Posted by
JayAlan
15 yrs ago
I would like to know if there is a procedure for keeping someone out of HK. In my case, I am concerned about someone I love.
I wrote to Immigration but they were not much help. There must be a procedure, maybe through the court system, to prohibit someone from reentering HK if you are concerned that they are meeting with the wrong people or will resort to illegal employment-- or worse!
Please support our advertisers:
If this someone is an adult then there is not much you can do.
It is this person's choice. I assume they are mentally fit and capable of making their own decisions so, there is not much else you can do.
Please support our advertisers:
HK law requires parental consent before the age of 21. She is 19. Either way, there must be a procedure.
Please support our advertisers:
Not sure that's correct - HK requiring parental consent for a 19yo to enter HK. At that age, if she has a passport then she can enter without anyone's consent. HK Immigration does have the power to stop anyone entering at the border control point, but it would need something fairly concrete to work on. From your other post elsewhere I understood that it was your daughter who is planning to marry a HK resident who migh have provided false information when registering the intention to marry. That is a different matter, but even then Immigration would certainly be checking the data provided. You said that he had put your daughter's age down as 21, but Immigration would be looking for a copy of the passport to verify her DOB. Having had first-hand experience of going through the marriage process in HK I think it most unlikely that any falsified basic information would get through unchallenged. Not declaring an existing marriage, though, is not likely to be picked up...until someone proves an illegal marriage has taken place after the event.
Please support our advertisers:
Yes, this is my daughter at issue. She is 19 and can legally enter HK. But, under HK law, she can not marry until 21 unless she has parental consent. She is not a HK resident, she arrived on a tourist visa. He is not a HK resident, he arrived on a tourist visa and has remained under the UNHCR (United Nations) refugee status. She may have misrepresented on the marriage application stating she doesn't have any parents, but I don't know for certain. I am not sure how he got around the bigamy issue. I have been told that he may have paid a judge in India to sign an order that he is divorced, but he is not!
Please support our advertisers:
JayAlan,
This is a situation in which you cannot win. The best (worst?) you can hope for is to save your daughter from what you see as a bad choice, but the cost will be that this will damage your relationship with her. Maybe you should concentrate on maintaining your relationship with her, and try to support her through what might turn out to be a very difficult time in her life.
If you take action that breaks your relationship with her, she will face that difficult time without your support. This is a tough situation, my advice is to try to make calm, rational, decisions, although it must be really difficult for you.
Best wishes........
Please support our advertisers:
In situation as dangerous as this, noting again that he has already been incarcerated for attempted murder and "over beating" (a crime in India for beating someone to near death), does drug, rapes children and so on, a parent's primary responsibility is to do whatever is necessary to separate his teenage daughter from this guy, who is nearly 30.
Please support our advertisers:
i have contacted the marriage registry but no response as of yet. I have a lawyer now and he will be contacting them tomorrow. I love my daughter soooooo much. How can I explain the pain and sorrow in my heart. I am a single parent, male. My job is to protect my children. I don't know how this happened. A walk on Nathan Road and a desperate predator. A man being charged with child rape. I guess he thinks that if he is with my daughter the police won't press charges against him for bigamy or other crimes. This is not the Titanic movie love story. Jack didn't rape children and hit Rose in the head!
A responder talks about a "win." What is a win? My daughter will never be the same. She has already been beaten and abused by this idiot. I went to the police and immigration literally 20 plus times last summer and have since written 50 plus letters. They bring him in and let him return to work the following day. Stockholm syndrome is when a victim, essentially mistakes abuse as an act of kindness. I've learned that child predators have the knack of making this happen.
When she was away from him last time, she opened up a bit about this lunatic. I asked how could she have stayed with a guy like this! She wanted me to know he has changed. Yeah, for the worse!
Even when he goes to jail for bigamy, immigration fraud, drugs, assault and battery, child rape or whatever else for which he is being investigated it won't change the damage done. I just want my daughter to be safely with us. She was accepted to college, she should go. But if she wants time to just be with us, that would also be great. Besides me, her siblings also miss her terribly.
Parents, never take anything for granted!
