Posted by
Aero20
16 yrs ago
Hi all,
I will be entering my final year of university this fall at a public school in the U.S. I lived in HK from Jan-May of this year and I am quite keen on returning for work after I graduate. The problem is that I don't have any Chinese language skills, and I would need a visa to work, making it an uphill battle.
My degree will be in business economics, and while many top investment banks, consulting firms, and F500 companies recruit here, they don't recruit for overseas offices. Therefore, they only way I could get a job in HK is probably through networking. It seems like a hard road to go through, but a buddy of mine landed a job through someone his family knew, so I have some hope. I could probably fly out to HK and spend some time networking and applying there after graduation if need be. I'm open to most types of reasonable jobs, although something with decent upward mobility would be great.
Another path I could take is applying to a masters program as someplace like The London School of Economics, where banks and other finance firms do recruit for their HK offices. However, I would have to take the GMAT next summer, and then wait a year to actually go, if accepted. It'd also cost a lot. Alternatively, I could apply for HK universities (HKU or HKUST) if that woud provide me a better shot.
A seemingly easier way to get a job seems to be teaching English. I think I would actually like this type of work more than business, although I would miss the pay. The problem with this is that my degree isn't in teaching or English, which seems to be required for the NET scheme and many of the good jobs, and I don't really have much teaching experience. Would it be enough for me to complete my BS in business and do a CERTA or Trinity course to get a decent teaching gig? Also, I don't necessary want to make a career out of teaching, as I would like a high paying job some day. Not completely opposed to it, and I figure I can do law school after teaching, if I want.
Finally, the longest way I see to HK, but perhaps the most sustainable in the long run, is to do a business job or law school here, work my way up in a firm, and then try to transfer to the HK office. The downside is that I probably wouldn't get to HK for a long, long time. Or...probably the most farfetched scenario, but one I really enjoy, is moving to HK and starting a business. I have a lot of ideas, but this would require a lot of capital.
Lastly, I could give up on my HK dream and be resigned to working the U.S. while taking vacations from time to time in HK.
Sorry for the long post, but what would you do if you were in my situation? Any other ideas, suggestions, or tips that I should think about?
Thanks so much!
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I like your last plan, with the working your way up. Take the long view. Work very hard without complaint. Network. Opportunities always pop up but you have to be prepared to grab them by being a candidate, that is a person the company would want to send out.
Try to eventually work for companies and industries that have operations in HK. Many companies send people to HK (or overseas in general), but they rarely send recent graduates.
Having said that, make sure your employers don't get the impression you will just drop ship once you get that HK job. Even if you will. ;)
Yes, it can be a long process. The important thing is to be prepared for opportunities once they come up.
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The best advice I can give you is to live a balanced life where you are, get a good job, continue your studies and personal development, enjoy your relationships, keep fit, have some outside interests and do not fantasise about living in Hong Kong.
If, sometime down the track, you feel that your life would be much happier if you lived in Hong Kong, you would need to look very objectively at yourself as a potential recruit for a Hong Kong employer. Then, if you genuinely believe that there would be opportunities for you in Hong Kong, the best way to find something that suits is to be there. Okay, you would have to enter on a tourist visa - but, if you are an attractive candidate, a prospective employer would be prepared to help you get a proper visa.
Do not let your life be ruined by a dream that says you can only be happy in Hong Kong. You can be happy just about anywhere.
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CF
16 yrs ago
Please don't go into teaching unless you are passionate about education. You make it sound like you are not really interested in it, so for the sake of any students that may end up in your class - please don't! The last thing our profession needs is another person who is just doing it because they couldn't get anything else.
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hey, what is it about hk that attracts you so much. there are plenty of cities that are actually similar to hk. you might want to keep your options open and not get too focused on one place. however its good that you have many business ideas. im also interested in starting a business in hk. go for starting up
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MJ1
16 yrs ago
You loved the special attention you got from the local girls (attention you wouldn't normally get back in the US), so you're keen for more right?
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Agree with woods99. The worse thing that you can do is let your life be ruined with a romantic but worthless obsession. If you really want to move to HK, then go ahead and make all the sacrifices to get here. If you don't, don't think of this as the forgone dream that would have made you happy.
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I'd also be interested in hearing any other ideas you might have or programs/schemes you may know about that would help advance my goal. I'll admit it's tough getting over dreams and fantasies like this. I realize it may be a little silly, but if it came true, how great would that be? And it may be difficult to achieve, but I saw so many people with backgrounds similar to me (and some even less qualified) while in HK that it just adds fire to the flame in terms of keeping the dream alive.
