Posted by
russie
13 yrs ago
Hi,
I am currently contemplating applying for a post at a school in Hong Kong. It is offering a good package - HK$92,000 a month plus relocation costs, medical scheme and bonus. However, after reading many forum sites, I'm a little concerned about the pollution issue. Many people are warning me not to apply because of the level of pollution and that many are leaving Hong Kong because of this. I visited HK back in December 2005 and didn't find it too bad. Maybe I was lucky (apparently, it has got a lot worse since then). Basically, should I let the pollution put me off applying for this post? I am a single male (37yrs) with no children. I have heard people say "Is any amount of money worth your health?" and I can see where they're coming from but I would like your opinions. What would you do?
Thanks guys.
PS Would HK$92,000 a month enable me to have a comfortable lifestyle in Hong Kong?
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Go get it man. It's a great deal.
There are almost 8 million people in Hong Kong and we're fine. What you can do is make a plan of staying here for say, 2 years, and during that time you can decide whether you want to stay or leave.
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Agreed with punter and it is a good deal. Most of the expats stay in Hong Kong would mainly concern about the air pollution problem but I believe it could be tackled by having a good Air Purifer, such as IQAir. Feel free to PM me if you want more information on it.
But it's definitely a fantastic city to stay and i believe that you will love it!
PS HK$92,000 a month would be good enough for you to have a comfortable lifestyle in Hong Kong for sure, as long as you didn't have a shoppingholic problem.=>
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Agree, you can have a great lifestyle on that salary.
If you have concerns for your health but dont mind living a bit further out from Central/TST, then there are many places where air quality is better. Im sure you are going to get some posts telling you how terrible it is. I can even recall a recent post stating that "you can see and taste the air"... ??? I guess it really depends on the life style you can afford. If you can only afford a small room in Mong Kok above 500 shops deep frying calamari, and steaming sil mai and fish balls, yeah you are going to suffer. But on the package you mentioned you wont be in a situation to "tase the air.."
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That's true. Choosing to live in Hong Kong Island or said, the south side of Hong Kong would be better for the air quality. One of the main reason of poor air quality is the pollutants from China, that's why the people may see some "Fog" (Actually that's smog) in the winter time.
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as cara says, there is NOWHERE here that has significantly (or consistently measurable) higher air quality than another, but CERTAINLY NOT HK Island North (the postcard view we all know)...if you're single, def. take the offer...you would jump in as one of the highest paid teachers (if it is a teaching post) that I know of...I was looking at my wife's salary scale at one of the top 3 (actually recently voted 'best') IS in Hong Kong, and even a 15year vet with MEd doesn't approach that...congrats and enjoy it!
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Fixer
13 yrs ago
Sounds like a great package, Go4it russie! A lot of what's said on these forums is scaremongering, -though parts of HK can be pretty bad certain times of the year, but which city doesn't have it's bad days?
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Thanks for your posts. They've been very helpful. It is a non-teaching post in a school (managerial). I've decided to go for it.
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It states that there is a gratuity payment at the end of the contract (2 years initially) which is 22%. Would this be 22% of your annual salary, 22% of the 2 years' salary or 22% of your monthly salary?
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Hello russie, typically 'bonus' payments will be based on the annual salary but I am more familiar with non-contract situations. Perhaps you could post the bonus clause in its entirety, we can advise more accurately.
Congratulations and just enjoy the different experience that you will get in the two years and go from there. If you don't like it, you will still gain so much from the international experience.
Cheers.
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Madtown you are so right! Anyone who says that the air here is not effecting them are seriously kidding themselves. The air in HK is putrid, quite horrific. It has got worse over the years - just look outside today. HK is a great city but for anyone who values their own health or the health of their children forget it! No amount of money is worth it. The air quality around HK is the same and today I can hardly see the see from my Southside Apartment it is so smoggy. The government need to take some serious action and for a starter stop the idling engines of the coaches along Beach Road and all other idling vehicles.
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Madtown and swimmers
Are you based in HK?
you say"...the air is terrible, putrid, horrific.......the long term effect is......."
WHY do you stay?
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brightspark, my thoughts exactly!
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FKKC
13 yrs ago
brightspark & rob_378, my thoughts too!!
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russie I am an academic in town here at a major university and dont make that much so make sure you have the details right. if so, then do two things:
1. come work here by all means
2. hire me
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Fixer
13 yrs ago
russie, HK's great and you will enjoy your time here, but sadly HK like everywhere else in the world, has it's share of whingers, many of whom live in denial of their core beliefs and will tell you what a horribly polluted place HK is. You're in education, do the math.
