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Ed
15 yrs ago
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html?mod
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Chinese Mothers React
Amy Chua's article "Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior" struck a special nerve in Hong Kong. Many parents here are Western-educated Chinese, or ethnic-Asians -- what's their reaction to the story?
Read more: http://blogs.wsj.com/scene/2011/01/14/chinese-mothersin-hong-kong/
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Amy Chua should do a sitting-in in some of my kindergarten and primary classes here in Hong Kong. I bet she'll not last in any of these classes for 5 minutes. She may even recant her article and had it rewritten after these exercises.. cheers!
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Tough Love, Chinese Style
Amy Chua’s email in-box has become the latest front in the mommy wars. Ever since Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, her warts-and-all book on parenting the Chinese way, inflamed the mommy-blogger universe with its publication last week, Chua has been
http://www.newsweek.com/2011/01/16/tough-love-from-a-chinese-mother.html
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Has Amy Chua Hurt Asian Americans?
Her claim that Chinese moms are the best furthers the "model minority myth"
http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2011/01/notes-of-a-native-tiger-son-part-1/69748/
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Firstly, her book is a memoir of her own parenting experience and not a how to guide. Though I think even she has admitted that some of what she as done is extreme, I believe what she stands for has some merits. Give time to your kids, encourage them, actively guide them in life, instill discipline, challenge them to achieve their maximum are all qualities that parents should strive for.
Definitely there are more tiger moms in HK than in the USA, especially at the upper middle class levels. Asian Americans are outcast anyways in the USA, and with the ascend of China will continue to be. I don't think her article helps in this regard, but who the heck cares. Take it for what it is - one woman's journey raising two girls to be the best they can be.
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MaryO
15 yrs ago
Yes. That is of course if you wish to become wealthy from the sales of your own book.
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Maybe only Chinese moms will buy her books. And yes Chinese moms are the best in screaming their kids.Their kids have no freedom to do the things unless always with approval with their mom.
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Yet people are taking her books as an attack on western parenting methods.
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I agree with Philly Cheese the book is her memoir not a parenting guide. We have to consider that her parenting method is base on her culture & childhood experienced. My mother was a terrible with me before. When I reached the age of 9 that’s were my nightmare started she hit me every single day until I was 19. She used metal hanger, 2*2 wood and even stainless steel. In Filipino culture before hitting your child is a way/part of discipline. I forgive my mom but I will NEVER do the same thing to my children. On the other hand I have friends who grew up in the US that have too much freedom. Lost their virginity at the age of 15 or 16, even tried drugs or alcohol. Parenting is all about love, patience and doing your best as a mother of father.
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My cousin used to say "a short leash, the right amount of food and lots of love". Pretty much sums it up for me.
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I thought her article was interesting, especially the part when she talked about forcing her daughter to play this piano piece over and over again until she got it right. And after the daughter got it right, she was so pleased with herself and really enjoyed playing it and thanked her mother for pushing her to conquer the piece.
My husband just bought me an electric piano for Xmas because I want my children to learn some music and the best way to get them interested is to set an example. However, I'm rubbish! Because I never wanted to practise when I was a kid.
Now I'm wondering if I would have preferred if my parents pushed me harder when I was younger. When you're young... you resent it. But if your parents push you to achieve things, won't you feel proud of yourself??
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Actually the title is only focusing on Chinese mom whether they are the best or not..Only I can say that if your children, child grown up with a good hearted person, respectful, smart, polite, with good interpesonal skills and God fearing it shows only that your THE BEST MOTHER in the world. And every races have their own style of discipline on their family base on their culture and environment.
Its not you give your kids with the luxurious things, give them all kinds of activities that your kids have no time for her/himself anymore. The style of Chinese moms are make their kids busy all day long as well as like them.Its like no tomorrow.
And yes of course we are proud of our parents if they push us to achieve the things but achieving things that kids don't like to do and not fitted to them is useless.Only the parents wants to see their kids joining all kinds of activities even their kids cant afford their mind and body to do such things. And most of the Chinese kids are not independent but they are dependent..
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Ed
15 yrs ago
TIME Mag has picked up on this story now....