@CF:
I don't know if I'm 'passionate' about teaching, but I think it could be an interesting career choice. I certainly think it would be more engaging and enriching than the finance internships I've done. My mother is a teacher and I've volunteered at her school as well as tutored various individuals, and enjoyed the work. I really enjoy kids and am quite good at the mechanics of English. It's rare to be passionate about a certain career, unless it's being an artist, or certain NPO work.
@janae13: I have lived or spent a couple months in a handful of cities across North America, Europe, and the Middle East, and I have briefly visited even more, and HK is the one I enjoyed the most and felt like I fit in with the way of life the most. I'd say the attraction to HK comes from two parts: the city and the people. The city (minus the pollution) is absolutely perfect in my mind with a huge urban metropolis flanked by natural beauty (beach is almost a must in where I live), great transportation and infrastructure, and serves as a great point to explore the wider East and Southeast Asian region.
In terms of the people, while it may seem paradoxical, I felt like I fit in better there than in America. I am short and quiet, but still like to go out and socialize, and I work hard, just like many of the HKers I met. Also, while this may seem superficial, I loved not encountering a lot of the ghettoness, white-trash, obesity, political correctness, evangelism, suburbanism, etc I have to live with in America. Sure, HK society has its problems, but I either didn't notice it or it didn't bother me.
And it's not like it's just a matter of experiencing something different from America and falling in love with it. I used to love my hometown (pretty big American city but nothing like NY, LA, Chi, etc), and when I lived in London for a couple of months, I had a great time but still loved America and my hometown when I came back. Since going to HK and coming back, I've found myself dissatisfied with America and my hometown. It's hard to describe how I feel, so I probably didn't capture the whole picture, but hopefully you get the idea.
@MJ1:
That was certainly a great part of my experience, and I'd definitely be keen for more.
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Okay, don't just chat about it here, do some real research. If you look hard enough, there are probably still some companies in Hong Kong that are prepared to hire entry level people like yourself. Learn all you can about those companies, their histories, their current market situations, their strengths and weaknesses, then visit Hong Kong and rock up to their Personnel Departments and try to talk your way into an interview. This is an old-fashioned approach, but it is surprising how many companies are willing to talk to young people who can demonstrate some get-up-and-go, and some initiative, and a genuine interest in making a career in their organisation.
However, if you get a foot into the door, do not talk about how much you love Hong Kong, etc etc - just be dispassionate and pragmatic about working for that particular company.
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Yeah, great advice woods99. That's really all it comes down to. There are definitely opportunities, as evidenced by the friend I mentioned in the original post. The challenge is uncovering those companies. You don't really find them too often on the tpyical employement boards. Networking and random luck seem to be the way to find them.
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Forget about random luck, you make your own luck. Networking helps, but more in the sense of finding out which companies might be worth approaching. I am out of date now, but there have always been the big "hongs" who were willing to recruit junior graduate staff out of the UK.
Ask around. Ask the recruiting firms in Hong Kong, make a nuisance of yourself, in a nice, but persistent, way. The squeaky wheel usually gets the oil, in this case, an interview.
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That is quite true, hk without the pollution and the overcrowding is indeed a near perfect place to be. it has everything in a big city and yet surrounded by fantastic natural treasures. but the lifestyle here is kindof hectic and crazy though. also, starting a business here might not be too attractive for a startup.
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I don't really mind the crowds. Makes the city very vibrant.
On the plus side, I would add:
- The possibility of hiring a helper for not a huge amount of money.
- The excellent and relatively cheap private schools.
- The scenery. HK sure is pretty with all the hills and tall buildings. I don't know any other major city with hikes quite like this one.
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agreed.. except for the crowd part. overcrowding is not good
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I actually didn't mind the crowds at all. And I didn't have to deal with the high property cost when I lived there, nor the hectic work ethos (although my friend who works there seems to have a pretty lax work schedule).....so it's true that my experience living in HK may not have colored a 100% accurate picture of what it's like to live there as a working individual.
But, without things like kids to worry about or any big committments, I think I got a solid enough idea to know I'd like living there. HK is definitely as close to a "perfect" city as I've ever experienced, and I've lived on three contients and visited all types of cities across 20 or so countries in Europe, NA, Middle East, and Asia.
