Just wanted to let everyone know to take special care, not just when in Wanchai but also in LKF. I have been living in HK for 4 years now and am married with two young kids. Not a huge partygoer... so when I went out for a for a few drinks last Wednesday to LKF and woke up on Thursday evening totally dazed, sick as a dog, remembering almost nothing and the cards in my wallet rearranged it was something of a shock.
From checking my bank accounts I found that 40k had been taken out from two bank cards (maximum limit). Somehow after having had something put into my drink I was convinced into taking out some money from an ATM and had my pin numbers were noted. My wallet then disappeared, different ATM's were used and then it reappeared later.
The 3 trips to the police station and to hospitals have generated a very poor response so far, with the reaction being largely disbelief that there is a drug that exists that can influence your behaviour. Most of the people I spoke to have never heard of Rohypnol or anything like this case.
I believe that I was probably targeted because I had just come from an airport, was in a suit and was carrying a travel bag (making me look like I was on a business trip).
On Sunday I happened to run across this article in SCMP: http://tinyurl.com/bsvxchj which I believe is almost an exact replica of what happened to me, even down to the HSBC banks. I even showed this article to the police and it went a long way to convince them that this is a real issue!
If this does happen to you - go to the police fast, take a local with you, and be tough - dont let them fob you off and tell them there is nothing they can do because you were probably just drunk - they can access CCTV and bank machine cameras if they have the right information. Take as much info as possible with you (visit the bank first and be tough with them too to get the details). Take a local person with you if possible to speak Cantonese because language is very limited in some cases.
After getting the police to open a case, go directly to a Public Hospital - the private ones don't have the right blood and urine tests and local clinics are very limited. It will be a lot of waiting time, but the results can be used by the police and later in court.
Look after yourselves!
Cheers,
Andy
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It would be interesting to hear more details about who you were drinking with(friends or "new" friends) and how you think it may have happened. This may help some of use to know what to look for.
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I understand (but may well be mistaken) that all ATM's in HK are in fact equipped / monitored by CCTV which can be accessed in the event of criminal activity, you may wish to explore this possibility.
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Ed
13 yrs ago
I lost a card years ago that was used by the thief... police said there was are rings of operatives in HK who take the stolen cards and buy stuff with them... the police often get the photos of them but how to you identify them... they seldom catch these people
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Hi mbbcat - that's a good point... if you told the public hospital you believe you have been poisoned then they will probably run the tests. That will also help with the police report, except they might jail you for being a drug taker! (which is why i would go to the police first and tell them you need the hospital.. they have to send you). Hopefully you won't have to wait in line for 90 mins, then wait for the test results for another hour like I did. The doctors at 266 Queens road east are very good, speak excellent English and know what to test for. Amazingly the senior doctor I spoke to said he had never in his life heard of someone having their drink spiked... scary!... On my first visit to the police they told me that there is no need for me to go and have any blood tests, because i there is no way to know whether I chose to take the drugs myself or not... It seems that the perception is everyone foreigner self medicates and that no drugs like this exist! (Unless you go to the Wanchai police station at night - which was my second visit - where the police officers say... "Oh yes, that's extremely common here!" ... Now go and get all of your bank records and come back!)
Hi Beermoney - i was in LKF in Stormies with a buddy at 1am last Wednesday and we were chatting with a couple of people we had just met. He felt sick and went home (not drugged!) and that is pretty much the last thing I remember. I have a vague recollection of 2 black girls (one small and thin, the other tall and fat) and being next to an ATM. I somehow got back home and got to bed (my domestic helper said I arrived back at around 7am!) and fell asleep. I woke up at 4pm for a very quick, dizzy phone call to tell me I missed a meeting. Then woke up again at 8pm and had some food, feeling like hell and totally disoriented. My investigation started on Friday when I googled "rohypnol hong kong" and found this article from a couple of years ago: http://www.marieclaire.com/world-reports/news/hong-kong-date-rape-drug-rohypnol-men
Hi Whitemischief - i have got the police and HSBC finally working together with all the appropriate information. i am looking forward to hear back from them as to what they have seen on the CCTV. My concern is that so many officers and detectives that I spoke to seem to believe that no drugs of this type exist. i will keep you posted on the results!
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Hi Ed,
Interestingly I got home and nothing was missing at all! My watch, wallet, cards, laptop etc... all ok. The only thing was my cards in my wallet were rearranged. Looks like they didn't want anything that was traceable (or didn't like my taste!).
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I am not sure that no such drugs exist, and you mentioned Rohypnol, which I understand is called "roofies" in the States? There was a time when you could buy this in HKG from a pharmacy, it is known as the date rape drug. I used it a couple of times on long haul flights as I cannot sleep even on a flatbed seat in first class, it worked a treat (not sure if I tried to take advantage of myself though).
They are no longer available anywhere but in hospitals now as far as I know. I have heard of people having similar experiences to yours, however usually they just discovered huge credit card bills for drinks.