The Roar of the Tiger Mom
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2043313,00.html
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Calling your child 'garbage'? I don't think so.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
The New Times weights in:
Amy Chua Is a Wimp
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/opinion/18brooks.html?src=me&ref=homepage
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And I was reading the article its not the proper way of disciplining the child.Especially rejecting child's effort to acheive something that is not your standard as a mother like Chua.You are making your kids perfectionist from the child til she/he become old..Its like she is afraid to failed everytime she does.
Her books become a top seller becuase of the people corious to read it. But honestly I don't like the way she treat her children superiority with no love.
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Tiger Mom - Amy Chua was probably born in the year of the Tiger, hence the name. Also, girls born in the year of the tiger (2010) are also known for their fierce and protective nature, so quite apt.
Americans are scared because they feel China may eclipse them economically (China is #1 foreign debt holder of US credit); US students only finished 17th in the latest PISA tests, while those from Shanghai finished 1st; growth in China is double digit vs low single digit in US; even on the athletics front, Chinese athletes are coming of age (highest medal total ever at last Olympics); China has gone into space and now building a fleet of aircraft carriers, so will challenge the US military soon.
Her book has come out at the right time as all of this issues are weighing on the American psyche.
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sicn
15 yrs ago
Re: Amy Chua is a wimp: Is it true or not, it depends.
It seems no one in America questions WHY the Chinese parents believe the style like hers is the best in parenting. Do you think it may have something to do with what they believe is the best way to succeed in a certain society where they are coming from? In China, being a people/social person with leadership skill in a younger age does not bring success, period. It only brings them to the targets of sabotage and attack. Prestigious schooling background and good grade is the only ticket to open the doors and get ahead for their career. In fact, it is not just China, same situation in all other eastern asian cultures, like Korea and Japan.
So for Amy Chua to apply the same eastern principles in US and brand it as successful parenting, or at least alarmingly remarkable, does that tell us that what it takes to reach success in America has been shifted from leading other people to do the work to actually having to roll up your sleeves and do the work?
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Well there are also many successful parents did a good parenting to their children not the way of Chua's style of discipline. And made their children top in all kind of activities.Smart and talented..
There are some situations that some children when they grow old they don't follow their parents style of discipline instead they reverse it.And there are also some children what the parents does to them they followed it through their old age and apply to their kids someday.
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"Americans are scared because they feel China may eclipse them economically (China is #1 foreign debt holder of US credit); "
Is that somehow relevant? Most of US debt is domestic anyway
"US students only finished 17th in the latest PISA tests, while those from Shanghai finished 1st; "
How would be comparison at country level or comparison between different cities. In Shanghai immigrant workers' kids without hukou can't even get into those schools that are in this test.
"growth in China is double digit vs low single digit in US"
It was great in Angola for many years, too
http://www.indexmundi.com/angola/gdp_real_growth_rate.html
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Tiger Moms: Is Tough Parenting Really the Answer?
More http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2043313,00.html
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Tiger Moms: Let The Debate Continue
http://blogs.forbes.com/carolinehoward/2011/01/20/tiger-moms-chinese-mothers-amy-chua-parenting-discipline/?boxes=Homepagelighttop
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How is that relevant wowowo?
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Educ tests - It's not just the Shanghai result, consistent results across Asian countries that share the same style of education - HK, Singapore, Korea, etc all near the top. Yes you can argue that HK is a city and Singapore is a City state to invalidate those results, but the reality is that American education is falling behind.
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That may be true, but then the question becomes: are good grades the objective of raising children?
To quote Ken Robinson:
"If you were to visit education, as an alien, and say "What's it for, public education?" I think you'd have to conclude -- if you look at the output, who really succeeds by this, who does everything that they should, who gets all the brownie points, who are the winners -- I think you'd have to conclude the whole purpose of public education throughout the world is to produce university professors. Isn't it? They're the people who come out the top. And I used to be one, so there. And I like university professors, but you know, we shouldn't hold them up as the high-water mark of all human achievement. They're just a form of life, another form of life."
I'm not saying good grades aren't important, but they're not the only important thing.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Tiger Moms: Is Tough Parenting Really the Answer?
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2043313,00.html
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I think that strict parenting can be combined with nurturing and warmth. The problem is when parenting is only permissive or only hard and demanding.
