Posted by
rambo1
13 yrs ago
Please do not give in to ticket touts who are already inflating prices in HK !
Please support our advertisers:
I agree with you it makes me sick the amount of money they are asking for tickets on asiaxpat. I am a great fan but can't afford or would not pay the money they are asking....what a joke....
Please support our advertisers:
It is time that Hong Kong did something to regulate this practise. The rugby 7's every year brings out the worst in touting and Lady Gaga has just been another prime example.
It should be illegal to sell for more than X% (say 10) above face value.
The genuine fans are left with nothing and the greedy "traders" are left with a massive profit.
You often hear that the HKG religion is money - nowhere is it more evident than when a big event comes to town. Truly pathetic human behaviour!
Before you flame me - I know that touting happens everywhere but here in HKG it is taken to another level altogether.
Please support our advertisers:
Cxbaron, I agree entirely with you. Maybe AsiaXpat should not allow these scalpers to use its website to perpetuate this greedy practice. Surely something can be done. Maybe suspend all classified ads selling tickets.
You're right, touting does happen all over the world, but nothing like here.
Please support our advertisers:
&&&
13 yrs ago
HK govt takes a lassaire faire approach from Bss tp Elections. If they cannot stop Inside Trading which is happening "daily" and with more $$$ involved, they won't deal with an irregular concert touting.
Please support our advertisers:
Put pressure on Lady Gaga.
Please support our advertisers:
Fixer
13 yrs ago
Bad situation, unbelievable what they're asking for, laughable if the punters agree to pay. Expat could help condemn this sort of practice by removing sell ads.
Please support our advertisers:
Maybe the point is however that there is a market here for those scalped tickets...we think it's terrible but somehow the market supports it. Sux though.
Please support our advertisers:
I am a huge fan and feel like I cannot afford to see something I REALLY want to because people want to make money, so sad!!!
Please support our advertisers:
Eddy
13 yrs ago
why does Asaixpat let people post add selling tickets ofr 5000 $ ? I thought the site was banning that kind of advertisment ? But do they appear everyday ...
same for the 7s ticket... it's becoming a joke !
Please support our advertisers:
Some offer as many as 34 tickets. It really is a shame. Greedy and selfish society.
Please support our advertisers:
Ed
13 yrs ago
Re: inflated ticket prices... there is not much we can do about this... advertisers can simply post the ads indicating 'best offer'... then when people contact them they can ask whatever price they want...
It is my understanding that most if not all event tickets in HK contain a clause that says the tickets cannot be resold for a higher value... the easiest way (only way?) to stop scalping would be for someone to enforce the terms and conditions on the tickets by taking legal action against someone who is violating those terms.
All it would take is one example - and warnings to others about the repercussions of scalping - to put an end to this very quickly.
Please support our advertisers:
Laws of HK Cap 172 Section 6 (1) (b) seems to cover it, seems that the authorities should be doing something but I recognise the logic of '&&&' above. Apparently it's ok for people to make money in HK by any means, including illegal. It's also surprising that the event organisers, agents and artistes let this happen when they take such strenuous action against pirated downloads of the artiste's music. On the one hand the genuine fan is fined for not paying the royalties on downloaded music, and on the other is left at the mercy of ticket scalpers gouging out the largest possible profit.
Please support our advertisers:
Would it help if someone filed some kind of complaint/charge with police? Get the wheels moving?
If nobody complaints officially, ppl happily buy overpriced tickets, nothing will change.
Please support our advertisers:
Im a huge fan of gaga, but the scalpers are asking too much for us, i think that we should wait, until the tickets decrease, and actually, they have too many tickets i dont think that they can buy it all, even thou, for a show that is around 2 hours we will lose like xxxx omg... -.-''
Please support our advertisers:
Ed
13 yrs ago
The police will not do anything... this is a civil matter... breach of contract related to the terms and conditions on the tickets... I believe the only party that can do anything is the event organizer...
Please support our advertisers:
The tickets were impossible to get but I think that now she's doing three nights we are all going to see that the average price of these tickets will come down. The first day they went on sale there were reports in the media that tickets were selling for $30,000 each (ridiculous!) and now I am seeing them in the Classifieds at double face value. My bet is that you'll start seeing them at a small mark up closer the time. Perhaps if they'd announced the three days up front initially there never would have been this circus.