In other news, I managed to land an interview for an internship in HK. It'd be a great way to become more acquainted with life as a working man in HK, but I'd have to delay my final year of university to take it.
@janae13:
I would have thought the openess of the HK economy and low taxes would make it a good place to open a business, not to mention the proximity to mainland China could be an andvantage for certain types of companies. I guess the high property costs could be a detriment though. I have a great location in mind for a franchise restaurant, but I don't think I have the familiarity with the HK business environment nor the requisite startup capital to go through with it yet.
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I didn't say private schools were cheap, I said they were relatively cheap. ;) Private schools in HK cost far less than in the UK, Australia and US. About half in many cases. Then again in those countries English speakers have public alternatives.
I'll agree with you on the other stuff. The institutional racism (like that term) is so true.
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@Aero20: that's great that you got urself an interview. which company is that? true that the openness and the low taxes will be good for businesses, on top of the fantastic urban infrastructure and stability. but yea, other than property prices, the business administrative costs are high too?
@madtown: i have not noticed any racial biasness against other se asians as of yet. but i do think they do not like mainland ppl much..
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mayo
16 yrs ago
My children attended a french school with an IB curriculum in both Los Angeles and Sydney and in both cases the tuition was less than what we pay Hong Kong. There may be private schools that are more expensive in both cities but I would say the quality of education my children received was on par with what they do here and it was cheaper. I believe school fees at international schools in hk have been driven up in direct proportion the number students getting company funded education. The quality of the education is good but still doesn't be justify the exorbitant fees.
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Well....don't think that interview went so well, haha.
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i see, so firms here tend to have a preference over foreigners and locals rather than SE asians?
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It really depends on what they are looking for I think. In any case I have noticed many cases where both local and expat have treated helpers, or any persons that "look like helpers" like dirt.
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"Best place to make cash in the world, IMO. You don't even have to be smart or motivated." - I'm sorry but I can't help wanting to say a few words.
That's precisely the way most locals feel about expats (predominanatly Caucasians). They don't freaking deserve the money. That they're only making an absurd amount of money because they are freakin' "white".
Please, Aero20 or any others out there dreaming of moving to Hong Kong, do us a favor. Please be prepared to actually work and work hard.
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Amen, beetle gal.
If corporations could hire locals to do all the jobs, and thus avoid all the pesky international assignment costs, they would do so in a heartbeat.
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Of course I'm willing to work hard.
Where does one find these corporations that require foreignors?
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the pay is high but the living costs are high too. the accomodation rental and living expenses really do alot of damage.
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Yes, living costs are relatively high but it is very area dependent. If you want a large Western style place in a "nice" area and a flashy building you'll be paying a lot. However you can live quite reasonably a bit further out. Manhattan or Chelsea aren't that cheap either if you think about it.
I will agree that living costs are higher but on the other hand taxes are low. Income tax is maxed out at 16%, there is no sales tax and no capital gains tax.
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@linchee
I'll be taking Mandarin classes in my final year of university, but it's more because of interest than for practicality because there's no way I'll attain a high enough proficienty in one year to be relevant for business. I almost wonder if it'd be more prudent to learn another European language such as French or Spanish, as there's got to be less native Mandarin speakers that are also fluent in English and another Euro language. But continuing to study PTH could be a long term goal for me over the course of 4-5 years.
@madtown
I have no problem grinding it out for a while, but the problem is getting that initial visa so I could start the 7 yr count down. I guess I could do something like go to school for 7 yrs, but that would be expensive & 7 yrs is a long time to go without income haha. Or teach English I guess...
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try picking up some cantonese as well, its definitely useful. would you be having an internship in hk then?
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I'm open for taking an internship. Especially since I'm not entirely set on what kind of career I want to pursue yet.
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"I could give up on my HK dream and be resigned to working the U.S. while taking vacations from time to time in HK."
WRONG!!!!!!! Don't do that, more so because you're young and can easily recover if you fall flat on your face. Follow that dream. And check out Singapore as an alternative destination. A lot of the “bad things” people have pointed out about HK don’t exist in Singapore.
When I was 12, my grandpa (who had definitely been there and done that) told me this:
There are times in your life when there is something you want to do but you’re scared you to death to do it. Ask yourself 1 question. What’s the worst thing that can happen if I do this? If you can live with the worst thing that can happen, don’t think, JUST DO IT.
That’s why I’ve been in Asia (Philippines, Thailand, Singapore, Bali and now HK) for 12 years and never going back to the western world.