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Not sure if it is true or not. But I am sure there is something out there:
http://www.conservativerefocus.com/blog5.php/2012/05/14/dangerous-drug-causes-complete-loss-of-free-will-columbia-s-scopolamine-induces-hyper-suggestiveness-youtube
Wikipedia does not seem to substantiate the claim though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopolamine
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Based on the two completely sleepless nights (really awful) that I had on Thursday and Friday I would say Rohypnol was probably involved. I was also quite dizzy and drowsy and had to make frequent trips to the bathroom (no.2). My doctor told me that GHB is also known to be used in some cases, however it metabolizes in 4 hours so is rarely found. Don't know that something as creative as Scopolamine would need to be used.
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From SCMP: (hopefully they don't mind me reposting... its just half the article - great work Simon!)
Revellers' drinks spiked in ATM scam
Police warn bar-goers in Wan Chai to be on guard after a woman is arrested for fleecing dazed man of nearly HK$30,000, having been heavily drugged
Simon Parry
Updated on May 20, 2012
Police are warning revellers in Wan Chai nightspots to be wary of having their drinks spiked after a woman was arrested for allegedly clearing out an expatriate man's bank account using his ATM card.
The 44-year-old Chinese woman was charged with theft after she allegedly repeatedly used a 22-year-old's ATM card while the victim was present, but apparently unaware of what was going on, a police source said.
The victim - who the source said had close to his daily limit of HK$30,000 withdrawn from his account using different ATM machines after he went out drinking in Wan Chai - was found in a dazed state and given a drugs test.
The initial results of the drugs test were inconclusive. The source said further investigations were under way to see whether or not his drinks were spiked before the theft from his bank account in Central about 5am one morning.
The arrest, on March 31, took place as part of a police investigation into long-running but so far unconfirmed reports of men having their bank accounts cleared out after having hypnotic so-called date-rape drugs, such as Rohypnol, slipped into their drinks in Wan Chai bars.
Victims are taken to ATM machines and shoulder-surfed as they make withdrawals, investigators believe. Their cards are then stolen while they are in a daze and used to make multiple withdrawals at different ATMs before being put back in their wallets.
A police spokesman said of the March 31 case: "Multiple lines of inquiry are being pursued. The arrested woman was charged with theft and will appear in Eastern Court at the end of June."
Prostitutes who ply their trade in the bars and streets around Lockhart Road are believed to be slipping so-called date-rape drugs - Rohypnol, gamma hydroxybutyrate, which is known as GHB, or Ambien - into the drinks of already worse-for-wear punters and then emptying their bank accounts.
The drugs leave victims drowsy and easily swayed, making it easy for prostitutes to persuade them to withdraw money from ATM machines. The women take the money when they are out of range of closed-circuit television cameras. Victims usually remember nothing.
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Happened in the past often at Mes Amis in Wanchai, Fat Angelos when it was in TST. Waiters and bar staff in cahoots. NEVER give PIN number to anyone posing as the bank or police on the phone. They slip drug into drink, steal wallet then pretend to put you through to helpful police and bankers on the phone. They may tell you your wallet has been found and is safe at some remote police station like Tuen Mun. In a silly befuddled helpful state, euphoric and relieved that the wallet is found, victim gives PIN number. They keep you under and distracted so the incident straddles midnight, giving them access to another day's credit limits. Sinister banks and overworked police are no help at all. Cards are used at famous jewellers (in cahoots too), foreign exchange offices, every ATM and, to add insult to injury, the two big supermarkets as 'Cash back'. Avoid Wanchai, LKF, stay sober. Mistrust any flattery or unusual interest from new women (or men for that matter).
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selda
13 yrs ago
the spiked-drink theft is very common in Hong Kong, i am surprised the police pretend not to know about it and don't take it seriously.
It happened to two friends of mine, one in Mes Amis, Wanchai and one in LKF.
I too had my first beer of the night spiked by someone who saw me sitting alone at a table in LKF (i was waiting for a friend). It was pretty late, so this person probably assumed that i had already had a few. Actually i was coming straight from the cinema and perfectly sober. Half an hour after drinking that beer i felt really disorientated, i could barely stand, luckily my friend turned up, and seeing me in that state he brought me back to his flat and saved me from what would have been a pretty similar outcome. It took me 12 hours to recover, and had no recollection of getting in a taxi with my friend, who was extremely worried at my slurred speech.
These gangs usually target people alone. Take care, and if your friends leave the bar, you'd better leave too :-)
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if planning big night out, leave all cards at home
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Hi Demolay - thanks for that! I agree about leaving cards at home and will do in future, unfortunately I had just landed from Shanghai, so had everything with me. I had no intention of going for a big night out as I had meetings the next day and all my stuff with me. Also being in LKF I felt a lot safer than Wanchai.
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Selda - did you report this to the police?
AKA... did you spend many hours waiting in a police station to have them tell you that you were probably just drunk and give you many looks of contempt? Where they write selected information down in small notes all across many pieces of blank A4 paper and ask you questions such as "What is your education level?" (as though that has any relevance???) and aim to establish that somehow it was your fault... grrrr... :-) I have huge respect for the police as they have a very tough job to do... but the three visits that I made recently were really very worrying!
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selda
13 yrs ago
no, i didn't report it to the Police because nothing had been stolen from me. Also, at that time i didn't know how to prove to them that i had been drugged. 12 hours later i was fine, and didn't think about going for a urine test.
