Right of Abode vs Dependant visa Rejected

Hi,

This situation of mine may sound complicated but still I'll try to go into detail and expound on every issues.


First, I am 26 years old born in Hong Kong. My Mother is a Filipina domestic helper who worked in Hong Kong for 33 years as Domestic helper. My Dad as well is a Filipino domestic helper but currently he is residing now in the Philippines and retired working as a Domestic helper in Hong Kong.


I studied in Hong Kong until kindergarden at Happy Valley ( Foundation School). I'm not pretty sure if this school is still open or if I mentioned the name of the school right, since that was in ages and I'm still a kid back then.


What brings this Issue to complicated is that my visa back then when I was born is associated to my mothers visa. Which means that, her being a domestic helper would have a visa as a domestic helper visa. So everytime my mother renew her working visa I would also renew my visa.


After 6 years old my parents send me back to Philippines due to financial constraints, time management issues, and family marriage issues. So I studied in the Philippines up until I got my University Degree and Masters Degree.


Back then, when I was 7 years old. I visited Hong Kong every year to renew my visa every summer. Up until the age of 15 years old. I was issued a Hong Kong Identity card when I was 11 years old which states on the back of the card that I should renew my visa when I reached 16 years old but unfortunately I wasn't able to go back to Hong Kong when I was 16 because I was starting my Accounting Degree in the University which makes my schedules tight.


After Graduataion I went back to Hong Kong, I was 20 years old back then. Me and my mother visited the immigration department to apply for Right of Abode status, which I would be the primary applicant to apply for ROA not my mother. So, after sending our application. We got a letter response for an interview after 2 weeks. Me and my mother attended the interview. This may sound weird but the questions ask during our interview we're how much is my mothers salary ?, are you sending money to the philippines?, and what are your plans after working in Hong kong?, etc. Those questions we're all directed to my mother.


After a few days we got a notification from the Immigration Department that our application was denied. This was the most horrifying and saddest letter I received my whole life. Tears from my mother and me when we had red that letter. I was expecting to work in Hong Kong to make a fortune for my Mother and Father but luck didn't come our way.


However, I red the letter again and noticed that on the bottom part there is a part that say's "I can submit an appeal to review my claim" . By this I did not lose hope. I furnish a letter and submitted it to the Registration of Persons in Wanchai. At first I was hesitant to submit my letter. I ask my Mother that we need to seek a solicitor or an expert who can guide us to submit our claim. So upon searching the web and newspaper I came up with "LITTLEWOODS, Solicitors". I ask my mother if we can seek for an advise and help with LITTLEWOODS, Solicitors. I was shattered in tears because I see my mother cry. She told me that we can't afford the professional fee's of their services. But I am not sure yet how much they charge. So I forced my mom to go to Mongkok and visit the said solicitors office and Upon speaking to Mr. Littlewoods, he just told us we can submit the letter. Probably I guess due to our race, ethnicity and financial status, etc. We haven't have any relevant advise from him. Well, I am not bad mouthing anyone in any form this is only my perception.


So I did submitted the letter to "Registrations of Persons" in Wanchai, this is for my appeal.


Since I was on a visit visa I only have 14 days to stay in Hong Kong, Upon submitting the letter of appeal I extended my visa to the Immigration Department and show the letter of appeal they gave me 1 month visa. Every month I went back to the immigration department and extend my visa up until 1 and half year.


Its really hard to stay in Hong Kong without any source of income or any job. I can still remember the days when I was sleeping in

Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre beside the sea at Wanchai because I can't sleep at my mothers place because her employer probably will terminate her or get mad.


Moreover, I was forced to do illegal things in Hong Kong just to survived for food and shelter. I was crying day by day ,I wish my visa was approved so I can work legally in Hong Kong and earn for my Mother and Father.


After 1 and half year, We received a letter that my appeal is set for hearing. So I attended the hearing WITHOUT any solicitor or legal representation from any lawyer in Hong Kong. The lawyer representing the Immigration department ask me why I wasnt able to come back to Hong Kong when I was 16 years old to renew my visa because that would be the day that I would have my ROA issued. I told them that I was pursuing my university degree and I am unable to extend my visa. Unfortunately the decision was rejected and They informed me If so I can submit another appeal.


So I have only 1 month to stay in Hong Kong because the decision was already granted. It is sad to say I loosed hope.


After, the immigration department informed me that I need to depart Hong Kong since decision has been granted.


Currently I am in Philippines and still hoping that there is some way that I can fixed and still hope that I will still be granted Right of Abode status in Hong kong or a dependant visa to my mother which she is still working in Hong Kong.


I am glad that I found Asiaxpat to voice my concern.

I would really appreciate it if you can give me any advise or any other opinion to help me.


Thank You in advance.

maybe i am missing the point but why would you think that any appeal will be successful? because you weren't able to come to HK when you were 16 to get the ROA?


in my mind there are clear stipulated rules and you know that you didn't follow them, so - while i might personally disagree on how the law is formulated on domestic helpers - i can't follow your thought on why you should be allowed to stay in hong kong.