Please support our advertisers:
Ed, but these are not paid customers, are they? So, I believe AsiaXpat can simply make it a policy: no scalping - no post of such nature - whether 7s or Gaga or whatever. Just like you would not allow anything offensive.
If one honestly buys tickets and then cannot attend the concert, or some ppl from the party can't, I'm sure they can sell it through friends/colleagues etc.
Please support our advertisers:
Or, another option is to declare clearly that you don't support it, but cannot remove the ads. AND do a little research for us - post a way for us to contact the event organizer and/or steps on how to file a complaint of some kinds, eg Here are a few things you can do, folks.....
I would not mind writing a letter somewhere, as a matter of fact I've sent an email already to info@livenation.asia - but this is just customer service, so I don't think it will get anywhere.
Please support our advertisers:
ltse
13 yrs ago
who the hell is Lady Gaga anyway? why the hell is she even famous? why anyone would line up for up to 3 days for an underrated artist is beyond me.
Please support our advertisers:
Ed
13 yrs ago
As I have indicated there is no way we can stop scalping. If we don't allow the publishing of the ticket prices, vendors will simply post 'best offer'... then when you contact them they can ask whatever they want...
The only way to stop scalping is for someone to take legal action as scalping is a breach of contract
I am not sure who the correct person is to contact on this.... perhaps you can try calling the promoter or HK Ticketing.
Please support our advertisers:
Ed, that is not true, surely; you can stop some of the scalping by simply not allowing any of the ads in. You are allowing the scalpers to advertise on your site. As it's free advertising, you're not going to lose any money by not allowing them to advertise. So why not try it.
Please support our advertisers:
Why does everyone get so upset about scalping anyway. I don't see any problem with what they are doing.
Its not like anyone is stealing anything or forcing anyone to do anything. Its the market forces of supply and demamnd that we so love in action.
If someone is prepared to pay HK$10K or whatever for Lady Gaga tickets then let them do so - they should have made them more expensive to start wiht and that would cut out the scalpers.
Please support our advertisers:
Welcome to a market economy, pretty basic Economics if you ask me.
The only way to stop this if either tickets become registered to individuals (and aren't for re-sale) or the organizers are forced to limit the number they can sell to any one person.
Please support our advertisers:
I agree with Alan partridge.
Nobody is preventing kids from getting them. Kids can still get them, if they want to pay for what the market price is or they go line up a day for them. It is just a money issue. Its not like its millionares buying up all the tickets and selling them. Most people who do this is trying to make extra money. I Honestly think an open system letting the market decide the price is the best, rather then always have the government tell me what i should buy for or what it is worth. The market should do that, not the government. This is called freedom of the market and this is why HK is great.
Please support our advertisers:
castingasparagii - I don't see how I am wrong. The scalpers don't prevent anyone from seeing the artist, they just end up paying more. That's life..
The scalpers identified a scarce resource, got there quicker than everyone else and purchased the tickets. Now they are reselling it at the market value. Fair play to them, they are just trying to make money like everyone else in life.
'The fans' get all upset about this and take it personally because its a musical artist (or sport if you look at 7s) but its the same as anything, they are hardly commiting the word's most heinous crime are they? So what if you miss a convernt if you can't affors the inflated prices, noone going to die.
Please support our advertisers:
The 'professional queue rs' were already camped out in front of H&M this afternoon to get the new Marni collection on sale tomorrow at 8 am.
Seems to be a full time job in HK these days!
Please support our advertisers:
More tickets will go on sale for a 4th and final date tomorrow at 10am on the HK ticketing website only. That puts everyone with access to the internet on a level playing field. On a side note, wouldn't you feel a bit stupid if you'd paid 30K for a ticket now?!
Please support our advertisers:
Someone above says "This is called freedom of the market and this is why HK is great."
Might be true if you are a millionarie. Too much freedom is too much freedom. That's why everything is overpriced here. Think flats - some snotty mainlander bilionaire decides to spend his pocket money for a flat here and my landlord (all of them as a matter of fact) are immediately on my back and raising the rental costs as well...no matter that nothing in the flat was updated/renovated....
I agree there are many who just want to make extra money, but if these people are in such need how can they afford to buy so many tickets - presumably in cash? Or how come they can hold a credit card??? Those who just want to make a little extra cash might buy those 8 tickets but not 34. These are organized groups, and that should be illegal.