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$92,000, u can give me half and we can sit down each month and compare both of our comfortable lifestyles.
I earn $21,000 per month...with no extras
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The pollution is BAD!!!!! you just need to look across the harbor to figure that one out! Article in SCMP today about how bad the pollution is
look at the WHO index and compare to HK. It's BAD
Many people born and raised here its not so easy to up sticks and leave if you don't have residency in another country or the finances to do so. Just have to put up with the bad pollution which is getting worse year on year.
Some expats/visitors may want to justify it as in this forum but that's not helping they should be lobbying govt and hk people to do something about it. HK great city but the pollution is too bad.
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The pollution is not going to get any better. Just accept it and make your life choices. I take the view that any potential reduction in life expectancy is offset by all the time I have saved not having to wash up / iron / cook / wash the car etc
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True, i think everything have a trade-off and nothing is perfect. Hong Kong is definitely a great city to stay, just when you come here, you have do based on your experience to do something to protect yourself if needed.
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Russie
That sounds high. As someone else said, just be 100% that that is the correct package. It is higher than some of my regional directors get! No wonder my kids school fees are so high!
But otherwise, go for it. You will have a great time in an amazing city, with an ability to hop around asia more easily than getting on a train in the UK. If you turn this down, you will forever wonder whether you did the right thing.
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Tune
13 yrs ago
That sounds about right for a qualified person in education and in the right place. However, the pollution here is a problem and it's only a matter of time before a terminal case goes to court.
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It also depends where you are coming from as to whether you will find the pollution bad or not. I came from Seoul where I had been for quite some time - the best part of a decade. I now live in a high floor on the Eastern most corner of the Island and I find the air here to be absolutely fine. Even in a busy hour or two in Causeway Bay it isn't any different to that of any other major city - if anything it is better as the wind picks up through the buildings and acts as a leaf blower.
Personally I find the air much cleaner than that of Seoul but I am guessing if you are coming from the middle of nowhere in Canada, then yes, I can see why you might think it is polluted here. However, Hong Kong, in a similar way to Seoul, isn't 100% to blame for it's pollution as a large percentage wafts down from China.
Some people are particularly prone to feeling the effects of pollution. Others aren't. I am guessing that a larger portion of people here don't use a car.....the buses run on city gas and there is no manufacturing in HK - it's all imported.
Bottom line.....Hong Kong is no more polluted than any other major metropolis and, if anything, it is cleaner than many.
You could always wear a surgical mask....they help some. Or even a couriers velcro mask thingy - they stop a large amount of pollutants and 'badness'.
And those people that have been here a long time and are complaining 'it isn't the same as it was a week ago'......the airport isn't that far away.
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Edumacate me, please do......
I came from Seoul - all true.
I live on the East side of the Island - all true.
Rush hour in Causeway Bay and rush hour in Seoul - I know which one I would rather be in.
I find the air cleaner than Seoul - all true.
A lot of pollution comes from China - all true as far as I know but am happy to proven wrong. In Seoul a huge amount came from China....hwangsa every spring from the Gobi desert was EVIL.
Manufacturing in HK? Happy to be proven wrong if what we have here contirbutes to the pollution.
Some people are sensitive to pollution - all true - my wife for one, but I am not.
Most people don't use a car in Hong Kong - all true as none of my last job colleagues did and only a small percentage of my new colleagues do.
Most buses run on town gas or something similar...or am I wrong? Taxis too....
Courier masks stop a lot of harmful pollutants.... again - happy to proven wrong.
Please do tell where I am wrong....as said, happy to be told otherwise.
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Hinton,
Here's where you're wrong.
Buses run on diesel. So do all the trucks. And the white mini vans with things dangling from the mirrors. And most of the taxis. And the Public Light buses. Diesel vehicles contribute a lot to the general putrid odour and stench. Try going to a bus station. It's great fun for the drivers to leave their engines on. Air con, maaa.
Those dental masks do nothing at all to protect against particulates. Very few of these masks do. They don't protect against airborne viruses either. What a joke it was to see all those buffoons wearing them during the SARS crisis. They became fashion items. Snoopy gas masks.
Just looking across the harbour you can see how bad the pollution is. Yellow gunk, but that's just the stuff you can see. Most of the bad stuff is invisible to the human eye. Try counting the number of people you meet who are coughing or clearing their throats constantly. Think about what it's doing to the kids. Ask people about the increases in nasal polyps and sinusitis. If you're not showing any symptoms yet, you're lucky. Just wait, it'll get you.