Yes , that is right. My appeal is based on the grounds that;

*Every year I came to Hong Kong to extend my visa.

*That took us 15 years, which every year I came to Hong Kong just to extend it every summe vacation.

* I wasn't able to get my ROA when I turned 16 years old because I was pursuing my University degree. Supposedly that would be the last extension that I would get from the Immigration Department.


Thank You for your response Cookie09

You've argued your case and you lost. Why would the government change its mind? Nothing changed in your circumstances so the decision will remain the same however many times you appeal. As Cookie mentioned, it is entirely in the government's discretion to grant your request, unfortunately for you, it was not.

Hello,

Thank you for your responses. I can see different point of views and opinions.

To Jim Fit. Here in Philippines It is normal to start your University Degree at the age of 16 or 17 as long as you meet all the pre-requisite requirements of the Degree you want to pursue i.e (Entrance exam, High-school Diploma, Interview, and Good Scholastic grades. If you are unable to meet some requirements then you will be transferred or given an option to pursue another degree. Depending on your qualification.


Moreover, in Philippines here are the following pre-requisites before pursuing a University Degree:

*Need to finish Grade 1- Grade 6 (approximately six years)

*Need to finish Secondary Degree/ 1st Year High School- 4th Year High School

(approximately 4 years)

* University Degree (approximately 5 years depending on the Degree that you are pursuing for instance some Universities here Offer Engineering and accounting courses for 5 years.

Have you approah the Legal Aid Dept in HK for help?

As you are 26 and were born in HK, you may claim that you should be the "person who was a permanent residents of Hong Kong before 1 July 1997". I am not clear why you didn't claim ROA before and your visa is associated to my mothers visa.


According to paragraph 2(a) to (f) of Schedule 1 to the Immigration Ordinance, which came into operation on 1 July 1997, you are a permanent resident of, and can enjoy the right of abode in the HKSAR if you are "A person not of Chinese nationality who has entered Hong Kong with a valid travel document, has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years and has taken Hong Kong as his or her place of permanent residence before or after the establishment of the HKSAR".


The problem is that your must make it clear that you "has taken Hong Kong as your place of permanent residence" (i.e. you have no connection in Philippinesare, e.g. sending money to the philippines, and your should confirm to Immigrtaion Dept that your plans of PERMANENT RESIDENCE after working in Hong kong).

Hi Cobo,

Thank you for your response. Unforunately I wasn't able to approach the Legal Aid Department in Hong Kong. I was only focused in looking for a solicitor who can help us back then but as I can see there are no free lawyers or Pro bono lawyers who are willing to assist us back then.

Yes I did choose this option on the immigration sheet

"According to paragraph 2(a) to (f) of Schedule 1 to the Immigration Ordinance, which came into operation on 1 July 1997, you are a permanent resident of, and can enjoy the right of abode in the HKSAR if you are "A person not of Chinese nationality who has entered Hong Kong with a valid travel document, has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years and has taken Hong Kong as his or her place of permanent residence before or after the establishment of the HKSAR"."


Your right Cobo,Thank you for bringing this up. The immigration lawyer at the court room even ask me for rental reciepts to proved that we have been ordinarily residing in Hong Kong not less than 7 years. But I wasnt able to show any receipts, since I was in PHilippines studying and my mother is living with his employer. But wouldnt it suffice that every year I visit Hong Kong to extend my visa?

My point is I wasnt able to visit Hong Kong when I turned 16 years old and that was the time supposedly I shouldve had my Right of Abode.



Until now I am still seeking relevant advises from Hong Kong people/ Hong Kong Residents who had experienced the same issue, that can guide me through the process and direct me to the right path.




Thank you for all your responses. Really appreciate it

I can definitely feel your frustration Richard. But in all honesty, yours is a losing battle.


One thing you can do is come to HK and get a solicitor and fight your case all the way to the High Court. It's going to cost money (lots of it). But there is no certainty as to what the results might be.

I know it might be hard to find the right path and seek legal counsel in Hong Kong for free. But there are some cases who won an appeal, like this case I guess the domestic helper who lived in Hong Kong for more than a decade won the case and granted Right of abode.( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15090597 ).

What more for me? born and raised in Hong Kong? But no chinese decent in any way.

Richard, the story in the link you posted above only won the case for the domestic helper to apply for Permanent Residency, it does not mean that Immigration will accept the request and grant her PR.

Hi .. I ve read your story.. You can try to find this lawyer.(. I ll mention to you the name by email..) the lawyer is working in I.dept before.. And his wife is a filipina..he helps DH and pinoys here and he charges very cheap.. Sometimes he dont charge anything.. Or pay later after winning the case.. Pls send me your email add..

Thank you for all your sound responses.

To Arniemangers, as much as I would love to post my email address here, Asiaxpat would delete my post if there would be email addresses attached. I appreciate it if you can post the link here or can give me any info's regarding the lawyer that your pertaining to. I hope this would work out.. Thanks in advance.

