Posted by
sprite77
15 yrs ago
hi,am foreigner and lived in hk for several years.i had a good life there and enjoyed every minute of it.last year,i met my wife there( she was a DH) and things went good for both of us.she had a bestfriend,also a pilippino DH and she became my friend too,since she was always with us during our stay in hk and she sometimes went with us on our "unintimate" dates.unknown to my knowledge,she made a loan to Public Finance or what she said JCG, for her bestfriend.
we got married early this year and i brought her here in the US.a couple of months ago,and up to this date, she's receiving emails from her family way back home that the bank is sending her letters for the unpaid loans.this shocked her and what we did is to contact her bestfriend but to no avail.she found out from her other friend,that shes no longer in Hk,and she made one payment for that loan and when she learnt that my wife is leaving hk for good,she stop paying.
my wife's family is worried because they(bank) kept on sending letters and lately with a word of " final notice before site visit".my problem was, we bought a piece of land in Mandaue City and house and Lot in Bantayan Island which is in her name because it is the law of the philippines that my name cant be the registered owner since we bought the land and we are not married yet that time. my concerns are;
1. can the bank take our property because of the unpaid loan she made for her bestfriend?
2. this bank jcg,is this a legal finance institution?
3.is it legal for them to take the property in the philippines to think that the loan was made in hk?
4.what is the worst scenario in this case?
i would appreciate all your advice because it really worries me.my wife is pregnant and she's stress because of this mess!!! i dont want her to suffer like this and it scares me that her condition will affect the baby in her womb and her doctor told me that there is a possibilty that she will suffer depression and it will surely affect the baby and our marriage....thank you all guys and i hope to hear from you. your opinions and advice are very much welcome....
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frankly if it's not too much money, i would just pay it off.
the worst case scenario is that one of your family members might lose an arm or two.
apparently your wife committed to the loan (forget the trust and relationship to the other helper), so she is on the hook.
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well,the bank is demanding 43k for payment.and i really dont want to pay that amount specially that we didnt use the money and besides that,we are in financial crisis too.the bank collector in the philippines is sending letters to my mother-in-law.another thing,i am thinking about hiring a lawyer but i dont know what case i have.
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you have no case, that is the point.
your wife signed a loan deal, i.e. 99% for sure she put her name under the agreement as a guarantor of her friend. her friend skipped, your wife is on the hook. it's as simple as that.
the only alternative could be to start negotiating with the bank. not sure what the original amount was, but maybe you can cut a deal.
you can also call their bluff and wait and see what happens. i dont think they can take recourse to your property all that easy, but they have other means.
(on a separate note, i would start to have some thoughts about yuor wife, given how easily she committed to that loan and didnt inform you pre-marriage...)
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cookie09; thanks.
i've heard and read some of the post here that has the same case with mine,having trouble with loansharks and says these people are harrassing them and actually did nasty thing,like threats and leaving dead chickens on their door.but if they tell them that they will involve or call the police,they stop for a while and get back with you later.im not worried of such thing because me and my wife is here in the US and we might go back there in 2015,perhaps that issues is not as hot as now,and besides that,my wife will be using my last name. do u know or anyone here have any idea or heard case like my wifes,and what they do their collector in the philippines do?
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about my wife,i know she was wrong about it and i cant do anything about it now.it happened and blaming her wont do any good to both of us and her condition.
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Regarding Public Finance or JCG, they are not loan sharks but a regulated financial institution which provides loans and hire-purchase agreements to the riskier end of the market (people on low incomes, domestic helpers and gamblers) - you can see their web site on http://www.publicfinance.com.hk . They are regulated by the Hong Kong Monetary Authority and under HK law (which is enforced), they cannot go around breaking people's arms though they are extremely good at hassling. Also, not sure if they would bother paying all the legal fees necessary to claim a piece of land in the Philippines - which is probably difficult to sell. Having said that, they know their market so perhaps they hire people in the Philippines as agents on their behalf - which may be more of a problem. If your wife guaranteed, then she should pay. Going forward, I think you need to be extremely careful about buying in the Philippines. Provide a little bit of money for her family if you wish, but don't bet the ranch on the Phiilippines as you will always lose as a foreigner. I am British and my fellow countryment have a reputation for drunken and loutish behaviour. In Hong Kong, (rightly or wrongly) people from the Philippines have a reputation for telling half-truths and terrible financial management. Please be very careful.