Both my friends reported it and eventually the bank refunded them after watching CCTV cameras showing somebody shoulder-surfing when they made the first withdrawal. Apparently they were drugged first, persuaded to make a withdrawal, and then their cards were taken by the gang that kept making more withdrawals from ATM's without CCTV.
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selda
13 yrs ago
no, i didn't report it to the Police because nothing had been stolen from me. Also, at that time i didn't know how to prove to them that i had been drugged. 12 hours later i was fine, and didn't think about going for a urine test.
Both my friends reported it and eventually the bank refunded them after watching CCTV footage showing somebody shoulder-surfing when they made the first withdrawal. Apparently they were drugged first, persuaded to make a withdrawal, and then their cards were taken by the gang that kept making more withdrawals from ATM's without CCTV.
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selda
13 yrs ago
no, i didn't report it to the Police because nothing had been stolen from me. Also, at that time i didn't know how to prove to them that i had been drugged. 12 hours later i was fine, and didn't think about going for a urine test.
Both my friends reported it and eventually the bank refunded them after watching CCTV footage showing somebody shoulder-surfing when they made the first withdrawal. Apparently they were drugged first, persuaded to make a withdrawal, and then their cards were taken by the gang that kept making more withdrawals from ATM's without CCTV.
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To be fair to the police, I just think they go through the motions unless they have something that will stand up in court - otherwise they are wasting their time.
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True Loyd - they do have to weed out dodgy reports... but with making it so difficult to open a case I can see why so few people would bother. It was actually only because a friend of mine kept pushing me to report it, that I went in the first place. That and seeing the cases where guys had died. As my friend said "if you don't report it it'll never stop".
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This first started happening in HK about 10 years ago, the police started to take it semi-seriously when a visiting Police officer from Scandinavia here on official business was found dead in his hotel room the night after being taken out in Wan Chai. Last place he was seen was one of the girlie bars on the strip
Some expat cops started doing the rounds of bars in Wan Chai telling the staff to be on the look out for Thai looking ladies holding water bottles, they suspected they had GHB in the bottle instead of water and then when the mark was not paying attention or went to the toilet, they splashed a load in his drink.
This happens in Thailand all the time. When you don't wake up, its just another dead farang who drank too much
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Similar story happened to me a couple of months ago: I’m at LKF, having a few drinks with friends. I was not drinking alcohol that night. Went to the bathroom, ordered a drink on my way there (fruity milkshake kind of thing). When I collected my drink, it was really close to this guy at the bar, he did look dodgy, but I thought nothing of it. Then I took a sip 2 minutes later, and all of a sudden, fainted. Boom, on the floor, in ice-cold sweat! My husband brought me to the hospital right away, where they accused me of drinking too much alcohol and did not really take me seriously.
Horrible experience.
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Thanks mbbcat - Yes that should probably do the trick - public hospital first. They also have a police officer come and watch as they take the blood test (but not the urine sample for some reason!).
BTW - my favorite movie on the topic is "The Hangover"... very funny indeed... except now that I have 6 hours of my life missing, i am slightly concerned that on when police review the CCTV footage they are going to see something similar and wonder where I got the clown costume, custard and the Llama (as opposed to Mike Tyson's tiger) :-)
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Hi Venusmars... really sorry to hear that. Did they take any tests in the end? This sounds bad, but I am really glad I am not the only one who has had this happen... I was beginning to think I was.
BTW - did you have insomnia later? I could not sleep for two nights, kept breaking into sweats, had nightmares and would find myself curled up in awkward positions with my hands covering my chest like I was trying to defend myself. That was really nasty...
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This happened to me in Istanbul on a business trip about 6 years ago! This guy came up to me and befriended me and we hung out all night. I didn't particularly like him, but i was alone and thought maybe I should try letting my guard down a little while in a foreign city for once. At the end of the night he took me to a dodgy bar with hot girls and ran up an incredibly high tab (he was in cohoots with the establishment). When I didn't have the cash, he asked me to go to ATM and I vividly remember not being able to refuse and happily and dreamily handing over 1,000 USD over...a fair amount of money at the time. Of course I didn't report it cause I was on business and didn't have the time or want to deal with the experience. I don't remember if I slept poorly or not, but I definitely remember the surreal experience. Good on you for reporting it, and scary to know that this is becoming commonplace in what used to be our safe city!
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Hey Mclovin - (Superbad - great movie!) Thanks for that. I am sure its all over the world, especially the big cities. From talking further with the police here it doesn't sound like its exactly commonplace in Hong Kong, but obviously with very few people reporting it, its probably far a bigger issue that the statistics show.
It seems that by having by carry-on luggage with me, wearing a suit and having a wedding ring on, I had painted a massive target on my forehead.
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this happened to my ex husband in lkf a few years ago, although they did take his watch aswell as the maximum allowed on his cards for 2 accounts. it appears that he was taken to a cashpoint that didn't have cctv, again he woke in the morning in a strange place and it had a huge impact on him, i hope you at least feel better knowing that you are not alone. It also had a big impact on me so your wife will be feeling it too....
