not question her this way!
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I think that group is called the Migrant Workers Association. Even though the guest isn't working here nor Filipino, at least the migrant workers know how to deal with such complaints.
Could also try the Equal Opportunities Board??
You should have asked the full names of the immigration officers concerned.
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jaime
15 yrs ago
wow, that is just crazy - for no reason at all. so unjust.
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jaime
15 yrs ago
Yes, I understand your comment but she had 100% support from us, we were looking after her and they had our address / phone number my husbands employment records etc and a return confirmed ticket. So its not one of "those" cases you are referring too.
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Yes, it is suspicious that poor people come to HK for a holiday and it's true, there are many many cases of South Asians who are economic migrants, but are posing as refugees so they can stay here.
But at the same time, Jaime's case was fully supported by the employers with a return ticket. It doesn't seem like the Immigration Department is acting with discretion and is just banning anyone who fits that profile from entering the country.
Very unfortunate for those people who are legitimately visiting family. In other words, if that race of people is being blacklisted, then everyone within that race is unfairly targeted.
I would still go ahead to see if you can file a complaint anywhere, Jaime. I may amount to nothing, but it's definately unfair treatment that should be highlighted and explained.
It's like that case about the two Asians (maybe from Pakistan?) who were not allowed to open bank accounts because bank policy was not to allow people from certain "terrorist" countries to have an account. This matter was reported in the press and forwarded to the Equal Opportunities Commission.
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Just to add... Jaime, I think you should write a letter to the editor. Basically, we understand that Immigration has these rules to prevent economic migrants and overstayers coming to HK and working illegally... but the big question remains: what supporting documents are you supposed to provide in legitimate cases. You thought you did everything right, and it turned out to be a waste of time, effort and money because the guest was simply turned around and sent back home. This is a question that everyone should know the answer to, because your case is not unique. So it's need a public letter, with a public reply written in the paper!!!
That's my two cents worth on this topic... :-)
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jaime
15 yrs ago
Yes, I will do. The main thing I am personally angry at is that they made a 21 year old girl who couldn't speak much english take off ALL her clothes even underwear - AFTER they told her she was going back to India. NOT as she was coming into Hong Kong. When she asked if she could use the phone to tell us they were making her take off clothes they said no.
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jaime
15 yrs ago
She had no alcohol, no cigarettes - nothing but some gifts for her sister and some indian sweets. She only had a small travel bag, nothing too big. But yes, we will write to the SCMP after talking with both consulates
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Suggest you COMPLAIN long and LOUD to the Director of Immigration via letter and the SCMP, etc….this is TYPICIAL of a few yahoos at the border who have a little power….their supervisor should have handled this better and therefore should be brought on the carpet too….find out EXACTLY the time and date of the incident and request that there be a full investigation into this racist related interrogation.
That all being said….ANY immigration officer in any country has the absolute right and duty to refuse a visitor based on sound grounds….his decision (in a civilized world) is subject to a review by the officer / supervisor in charge at that time (if the visitor presses)….
You should ALWAYS ask for EXACT names of officers when dealing with the authorities so that they then KNOW they are being held accountable for their actions…you should ALWAYS ask for the supervisor or officer in charge….sometimes they do have more sense…..also…never underestimate the POWER of lawyers…..a well-placed call from YOUR lawyer could have saved the day…..small money for a good chance at the result you wanted to achieve…
Big Red Indian
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Oski
15 yrs ago
I fully sympathize with your friend. The poor girl had been put through an ordeal she did not deserve.
From your description of the event, I think we can draw the following observations: 1) the immigration/customs officers were rude, and racist. 2) they acted within the bound of their authorities.
Visa on arrive, does not mean the visit has a legal right to enter HK for however many days stated by the rules. It means the visitor can "apply" for a visa of that many days on arrival. It is fully within the immigration officers power to reject anyone. A strip search, although humiliating, is also within the power of the customs officer. In most countries, the customs officers power is very broad. He/she can order a body search on just about anyone, for any reason (in some countries, it can be as simple as random sampling.) Appearing nervous answering questions is a very valid cause for ordering a body search. (sometimes, even body cavity search! next time visiting another country, remember not to be rude to the customs officer. :-)
You can try writing to the media, but I doubt it will get you anywhere. About the only thing you can do is to file a complaint with both the Indian consulate, and HK immigration.
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jaime
15 yrs ago
Thanks orangeman, I am always up to objective thoughts.
Firstly, she was going to be staying under our roof, I work from home, I know what goes on in my household. We told them they could give her just 2 or 3 day entry we didn't care if it wasn't 14 days but just to see her sister and we would 100% guarantee she would be back on the flight within the timeframe so there would have been no time to work. So yes, our jobs and security in HK would have been on the line too with that guarantee.
Secondly, we know our helper and her family, I know its hard for some people to believe and the immigration man couldn't get his head around it, but there are families out there at do treat their helpers incredibly well and appreciate the hard work they put in. Hence, bringing her sister out her for a birthday celebration - nothing more, nothing less. What's it matter if they are a helper, student etc - if they fit the rules like she did with accommodation, return ticket and support.