There's no need to be a tyrant in order for your kids to do well. Nurture their own motivation and will to succeed with other methods than coldness and unrelenting demands. This doesn't mean permissiveness. Set clear boundaries and demand performance, but use positive methods as much as possible.
I do think there are some things which can be learned from Ms. Chua. For example her words about many parents shielding their kids from discomfort and distress, making them "wimps". Couldn't agree more. Children are much stronger than most people give them credit for. They can and will rise to the occasion if we let them.
One issue with a "pure" Tiger Mom approach is that it can easily backfire, with the kids hating their parents or just throwing themselves off a bridge when nothing they do is good enough.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Excellent post madtown...
And this opens a whole different but related can of worms...
It seems that we have this obsession with mega-money and 'things'...
Seems to me that this is a recent phenomenon... and I think it's a product of a consumer-driven society that has been consciously created by producers in collusion with PR and Advertising companies... along with of course the media (look at all those flashing banners on this site - AsiaXPAT is without question part of the wheel...)
We are lead to believe that 'things' will make us happy... but do they... perhaps so... but this is a dangerous addiction because there's never enough...
Look at the cult of wealth... TV program such as Cribs that worship the extravagant homes of stars... or the obscene displays of wealth by the ultra wealthy.. for example Microsoft Paul Allen's yacht with helicopter pads... or closer to home... this madness http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/greathomesanddestinations/16gh-thailand.html
And extending this thought further... many come to believe that those who do not have 'things' are less worthy as human beings and treat them so... it's gone beyond 'keeping up with the jones'... how many times have you passed judgment on someone in Hong Kong by their address... or their job?
Nothing wrong with having money and enjoying it... but perhaps there is a middle ground... afterall... does anyone want to turn 70 and count their accomplishments by the size of their bank account - the number of homes they own...
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It is indeed a can of worms, and it starts young. I'm just waiting for my daughter to ask me why her next birthday party won't feature a clown, a face painter and a bouncy castle. We don't need these things to make us happy, but we are teaching kids they need them.
I'll add my praise for madtown's post. Very well put.
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Interesting post.
I agree with Madtown and Cara that good parenting is about involvement in the life of a child and the establishment of a life-long relationship of mutual caring and support. Developing children's curiosity for the world and special skills is vital.
What is missing, I feel, from the wider discussion of this in the community is the question of how we prepare our children to be kinder, more compassionate people in an age of disasters, doubt and uncertainty. How do we teach our children to care for, respect the rights of, and to serve others? If we can all produce children who are able to develop their own wonderful inate gifts and who can sustain responsible human relationships that would be fab. But it would be even better if our children went beyond themselves to help others. Parents who produce children like that have my greatest admiration. These I would call 'superior' parents because they have not developed a child out of vanity or self-interest, but out of a deep desire to realise the child's highest potential for both the benefit of the child and society.
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Wow Ms Chua ...get a life...but hey you can finally afford that gold Mercedes and tacky gold interior you have wanted with all your book sales......
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Nice madtown...i like it...;) very TALENTED person from your own mind and not pushing by your parents..
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Ed
15 yrs ago
An American Dad on Raising a Tiger Daughter
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2043296,00.html
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Ms Chua did not promote the issue of achievement for consumerism sake. Let's not forget that many immigrants to the USA cannot afford to go skiing (one of the most expensive sports out there), or partake in the myriad of activities that is available to established middle-class American families. They had to work hard to provide for their families and this work ethic is passed down to their children. Furthermore, if you are a visible minority, you have to stand out even more to get ahead. It is only when they themselves have moved into middle-class will they have the time to partake in all those activities. I think her girls' generation will be different - more whitebread American.
As for time spent by HK kids - if only all of those things were available. Tennis courts - limited and difficult to book. Golf - forget it. Water skiing - limited availability but very expensive. Mountain biking - very limited. Road cycling - only for the suicidal - oh yea, there is a path from Shatin up north (also for the suicidal). Shooting - only for members of the gun club. Skating - limited and always crowded and expensive compared to USA.
So your typical HKer does what he can - badminton and table tennis - very popular because it can be done indoors (a/c no pollution), relatively easy to book courts and not too expensive; football/basketball - lots of cement fields and cheap; bowling - similar reasons as badminton. And that's about it. Compared to a lot of mainland cities, the facilities in HK are crap and people are generally inactive.