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I know a friend it has happened to 3 times! All in Wan Chai...and many, many years ago, almost a decade! So yeah, roofies have been around in HK for a long time. Surprised that the police acted like they had no idea! Sometimes it shocks me how out of touch the cops are here! That said, not surprised its happening in LKF too nowadays.
My friend, back then, said he had to stop going because the first time he was 8K down, the second 16K and by the third it was 30K. So he was like, damn, if I go get duped one more time, I can't stand to lose 60K! Lol.
Best to keep your hand over your drink at all times. And yes, probably better not to go out to crowded bars, but hey, sometimes that can't be helped, HK is the city that never sleeps...unless you are roofied, of course!
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Do check the Sunday Post today (27th May) page 8 (SCMP) as it has an article about my case.
TFMummy - yes absolutely... it does have a big impact. My wife has been brilliant and really helped me, even got me an interview with Apple Daily to help get the word out. Obviously it is stressful - especially explaining to family members. All in all people have been really supportive, so I have been very lucky in that regard. I am also left with quite a bit of anger at those that did this, so going to do some EFT which will hopefully help sort that out.
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Justin Credible... 3 times??? that really is incredible! The guy is lucky to still be around... its not as though the people that do it know how much is a dose, and how much is an overdose.
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andyclark88 - indeed. You never know what they are using. GHB is definitely an easy one to slip into a drink though, its liquid and when in alcohol you can't really taste much of a difference or notice a difference as its a clear liquid, so I am guessing they must be using something like that because a roofie is a pill that would have to dissolve, wouldn't it...hmmm...but they both have the same capacity to make one feel "more drunk" than you would on just alcohol alone.
Yes, with that friend of mine...LOL, some people have a bit of a slow learning curve! Reality is though, the police may not get to hear too many people reporting of such happenings because there are far too many going unreported out of sheer embarrassment. My friend reported it to the cops after the 3rd time but then he was just accused of being "too drunk" to know better. So yeah, its just one of those things people try to put behind them and avoid mentioning.
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Gucci
13 yrs ago
Hey Andy, sorry to hear about your experience ... have had my wallet stolen in LKF a bunch of times over the years. Once I got "lucky" as a stolen Visa was maxed out by an incredibly stupid woman who starred in several video clips owned by Louis Vuiton, Celine etc. CCTVs n was thankfully caught n jailed. I feel the case was dealt with so well n quickly by police coz Visa filed the complaint after I point blank refused to pay them. Maybe you can get the banks to push the inviestigation?
You say above "I have a vague recollection of 2 black girls (one small and thin, the other tall and fat) and being next to an ATM" Wondering if that led the police to anything?
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read the report in scmp and have to say that the stormies manager is a complete c**t for how he dealt with it. they know they have hookers in the bar and rather than helping his customers, he basically has nothing better in mind to deny any involvement - even though everyone except tourists know better
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Haven't read the article but the staff are mostly in cahoots. A lot of the time the additives come straight from the barmen who spot a lone or vulnerable customer, slip him or her a draft then phone their buddies outside to intercept and follow as the mark leaves.
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Hi Justin,
What I hear is that the thieves crush up the rohypnol (roofie) to turn it into a powder which will rapidly dissolve in a drink. Ambien is also sometimes used.
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Hi Gucci, I have had several trips to the bank now and they tell me "they are working with the police" so hopefully they will get something useful from the ATM cameras. Regarding the description - I was not asked to provide details for a photofit picture - something I guess they don't use here, or not for cases like this. Hopefully the police come up with something anyway!
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Hi Cookie - I actually just think the bar manager was caught off guard by the reporter and gave some poorly thought through answers. I had a beer with him the other night and he said he would definitely be helping me out in investigating this. I really like the bar (its where I met my wife) and having known some of the staff there for several years I am pretty certain its nothing to do with them.
Based on many of the people that I have spoken to it appears that bars that open on to the street are regularly hit. This could mean that the guys that did this hang around outside and drug the drinks that are on the outside rail while the person is not looking. They would then wait for the drug to kick in (20 mins approx) and pick them up on the way down the street. This would mean they would avoid any friends the person had in the bar and be away from the eyes of any staff who might spot them. Its just a theory, but if I were them, its probably how I would do it! ;-)
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This is a good article about another recent case: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/hkedition/2012-05/08/content_15230825.htm
It also says that five or six off duty police officers have been hit and none reported it!
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I'm sorry to hear about your experience Andy. It makes me so sad to find out that this is happening in HK! I've been here for over 6 years and have always always reveled in the fact that HK is so safe compared to big cities like Paris, New York etc. I was always so careful with my drinks in these big cities, but because a little lackadaisical in HK. I was ruffied once in Tonic on Wyndham Street by a big spender who offered me a glass of champagne. 1 glass was all it took. Thankfully I was with friends and on my way home. Felt horrible and disoriented for 2 days before finally recovering. I'm sorry to say it, but the HK police are quite useless in these matters, but in their defense they probably don't have a clue on what to do unless they saw it on CSI. I wonder if the new western police chief who has been cracking down on all the big clubs for drugs has any plans to address this issue? Andy it might be an idea to see if you can get into contact with him directly since to see if can organize a team to tackle this issue before it really starts to snowball.