Please support our advertisers:
I can see your pain but if he's really committed such crimes should he not be behind bars? And if what you are saying is true about him, then why does your daughter want to marry such a person anyway?! At 19 I would assume she's mature enough to know right and wrong, she's an adult. No hard feelings mate but I'm getting a feeling that you just don't like him.
Please support our advertisers:
We was already in jail in India. He came to HK on a tourist visa and then applied for protection under UNHCR refugee status. Hence, he can't be extradited back to India.
I can't explain why HK Immigration hasn't picked him up for immigration fraud. If they followed him for one day, then can watch him work. We was working inside Chung King Mansion at a phone shop for a while. After the authorities arrived he fled. Since then, I do not know where he works. Immigration has been to his residence. They could easily follow him!
She knows right from wrong and has told me that she gets him sleeping with children is wrong. She is 19 and in love. She rationalizes the situation by saying "he has changed." She says if she is wrong then she will "repair" the damage created by her mistakes.
The marriage registrar says proof of marriage takes nine days. I was just told by a lawyer that he believes the court will invalidate the marriage based upon the age issue (in HK you need to be 21 or have parental consent). Of course, to the extent that he is already married in India, a bigamy charge against him should follow. A human rights NGO is helping to obtain evidence that he hasn't been divorced. I have his marriage certificate -- provided by his wife (married her at 14). And she is cooperating. So this should happen!
Thanks for trying to imagine what I am going through. I appreciate your kind words. Actually, it's unimaginabl
Please support our advertisers:
Thanks Inkpot. She's already in HK. I am currently in Eastern Europe. Yes, she sees me as the enemy. I tried to pitch therapy to her, to no avail. I am in the process of obtaining the documents and hope to have them within a week. I've been advised that, if married, the court will invalidate the marriage certificate.
How can I be calm? My daughter opted out of college to live/marry a child rapist! At this point, my responsibility is to separate them. Unfortunately, immigration hasn't been much in terms of assistance. I am hoping to have better luck with the court.
Please support our advertisers:
I think inkpot88 has made a very good suggestion.
Looking at this situation from a distance (which thank Christ I am) it's clear your ultimate goal is to remove this guy from your daughter’s life by whatever means necessary. The only legal way to do this is to appeal to his greedy nature. While it would be painful handing over hard earned money to such a parasite it may be much cheaper and more effective in the long run than engaging lawyers.
Ask a close friend to approach him with an offer. Probably best to have someone who speaks his own language to negotiate (if you can find someone). Split the payment so he only receives half after 6 months away from her.
There risk is your daughter finding out about the offer.
Please support our advertisers:
I'm going to agree with madtown. The whole payoff idea seems taken from a gangster movie.
As mentioned by others: stay calm. Talk to her in a calm and rational manner. In the end though, she is an adult and may do what she wants. The time to educate her on these matters is for better of for worse in the past. If she goes forward with the relationship, support her when it all goes to bits.
Please support our advertisers:
He's already said this guy’s seriously dangerous and we can only assume he’s telling the truth. If it is the truth no good parent would sit by and watch their child, regardless of age put themselves at so much risk.
Paying this guy off is one solution (more Jane Austen than gangster movie I’d say). I haven’t heard any other solutions that could sort his problem out quickly and efficiently.
Please support our advertisers:
I am not giving this criminal any money. He would only use it to take her or another teenage girl on vacation. He is a sick and demented predator. Waiting this out and letting nature take its course is also not an option. He got another girl pregnant 6 months ago and then left her. I need to intervene.
Please support our advertisers:
I am not giving this criminal any money. He would only use it to take her or another teenage girl on vacation. He is a sick and demented predator. Waiting this out and letting nature take its course is also not an option. He got another girl pregnant 6 months ago and then left her. I need to intervene.
Please support our advertisers:
Actually, I am hoping a solution exist beyond using gangsters and bribes. I had been hoping a lawyer would have come to my rescue but thus far this hasn't happened. A man with a criminal mind and a criminal history has opted to use his skills to brainwash my teenage daughter. I'm now told it will take 9 days just to verify the existence of the marriage. The words of his "wife" and former girlfriends have been consistent about his controlling them and beating them. Clearly, he suffers from the "Messiah complex." In his mind, he is the saviour of the girls he meets. He decides their friends and family and he expects them to obey him.