Eg on a trip to Guilin, from sunrise to midmorning, all along the Li River are locals exercising - with swords, with balls, with badminton racquets, stretching, Tai Chi, etc. They have lots of fields (grass) for football, cycling paths, nature hikes, etc.
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ew Amy Chua is a Filipino-Chinese-American.
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/global-filipino/01/21/11/chinoy-ams-book-strict-parenting-stirs-debate..
Go, go, go Amy Chua!!I will not follow your style of parenting method. I love my kid and not a hate. Iam not a MUMMY!! but Iam a mother..;)
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Chinese parenting certainly has some benefits, but I had not heard a good analysis of how well it prepares children to be successful adults. If parents don't have a clear end in mind, how can they make good choices today? The subject is full of circular reasoning and assumptions, many of which are untrue or only half-true.
For example:
Why are you pushing your 2 year old to learn Mandarin and English? Because the best pre-school programs are very competitive and a good pre-school is the very important in getting into the best kindergarten.
The best kindergarten is the best way to get into the best primary school
The best primary school is the best way to get into the best high school/college prep school
The best high school/prep school is the best way to get into the top HK or foreign university
The last question is why is it so important to graduate from a top HK or foreign university. The answer is that jobs in the top HK companies are very competitive and if you don't have any special connections, a top HK or foreign university education is the best way to get a job with one of these companies.
The HK education establishment and HK parents have narrowly focused their attention on a very small number of entry level jobs at a small number of companies. They don't even go to the next step and ask whether the skills they developed, at a very high personal cost, are relevant to their later success within the company. It is very common that the actual skills used on the job have very little to do with what was studied in university. The best promotions are usually had for employees with the best social skills, not for being able solve obscure mathematics problems.
What happens to the vast majority who do not get one of these few entry level jobs? While this elitist mindset towards parenting and education may serve the needs of a very small number, it is also destructive to the wider majority of people.
The Chinese engineers in my company are very skilled at doing calculations, but are also highly uncreative. The regimentation of the education system and over-awe of authority makes them good at making more of the same item or making it cheaper, but they are terrible at coming up with new and innovative ideas.
After one's basic needs are met, how do you measure success in life? I'm not at all sure that Chinese mothers are any better at answering that question than anyone else.
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There is a skill in making a mediocre student into a higher performer, but I wonder about the wisdom of thinking this makes one a superior mother. I think one can push and push and produce someone who can tick all the boxes, but that person may never end up being one of those who contributes the most to their fields. Frequently, the people who excel are those who are self-driven. The academic stars I have met have often come from families that were struggling, and the children themselves pushed themselves to the top. It is well known that Einstein felt of himself as being retarded, and that indeed he did not even speak until 2 or so...For those who value trivia... 'cold soup' were his first words. No one really pushed him, and in fact, he failed most of the time. His genuis came from his own curiosity about the natural world and world of physics. Really, who needs another piano playing human calculator that just can put themselves through all the hoops...? While mass literacy is a noble goal, we shouldn't pin gold stars on people just for being bilingual or for getting their sums right because someone is on their back night and day. What is really impressive is self-motivated innovators and people who against all odds struggle successfully against adversity to achieve their goals... those with disabilities, or in the midst of poverty who overcome real hardship and show genuine talent. I mean who is really impressed when a middle-class child with numerous tutors at the beck and call and a mommy and daddy with a big cheque book makes the grade... Sorry, not me.
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something I heard this week......talk from a few older generation Chinese ladies......how their husbands/families owed them for being mommies who 'produced' a lawyer/doctor/banker ect.......joking they deserved pressies for their achievement, a rock, a flat ect
strange way to put it.....never heard it before....but perhaps ties in with being a tiger mum, in a way it is a job and your achievement if you succeed?
anyone heard any ideas like this, I'm curious.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Revisiting an earlier thought about not wanting to turn 70 and measuring accomplishments by material things....
How about turning 89 and...
http://blogs.forbes.com/robertolsen/2011/01/25/casino-billionaires-wealth-swindled-by-family/
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Ah what the heck... while I'm on topic... speaking of the 'cult of wealth' created by the media that drives us to want more things... here's a perfect example...