Of course HK is as you say just the victim of China's industrial success. Can't do anything about that, the Americans need their consumer goods. But my advice to anyone considering moving here is 'don't'. Apart from the pollution issue, there are a lot of things about HK which are generally unpleasant if you are used to any sort of civilised existence (which you wouldn't be, coming from Seoul).
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as to taxis: from wikipedia (i know, i know)...
Since 1 August 2001, no more diesel taxis were allowed to be imported into Hong Kong, and from 1 January 2006, driving a diesel taxi on the streets of Hong Kong became illegal. Therefore all taxis in Hong Kong are currently running on LPG. Although LPG-powered vehicles are supposed to be relatively non-polluting, and do indeed reduce roadside pollution, a 2007 study by Polytechnic University indicated that older LPG taxis emitted at least double the amount of carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons compared to diesel. But the government still claimed that properly maintained LPG engines reduce pollution by 50% to 200%.
re minibuses:
Most of the minibus are Toyota Coasters, but a new and environmentally friendly Iveco Daily Green minibus has also been introduced to reduce air pollution. Most of the buses run on Autogas (liquefied petroleum gas or LPG). This type of fuel is not only cheaper, but also reduces emissions. The transport commission is making further efforts to reduce emissions by providing incentives for bus drivers to make the switch to even more efficient electric vehicles.
that said, diesel and marine diesel (bunker fuel) are serious polluters here...there is no doubt that Hong Kong is a seriously polluted city...and saying "but XXX is MUCH more pullluted" does nothing to refute the fact...
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No matter the amount stay away - pollution will likely take 10 years off your life as well as your children - however, on saying that a package of 92K for a 37 year is extremely excessive unless it's the spendthrift ESF that's employing you - mind you with them likely to lose their subvention (government subsidy) that will likely fall, considering that a local head of department (i.e. me) only makes 70K and I'm 15 years your senior with 28 year experience and a native English speaker to boot. Hey but life is unfair as we all know. If you really want the bread, take it and live here but if I had all to do again I wouldn't have come (back) to HK and put up with the polluted crap called air here.
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HongKong is full of teachers from Australia, NewZealand, England......
And all here for a reason.
There must have been some reason you stayed Stefano.?
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Many thanks for all your posts; they have been really helpful. Just to confirm, the salary is accurate. The post title is 'Assistant Principal' and is a non-teaching post (it's not an ESF school). Age isn't everything. Yes you need a minimum of 6 years teaching experience as the job description stated, however, I have friends that became principals in their thirties. They are talented and were picked out of the crowd. Just because an individual has 25 years experience, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are the right person for the job.
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ffs the guy already said its a managerial position...several schools including Kellett are hiring in leadership roles at the mo...the bitter attitude of long serving/suffering teachers is a bit misplaced...
EDIT: russie beat me to it!
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So, for those who are saying to everyone 'stay away' and 'you'll die as soon as you get off the plane from pollution related illnesses', where exactly would you tell these people to go and work?
Where else, honestly, are you going to earn the same coin you do here, especially in the teaching profession which is how this thread was started?
Where else are you honestly going to go where English isn't the native language yet everything that affects you IS done in English?
And if it is 'so bad' here...then, really, why are you still here preaching to others not to come here?
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Hinton obviously has his/her head in the sand or the pollution has got to him/her. Interesting article in today's SCMP - Lack of political will responsible for the pollutied air we breathe in HK.
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all this hot air can't be helping things either.....
if the polution bothers you - shut up and bloody well leave !
if it doesn't - stay and enjoy. (And watch out for those buses - they can knock you down you know)
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Oh I love that boddington ...if the pollution bothers you - shut up and leave.
I agree wholeheartedly
And i dont think JJchan is right - Hinton does NOT have his/her head in the sand.
we all agree HK pollution level needs addressing, but then China has a lot to do with it......and if you're here......stop whining.
Do what you can - take action - lobby for your cause.
But dont stay here and tell other people dont come.........
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http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2011/09/27/the-10-most-air-polluted-cities-in-the-world/
http://society.ezinemark.com/worlds-most-polluted-cities-773683176f74.html
I know it isn't concrete, but of the pages I have looked at thus far, Hong Kong doesn't seem to appear in the top 10 and those are 'other major cities' are they not...?