It's shocking that neither Immigration nor the police will do much. I can't understand this!
At this point, my daughter basically refuses to communicate with me or her siblings.
I am her father! But yet I can't find a solution to rescue my daughter. I am putting my efforts into a law enforcement system that isn't helping!
Please, no further reference to gangsters, bribes or the like!
Please support our advertisers:
good idea, stay well away from gangsters and bribes. the gangster option would see you in court for 'counselling and procuring an offence'. the bribe, if related to your daughter by the guy, would see your relationship with your daughter damaged even further.
pretty sure one of the earlier posts was correct with the info on marriage notices being posted, 3 weeks before the marriage i think, therefore try to check them out on line or hire a lawyer here to check for you and then post your objection to the marriage. the marriage should then not go ahead until the person objecting has given their reasons, produced proof and the marriage registry considered everything.
forgive my amateurish psychology but it appears that your daughter is rebelling against something in her relationship with her parents so you and the mother need to look closely and truthfully into how your daughter has been allowed to grow and develop. i'm not for a minute suggesting you were bad parents but you need to check how your daughter has perceived how she has been treated by you both.
Please support our advertisers:
I cannot believe where this post has headed. It is surreal. Bribery, gangsters, Triad what next? I think Ed will need to be careful as he is now hosting a site that supports / suggests to conduct illegal activities. It will be interesting to read the chapter.
Please support our advertisers:
Dear Mycynic, I am a single parent. I think I have been a wonderful parent. Notwithstanding, I am not the first father of a teenager to have a daughter make a bad relationship choice. Obviously, the reason I am reaching out is because her choice goes beyond terrible and into the arm of dangerous.
At this point, I am reaching out for a solution. There must be some avenue of some lawyer who can assist me!
Please support our advertisers:
JayAlan
The answer is in Cara's post and mrcynics. The notice is posted at the government offices (I think still in Admiralty ground floor). You do not need a lawyer, get someone to check on the notices once or twice a week and as soon as posted, raise your objection. If you make an allegation that the guy is already married it can't go ahead without investgation.
Please support our advertisers:
Hi Duncan - The issue is that I believe they married a month or so ago, hence, outside the scope of the 15 days.
To the extent that bigamy is a crime, and that the Marriage Registry falls within the arms of Immigration, I've asked Immigrations to confirm the marriage, but they have yet to get back with me. Hence, I have no idea if they are proceeding accordingly.
Please support our advertisers:
He is from India. If there is any justice in this world, he will do more than a few months in jail. Because he is under the protection of the Untied Nations refugee status (UNHCR) they won't deport him. I agree there are no easy answers.
I just hope that if he is arrested, and charges for child rape follow (he was in jail previously for attempted murder and "over beating" in India) that maybe my daughter will leave him. She has had a few boyfriends.
Actually, whether she is in HK or India or anywhere else, as long as she is with him she is in danger. I was with his wife again today (still can't believe any man would marry a 14 year old child and then beat her). Her youth was interrupted. She tells me this guy is anything but sympathetic or caring. He is the worse type of control freak. When combining a 6th grade education to these character traits, its a dangerous combination. My daughter only says that he has changed! Yeah, for the worse! I love her and I miss her and I am concerned for her health and safety.
Please support our advertisers:
hmmm ... ur posts sound very inconsistent. u started posting 4 days ago and said that your daughter wanted to get married, now you say maybe she is already married. You are with this guys wife? she's 14yrs old? in eastern europe? where are you? somehow the story seems a bit all over the place..
Please support our advertisers:
My daughter is 19. She has told others that she married this guy. Hence, I believe she has been married and I am trying to confirm this now through the Marriage Registry. The "14 year old" in issue is the girl that he married in India in 2007. Shortly after marriage he became concerned that he would be arrested for child rape which is the crime in India when a man over 21 has intercourse with a girl under 16. Hence, he fled to HK and sought UNHCR refugees protection. I am from the US but relocated to Eastern Europe 5 months ago. My daughter was here with us (I am a single parent w other children) until a month ago. She is currently in HK but but talking with me. She communicate with her siblings but basically says that she gets he has done bad things but he "has changed."