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grytch. No need to clarify. Not all British people are drunken and loutish though a significant number are - which is where the reputation comes from.
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Tune
15 yrs ago
If I were you, I would seek legal advice without delay. You may be pleasantly surprised about your responsibilities. Good luck.
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Loyd and Grytch; thanks ;
Loyd,man,thanks for the info.so it is a legal financial institution? is it possible that they will take the property in the phils to think that the agreement was done in hk? im not sure about ths,but i think there are laws in hk that cannot be applied in phils,but i dont know which law,not sure if bank loans are one.
Grycth; my case is, its my wife who sign the documentation as borrower because her bestfriend cannot borrow money because her employer hold her passport,thats according to her bf.anyways, so its my wife who is the borrower. did you ever encounter or know people who had borrowed money from the bank and they skipped or didnt pay , did the bank took their property in the phils? and what did the collector do in the phils? will they harm the family of my wife? i mean, physically? have u heard anything like that?
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tune: thanks...im planning to do that,but i am still considering our financial status.paying a lawyer here wont do any good since the "mess" happened in hk, and the hassling is in the phils. so im trying to get as much info as possible to know what are the steps im going to do. did anybody really get away with this kind of case in hk?
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Oneperson,
"What Planet are you from"
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Fixer
15 yrs ago
"the bank is demanding 43k for payment.and i really dont want to pay that amount specially that we didnt use the money"
If that's what is owed, then your wife is duty bound to repay that amount -as acting guarantor, in lieu of the borrower absconding from her obligations. What she can't pay falls down to her spouse to pay.
Perhaps a good time to ask if there are any more similar circumstances that you know about.
Whilst I doubt they would send in the heavies for what is a pretty small amount owed, the tactics employed by the "collection agencies" can be somewhat intimidating. Are there legal or financial advisors you ask in the P'pines as to what legal recourse the lender has over a loan that was executed in HK?
Oneperson, interesting post if somewhat vague as to the objectives. 3-5k fas a dinner date?
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Tune
15 yrs ago
As I said, seek legal advice... . Frankly speaking, many of the posters on this forum lack sagacity and give wayward, unsubstanciated advice. Be careful.
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Tune
15 yrs ago
I have to take that one on the chin. I mistakenly thought she was the guarantor and not the principal borrower.
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ASIDE from ONEPERSON, guys,thank u all for your opinions and advices...i appreciate all your effort to respond to my query.
ONEPERSON, i honestly didnt understand what youre trying to tell me but one thing im sure though,this phrase" money is very important in HK. If you found me a very rich man then I will marry him right away" , show youre a GOLD DIGGER!!!
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Attention ONEPERSON; " I go for a date then a man paid for HKD 3000-5000 for dinner with me. I am using the view in business on this case."
No one in his right mind will spend 3k-5k for a dinner date. Whot are you? HAlle Berry or angelina Jollie? just curious....
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some more input: while your case might be too small money for the lender to pursue your property, you should consider the implications of what can happen in the Phils. it's a pretty lawless country out there and you have pretty much no rights as a foreigner. so your property - which is not really yours - really - could well be on the line somehow.
secondly, the Phils debt collectors have their ways of making your life and the life of your relatives a hassle. trust me i have seen some situations, and it's not pleasant. in the best case, it's just threats and your relatives will forever blame you and your wife for making their life like hell.
in the second-best case, all of the above but your relatives might arm-twist your wife in selling HER property to pay off the loan. and frankly, SHE MIGHT DO IT without telling you. the reason she is stressed is not about the money, it's about the impact this situation has on her family back in Phils. Remember you didn't marry her, you married her family (and i hope someone told you that before you tied the knot).
in the worst situation, one of her relatives might have an 'accident'...
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ONEPERSON; oh please....youre out of tune...way,way out....
cookie 09: yes, i was told that if i married a filipina- i married her family too..but so far, her family never demands any money from me. not a single cents, and my in-laws made it clear to me that they had their own living and they have been living their lives before i met my wife without anybody's help---and so they can still live without my money...and to add with that; my mother-in-law, made it clear to me too-that its not going to happen(them asking money from me and my wife), because they have their own source of income.they are ashame that some filipinos family are demanding money from foreigner-in-laws; and she said and assure me-theyre not going to be one of them...
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cookie09; please let me understand what you mean by " accident"? you mean,these collectors are going to hurt her relatives physically? or what? thanks man...i appreciate it...