BK
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&&&
16 yrs ago
Aero 20,
It SEEEMS you had done a number of things wrong.
For starters, you should have explored your career interests a lot earlier. Most US students from elite colleges work in INTERNSHIPS from Year 1. By Year 3, they are HUNTED and received job offers. Of course that path should and can be strategically structured esp for Investment Bank jobs. Eg students would work in their US town's local Merrill Lynch Year 1, another bank, Year 2. Then, Year 3, attend the M Lynch interviews for Year 3 students. This same student is now working as a summer intern with a HK 4 figure salary, with hotel accomodation thrown in. And he is amongst groups from a range of top investment banks, not lone. Of course this is not easy. He has a 3.89 GPA and a list of equally impressive leadership posts on campus. etc etc. But all that has to be strategically planned ahead.
Another thing wrong here is you talk about going into Law. Imagine how many more years it would be before you start making a living ? And is Law REALLY your interest ? Find out by getting a job during the year doing donkey work at a law office in USA.
Well paid internships in HK are solicited around Jan thru Spring.
To right the wrong :
1/ It's not too late to find an internship, but you have to network and think out of the box to do so. But not that difficult, with your fluency in English.
2/ Get serious with studying Mandarin, as you have suggested.
3/ Instead of getting off on a tangent to do Law, take a year or so off in BJ total immersion in Mandarin with the BJ Language Institute. This would not only beneifit you with the language, but look well with potential employers for S'pore, HK as well.
4/ Spore is hiring for financial sector also. Work permit is easy. For a Caucasian to have the BJ lanaguage profiiciency proof, your resume will stand out.
5/ Don't teach unless you really want to deal with teenagers and all their problems. If so, go for that Educatioan qualification exams etc. But comparing doing this with getting proficiency in Mandarin with similar time frame, go figure.
6/ As long as you remain a student, getting into corporate world as an paid intern is far better than any networking you do as an unemployerd grad. Start doing it when college commences in Sept. Get a partime job (not an internship, in that case), and get yourself into the door of a corportion. That's your leverage over others who are clueless and then apply as an entry-level job hunter.
7/ Given your American status, I would say, after the degree, pursue America, and then be poised for transfer to Asia : S China, HK, Spore, Vietnam. Don't JUST focus on HK. Have all your options open.
8/ With your degree, unless you have capital, hard to do business in HK. Costly startups esp when the spending public is 90% Chinese. Gather the capital and the emersion of the bss ethos as a corporate guy first.
9/ LSE - not a bad idea (only because corp sends recruitment staff to them. But they do that to at least 30 of the Top colleges in USA, mostly E Coast). There is no gurrantee you will get any offer, if you don't go climb the internship ladder fast.
Your analysis of "Why HK" seems to be what HK's lifestyle can do for you. Not enough of what you can offer HK. And it would show in your interviews.
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That last point &&& makes about why you would to move to HK is very true. Companies won't move you because you desire it. You have to make it desirable for them to do so.
"And check out Singapore as an alternative destination. A lot of the “bad things” people have pointed out about HK don’t exist in Singapore. "
This is true. However Singapore has its negative points too.
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&&&,
Great write-up and advice, and surely I didn't do things 100% so far in college (hard to do, when you don't KNOW the right way and not sure what you want to do for a career -- going into undergrad I was pretty sure I wanted to do law).
However, I have done a lot of the things you suggested. I did an internship in private equity after my 1st year, and am currently in an internship in public finance for my state's government. Do you think it'd still be importantt to do a part-time job during my final year knowing that?
I was naive about the importance of a junior year internship in banking, and all the banks recruited at my school while I was studying in HK. So I basically took the closest thing I could get to banking. Also, I don't think I'd consider law a tangent. I have a similar level of interest, if not more, in law than finance. I actually think I'd enjoy teaching more than either.
I've received good feedback from people to whom I've shown my resume (you can see it here: http://www.razume.com/documents/15855), so in theory I should be able to get a decent job after graduation. It's just the job in HK part that may prove difficult. I've visited other Asian countries including Singapore and Vietnam, and they could be interesting too, it'd just be more of an adjustment since I wouldn't know many people like I do in HK or have the background of living there previously for a while. Definitely would be open to it though. Just how easy is the work permit in Singapore? I've looked into it, and it seems fairly similar to the HK regulations.
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And just to clarify, is this what you're referring to by BJ Language Institute:
http://www.blcu.edu.cn/blcuweb/english/index-en.asp
?
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