I understand all the reasons why countries have boarder security - that is not in anyway my issue.
I am not out to cause a stir with immigration in general - I do however believe that people in the position of power that these men had abused it because they saw a frighten young girl who had no one to stand up for her. Even as a western older woman, I would be intimidated by their approach.
To not offer any interpreter for people who do not speak English well is wrong.
To strip search a 21 year old hindu woman is very shameful - especially after they had already said she was going home, why the strip search when she wasn't entering the country - they had just spoken with us and checked all her luggage and all she had was a small bag of birthday gifts and clothes - they could have at least given her help in understanding what they were about to do rather than just demand she take her clothes off.
we will write a complaint to both the consulates and i'll update when we hear any response.
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Yes, I had thought about suggesting the Ombudsman too.
Sure, immigration are within their right to turn anyone away. I just want to know under what circumstances did they think it was necessary to do a humiliating strip search, especially after the girl had been refused entry, and after all the supporting documents. It sounds like an abuse of authority to me.
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You may want to contact RTHK. Try backchat@rthk.org.hk
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Jaime, it does appear on the face of it that your helper's sister was not treated the same way somebody from a western country probably would have been. But I have to ask you, if you were so kind as to pay for the airfare for this girl to come and visit her sister, why did you or your helper not turn up at the airport to pick her up? How could you allow a 20-year-old illiterate girl to arrive in HKG and not be met?
You can understand why the Immigration officials may have thought it was suspicious; a 20-year-old illiterate girl turning up for a 2-week holiday in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
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jaime
15 yrs ago
My helper WAS at the airport, waiting for 6 hours whilst this was going on! When we spoke to the immigration officer we offered to come and pick her up right away and prove we were who we said we were.
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jaime
15 yrs ago
my helper also spoke to them when she was finally allowed to phone her, but they were not interested that she was there waiting.
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jaime
15 yrs ago
ps - Shoe Girl, She is not illiterate - she just isn't 100% fluent in english like a western person - she actually speaks 3 other languages and can write in english but gets stuck with words, especially under pressure.
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Jamie, my apologies; I'd misread the thread.
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It's a good idea to contact backchat@rthk.org.hk
Anyone on this forum wish to appear on Backchat to discuss this topic, please send them an email. They will organise to have someone from the Immigration Department on, while the callers can air their views on the topic. Of course, the reply from Immigration will be "we can't comment on individual cases"... but at least it brings this topic out into public discussion.
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I really don't think that appearing on Backchat will make any difference. I guess in hindsight, Jaime, you should have written to the Immigration Department in advance to let them know that your helper's sister would be visiting.
With respect to the 14-day entry because she is an Indian nationnal, the point to bear in mind is this: you do not automatically get a 14-day visa just by virtue of being a National from a certain country; it is still discretionary on the Immigration officials on whether they grant it or not. All this means is that it is not compulsory to get a visa before you arrive in HK, nationals from certain countries may apply once they arrive, but it doesn't mean it will be granted. It's similar to perhaps Falun Gong followers who arrive in HKG and expect to be allowed in, even though they may be travelling on US passports which normally means they would get a visa.
I suspect it wasn't the Immigration officials who strip-searched her either; it was probably staff from Customs & Excise who may have suspected she was a drug "mule".
In any event, it is very unfortunate that this girl had to endure what she did. But I don't think you will get anywhere, unfortunately, because legally what Immigration did was within their discretion.
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This is HK, a world city. In their dreams. Do you know that the HK government, police, immigration are protected from the anti discrimination law? They exempted themselves so whatever you want to do against them concerning discrimination is a lost case.
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To those of you who don't know: When you come to HK as a tourist and you are an Asian and you happen to go to an immigration officer who is not racist ( believe me a few of them are not racist ) then you are ok. Otherwise they will keep you in that small office (where there is no one white westerner tourist) for a minimum of 2 hours after asking you stupid questions while they are reading the letter you handed to them stating why, where, when and with who you will be staying in HK. After questioning you, you have to stay there until they got tired of staring at you and giggling and talking in chinese while looking at you. I know because I experienced this and am telling you they are the most unprofessional immigration officers I have ever encountered. No one has ever treated me like this in other countries.
Are the Chinese being treated like this when they visit other Asian countries?
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Oski
15 yrs ago
cyberience is wrong. In most countries, customs officers at the border crossings are very powerful. (not immigration officers, but in many countries, it is usually the customs officer, not the immigration officer, you meet across those counters. HK is different, the guys in white shirts are immigration, the light green uniformed guys are customs.) If they suspect a passenger of carrying contraband, they can order a strip search, with or without consent.
In my experience, customs officers in many countries are rude and unprofessional. Some even openly asked for bribes. I would rate HK immigration well above average. Although, I would add that they really ought to cut down the Cantonese chit chat when dealing with more difficult cases inside those offices. Outside at the counters, they are quite good.
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yes , the HK immigration officer is a dumb a** , they will ask you stupid questions , then checked and screened your bag more than 5 times , doesnt make sence , waste manpower and time , checked and screened by different department , put you into detention room and send you back on the next flight.
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