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Gucci
13 yrs ago
Wondering if these 9 cameras (see link) in tiny LKF are still operational n if so why aren't they being utilized to fulfill their purpose of curtailing crime besides "crowd control" (LOL)?
Methinks we don't expect too much from Hk Police so in return we don't get much It's not as if we have exciting car chases n shootouts in Central captured live on TV on a regular basis to keep them (n us) busy :-P
http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr01-02/english/panels/se/papers/se0409cb2-1444-1e-itemi.pdf
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Hey Johnny - Yup the Finnish police story is crazy, especially given how senior he was. It was quite a few years ago now, but you might think that would mean it would keep the issue on the radar at least. Some sort of task force would be great! Also some sort of standard drug test would be valuable. i will keep pushing. Cheers
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the banks aren't interested. if a card is abused they know exactly where it happened, it's a matter of record. but of course the big jewellery chains, for example, are customers too. the banks obviously daredn't investigate properly, or at all, for fear of upsetting the heavies. they make no attempt to get to the truth, seek justice or cooperate with the police. it's a scandal which borders on complicity and makes a mockery of bank security departments, which are supposedly run by ex cops but probably run by triads.
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In the early hours of the morning last night I went out on a "site visit" for 2 hours with 5 detectives to see if i could remember anything or recognize anyone. We went to LKF, to the ATM's where the money was withdrawn and later to Wanchai. Had shivers as I went to one of the ATM's where I knew i had been before, but it felt like I had dreamt it. Finally got to have a really good chat with the detectives about the crime. Seems there are only around 20 cases of this reported per year, but it is recognized that the vast majority go unreported. Apparently the girls that are involved will also either leave quickly afterwards or keep their heads down for a while. The CCTV footage from the banks really is the best bet, but they have to get a warrant to get hold of it and the bank takes time to release it. Apparently there is very little active CCTV monitoring the streets of HK because of "privacy issues" (Not like the UK then!).
The footage in my case will be available shortly so will hopefully have a better idea then.
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Hi Jlkunsman. I know! I totally love HK and the fact that up until now it has been totally safe. I even left my wallet in the public changing rooms at a beach one time and went back 10 minutes later... still there.
Spiking / Drug related crime really sucks because unless you catch them in the act (preferably on camera) and happen to have a full forensic kit with you, then how are you going to take further action? Even if the hospital finds that you have been drugged there is no direct evidence to say that it was him. And what is really scary is people like that prick, big spender who roofied you have no idea of what is really in that pill and what effect it will have on you.
I am really trying to think of a good solution here... but struggling to come up with one! Anyone got any good suggestions???
BTW - i am in now touch with some quite senior guys in the police now and am really appreciating their follow-up. Will keep you posted on developments.
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I don't drink alcohol at all but when I go to parties and have a soda I take it with me and never let it out of my site. Perhaps we should start taking a more proactive approach and start listing bars and clubs where these things happen. Back in 2008, the first Weekend I arrived in HK, my co-workers took me to Mes Amis in Wanchai where I had my blackberry pickpocketed. I have to staff the staff were really attentive and turned that place upside down to try and find my phone. I didn't find it but appreciated their effort.
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Staff will surely do a great show of looking!
Mes Amis
Fat Angelos
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Just a quick update - CCTV shows a black girl shoulder surfing me, then after a while she comes back to the ATM after changing her clothes and withdraws more case. The next few ATM's also film the same girl. The big question is, where was i while this was happening?
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You may have been in bed at home. There are hand held card readers that can clone your card in few seconds. Once they had your PIN, they cloned the card and got it back to your wallet, and off you went home. Do you have any way of finding out what time you got home. If you have an RFDI card or key ring to open your building front door the system normally logs all transactions which could be checked on the date in question. You could then compare the transaction times. This doesn't help you solve your problem but it would help you fill in some blanks.
Second to this if you have the photo of the girl, try hanging around on the corner of Lockhart rd and Fenwick st 7/11 as it may help you. There are normally some suspicious looking people hanging around there. Normally two girls and one guy who always seems to be very friendly towards drunk people.
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Thanks Beermoney! According to my helper I got home at close to 7am... and the 7 ATM withdrawals were made between 3:10am and 5:10am at 3 different ATM's (CauseWay Bay, Wanchai & Central HSBC main building).
i actually went with 5 detectives around that area last Wednesday night and spotted quite a few suspicious characters, but I couldn't quite remember the faces and the CCTV had not come out by that time. The chief detective told me that the girls will often lie low for a few weeks after committing a crime, so hopefully they will pop up soon. The police now have CCTV from the bar and from my apartment building and will update me on it once they have reviewed it. Cheers.
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Gotta add my tuppence worth. First of all well done on reporting this and going through all the follow up. The 2 situations I know about were not reported.
First one was a few years ago at STORMIES. This was a middle-aged female friend who left the bar feeling woozie and did not realise anything was missing until she got home and had to call her husband down to pay the cab. He cancelled her cards so not too much damage done.
Second case was my 18 year old son in Wanchai. I know teens can have blanks in their nights but he came home and woke me up to say he felt strange and was very worried. Stupidly I did not take him to hospital or report it to the police.
