Freelancer is in some sort of trouble!

Hello Everyone.


I am having some issues and I hope you guys would help me out with advice.


I have a Full-time job and I take freelance projects to create websites and apps. It was all good until I had this client (who actually works with me in the same company) wants me to create a website (An online store) for her friends.


I sent her proposals and samples and she decided me to work on it. I drafted a contract and ask her to pay some deposit. She never signed that contract and as we are friends and work in the same company i didn't bother much.


She paid and I started to work on the template i use for her Online Store. After few days I asked her for more details and to know on what exactly she needs but she usually avoid answering because she was really busy, I have even asked for her friend's contact details so that i could talk to them and get the website running, she never provided the details.


This was somewhere in September or October last year. I kept trying to get her send me more info or contact details but no luck... (I have some emails to prove that)


And now, many months passed, out of no where she is asking for full-refund. I feel this is not acceptable. There was no issues from my side.


Now she is threatening to take legal actions against me. Sending me a long email using some "Chapter 26 Sale of Goods Ordinance Section Sec 20" "Chapter 26 Sale of Goods Ordinance Section Sec 36" and "Chapter 112 Inland Revenue Ordinance Section 14"


Now i don't know what are my rights and what can I do to resolve this, I don't feel right to return the deposit.


I would also want to know if a freelancer needs a Business Registration?


Thanks in advance!

some people are scumbags, your friend/client is one of them.


you can try to ask IRD about freelance work, but i doubt they will give any straight answer to you.

It is obviously a difficult situation when you are working in the same company to have such a dispute. Have you tried resolving the conflict by suggesting that out of the money received, since you have done some work, you would be willing to reimburse her some portion and keep some portion for yourself and call it square?


Another issue is your ‘employment’. Your employment contract may deal specifically with your inability to ‘freelance’, i.e. you may be obliged to devote your entire time and attention to your paid job. If you are a visaed employee (i.e. not a permanent resident or citizen of Hong Kong), then your activities are likely in breach of your conditions of stay under the grant of your immigration visa and you can be sanctioned by Immigration Department for breach of these conditions as they may be illegal activities.


The Ordinances quoted by your colleague are rather meaningless without the specific context, the real question is whether (failing a signed contract) the parties entered into a verbal agreement to go ahead that was supported by the payment of the deposit: we would suggest that on the facts given by you this was the case. The written agreement may then be of assistance in indicating how that deposit would be treated in the event of a cancellation of the agreement; i.e. your colleague arguably has adopted the terms of the written agreement by payment, otherwise she would not have paid deposit.


Do you need a Business Registration? If you are carrying on”business” – yes!


Weir & Associates

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16th Floor Tak Shing House

20 Des Voeux Road Central

Central

Hong Kong

Tel : 2526-1767

Fax : 2868-3568

Email : WeirLaw@WeirandAssociates.com

www.WeirandAssociates.com

I would only be worried about how it affects you at work. There's not really much else they can do.


What is their position at work in comparison to you, and does your contract (or visa) say anything about freelance work? Depending on your exact situation you might want to do a pre-emptive strike and file a complaint against them at work saying they are harassing you and you want it to stop immediately. They are scumbags, don't be afraid to take them down even if it means they have to lose their job, they have made their choice.

Thank you all for replying.


I am a Permanent Resident here (Born in Hong Kong) therefore, I will not have visa issue. My contract says I would need approval from my Boss to take up any position or job while employed, which i did and he has no problems with that.


I am the IT Manager and she is Marketing & Promotions Manager. She was glaring at me last night for sometime but did not utter a word... I kept my calm and did nothing about it...


I replied her email, explaining that it's her problem that she broke-off with her partners and not wanting the site anymore. I have the site functional except her products and info. (I consider this 90% of my work) I just cant refund her. But still I am willing to offer up to 40% and take the website as it is.


Another question would be, I do not have a BR but I have been adding my freelance income to my Tax filings. Will this be alright?

if you need some help pm me and i might be able to help u

The problem is, both of you did not sign a contract, then it's her word against against yours.

She can take you to the Small Claim Tribunal, but I heard it's a long process.

Since you did your part (work wise) then you have nothing to worry about.

You offering a small refund a is kind gesture, if she don't accept it then that's her fault/problem.

Hi,


I would like to talk to you on the online store matter. how its possible.


thanks

Its really great to see you guys helping out. Thank You all.

This is an interesting topic so thought I would ad my 2 cents. I am by no means a legal expert but have owned business in HK for many years which deals with full time employees and freelancers. I have also had my share of time in labour and small claims courts (non of my doing) so may have a little insight to share.


In my opinion the short answer is that she doesnt have a leg to stand on. As earlier stated, a verbal agreement is as good as written based on the fact payment was given in respect of the agreement. She by right of payment engaged you in services thus confirming the arrangement.


Providing you did the work you were paid for she has nothing to claim against you. It sounds more like her or her 'friend's' business didnt work out so she wants to try recover some cash. Providing the amount paid is under HK$60,000 the only thing she can do is take you to small claims court. This court is more of a line to try to get people to reach settlements on claims rather than actually prosecute for anything. If you believe you did the job equal to what you were paid, can prove the work etc then you really have nothing to worry about. Even in the slim chance that she wins the small claims case, the court does not have the power to make you pay any settlement. Yes that is right, they can not make you pay. So it ends up a pure waste of time, if it goes that far it would not even be worth showing up.


Since you declare you freelance income to the IRD and you have cleared it with your employer you wont have any trouble here either. You dont actually need a license to work freelance and since you are declaring your income that is the only concern the IRD or anyone would have so you are pretty covered.


I wouldn't stress about it. If she wants to act like a bi**h then let her and just do your thing.


Cheers.

Don't stress our too much about it, and don't scare yourself. Your colleague also same trouble as you. A) she did not get prior employer approval for accepting freelance work. B) does not have a BR license either. C) failed to disclose to IRD her freelance income.


Instead, send her back an email. Demand that she pay you for the balance of the original contract value within 14 days, or you will sue her in small claims court. When she takes leave to attend court, her employer will know she freelances.


If she don't show up, you win the small claims court case. If she does show up, let he explain to the judge why she broke her contract agreement with you.


The original problem may not be you, but her client friend. If this is the case, she should pay you the balance amount. Then she should sue her client friend in small claims to get her losses back.


Don't be afraid of these bullies if you did nothing wrong on your part. Trust the Hong Kong legal system. I know I do.


Save copies of all your email conversations as evidence of this freelance contract, and ongoing stages of progress. And write down everything you remember that was mentioned verbally. Verbal contract is also a contract.


She should be so scared after receiving your email, she will pay and stop the harassment. Don't worry about IRD. They might chase you afterwards, but then you have more cash after winning the small claims court case. And if she reports you to IRD, make sure to tell the truth that you took the freelance job from her. And she got the job from her client friend. All evidence will be in both your bank account activities, other than your regular monthly income.


Good luck. Hugo.