Please support our advertisers:
1) how do you know so much about this man?
2) you say you are in eastern Europe and this man married a 14 year old (he is from India so i guess this 14 year old is also from India), so what do you mean when you say "i was with his wife again today"
i feel this all doesn't add up.
Please support our advertisers:
Response to Syde_Scorpio:
1. We used to reside in HK. Upon learning about this guy in her life (whom she said was 22 years old, he was actually 27 at the time and 28 now), I started hearing from others that he is dangerous and has a checked past. When I approached him about these issues, he threatened to kill me. I went to the police but they said there wasn't much they could do. Obviously concerned, I thought it best that we leave HK. However, she returned to be with him. I then heard that he has beaten my daughter. Hence, I immediately returned. I was either at the police station or Immigrations every day for the 25 days I was there. While there, I was introduced to a young domestic helper that he had gotten pregnant and then told he was leaving HK. She had this guys wife contact, the 14 year old in India (now 18). It was she (the Indian wife) who revealed so much to me. As verification, she sent me the marriage certificate and her ID, establishing proof of age. She also was the one who told me about his criminal past, a fact he doesn't deny, actually holds as a badge of honor!
Upon leaving HK in June we returned to the US. Thereafter my daughter returned to HK-- I followed. Then, after 25 days we both left and went to Eastern Europe. My other children joined. However, she once again returned to HK about a month. She has since been telling others that she is married.
I did not finance these return trips to HK. He has been sending her money. Ostensibly from the combination of UNHCR payments, immigration fraud and drug sales.
At this point I have written extensively to Immigration regarding prosecution against him for bigamy. This would nullify the marriage. The fact that my daughter, 19, didn't have my consent to marry, as required by HK law for anyone under 21, this might also be grounds to nullify. See: www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/bdmreg_4.htm and Chapter 179 Section 20 (c) of the HK Matrimonial Clause ordinance regarding nullification of marriage.
I love my daughter and I want her to be safe and happy. I just hope that Immigrations goes after him.
Please support our advertisers:
I Understand
things make sense now
Only way to prove that he got a previous wife is by marriage certificate and i doubt you can get that if girl was underage, at most it could be intercourse with an underage girl, which will be very difficult to prove,
the best shot i can think of is a written statement by his previous wife that they are married and she has objections of this man's second marriage.
that may be put in front of immigration to dissolve the marriage, and put him behind bars, but for how long? and will that keep him away from your daughter?
Please support our advertisers:
I have their marriage certificate from India. She wants him arrested for marriage fraud and child rape. He stole her youth, demoralized her, abused her mentally and physically. The issue, the man will claim, isn't that he was married, but rather that he has already divorced. But the divorce certificate s fake. She wasn't even aware of a divorce proceeding and he, under Indian law, would have had to have been present. This could not have happened since he is under UNHCR protection. As such, he can't leave HK.
I have an Immigration case number but now need them to take action. I also need a lawyer to file a nullification action on my behalf. I am still searching for a lawyer who is willing to be reasonable with fees and payment terms.
Please support our advertisers:
I have their marriage certificate from India. She wants him arrested for marriage fraud and child rape. He stole her youth, demoralized her, abused her mentally and physically. The issue, the man will claim, isn't that he was married, but rather that he has already divorced. But the divorce certificate s fake. She wasn't even aware of a divorce proceeding and he, under Indian law, would have had to have been present. This could not have happened since he is under UNHCR protection. As such, he can't leave HK.
I have an Immigration case number but now need them to take action. I also need a lawyer to file a nullification action on my behalf. I am still searching for a lawyer who is willing to be reasonable with fees and payment terms.
Please support our advertisers:
I have their marriage certificate from India. She wants him arrested for marriage fraud and child rape. He stole her youth, demoralized her, abused her mentally and physically. The issue, the man will claim, isn't that he was married, but rather that he has already divorced. But the divorce certificate s fake. She wasn't even aware of a divorce proceeding and he, under Indian law, would have had to have been present. This could not have happened since he is under UNHCR protection. As such, he can't leave HK.