Personally I find this story absolutely appalling and rather than celebrating such an action shouldn't the media be mocking and shaming?
A Fruit Fit For A Casino King http://blogs.forbes.com/billions/2010/07/20/a-fruit-fit-for-a-casino-king/
A symptom of a disease... http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-24/opinion/safina.humans.taxing.world_1_sea-turtles-biodiversity-world-population?_s=PM:OPINION
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You can be the most creative, innovative person in the whole world, but if you don't know how to implement you'll never get anything done. Both skills are important. Just look at Disney in HK. To be successful, you need both. But by giving your kids discipline, you give them a good foundation on which to build.
You only need one chief and many indians. If you're a good indian, that can be very lucrative financially, plus the odds of being the good indian is better than being the chief, and Chinese parents will factor those odds in when making their decision. Many intl companies in HK like to hire all the "talkers" but many of them get nothing done, because all they can do is talk. They come for a few years and then leave because pretty soon everyone catches on they cannot do, just talk. I have seen enough of the pretty Powerpoint presentations with no substance behind them - all strategy and no tactics.
Furthermore, the reason why Asian kids get pushed into the being doctors, engineers and accountants is because those jobs require more quantitative skills rather than verbal /written communication. As Sun Tzu says, you compete in the areas where you are strong. Most immigrants to US are not strong at communication and thus push their kids to be good at the other skills. But in this age of mass communication, the smart parents will provide their kids with a more rounded experience so they can compete better.
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"Many intl companies in HK like to hire all the "talkers" but many of them get nothing done, because all they can do is talk."
So true. However it is not unique to HK. Seagull managers are ubiquitous in the West.
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The obsessive Chinese Mom fits into a pattern. Whenever someone crawls up out of poverty, they often carry around an inferiority complex that compels them to work harder than anyone else and win at any cost. They are also terrified that something bad will happen and they will slip back down into poverty. Families that have been wealthy for several generations have a confidence about their position, so they don't have the fear and insecurity that drives them to excel.
The big challenge for all social-climbing families is the second and third generation. The children of the "nouveau riche" never experienced poverty, so they don't share their parents desperation. To the children, life has always been easy and pleasant. The parents respond by bullying their children to work harder and longer and be the best at everything. While bullying Chinese mothers are successful up to a point, Amy Chua doesn't report the destructive dark side, such as failed marriages, drug use, suicides, depression, anger, broken relationships, etc. Children, including Chinese children, are not mindless robots that can be forcibly molded into their parents image without negative consequences.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Kids only a Wall Street mother could love
Much like the children raised by Chua and those of her ilk, the Wall Street culture is focused on its own brand of stereotypical success. The majority, say 90%, of this success is about money — having it, flaunting it, using it as a gauge for self-esteem.
Like Chinese children, it isn’t enough for Wall Street types to be good at their business; they have to be No. 1. If they’re not or they protest, they’re “garbage,” as Chua once told her daughter. If a banker who falls short isn’t humiliated by his or her bosses, you can bet that competitors are trashing them.
Under this kind of pressure, it’s no wonder competition is so intense, and no surprise that many on Wall Street are surprised and belligerent when challenged about their practices and pay. Reward, after all, isn’t just the measuring stick; it is the validation of superiority.
More http://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-if-your-mom-worked-on-wall-street-2011-01-11
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I have long admired the level of family loyalty I observed in Chinese families. As a Westerner, it seems so nice. The Chinese idea "face" also means that they hide their true opinions from people they don't trust, so foreigners can easily get the wrong idea.
Chinese New Year is a happy time for most Chinese families, but not everyone. A couple close Chinese friends told me that their entire immediate family travels every year to Japan for CNY. When I asked why they would go to Japan, they flashed some anger on their face and said they wanted to get out of HK to avoid their f*****g relatives. That is very strong language for decent Chinese people, especially when you consider that they were also referring to their parents.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Hong Kong's Tiger Daughter
HONG KONG — Have you been called stupid, ugly, useless or garbage by your parents? Were you ever caned, slapped or spanked? Were you barred from watching TV and made to practice music for hours?
Most of my Western friends were shocked when I told them I had been subjected to all of this as a child. Yet in Hong Kong there is nothing unusual about it — this is just normal parental discipline in Chinese culture.
