Posted by
tempo
13 yrs ago
Hello. I was born in HK but I immigrated to Canada over 30 years ago. I have a Canadian passport, HK ID card and a HK SAR Passport.
I received an invitation for job interview in China. I tried to apply for a Home Return Permit but the officer refused my application because on my HK ID card, there is no Chinese name. (Perhaps she meant no name written in Chinese characters?) She said that China does not allow dual citizenship. As a result, I have to either add a Chinese name (perhaps she meant a name with Chinese characters) on my ID card or visit China using a Canadian passport. In the former case, I have to change the name in other legal documents. It looks complicated.
I tried to apply for a visa using my Canadian passport. This time, the officer said that since I have 3 stars on my HKID card, I have to go to the immigration office to make a declaration. She mentioned about losing the 3 stars first before I could apply for a visa using my Canadian passport.
Anybody knows what is going on? What will happen if I lose 3 stars on my ID card? What benefits and rights will I lose?
I read that if I get into trouble in China, China will not allow the Canadian government to help because by having a Home Return Permit (or perhaps with a HK ID card or Passport), I will be treated as a Chinese citizen by default. Perhaps it is better to go there using a Canadian passport?
Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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tempo
13 yrs ago
I am certain about my nationality. I am just staying in HK temporarily due to an uncontrollable factor.
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Tempo, sounds like you want to have the best of both worlds. Unfortunately for you, the world does not work that way. You can't have the cake and eat it too. Technically, if you tried to use your HKSAR passport to enter the mainland, you would be mispresenting yourself since you are a holder of the Canadian passport. My understanding of the Chinese nationality law. Lawyers out there pls feel free to chime in.
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NuinHK that's not how the world works but only how China works.
China likes playing hardball and will force people to choose between China and anything else. E.g if you can't trade with China if your country doesn't officially recognize Taiwan as being under the control of the communist party. I.e. you can recognize one or the other but not both.
Its the same with passports, officially if you are a canadian citizen you aren't allowed to be 'Chinese', that's your punishment for being a 'traitor'.
It's nothing about having your cake and eating it too, it's about China forcing you to choose which side you stand on when push comes to shove - just like the NAZIs did.
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miffus, are you suggesting China is the only one that does not recognize dual citizenship? Mind you, my country, the good old USA does NOT either. Just because the law is not enforced, it doesn't mean the law is meaningless. I just don't think it is that simple as an issue of ideology.
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tempo
13 yrs ago
Hi Cara,
I checked with several officers today. Adding a Chinese name to the HKID is simple. I just need to get a depot. However, if I encounter problems in China and need help from the Canadian government, I will not be able to do so as I will be considered as a Chinese citizen. Interestingly, when I tried to apply for scholarships from the Chinese government, I was told that even HK is now part of China and that I have a Chinese passport, I am not eligible to apply because I was not born in "mainland".
It seems that on one hand, they treat me as Chinese but on the other hand, they do not offer me full benefits since I was not born in the mainland. They seem to have some strange policies.
I guess I have to choose whose protection I want to seek from in case of troubles. Any experience on that?
An officer told me today that if I renounce the Chinese passport, I will never be able to get it back. As for the 3 stars, I may be able to get them back. However, there is a possibility that I may lose the "A" (the letter after the 3 stars) as I have been away from HK for so many years. He was not sure. He said that it is case by case. He just asked me to think carefully. He mentioned that recently, many non-Chinese would rather give up their own citiznship to get a HK passport. One advantage is that with the HK passport, one can travel to many countries. However, as far as I know, I can do so using the Canadian passport as well. Seems like there is no disadvantage of losing the HK passport. Any idea? He was not sure if I will be charged more (as a foreigner) in case I have an acident and need to go to the hospital in HK.
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What happens if you completely ignore the HKID and Chinese passport?
Go to Macau, and come back in on your Canadian passport as a tourist, then apply for a Chinese visa as normal and don't mention to anyone that you have a HKID.
I wouldn't worry about 'troubles' in HK. The only place you need to worry about is Mainland, and in that case I would definitely want to be entering on anything but a Chinese passport if at all possible - just think, if you are only given the same rights as a mainlander, then you basically have no rights whatsoever, that would be scary as hell for me.
I lived in mainland for 5 years (on an australian passport) and did not have any problems in Chinese hospitals etc. And if there's any problems with the police etc they have to call the 'foreign affairs' police to deal with you. I had one time where 2 Chinese bouncers tried to extort me of about 20k for a bottle of wine and they quickly became violent, I managed to stick a pen through the neck of one of them and luckily the other one suddenly backed off after that. The police arrived but were friends with the owner and said I could be locked up in a group cell for a week or I could pay them 50k cash. The only thing that got me out of that was my foreign passport, if I didn't have that I don't know what would have happened.
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tempo
13 yrs ago
It is a bit strange that although they consider me as a Chinese, they said that I am not eligible to apply for scholarships because I was not born in mainland. I guess people are not treated equally even under the same Chinese nationality. Probably the situation will be worse if I get into trouble. From gaz_hayes's post, sounds like if I go to China, I better give up the HK passport and have 3 stars removed from the ID card.
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Yes, many citizens of other countries, having made their home in HK have taken Chinese citizenship & a HKSAR passport, because you can travel visa free to most places. An added incentive for Americans is they can avoid paying world wide tax to uncle sam.
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i haven't read all the above posts, just the first one
i have 3 stars on my id card, i hv a hksar passport and a european one and i have entered china using a visa on my european passport with no problems
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tempo
13 yrs ago
turtle1: Were you born in HK? On your visa application form to China, did you list other nationality?
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yes i was born in hk, not sure about what was filled in on my visa application as husband's company/travel agent filled in the form for me, i'm guessing they filled it in as european
my son has always travelled to China on his european passport as well (he was born in hk and has hksar passport as well) without any problems either
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Two points raised above, relevant for US expats:
First, the USA does NOT prohibit dual citizenship (see http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html), but naturalized US citizens do have to "renounce" all other citizenships (and hereditary titles of nobility) when taking the oath of citizenship. However, as even the USA wouldn't recognize the making of an oath of citizenship to another country as a way of renouncing US citizenship (it has to be done before a US consular officer), it is hard to see what the significance is of the renunciation in the US oath of citizenship. No other country has to recognize it. In any case, once you have US citizenship, acquiring another nationality is a non-event as far as the USA is concerned.
Which brings me to my second point: Taking another citizenship, if you are a US citizen, does NOT mean you can "avoid" being liable to US taxation on your worldwide income. Might make it easier to evade US taxes (which is a US federal crime), but you can only avoid them if you formally renounce US citizenship--and even then they don't exactly make it easy...
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tempo
13 yrs ago
On my Canadian passport, it states Hong Kong as the birth place. So, when I tried to get a visa to China as a Canadian, the officer immediately asked me to give up either the HK passport (and 3 stars on the HKID) or go to China as a HK passport holder. In the latter case, I heard that I will not be able to seek help from the Canadian Embassy in case of trouble.
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Seems to me that it is the Canadian Embassy that should decide if you can seek help as Canadian. this is not the Chinese's call.
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