The new show might help to bring the cost down. I would have a good laugh if the scalpers had to sell under the face value.
In any case I do not intend to buy from them. I'll try my luck tomorrow online, and that's it. Not that crazy...
Please support our advertisers:
The majority aren't organized groups at all - lots of indivudual sellers who realise they can make a fast dollar from people stupid enough to pay the vastly inflated prices. And you don't have to be rich to buy the tickets - just access to HK$2,000 or so - more oten than not that's on credit too - so there is a risk for the seller too.
I'll be honest, many years ago I sold tickets on ebay to pay myself out of a massvie hole of debt I'd put myself into to get through university. I'd buy up to 30 to 40 tickes to a sold out event - you can usually buy 8 per credit card so its easy to to get hold of multiples of that number from different ticketing agencies through different credit cards. There are also plenty of tricks to beat the crowd and get to the front of the line. e.g its often worth paying to joing an artists's fan club a month or so before the tickets are released as your often given priority (profit will cover this).
Do I feel bad that I did this - not at all, it doesnt harm anyone. Even if its organized groups so what! They made the effort to get organized and spotted an opportunity.
Yes its frustrating if you wanted to see an event, but its business and these people arent harmng anyone. Everyone has the choice too...nobody is forced to make a purchase above face value. Its the buyers driving the price up.
Please support our advertisers:
I guess it's pointless trying to make anyone feel guilty, right? If there is no shame, no integrity, things will never change.
Please support our advertisers:
Ed
13 yrs ago
Might I suggest that guilt is not the issue... rather consequences are... and if there are no consequences to ticket scalping, then it will continue...
Since scalpers violate the T&C of the tickets... they are in breach of contract...
However at the end of the day, even if the ticket vendor were to sue for breach what are their damages? Perhaps the difference between the valid sale price and the scalped price... lot of hassle for minimal upside...
Please support our advertisers:
Ed - your probably right.
There are no consequences because its in nobody's interest to do anything about it. No real upside, the status quo works fine.
Please support our advertisers:
castingasparagii - calling it nasty and mean is an over exaggeration, and to compare it to child slavery and human trafficking is just laughable. Maybe if you said it was unfair we could have a sensible conversation. That's the problem - people get all pi***ed off because they miss a concert and blow it totally out of proportion.
Yes maybe some children miss the opportunity to see Lady Gaga because they can't afford the inflated prices but I fail to see how this is a big problem or what the dire consequences of this are - perhaps you can fill me in? They will have forgotton all about it in a week or two.
They are missing a music concert not falling victim to human trafficking, child slavery of killers for hire.
As the post above highlights this sort of thing happens everywhere in life. I paid tax on every transaction as well as addittion income tax for my old e-business, so was doing nothing wrong.
Please support our advertisers:
is the latest show sold out yet?
Please support our advertisers:
Someone above says "This is called freedom of the market and this is why HK is great."
"Might be true if you are a millionarie. Too much freedom is too much freedom. That's why everything is overpriced here. Think flats - some snotty mainlander bilionaire decides to spend his pocket money for a flat here and my landlord (all of them as a matter of fact) are immediately on my back and raising the rental costs as well...no matter that nothing in the flat was updated/renovated...."
I said This is called freedom of the market and this is why HK is great.
So all of a sudden its millionaires that are ruining the city. Someone now is too free?
Lets be realistic, how an average person lives and a millionaire or even billionaire is the same in Hong Kong, except they got nicer stuff. They get to drive a nice car to work, we get to take a nice bus to work...we both still do not have to walk. We both live in a home, except theres are bigger. So the problem now is there is to much freedom. I think the problem is really people jealous of what other people have rather then being greatful for what they have. We are all lucky for what we have and where we live compared to countries in the 3rd world. You wanna see a real problem, go on youtube and watch Kony 2012. Im sure many of you already have already seen it and realize how stupid our problems are.
Please support our advertisers:
Ed
13 yrs ago
Markets and civil society are based on rule of law can ticket scalping violates this... this is in now way part of a proper functioning free market economy... it is an obvious breach of contract
Please support our advertisers:
the last show is sold out
Please support our advertisers:
there they go again...people are already posting their tickets which were sold today for her final show. How ridiculous is that! If there's a law for touting, resale of tickets more than its face value, then no one will do it and real fans can watch the shows without getting rip off. It's a shame.