So again Andy thanks on behalf of the rest of us. I will send this link to a load of people as obviously we need to be reminded.
In UK (where this seems more common) the police distribute plastic caps to fit into your bottle if you are drinking from a bottle. Not sure what can be done re glasses other than NEVER leaving your drink unattended.
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I have just heard of an expat that has awoken from a coma after being drugged and robbed after drinking a few drinks in TST EAST at the weekend. Now needs surgery for a blood clot on his brain, he was badly beaten and has little recollection of what happened.
According to the police, this is not that uncommeon in TST East
It seems we do need to be very careful
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And thats why I never venture over to the dark side! TST East, pshhhh!
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Mog77
13 yrs ago
A close friend about 4 years ago had the same thing happend in Wan Chai. He was pretty drunk, had seperated from his friends. Stayed out a bit longer by himself (probably when drugged). He knew he needed to get some cash out for a taxi home so, from that point to the next day he can't remember, but must have has some tag alongs who took him to a non CCTV ATM. He woke up the next morning feeling like crap, suspected something had happened checked accounts $16,000 taken from his account. He talked to the Police several times and to HSBC about it. Nothing happened out of it and HSBC took no responsibility with respect to having non CCTV ATMs to monitor such activity. He was pretty shaken up by it, just moved to HKG was short of cash. We had to lend him $ to pay for his rent until his next pay. Not cool. Main lesson I guess is, go home when your mates do and keep enough cash aside for a taxi home so you don't get ripped at a dodgy ATM machine. I am sure some of the bar staff are in on these scams.
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Thanks Brindle, Christian & Mog - I am hearing new stories every day. The police are aware of this post so will be taking these cases into account.
From all of the stories I have heard so far - the lessons are:
1. Bring out only as much money as you need. Leave cards at home when possible. Keep an extra 100 hidden somewhere for a taxi.
2. Don't leave your drink unattended - or expect your friends to keep a close eye on it.
3. Be extra careful in a bar that opens onto the street, especially if close to the window / opening.
4. Go home when your friends do.
5. If you suspect you were drugged get to a public hospital asap (the private hospitals can't do the tests and don't have a police booth).
6. File a police report asap (with bank records if possible) and don't take no for an answer.
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So sorry to hear what happened to you, Andy. But grateful you went through all the palava associated with reporting it - well done!
Andy - to my knowledge, this has been going on since the late 80's. When my kids were younger - they would hang out in the bars in both Kowloon ad HK. A very good friend of ours was a senior policeman and he warned us and our kids of what was happening at that time.
His advice was - Order your drink and keep it in your hand. If you need the loo - finish it or throw it away when you come back. Never take food or drink from anyone other than your friends and if any of you feel 'unusual' 'strange' get to a public hospital immediately. I have heard of this happening to a few people over the years - the last being two B.Airways air hostesses.... they were drugged in Kowloon. I really hope the police get these women and make an example of them. Glad you made a good recovery. I've been robbed a couple of times but, thankfully, never drugged. Good Luck with the investigation - and the warning - I shall be circulating it among friends. Nothing like a recent case to keep you on your toes.
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Happened to me as well as friends, lost alot of money. Filed police report but they only wanted to get it off their books asap. Bloke beside me lost $80,000 same night as me , was his second night in town. Bar staff are in on it . Take a "night out wallet " only . Good luck !
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Thanks Septicfrog and Womble... seems there are so many cases, and probably hundreds more that are unreported.
I just went to the police HQ today to take samples of my hair for government lab testing. Great that the police have followed-up to do this, unfortunately it does take around 4 weeks to get the test results, but they will be able to be used in court. Of course now they have to catch them!
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Gucci
13 yrs ago
Hey Andy, good to see the police seem to be making an effort in your case tho not sure about the wisdom of posting details of the investigation on a public forum ... I'm quite sure the perpetrators are aware of this thread n will definitely lie low possibly hampering quick/any resolution???
Earlier I was pretty sympathetic but a swinging single guy friend of mine who's been in HK sometime as you have quickly changed my mind :-P He raised some valid points like: why does a married guy prefer to hang out in LKF after returning from a trip rather than tuck in his kids, why was he roofied but not his friend, if he was roofied after his friend left then why'd he stay round long enough to be spotted, roofied n time for it to take effect, LKF is dead as a doornail that late on Weds so not too easy for a stranger to slip sth into an innocent guys drink, you were possibly chatting these girls up n one distracted u while the other mickeyed u ... ?
We've all been pretty generous with our sympathy n advice above but my friend did set me wondering if some people ask for it ... most things in life are based on the simple principle of demand and supply LOL
Hope LKF becomes a safer place coz of this investigation as I live nearby n often walk up on my way home tho I almost never hang out there coz it's fast becoming as sleazy n tired as Wanchai, ok for tourists n newbies :-P Plenty of decent places are on Wyndham, top hotels n commercial buildings like IFC, Princes Building, etc. Best!
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Gucci - yup, I certainly should have been at home. Obviously this is a good "wake up"call for me to get my priorities straight. Why I stayed out that night, I am not sure, talking to new "friends"?, having too much fun? No idea, like much of the night its quite hazy. I don't know if that was a special wednesday night, but it was still busy at that time. Cheers.