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Sprite77,
Firstly, I'm sorry you are in your predicament right now. As a former employee of a finance company here in HK, I have heard your wife's story gazillion times before. I know for a fact that when she took out the loan, she was asked who will be the actual user of the money and I am 100% certain that she answered it was her personal use ( because if she said it was her friend, the bank will not approve it). This practice of borrowing on behalf of a friend is quite common in the DH loan business and it is common knowledge to all DHs that a lot of them get terminated because the "actual user" was nowhere to be found. I know that your wife understood this risk when she signed on the dotted line.
Your wife can do two things: (A) ignore the payment demands and totally run away from her responsibilities. Consequences that may arise from this option includes: (1) her references will get terminated because of the constant calls from the hk debt collectors, (2) depending on how aggressive the collection agency in the Philippines, your wife's family will continue to receive demand letters, telephone calls/sms and even the actual personal visits. Physical violence and/or confiscation of property without due process is against the law. Contrary to what some idiots out there said, my country is as civilized as yours and there are rules & laws to be followed. I am assuming that the land/property you were talking about was not made as a collateral of that loan, because DH personal loans don't need one.
(B) Learn from this mistake and pay-up! I know it is very,very hard to pay for a loan she did not use. But it was her fault. She defrauded the bank. As I always tell the borrower when I process the loans, the bank doesn't care if after you signed the documents you throw all your money into the sea, the fact that you promised to repay it, then the transaction was done in good faith and the bank will expect you honor it. What can she do if she decides to choose this option? (1) she can pay in lump sum and ask for a discount ( without the additional charges from the collection agencies w/c sometimes are more than the actual loan amount) by calling Public Finance's manager direct. (2) she can pay in monthly installments by remitting it to Public Finance's bank account in HK. Most of the time, the bank manager will be amenable to this kind of arrangement as long as she will be faithful to the terms being agreed upon.
You ask your wife what her plans are regarding her problem. Based on experience, she will resort to option (A). If you ask me, convince her to do option B(2) instead for you, your wife and your unborn's child's sake. If money is a problem right now, ask the bank for a few months grace period. As long as your wife (and you) shows an intention to pay, I am pretty sure the bank will find a way to accommodate whatever request you might ask them.
I hope I was able to help you a little bit with your problem.
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oneperson, why don't you shut up? your talking is so incoherent, non-fact based and unhelpful...
Josacs, i do not know the actual company under discussion (JCG), but i do personally know situations where the debt collection agencies in the Philippines were rather over-aggressive, and yes, it did include physical violence. for disclosures sake, it was not in makati or manila but rather on the countryside up north.
I would hope that the company under discussion is as your describe and i certainly support the proposed approach, i.e. to negotiate and pay it off.
at a minimum you sprite will learn what type of finance company this really is...
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JOSAC and COOKIE09; thank you so much...
josac; i am very happy to hear from you and for your time responding to this mess.you just dont know how glad i am that this is now very clear to me.
cookie09; man, thank you for your wonderful advices and taking time in responding my questions.
these information and advices you have given is highly appreciated and i will surely consider your words before i made a decisions.i am glad i join this site and i met wonderful people.
oneperson; i dont need to thank you for anything because youre talking b***sh*t and basing on what youre saying, you KNOW NOTHING, period. simple as that. you are a racist, dumb and annoying.
to all other guys out there( except oneperson), thank you all. if you still have more info and advice, it is still very much welcome and thank you in advance...
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Fixer
15 yrs ago
op's absolutely off the OP's topic in mind, but totally amusing to read (ROFLMAO) , when you take time to decipher the pearls of wisdom that lay within.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
I'm deleting any insulting comments.... please let's follow the rules of the forums...
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Tune; very well said!!!
oneperson; i think you need to go back to school to study english. you should be glad im not your employer because i will fire you for your poor english.you said
" I am in very wealthy network which very wealthy peoople in US leads the global loans." i am curious how you interact with american since you dont know how to speak english...honestly, in your responds to my post, i didnt understand it, (1) youre out of tune, (2) and wrong grammar, youre mixing your words!!!
i never thought that posting here my problems will bring a smile to my face,and thats because of the wonderful people i've met and their advices; and; reading ONEPERSON words brings me to LAUGH OUT LOUD!!! i never thought he would make fun out of himself, hahahaha!!!!
