Posted by
tioga
13 yrs ago
l have two properties in HKG and one in China wholly paid by me, but they are joint owned; in my elderly father's and my name . We are in the process of changing to my sole ownership but I'd appreciate help deciding which route should be taken.
I was informed by him that it would cost 10K HKD to change title deeds to my name at his solicitors OR 1K HKD for him to modify a will. Which route would be most advised. I feel changing title deeds is probably more suitable, since relationships with sisters is less than healthy. can disputes possibly arise even if the will states that the property is co owned buy l inherit 100% of it?. please give your opinion and aren't those solicitor's prices exorbitant?
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depends on if you trust him enough. Change of title deeds shouldn't cost that much, in UK , its no were near that amount, check other places
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thanks for reply malka, it seems like it is b.i."Joint tenancy"
the main worry is not whether my father will alter his will so I don't rightfully and fully inherit the properties in joint ownership, all of which are wholly paid by me; but with possible disputes with sibilings who are not fully aware of our "joint ownership"
changing title deeds by simply omitting his name, keeping my name on as sole owner.
The cost at 10k does seem on the steep side, esp for a small local new terriotories solicitor firm, no? we had a property in UK and change of title deed, with a completely new sole owner,was a simple cheap process, costing only a fraction. anybody have an idea what change of title deeds here in HKG should cost for 1. omitting a name in co ownership 2. omitting a name in co wonership and adding spouse's name?
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tioga
13 yrs ago
so helpful maika, thanks again.
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tioga
13 yrs ago
l believe it is b.i."Joint tenancy", but the only way of knowing for certain is to arrange an appointment with CLIC's office and take a copy to them right?
if they had an email l could just send them a scanned copy. they only seem electronically contactable via http://www.hkclic.org/en/cgi-clic/fb.cgi ,l thought because they are co owned title deeds with my father, and he passes away, his half ownership of the property will go to all his children, rather than myself, the sole payer of the properties? that only seems logical?
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tioga
13 yrs ago
in one of the shared title deeds the flat is rented out, and in the other, it is solely occupied by myself, spouse and children. my father doesnt live with us, he lives in his own property under his own name. so is it b.i."Joint tenancy" ?
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surely it sound more like b.ii. tenancy in common?
although notsure if the title deed will show who paid what proportion of the property you joint 'own'? perhaps malka or other knowledgeable ppl will know?
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tioga
13 yrs ago
malka, took a look at http://www.landreg.gov.hk/en/services/services_b.htm#fee
Does it tell you the type of title deed it is, eg, tenancy in common / joint tenancy, etc
if it is joint tenancy do you know if it will tell you what % of the property each owner paid?
could l not just make an appointment with the solicitors who we did the transactions and title deeds with? Regarding the website, it seems you really have to know where to click, and we don't. If everyone was as smart and knowledegeable as you there would be less stress, certainly less ignorance, at least when it comes to HK properties
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tioga
13 yrs ago
So if my understanding is correct, l will fully inherit the properties if my father passes away first, but what if l pass away first, from an accident for eg, will my spouse and children be entitled to inherit them? l assume my father will fully inherit. To overcome this won't it be necessary for me to pay the 10K and ensure title deeds are in my and/or spouse's name? will it cost even more if my spouse's name is also added?
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[UPDATE] Please note that fee quotes stated in historic postings may be out-of-date.
There are two types of joint ownership of property in Hong Kong. One is called the "joint tenancy" and the other is called "tenancy-in-common". Joint tenants will have the right of survivorship between them. Therefore on the death of either party, the co-owned property will be vested automatically in the survivor 100%. All you need to do is to register the death certificate of the deceased at the land registry. The co-owned property under joint tenancy does not form part of the estate of the deceased party.
In a situation where holding the co-owned property in tenant-in-common, each co-owner owns a distinct share, usually 50-50 or can be in other proportion if one co-owner passes away, his share in the co-owned property will pass according to his will or intestacy to his successor (i.e. there is no right of survivorship given to the co-tenant).
It is only when you and your father hold the property in the form of tenant-in-common that you may wish to consider changing it to sole ownership joint tenancy, a corporate NEWCO owner or, at the very least, reviewing your two wills.
Weir & Associates
Solicitors & Notaries
16th Floor Tak Shing House
20 Des Voeux Road Central
Central
Hong Kong
Tel : 2526-1767
Fax : 2868-3568
Email : WeirLaw@weirandassociates.com
www.weirandassociates.com/weirlaw
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tioga
13 yrs ago
Even though I made full payment of the properties, I think the money or a good proportion of it might of come out of my father's bank account (me paying him back in full after), to know for sure if its a joint tenancy or tenancy in common, should I go to the solicitors who did the title deeds and transactions and ask them? The serious problem is, is my cantonese is below average, and I am not smart enough to read chinese, so unsure how to ask them what kind of joint ownership it is, they are a cantonese only speaking firm.
Also regarding my last post, do you think the best option is just to bite the bullet and pay 10K to change title deeds?
"if my understanding is correct, l will fully inherit the properties if my father passes away first, but what if l pass away first, from an accident for eg, will my spouse and children be entitled to inherit them? l assume my father will fully inherit. To overcome this won't it be necessary for me to pay the 10K and ensure title deeds are in my and/or spouse's name? will it cost even more if my spouse's name is also added?"
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