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Gucci, your point is noted. However. regardless why anyone is in LKF on any given night, or whether Andy should have gone home instead of meeting his friend for a drink, no one deserves to be drugged and robbed, so there's no point in being judgmental here. THis could have happened to anyone and well done to Andy for going public and warning others about this. We've all done things which with the benefit of hindsight have lived to regret, so don't give him a hard time.
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Shoe Girl is spot on. Advise your 'friend' not to be such a goody 2 shoes. He who is without sin..
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I'm just getting a little suspicious about all this.
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coty
13 yrs ago
Not sure if Wyndham is any more decent. I always see a few hooker kind of women sitting at Tonic and Rayne and Eivissa. They might even be working with the bouncers.
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Similar thing happened to me a few months ago in Shanghai, even though I've been in China many years, fluent in the language, and always on the lookout for scams.
Had one drink and a half at Mint (standing at the bar and chatting with two girls) and then my memory is blank until I wake up in bed at 7pm the next day with a very foggy mind, many condoms on the floor (all strangely clean and empty) and nothing stolen except cash. Looking for further clues to what happened, I found my wallet with cards in a funny order, an ATM slip, a 7-11 receipt, and a few small bills.
Doing my detective work, I found out I came back with 2 girls carrying me and they stayed about 1hr in my flat and went through my drawers. The security guard thought I was happily bringing prostitutes (which i've never done for many reasons). The 7-11 girl said I was with 2 old and VERY UGLY girls and bought things for them (I suspect I may have been passed to a second team as the girls at the bar were not old and ugly). Found the ATM I went to and had no memory of ever going to that bank (and yet could type in my PIN code -what an amazing drug). Luckily, my credit card had already been cancelled.
As I felt dizzy and brain fogged for 3 more days, I decided to return to HK and go to a trustworthy private hospital where I got a full suite of tests and a brain MRI. Interestingly, the doctor said he had seen a patient with a very similar story that also took place in Shanghai. Unfortunately, the blood tests didn't check for rohypnol and in any case it was probably already impossible to detect after a few days.
Whatever this drug is, it's quite amazing. How would I, who hates being harassed by prostitutes and beggars in Shanghai, go to the ATM and give thousands to ugly prostitutes? How would I, who is so careful about not bringing strangers home, suddenly bring home 2 old ugly prostitutes? Who knows, maybe all this happened under threats which I do not remember as well.
Clearly, these girls are part of a well disciplined organization that runs a very profitable business. Much like in a date-rape under these drugs, the setup results in a victim that is confused and lacks evidence to prove a crime. As I've reported 3 previous crimes in Shanghai to no avail, I realized that seeing the police was not only useless, but could cause me trouble with other things, so I decided not to go. Besides, as a taxi driver told me, if you go see the police, they'll accuse you of hiring prostitutes.
So be careful. A foreigner alone at the bar is an easy target. Keep your drink in your hand and stay with your friends.
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Steven, sounds like a carbon copy of what happened to me. It is actually a very smart crime... how is it possible that we don't remember going to the ATM and typing in our pins? and what a great way to stop people going to the police to report it... and to stop people remembering what the criminals looked like!
There are not that many black, working girls in HK and to be quite honest they scare me, so what on earth I was doing with what seems to be 3 of them, I have no idea.
It makes sense that they work in teams... one team to do the drugging and one to do the ATM run and to take you somewhere - which would also be perfect for escaping from police investigation... You might even remember the one/s you were talking to before blacking out, then another camera might capture the others, but they wouldn't match... so the police couldn't follow-up.
I guess it must be a pretty desperate life as an old & ugly prostitute, so this kind of crime could well make sense to them. I don't think there is much in the way of re-training programs for that demographic.
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I've seen those black girls in LKF before carrying an expat down the street, he was so smashed he couldn't walk, your eyes don't roll back up into your sockets when you're drunk, he was clearly drugged. Seen them twice in the past year doing the exact same thing both times with different expats. Will call the police if I see them again.
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I've seen those black girls in LKF before carrying an expat down the street, he was so smashed he couldn't walk, your eyes don't roll back up into your sockets when you're drunk, he was clearly drugged. Seen them twice in the past year doing the exact same thing both times with different expats. Will call the police if I see them again. I've had my drink spiked before too. Had my first beer of the night in Volar many many years ago, about 15 mins later the room started spinning and I figured straight away I must've been drugged. I hauled a** out of there as fast as i could, jumped in a cab, gave the drive $100, told him my home address and that's all I remember. I woke up the next day late in the afternoon passed out on my living room floor. All that from half a beer...
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Gucci
13 yrs ago
@ shoe girl & demolay:
When playing the devil's advocate up there by citing my buddy I did wonder (tongue-in-cheek) how many raw nerves/guilty consciences I'd set off n prompt indignant replies. Both of you were pretty quick LOL
@demolay, just to be clear, are you opining that all the married dads who go home to their families are goody-two-shoes and should instead party in LKF sans their wives?
While I don't normally poke fun at strangers, (well ... ;-P) a public forum is just that, one invites both negative and positive points of view. Sue me if I likewise believe husbands/dads should be held up to a higher standard than singles.