Hi Beancurd,

Yes, I did sent my email address to Arniemangers.

Regarding marriages in Hong Kong. I guess the major reason that the immigration department was able to issue a dependent visa to this British man is because he married a Thai HK Resident and the lady has viable source of income which could support both of them without relying on public assistance during his stay in Hong Kong, even the British man won't work in Hong Kong, probably lady can support her . However, since Brit man found a job in Hong Kong that is in demand then I would assume Immigration department would have no doubt to issue him a dependent/employement visa.


In my case I guess, should I find a job in Hong Kong that is related to my Degree?

What are the chances ? I know how to speak a little cantonese and understand the language but im unable to write fluently and speak fluently.


Thank you for all your responses. Really appreciate all the information from different point of views.

Just Check your Birth Certificate If Written Established Then no one can stop you to apply

If written Non -Established then forget you will not get permanent residency ..you must start over again... For more information email adam00852@gmail.com ... Good Luck

Hi everyone,

I did not lose hope despite the fact that its been years researching regarding my permanent residency in Hong Kong. I just red a post that state that ordinarily resident does mean even you are not in Hong Kong for continuous period for seven years as long as you are studying somewhere else other than Hong Kong. Now I just finished my MBA degree and wish to go back to Hong Kong and appeal my case. Can anyone help me find a lawyer that I can afford.

I totally understand that the cost of hiring an experienced lawyer would cost me a huge amount of money. However, I would really appreciate it if you could refer someone that could help me. Or any routes, ideas, opinion before going to Hong Kong again.

Thank you in advance.

Dependants of the following persons are not prohibited from taking up employment in the HKSAR:

Hong Kong permanent residents; persons who are not subject to a limit of stay (i.e. residents with the right to land or on unconditional stay); persons who have been admitted for employment (as professionals, for investment to establish/join in business or for training); and entrants under the Capital Investment Entrant Scheme, the Quality Migrant Admission Scheme or the Admission Scheme for the Second Generation of Chinese Hong Kong Permanent Residents.

However, dependants of persons who have been admitted into the HKSAR to study are prohibited from taking up employment in the HKSAR unless they have obtained prior permission from the Director of Immigration.

I hope you will find the information useful.

Thank you for yor sound resopnse Scorpio01.

I totally understand where you're coming from. As much as I would like to let go of it, the opportunity of being a permanent resident in Hong Kong outwieghs my career here in the Philippines. I worked so hard to finish my degree and I know that majority of the degrees finished in the Philippines are not competitive in Hong Kong. That is the reason why I want to pursue my PR to get a job in HK and at the same time study at HKUST and purse the Masters in Accounting Program.

In addition to that I was motivated by the case handled by a human rights lawyer named Mark Daly who helped Daniel Domingo, Irene Domingo and their kids acquire a permanent resident status and unconditional stay.

As of the moment I am here in the Philippines. Is it possible for me to contact Massie and clement online for consultation?

Any relevant advise would be much appreciated.

Richard, send me PM, i will pass you contact details of Mark Daly and Massey, you can discuss with them without coming to HK.

How can I PM you?

What's wrong in Philippines? If you got the master degree then you still can have a good job there.Isn't it ? During that time, your mother was a domestic helper, Hong Kong gov didn't approve the helpers' kids who could become Hong Kong permanent residents or get the visa to live in Hong Kong. Its not about Filipinos, even mainland Chinese people's kids could not get the visas staying in Hong Kong when their kids got the master degrees in China ! There are millions of mainland Chinese kids who were born in Hong Kong and want to live in Hong Kong !

You know what ? USA gov doesnt hire the nurses from Philippines, they prefer to find the nurses in Hong Kong ! Do you see my point of the quality of educations in different countries ? You will spend more and more money and time if you try to appeal your case and pay for the lawyers' wallets.

Well I have an occupation here in the Philippines as a Professor teaching business courses. The main reason why I want to pursue my PR in HK is to get a good experience in Hk plus study at the same time because if you study in HK as a local it would be cheaper plus your limit of stay is flexible which means you have more time to finish the course. Also you have unlimited opportunities to select companies upon graduation.

I totally understand that the education system in the Philippines and HK is different in terms of quality and cost. However when it boils down to performance of an employee in an organization still I could say Filipinos have an excellent work ethic.

Going back to my concern, the case of Daniel and Irene domingo was successful their kids were able to secure a PR plus they have an unconditonal stay in HK. I was able to search it in google. So for me I also have a bigger chance of getting my PR despite there are no change in my situation or circumstances.

If you think it's easy as you said, why don't you try to get a job in Hong Kong first as far as you actually want to have job opportunities. I know some people got the degrees and phd, they couldn't get a job in Hong kong. You should study what's business and economy.

Do you speak Chinese ? That's the key for a lot of companies in Hong Kong nowsaday.

It seems that you want to get a job and good money...I guess that's the winning point that a lot of people want in the world.

My apologies I accidentally deleted my previous post could you paste it for me. Thanks