Please support our advertisers:
Ed - that all depends on exactly what is on the terms and conditions of each individual ticket. Admitteldy, nowadays most of T&Cs state that secondary trading of tickets isn't allowed, but that hasn't always been the case.
In addittion, my understanding is that violating the conditions of a ticket sale is not actually illegal in itself, however it would allow the issuer to legally refuse to honour the ticket if they can prove it has been the subject of a secondary sale.
It depends on your view as to whether the T&Cs are fair and legal.
If you believe it is wrong then surely this website has a moral obligation to take down all those adverts selling or asking for tickets to various events? I don't understand why they would even have a ticket section as even trading at face value breaks most T&Cs.
The easiest way to avoid this completely would be for the organizers just to auction off all the tickets in the first place.
Or easier still add a security feature to the ticket that means that the buyer must be present when the ticket is used as they do for some football events. The fact that they don't bother doing this tells you how much they are really bothered by the issue.
Please support our advertisers:
Nice idea bunny boiler but I don't see what's to stop the scalpers picking up the cheaper tickets and selling them. Even if its on the day of the event there is always a market for tickets to sold out events.
The only way to stop scalping is through legislation that specifically outlaws it. And even then you have to make the effort to enforce it. It's just too much effort for too little reward. Why would anyone be intertested in trying to get this introduced.
Please support our advertisers:
Unfortunatelly, in my opinion, too often we use this label as an excuse - blame it on "free market" - when it's really just greediness.
Please support our advertisers:
jflooking - You are of course correct but unfortunately greediness is part of the society that we live in, its everywhere you look. Its not as simple as to just labelling all ticket sellers as greedy.
Take this example - Seller A is selling to Buyer A. Seller A is desperately trying to save the money for his first house deposit buy buying 4 extra tickets and selling them on for a profit. Buyer B is a fund manager that owns 9 properties around Hong Kong.
Who is greedy. The seller for buying up extra tickets for his first house purchase or the buyer for buying up 9 properties around HK.
Please support our advertisers:
in hk you are free to be greedy. Do you believe there should be a cap on amount a person is allowed to make on income, what they can buy, where they can travel? Its a dangerous road we travel when we start to control things beyond basic laws. HK is rated as one of the freest economy is the world. Why would someone want to change this? No country or city in the world is perfect, but IMO HK is one of the greatest because of the economic freedom to allow business to grow with little restrictions to stall them.
Please support our advertisers:
Ed
13 yrs ago
I haven't seen the tickets but I assume they have the resale T&C.
If so then this is a contract - and contracts are part of a free market economy... they are part of rule of law.
And you cannot violate a contract on a ticket anymore than any other commerical contract.
For those who disagree, then how do you feel about people who sell knock off Gucci bags?
Shouldn't they be allowed to because this is afterall a free market.
What is the difference between manufacturing and selling fake bags in violation of a trademark license... and reselling Gaga tickets at a price than is higher than that stipulated on the ticket contract?
And no, we will not be removing the ticket listings even though I disagree with scalping... because that will not stop the scalping... only the ticket vendor can stop that.
Please support our advertisers:
It's simple. Flip if you want to. Just do it somewhere else.
No one is saying you can 't sell tickets for above MSRP. No one is saying you can't make a profit.
All they are saying is don't buy a ticket with the sole purpose of re-selling the next day at a huge profit ON THIS SITE. The alternative is to close the ticket selling market alltogether. There are lots and lots of other places you can sell a ticket at any asking price you want to - and if the moderators and owners of this forum deem that they don't want to condone the practice of flipping ON THIER SITE - then either respect those rules or go to another forum.
Appreciation in value of a given piece over time is natural and a good thing. Artificially driving up the price overnight by buying a ticket for the sole reason to resell at a massive profit just isn't cool - HERE. Whether its SEVENS or Lady Gaga tickets.
(This isn't directed towards anyone just making a point).
Please support our advertisers:
Ed - As far as I am aware you are wrong. And that's why companies like eBay, seatwave and other secondary market places for tickets have generally refused to ban the sale of tickets on their websites.
My informatin could be outdated, its a long time since I looked into it, but I haven't seen any attempts to prescute people for trading tickets other than for some football games overseas (in the UK) where its specifically outlawed.