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Ed
15 yrs ago
This thread is CLOSED to further comment as it is going down a path to pointlessness...
If you wish to continue the discussion please do so using the member to member messaging system - thanks - and have a greeeeat day!
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hkgreatlady, i am amazed you can read this out of op's statements...
in any case, your answer is not addressing the OPs question really, so not very helpful either
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look i dont know what OP has written because frankly i did not understand it.
of course his wife should be paying off the loan as she committed to it - which has been my opinion all along if you bother to read my statements.
the point however is that sprite was asking something different:
"1. do the bank can take our property because of the unpaid loan she made for her bestfriend?
2. do this bank jcg, is a legal finance institution?
3.is it legal for them to take the property in the philippines to think that the loan was made in hk?
4.what is the worst scenario in this case?"
these were his questions. if you like to answer them, be my guest.
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greatlady; i have been following this post from day one.i think and i am sure that you are a friend/officemate of oneperson;
a.if you read her responds,it doesnt make sense.
b.NO ONE here understand what shes trying to say.
c.she's OUT of the TOPIC.
d.almost everyone here,complain her english b/c nobody understand what shes trying to point ou.
I am amazed that you find her "professional". If you say "professional", you should act professionally in every way and aspect. But to generalized the filipinos being dancers and pros in wanchai is not professionalism.I had one officemate, just like me,chinese,and he raped his filipino maid,do u think it is right that i would generalized too that all chinese are rapists?
and to sprite, let your wife call the bank and make payments agreement to stop the hassling.
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okay guys, thank you all for all your advices. last night, i made plans in going back to hongkong and i called my brother who works in Cathay Pacific and he made arrangements for me and my wife.We are flying back there on Thursday US time.
hkgreatlady; i dont find oneperson a professional.shes a racist,and annoying.she should not say what she had said if she consider herself a professional.
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hkgreatlady;
*** if she is now located in US then it should have the financial services company to follow this case in USA b/c when they decide to push this loan offer into the market then they assumed these cases happened.
Example : JCG might issue the law sued case thr' the Finance Services Company in Delware then it is not fun. Winton (B.V.I.) knows it very well when it is listed.
this bank is not stupid enough to pursue the case to the US because it is not worth it. HK$ 43 is not worth paying a law firm and bankers that will cost you hundred ot thousands US dollars!!! do u have any idea of how much is the cost of lawyers in the US? theyre charging you per hour, and guess what??? in US law, you CANNOT force or put the person in jail because of UNPAID LOAN. If it comes to worst,after a long battle and thousands of US dollars paid for a lawyer and bankers to pursue the case in the US, the court will order her to pay, BUT she will pay it WHENEVER she can!!! it might take 10 years from now before she start paying.
is it worth it??? i think the JCG is not stupid as what you think.
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hkgreatlady; what makes u think i do not know about US law? my 2 kids are in the US and studying, and my son is graduating of LAW next year!!!
"You need to pay air-tickets, not in discount price even your brother works in CP then why didn't you ring them up and arrange the wire transfer ?"
i think you need to think before you talk, you have to stay your limits and dont cross the boundaries. who are you to make a decision for him? the man is asking for an advice, not a decision from you!
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Fixer
15 yrs ago
Going out on a limb here............ may even get deleted.
Is it just me or does anyone here reckon oneperson, hkgreatlady and ladywong are all the same person? Just the names sound so much in common -'person'; 'lady'; 'lady'?
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FIxer;
okay, i cant do this anymore. oneperson,hkgreatlady and I are officemates,and we are friends( sorry my friends :( i cant do this anymore).they told me we will argue with this like other people but our point is to make a point for oneperson.
sorry guys i lied...im done...friends(oneperson,hkgreatlady) im so sorry. see you tomorrow. please understand i cant lie anymore.
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lol this is hilarious. why don't you share which law firm you work for?
at least then we know who to avoid...
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Fixer
15 yrs ago
If you guys wanted a place try out your knowledge at law and English, you could have chosen a different post elsewhere. It's obviously clear from the OP's post that he's in a tight spot and anxious to find a sloution to his predicament.
It was insensitive of you girls to mock the poor guy for your own selfish gratification.
Sprite77, good luck and hope things turn out OK for you.
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Oneperson, hkgreatlady and ladywong all work in a law firm in Princes building!?
ROFL
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Fixer
15 yrs ago
hkgrtldy,
I'm going through some matrimonial litigation at the mo, can you tell me which practice you work for as I need a second opinion?