To those who were outraged by the strict disciplinarian Chinese parenting style touted by “Tiger mother” Amy Chua in her controversial new book, some perspective is necessary. Most Chinese parents have a Hobbesian view of the world: They see it as their job to toughen up their children and arm them with the skills necessary to survive in a competitive and brutish environment.
Like the typical Chinese parents described by Ms. Chua, my mother expected toughness from her children. In our household, lack of interest or aptitude was not an excuse for poor performance. If you failed, you simply had to work harder.
I was made to practice the piano for at least an hour a day, and when we were out of school, it was three hours. We were not allowed to watch TV, except for news. When I scored less than 90 in dictation (that is, getting two words wrong), I had to explain why I didn’t do as well as before.
I didn’t look forward to weekends or term breaks — they just meant more music practice and tedious long sessions of drilled academic learning and homework. (But don’t blame just the parents, schools here pride themselves on the amount of homework they hand out to their pupils and the frequency of tests and exams.)
Did my mother’s high-pressure approach work? In a way, yes. I have never been a top student, but my academic performance was always above-average. I went to a prestigious boarding school in England; I have two degrees and won a scholarship for a research fellowship at the University of Oxford. I passed a strict exam for piano studies with merit at age 14 and played a piano concerto with an orchestra at 17.
The high expectations did pressure me into working hard. Early on, a sense of anxiety was instilled in me; if I didn’t do well, I would be in big trouble. I always push myself to work at full capacity and never allow myself to give up, no matter how daunting the task.
Could this parenting approach yield stereotypically successful children?
At least in terms of academic and musical achievements, the answer appears to be yes. Just look at the Asian households that produce all those musical prodigies and math geniuses. But there is a down side as well. As someone who has survived this regime, I believe what often propels these Chinese kids to succeed is a deep sense of insecurity — that they are only worthy of love so long as they keep getting top marks.
Even as adults, the emotional scarring from the harsh words and name-calling never quite leaves you. Behind the determination of many young Chinese to excel is a deep-rooted anxiety that they will be ridiculed and shamed unless they succeed.
This parenting philosophy also fails to yield a genuine sense of confidence, and instead results in a sense of insecurity so damning that the child has to spend the rest of his life trying to prove himself to be a worthy person.
Many people I know who were brought up this way ended up having a strained relationship with their parents. Some might be successful in their careers but are angry that they never had the chance to discover who they are. The less successful ones never quite recover from low self-image.
As a mother, I wouldn’t mind having a straight-A child who also happens to be a math and music prodigy. But what I see as more important is to cultivate a healthy and balanced personality with genuine self-respect and confidence, and a sense of moral values; not a child driven to achieve out of insecurity, competition or a desperate sense of inadequacy, but out of a real desire to learn and discover.
Is it a good thing for our world to be full of emotionally insecure individuals or less brilliant but more contented people with an inner confidence?
As a tiger daughter, I think I know the answer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/opinion/29iht-edyu29.html
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I have seen how Chinese children behave, and proper hygiene will make your eyebrow raise? We are particulars to cleanliness and good manners.
Students go to school same clothes for one week, finger nails are long and dirty, bad breath, and no manners at all.
First education begins at home. During my school days, our teacher asked a student if she/he dressed untidy, "Did your mother see you before you go to school? So it reflects what kind of mothers do they have.
Sorry, but its real.
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My wife works as a native English teacher at a Chinese kindergarten. She is often shocked by the behavior of the Chinese teachers. They yell, scream and humiliate the children to a shocking degree. This week, one teacher seemed to terrorize one boy all day. If it had been a school in the U.S., she would have reported the teacher to the school and maybe even called the police to report an assault. She is mourning for the damage done to the boy.
On the other hand, she has seen incredibly bad behavior from Chinese students. They are often rude, stubborn and have serious authority problems. When my wife uses more mild (Western) techniques to control students, it isn't very effective. Are the Chinese teachers mean and nasty because of the bad students or are the students bad because their parents and teachers are bad? Whatever started it, it is pretty negative.
A big East-West difference in child-control techniques is rooted in shame vs. guilt. Chinese parents and teachers primarily use shame as the means of getting children to comply. Yelling and public humiliation are a necessary part of a the process. Western parents and teachers primarily use guilt as a means of getting children to comply. That means explaining why certain behavior is the "right" thing to do and "punishing" the children as the "good and right" thing to do.