The bags are a different argument altogether. There are specific copyright and IP infringements which are being violated in those circumstances, that's a completely different area of law. It guess it depends whether you belive in IP laws or not. I do. There is also the question of selling inferior goods which aren't as described which makes it much more complex.
I'd argue that there is a massive difference in the two examples that you used to the point where its very difficult to compare the two.
Just playing devils advocate here, but surely you would remove and advert for a Fake Gucci bag if it was posted on this webiste and clearly described as fake?
Please support our advertisers:
Ed
13 yrs ago
Some good points... I have always wondered how people got around the scalping issue re: tickets to major events in other countries...
I would remove the fake Gucci bags if we knew they were fake however if someone wanted to sell a 10k real gucci bag for 20k I would allow that...
If someone were selling fake Gaga tickets and we found out we'd of course remove that... if someone sells tickets asking more than face we will allow that - unless asked not to by the vendor... in that instance I would not allow sellers to publish above face value prices... if they posted the tickets with 'best offer' then we would allow that.
Please support our advertisers:
I think the rules you outlined above are pretty much the standard that everyone follows. Its the best and moth ethical option available.
Even when there are specific laws to outlaw scalpers, there are a plethora of ways you can get around it to profit from the ticket to the sold out event.
Just one example is to sell the ticket as a package with a meal or transport. You can argue that the premium price is for the meal or travel section of the package - you can charge whatever you like for that. In reality its just an excuse to get the premium for the sold out event.
This is just one example, there are TONS of others. That's why its just not worth trying to stop it.
Please support our advertisers:
castingasparagii - As I mentioned earlier this is something I did many years ago, not now. I've missed plenty of events myself due to this, I'm just level headed enough to not let it upset me and sensible enough not to pay ridiculous mark ups.
You said it yourself. Some people may have a problem with scalping but it isn't as bad as some other professions. At least with scalping its all up front and in the open.
I now work for a major international bank and I'd be prouder to say I was a ticket scalper. Without question we rip our banking customers off in ways that a ticket scalper would never get away with.
Please support our advertisers:
bunny boiler - they do that for a number of reasons. Firstly, in case ticket sales for the first one or two shows don't go as well as expected - they can then pull the final shows and save costs. But that was hardly going to happen for this show.
Its also a marketing tool to generate extra interest and make sure the shows sell out. Again, all the hysteria and subsequent scalping of tickets just help to ensure there is more interest and tickets sold - anther reason why the promoters are more than happy for the scalpers to continue.
Please support our advertisers:
DanUK
13 yrs ago
Seeing the tickets advertised at such a high mark up makes me angry too, but i really think AsiaXpat could make one simple policy that would greatly improve all of it's classified listings.
ALL ADS MUST CONTAIN PURCHASE PRICE
It would be very easy to spot scalpers (and maybe disallow it) and all those other annoying ads with no price would also go away.
Please support our advertisers:
I bought 4 tickets from yahoo auction after the second date of officialy selling, paid double the original price. Simply because my friends and I couldn't login the HKTicketing for ages, even we tried 20 mins before the selling time. Unfortunately, we bought them from a young student from auction but we need to go overseas for business trips somehow after. Gees, we now need to sale it and ppls think we are scalpers, because we asking for double price. I think now I better sale it to my colleagues or close friends who can offer a little bid more of the original price, which better than I lost a double in all.
Police can do nothing for the scalpers, I think HKTickeing need to have a sound and integrity system that responsibe for the public, offer anything to anybody who really want to watch/use their functions, but not those scalpers. The point is how to identify they are scalpers, they usually bought ton of tickets and selling with double price. HKTicketing should limit the selling T&C, so that giving some proportion to the real public.
Please support our advertisers:
Has there been reports of fake tickets ? I talked to a seller and he did not have a receipt, would not give me any ID, only first name and no business card , his excuse was no personal info. I did not buy but is there a way of knowing that the tickets a real when you look at them? Heard that there were many rugby 7's tickets that were fake but looked real.
Please support our advertisers:
Russell peter's ticket of 488 on sale in classified ads for 2000!
Please support our advertisers:
< Back to main category
You must be logged in to be able to reply.
Login now
Copy Link
Facebook
Gmail
Mail