And no, I am not backtracking at all...if you read carefully I think I said more than once that I am happy to be shown that I am wrong, which, actually, you haven't as yet done with any evidence apart from unsubstantiated comments you wrote.
As before, educate me...I have no problem with that.
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selda
13 yrs ago
i moved to HK in the 1990s, when i was younger and living more dangerously. The pollution wasn't as bad, and i never expected to settle down here...Time goes very quickly when you have a lot of fun, and burn a few brain cells along the way. Before i knew it, i was celebrating my permanent resident status, and then came two-digit anniversaries of the handover, and i was still fooling myself that i could leave hk whenever i wanted. Now i have realised that unless i have enough money to retire, move to some cheap European country like the Albania, and get my own goats and sheep in the mountains, i cannot leave hk. At my age, and with no connections, I cannot get a job in Europe. Not even a poorly paid one. I wish i could, because hk pollution has already taken its toll on some very good friends of mine, and my health is deteriorating because of it. I catch 3-4 colds every year (i was never prone to colds before) my sinuses are permanently blocked, i developed a skin rash that mysteriously disappears after 2 weeks in Europe, here i feel lethargic and have very low energy, but when i am out of hk i feel good and have plenty of energy, which is NOT a coincidence.
If you don't believe that the hk pollution is severe, i suggest you walk to the top of Tai Mo Shan, the tallest mountain in hk, and take a picture. The city is
wrapped in the infamous brown cloud that extends from China to Afghanistan. Above the brown cloud the sky is blue. Google "brown cloud over China" and see what it's made of.
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Fixer
13 yrs ago
Clear blue skies over Sai Kung today, really nice to be out ;-)
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And I quote:
"The rankings, released by the WHO in September, did not include Hong Kong because fine particles with a diameter less than 2.5 microns are not listed as a statutory air pollutant in the city."
and.....
"In the same ranking exercise by the WHO for concentrations or larger particles, Hong Kong came 870 on a list of 1,100 cities."
...but
"Only seven cities of 565 surveyed by the World Health Organisation have a higher level than that found in Central, which also has the greatest concentration of larger particles among more than 1,000 cities."
But then I don't know many people who stand by the side of the road with their classes, in Central, or, for that matter, sleep by the side of the road in Central. In fact, now I think of it, I don't know anyone who has a salary, lives in Central.....and, also, I don't know of schools in Central either, especially ones that pay 90+ for a managerial position.
Admittedly, I cannot argue that HK is polluted, in the same way that many other cities are polluted, but I think I need a bit more evidence, from your good self as it is you that is saying HK is such a bad place to be, other than 'road side readings in Central'.
Selda - for me, wife and son....HK has done exactly the opposite. My wife and son were both constantly sick in Seoul but here, in the time we have been here, junior has been to the doctors maybe twice and wife hasn't been once. I never get sick so not fair to comment about my health. Horses for courses maybe. Come live on the east of the island - nice and clean here!!
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hinton...so basically there are 869 (likely large cities including the world cities we all call to mind) that have BETTER air than Hong Kong...i guess you can stand by your statement that it is 'cleaner than many"...at least the bottom 240 out of the 1100 in the survey....
and the reason HK is even THAT high (if 870th is high...) is because they refuse to count the really damaging crap we are ALL breathing (yes, even in sunny Island East) below 2.5 microns...
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funboddy- still here ?
QED
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i will give you Seoul (and quite a few other largish Korean cities) as being more polluted that HK according to the OAP database used by the WHO (interesting reading btw), but looking at the cities below Hong Kong, there are very few that I would consider world cities in developed countries...the vast majority are from South and SE Asia, Africa and China, hardly places to boast about being cleaner than...
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bodd...i never told the OP NOT to come...in fact if you care to read my post to him, it was one of encouragement...i have no plans to leave either...too much fun here at the moment...but I'm not blind to the hazards.
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The pay offer is good for a teacher here, more than twice what many are earning. I am on my way out of HK after 10yrs; the cost of living has become prohibitive compared to other capital cities even. Prices are rising and general standards are falling. With 2 kids the in so-called subsidised school; fees are about K20+pm, academic results whilst crowed about by the locals are not that good by world standards. The pollution is a real concern for me with young kids, around the coast the sea is largely dead and the water brown, visibility in built up areas can be as low as 200m on some days. The financially driven puppet administration is less effective at dealing with issues and corruption is more and more up obvious. Having said all that you will very likely enjoy a stay here but I wouldn’t advise you make it too long.
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