@ Andy: was kinda hoping for an indignant reply too but you took all the fun out of it with your great response LOL
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Great to hear about the sightings Carbonado. Definitely call the police if you see them again - and if you can, perhaps taking a sneaky photo would also be good. Police can then match it to the ones they have. Cheers!
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Shoegirl & Demolay - Thanks for the support!!! :-)
Gucci - thanks for the test!!!
Of course now if any guy does go out and spends a ton of cash on hookers, drugs and booze, they will of course have a decent cover story! (although faking the ATM withdrawals and CCTV footage might be tricky!).
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Gucci
13 yrs ago
Hey Andy, might be a good idea to post the direct hotline of the investigating team (to avoid language probs n Chinese Walls I'm sure the police have in place). Many are now aware of this issue n live or party in LKF may see/hear sth helpful they could pass on. (Though I'm kinda sure those girls r long gone to another Asian city where drunk xpats looking for hookers grow on trees LOL
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Gucci - 'opining' for the fjörds. No, but I don't think being a good dad or not has much to do with going out to bars occasionally and this thread is not about that issue anyway. Internet moralisers should check that all is ok in their own departments before they hurl anonymous stones of judgment at strangers. I personally can't stand sanctimonious internet bleaters like 'your friend'. This thread is about organised criminal poisoning and theft. Let the victims infer their own moral lessons. Hopefully this thread has served as a warning and an education and I for one hope that the triads et al who are doing this will be brought to justice. Never happen though.
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Gucci
13 yrs ago
@ demolay: thou doth protest too much (guilty conscience perhaps as the critique wasn't even directed at u!) Does make one wonder if u r the alter ego (look up the dictionary) of Andy Hmmmm
FYI "opining" = to express an opinion
Does "demo-lay" mean demonstrating how to get laid in keeping with yr strongly expressed life philosophy?
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If you have any information on this case or any similar drugging / robbing cases in Hong Kong please talk to the lead detective based in Wanchai - Mandy Wu. Her number is 3660 7558 and her e-mail is ip-sip-dit-8-wchdist@police.gov.hk
Thanks! (Good reminder Gucci!)
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Thanks Gucci. That post almost says as much about your intellect as does your 'handle'.
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I must say this is an ingenious crime. Imagine how many poor blokes get drugged and robbed and than wake up simply feeling they "blacked out" from too much drinking and they made stupid decisions. And even those who think they may have been drugged, most will do nothing about it because it is so difficult to prove.
The only way to stop this problem would be for the HK police to be proactive and set up "sting" operations. Get people in undercover both as employees at these bars and as patrons (who act vulnerable/drunk). But I can't see the Hong Kong police actually doing this......
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Just read this chain. Gucci, you have become unnecessarrily provocative and are now coming across as a bit of a dimwit trying to pass himself off as someone who is educated. Stop being an arse.
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Just thought I would post a quick update. So far the police have not been able to find the suspect and the hair testing has been inconclusive. I have written to the bank many times and so far there has been no movement forward towards reimbursement so I will file a complaint with the HKMA and take action through the small claims court.
I've also come across quite a few other cases in HK and also Shanghai and Beijing - - so do be careful out there!
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I'm not a lawyer but I doubt you will be able to get any of your cash back. What has the banks done wrong?
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What a pity.....I wish you could get your cash back.
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Yes Loyd - definitely no one at the bank is to blame. My argument is very much based on "fairness". Should the victim cover 100% of the loss? or should the bank have insurance against criminal activity? Especially when the police are now actively looking for the suspect based on CCTV footage from the bank. In the UK these cases are normally settle one by one, by ombudsman and victims often get their money back as long as they "take reasonable measures" to protect their pin number (don't write it down on a piece of paper they keep in their wallet). If this had been a knife-point or gun-point robbery I would get reimbursed straight away - as drugging is not well known as a robbery technique in HK yet, this is not the case.
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Ya I heard of this same thing happening in Shanghai. It's usually a dirty slumbucket in a mini skirt to blame
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Now i don't know if I have been drugged or whether i drank too much however it all appears to point towards the former.
A friend and I went for a Sunday roast at Delaneys in Wanchai a few months ago around 3pm in the afternoon. We then moved on to one of the Sunday disco's frequented by DH's. Anyway we had a few drinks in there and move on to Amazonia around 830pm. Neither of us can remember much after that however fortunately we both made it home possessions in tact and no loss of cash.
Despite this we also both woke up on our respective couches fully clothed at 7am the following morning and both had to call into work sick. Now we can both handle our drink and have been out many times and consumed more alcohol than we did that day so for us both to be in the same pickle is a bit strange.
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Hey Treborz, while it could have been food poisoning or fake alcohol, I'm sure with Ambien and Rohypnol being so cheap there are a few people out there who will be dropping it in drinks just to see if they can snag a victim. It was probably a good thing you were with your buddy. Stay safe!
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These drugs do exist. And if you read the news, you will see it every so often and sometimes they use it to rape girl with it as well. Since you will do what you have been told and the next day you will remember nothing.
Rule of thumb, go to places that is reputable and avoid people buying you drinks or leave your drink unattended ...
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