I have an Immigration case number but now need them to take action. I also need a lawyer to file a nullification action on my behalf. I am still searching for a lawyer who is willing to be reasonable with fees and payment terms.
Please support our advertisers:
actually i would not be so sure that his divorce certificate is not valid.
first of all, you can divorce someone in india from hong kong under hong kong law. whatever the india law says is not relevant for the hk authorities.
i believe that under hong kong law, you can divorce as long as you serve the papers to the wife (or at least make a genuine attempt to serve the papers in india).
the best example of the above is the many philippino people who divorce under the hong kong law and then get married again in hong kong, while the philippines doesnt even allow a divorce under the philippines law...
secondly, your claim about parental consent for marriage under hong kong law, there are ways to circumvent this if one can prove that the parent is not the guardian anymore. your daughter certainly has a very solid claim that you are not a guardian, but rather just trying to interfere into her life.
my general sense is, that maybe the hong kong authorities have taken note about your claims, but can't do anything because your legal ground is weak or not relevant (as just seen above with the divorce certificate).
your other claims of child rape, etc., do you have a valid Indian court or prosecutor documents that shows that he is indeed being prosecuted under this and should be extradited, or is it also just 'claims'?
last but not least - and a few others have mentioned this too before - i think you are fighting a losing battle. you will not be able to win back your daughter's mind in this way. sometimes we have to let go of our beloved ones for them to make and build their own life. by nature, this involves mistakes and learning - some of them can be dangerous, but nevertheless they might be necessary for someone to find their path in life.
Please support our advertisers:
Hi Cookie09 - No HK law would allow for ex-parte divorce involving an oversea marriage. The Indian wife doesn't even know about any divorce proceeding. Either do the courts in India. I asked the Indian wife to confirm if there was anything on record and she replied that her lawyer said no! Court files show they remain married. However, just to make sure, I will ask someone to check HK records to confirm whether there is a divorce on file.
The law is clear, under the age of 21 requires parental consent to marry. This can't be circumvented by a concerned parent. The law was created to give concerned parents the opportunity to voice their opinion.
My legal ground is solid. Immigration has only had the bigamy claim for about 9 days. However, I don't like putting all of my eggs in the Immigration basket! Hence, I am seeking private representation.
This is not about "fighting a losing battle." I call it trying to protect my daughter from a dangerous criminal, one whom has already beaten her! One plus one equals three is a mistake. What's happening here is a tragedy that could cost my daughter her life. This guy has already been to prison in India for attempted murder and over beating. For a child rape conviction the Indian prosecutors need look no further than his marriage in India. Under Indian law, consent is not a defense to sex between a man over 21 and a girl under 16. I will never sit back while harm or even potential harm is happening to any of my children!
Please support our advertisers:
look, i think you really need a lawyer.
just some more input in order to play devil's advocate and for you to find the legally solid ground:
1. Of course you can do a de-facto ex-parte divorce in hong kong for a marriage in india. the only requirement is to serve papers to the wife in india. this can be done by a third-party by hand or by mail. if it fails to reach her in these forms, with the approval of the court, you can serve papers by advertising it in the newspaper! you might indeed want to check whether a divorce is on file in hong kong, because that is what counts.
2. re parental consent, again there are ways to forgo your consent if she likes to behave tricky. for a starter, she could have obtained her mother's consent. secondly, she could argue that both her parents are not traceable, and hence a guardian should be appointed - who can then give consent.
i am not saying this is likely and you do have a good case, but legally there are almost always some loopholes.
disclaimer: i am not a lawyer at all and hence what i am saying above holds no ground whatsoever. a proper lawyer can advise you what to do.
Please support our advertisers:
Since I have already responded to point one (see above) I will focus on point two.
There is no mother, just me. Yes, she could have lied, actually I assume she did, and said whatever she wanted. But this goes to grounds to nullify the marriage. Otherwise, what's the point of the rule! Of course, the big hope is immigrations goes after him for bigamy.
I've already repeated herein that I recognize the need for a lawyer. I literally don't have the resources. Hence, I am hoping Legal Aid gets involved. But this could take months! I get that I am not in a good position especially with this guys habit of mistreating girls and women and also getting them pregnant!