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i am sorry to all of you. it was not my idea. now,im here in cafe d' coral eating alone b/c hkgreatlady is not talking to me in the office,she's ignoring me.shes mad b/c i told the truth. we supposed to eat together today here in cafe d' coral like we used to do everyday,but she's mad at me.what will i do? i am not good in lying!!!
now,she make me angry too, i will told the whole truth.
hkgreatlady and oneperson is the same woman.she used two different names.
again,im sorry all.
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ok,this is final. i will not come back here. hkgreatlady, stop your bad doing.and dont angry to me b/c i didnt lie anymore...i hope u wull talk to me when i go inside the office.
goodbye all.
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well, i tot i taw a putty cat' nice reading. funny ending.:-).
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Hi. Sprite.
First of all I think it’s great that you married your ex-domestic-helper wife. It is hard to find love in life and people are lucky when they have found it.
I don’t think your wife tried to hide the loan application from you and I think she made it without thinking it was all going to go bad. It would have been good if she mentioned it to you though because then you can help her do some thinking, look out for her, lend her one more pair of brains for the thinking.
She probably thought it was all going to be fine and that’s why she thought she didn’t need to tell you. Then things didn’t turn out fine.
I don’t know what the circumstances are surrounding the best friend, there can be all kinds of logistical issues there, and probably some degree of unfortunate misunderstanding.
Communicating is great for clearing up issues.
But you should take the bank very seriously, because of credit rating in countries like the United States and Hong Kong. I think her credit rating is already quite bad, in the future she needs to improve this to make life easier for her, to buy cars, buy houses, even get new mobile phones.
In a way, if the Philippines gave her a greater variety of job opportunities, and she could have taken any career, that would have given her the chance to broaden her knowledge, for example if she had a finance job she would have been able to see how often problems arise when person A applies for a loan because of person B. Never mind.
About (1) I think it is not as straightforward as that, but you are right to think on those tracks. When someone has not kept up with loan repayments, a person’s assets are threatened. The procedures are quite intricate and I am not a professional so I don’t know the details.
I think it is very very important for you to reassure your wife and even if she make a mistake. If she has problems in her pregnancy, it can lead to a miscarriage, it can lead to serious health problems for the baby, problems with organs, problems with bones, the list goes on and on. What I think you need to do is to go and read some more books and documentaries on the different stages of pregnancy and what sort of mental, emotional, physical state a pregnant woman really needs to be in, for the baby. Be there for your wife and tell her you’re on the case while she is pregnant and she can go and worry about the banks after she has given birth.
If your wife develops depression, please leave that until the birth, and depression is treatable so it is not the end of the world. Many people recover, tomorrow will be a brighter day.
I think there are some logistical issues with communicating with the best friend. I hope you catch up with the communication within 2-3 weeks. Then after that it’s maintaining good health, a happy family and improving her credit rating so that you guys can buy this, buy that for the home and also for the baby.
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sprite77,
i understand fully your situation here, generally speaking, your wife's case is very common problem here in Hong Kong. Normally, what's happening is, the gaurrantor is always the one who suffers for the cause. WE can say, It's not fair!but that is how it is. For most viewers who adviced you, i can tell they are educated but they are not learned. What a shame! Do not advice if you have nothing to say but rubbish. sprite77 is here to ask help not to argue or what so ever. It's just that the incident happened to an asian, a filipino, there are so many worst other nationalities borrowers who loan bigger amounts then run.Gone in a twinkling of an eye. I bet you but this is really true.
to sprite77, this may or may not work for you but here's my opinion, i know you didn't use that money but if u want peace, if you dont want this financing company to bother your in-laws, they is no way to scape but to pay the loan. I tell you, they will never stop hassling your family and in-laws for sure because that is there job. Find a way to talk with the financing company and bargain with them. I'm sure they will understand. To what i understand, u can pay by installment or lesser as long as u report to them every month and give your assurance. Imagine that your wife went to casino and blew that 43k. Just a matter of acceptance. After all, We can't have everything we want in this world! thanks
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Sprite,
if all you are worried about are the properties in the Philippines, then the best thing to do would be to create a corporation, and put the properties in the name of the corporation. This is how foreigners are able to buy land in the Philippines. Doesn't cost much to do this and the lending company would not be able to get the properties to cover your wife's loan.
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