The results of the Chinese parenting style are very apparent in Hong Kong. When I get on a bus, I often see Hong Kong people all taking the aisle seats. When I am looking for a seat, they are resistant to doing anything to help me find a seat. They are not trained to "do the right thing", but only avoid shame. Chinese people can be very selfish and indifferent to anyone else. This attitude starts with Chinese mothers and teachers.
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I don't think you can blame rude behavior on teachers. Parents have a role too. Things like sitting in an aisle seat on bus, closing elevator door as you approach, standing in front of door in mtr, and not giving their seat to those in need are all prevalent here. Why is that? Do they not know any better or are they just plain selfish or just how they see other people doing same so follow suit or some other reason?
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Larry Summers vs. the Tiger Mom
We can only guess what he would have made of the phenomenon that is Amy Chua, the Yale law professor who was once merely a trenchant commentator on globalization but is now, thanks to a sensational new book, the world's most admired, feared, loved and loathed mother. Larkin's pop psychology would surely have made hay with the story of how Ms. Chua once forced her daughter to go without food and drink until she had learned how to play a tune on the piano.
More http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703956604576109962171060504.html
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Basker25 I think your comments are very insightful. They mirror my own observations, mainly that in this culture you are either someone to the index person or a nobody. If you are a nobody i.e. lady in a supermarket aisle, person on the bus, mtr, street, pretty much they do the bare minimum to avoid shame but not necessarily the right thing.
However if you are someone, like a relative, friend, perceived superior, the extreme over the top courtesy, welcome and generosity comes out.
I'm used to the western way and think it is better, but that is only my perspective. I'm guessing the locals may feel that the western way is not generous enough to those form your circle?
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The Chinese Shame-based and Western Guilt-based societies are big differences that are structural and not likely to change. Each orientation has some advantages and disadvantages. Amy Chua points out some good qualities of Chinese parenting, such as their emphasis on hard work and toughness, but also ignores its weaknesses. Western parents would be wise to adopt a more disciplined approach. While I also complain about the social decay of Western values, I don't think Chinese parents have the answer. The larger trend toward more permissiveness and less self-discipline in Western societies results in less moral clarity, less financial discipline and more demand for immediate gratification. To change this trend, it is first necessary to understand how and why Western values have changed. I am not optimistic that the larger trends in values can be changed.
If Chinese students work harder and get better test scores, then they should get more university places and scholarships. If other racial/ethnic groups lose out in the competition, in they shouldn't blame the Chinese for their hard work. Maybe the losers should get off their sofas and get to work. On the other hand, graduating from the top universities will not give the successful Chinese the ability to dominate society. There are other qualities that are even more important than high test scores in school. If the Chinese figure out the more important social values, then maybe the West should be more concerned.
Of course, U.S. society is great at absorbing new groups. If the rich Chinese man becomes an American citizen, owns a big company in the U.S. that hires lots of people, why should I care. He is someone to be admired.
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After reading the Amy Chua saga, all I kept thinking was, god help her husband. That guy is doomed.
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In America girls are treated maybe too sweetly, and are not prepared to handle stress. so many women take paxil/prozac!
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http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/372153/january-25-2011/the--battle-hymn-of-the-tiger-mother--controversy
this should clear many things up.
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http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/372156/january-25-2011/amy-chua
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Ed
15 yrs ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAel_qRfKx8
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Amy Chua On Tiger Parenting Future Leaders
http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/09/tiger-mom-amy-chua-parenting-forbes-woman-leadership-self-esteem.html
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a response to Amy Chua
http://www.thestar.com/news/globalvoices/article/933688--global-voices-ruling-with-compassion-rather-than-an-iron-trunk
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Tiger Mothers or Elephant Mothers?
ale Law Professor Amy Chua's recent paean to what she describes as the Chinese "tiger" style of mothering has stirred debate worldwide. But do we really want to live in a world of solitary tigers who have been rigorously trained to think only of themselves?
More http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/singer71
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Have Sympathy for the Tiger Moms
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1969/12/sympathy-for-the-tiger-moms/8399/
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