I get sick thinking how this idiot could might now be smacking my child around and there isn't anything I can do about it! If someone knows a magical way to get Immigration to act, please advise!
Please support our advertisers:
I just check and confirmed. He could have divorced in HK. However, he would have had to provide notice to the respondent which he didn't do! If this did happen, he would have had to of bypassed the rules and pretended he couldn't contact her. If so, and he is found to have mislead the court, then the court would likely take offense and be more inclined to nullify the marriage.
I now need to find out the procedure to obtain the public record to see if he divorced.
Please support our advertisers:
do you have 2 ID on this forum?
1) JayAlan
2) SmilingFlowers ????
and how do you find stuff so quickly?
how do you know that he might be divorced but didnt send notice to respondent?
if he is divorced then there is very little you can do legally
BTW you cant prove that he married an underage person, since no one in his right mind would be a part of underage marriage in India, and he cant register the marriage.
Please support our advertisers:
Yes, also SmilingFlower is mine. I did a quick Google check to see that a a foreigner can divorce in HK: www.hkclic.org/en/topics/matrimonialMatters/divorce/precondition/q2.shtml
Even if he divorced in HK if he didn't comply with the rule of service of notice, then it might still be possible to nullify the marriage.
Of course I can prove he married an underage person! I have their marriage license and her ID copy. The married Jan 15, 2007 when she was 14. However, he misrepresented this material fact on the marriage application and listed her at age 18. Only after her schoolmates and others got suspicious did he decide to leave Kolkata for HK. Once here, he applied for refugee protection under the UNHCR.
Once again, even assuming she consented to marriage and having sex with him, these factors are no defense in India where the law flatly states that any man over 21 who has sexual relational with a girl under the age of 16 is guilty of rape.
At this point, I need to confirm whether they are, in fact, married. Also, where did he file for divorce and whether he complied with the rules. I get that I need a HK lawyer.
Even if I can't catch him in the act of selling drugs, we should be able to catch him working. He would then be arrested for immigration violations.
Please support our advertisers:
I can sympathise with you and your situation. I suggest you get the Indian consulate involved from the top level besides all the things you are doing. I have come across a lot of people recently who have filed under the UNHCR system and 95% are abusing it at the cost of the HK taxpayer. Most are economic migrants, many have FAKE HKID cards in order to get work here, many have been deported and come back with new (NOT FAKE ) passports under a new identity. If you speak to a consular official and get more details about the background of the person you may get pointers how to proceed. he is probably on the police watch list in INDIA if your assumptions of his past are correct.
Most of these migrants (if from INDIA) are either from West Bengal or from Punjab province with little or no education. Indian laws are pretty strict but hardly enforced and the legal syatem there is shabby.
Most of these UNHCR claimants can stretch the system from 2 to 6 years before being deported. How long has he been here for. What grounds ??? If he claims that he was tortured by cops in India as a murder suspect or convict, you should dig more into the past and sit down with your daughter and explain nicely about the person she is involved with. Force will never work. Good luck. A very tough call for a parent.
PS maybe he married her in the INDIAN Sikh TEMPLE in Happy valley. That is the hub for most UNHCR claimants and perhapss you could meet their head priest for assistance as well.
Please support our advertisers:
I just think she is so very luck to have a father that cares for her so much and will fight for her. Even if she doesn't realize it now, she will one day. If only there were more fathers like you. I wish you all the best.
Please support our advertisers:
Hey JayAlan, what's the latest mate?
Please support our advertisers:
My friend went to the Marriage Registry and their initial search didn't show them in the system. He needs to wait a week for the formal results. I am trying to find someone to follow him to his work. Since he is not able to legally work in HK, Immigration will arrest him. My responsibility is to separate my daughter from this guy. I get that my intervention may frustrate my daughter, but I would rather have her angry at me that be bruised by him.
I am open to alternatives and suggestions, but nothing else is working.
Please support our advertisers:
< Back to main category
You must be logged in to be able to reply.
Login now
Copy Link
Facebook
Gmail
Mail