Hi, I am moving to HK in June for work, my office is near Quarry Bay. I need some advice on where to live, and what the rental prices would be. I have a 3 year old and 1 year old. Ideally I do not want a long commute but do not wish to stay somewhere really expensive but would like somewhere decent. My emplyer has given me a housing allowance of 30k HKD a month, what would this get me ? pls can you help with areas and ideas of what it would cost etc.. as I think I would need a 3 bed appartment. I also need ideas on schools etc for the 3 year old, i just have no idea about any of this so really need some guidance or info on websites where I can look this up
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Hiya.
You can find places for that budget in places like Tai Koo and Tai Hang, both close to Quarry Bay. In any case the Island is a small place so your commute will be decent regardless. I would recommend going to two bedroom if you can though. You'll find stuff in much nicer buildings with facilities etc...
Your biggest issue will be schools since waiting lists are currently very long. I know the kids are still young but it is time to start thinking of this now. Make sure you research schools right now and check if your employer will spring for a corporate debenture.
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Yes Tai Koo and neighbouring Sai Wan Ho or Heng Fa Chuen are good choices. Perhaps Braemar Hill, which is above North Point, but only on bus routes, not the MTR.
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have a look at Tseung Kwan O as the train ride to QB is 10-20 minutes. Lots of new developments there, look at Ocean Shores (big clubhouse, 3 pools, many playgrounds), Metro Town (you could prob get a big unit with outdoor terrace at MT for 30K, and it has a BIG clubhouse). Avoid Lohas Park as it's a ghost town right now...
have a look at gohome.com for rough pricing
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Milty
14 yrs ago
Try Braemar Hill. You should be able to get a 2 bedroom apartment there for that. The reason I mention BH is that you're away from condensed housing like at Quarry Bay or anywhere else on the island.
I just moved to Singapore a week ago after 3 years in HK. Fresh air and space is what we love. If I was to move back to HK I would stay away from the crowded areas, especially with the kids.
Good luck, and buy some air purifiers for the home.
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Even if you're planning to be in Hong Kong for only a few years, you should apply to the schools you might consider in 3-5 years' time. Many schools have long waiting lists, and time may pass quicker than you think. Also, many schools give preference to applicants from outside of Hong Kong, so you may want to start a few applcations BEFORE you get here (just to give yourself the options and flexibility). For your kids, you should buy Hong Kong For Kids - a Parents Guide (see www.hongkongforkids.net). This is a wonderful guide book for families with children in Hong Kong, and is being updated for re-publication in December 2011.
Good luck with your move.
A fellow parent
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thank you so much for your advice every one i think i will check out braemer hill to start off with, i didnt realise the school thing was soo difficult.
cstephens- i will send you a private msg it will be good to talk to a fellow parent
ps- in terms of housing allowance is 30,000 HKD a month a decent amount in everyones opinion?
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"ps- in terms of housing allowance is 30,000 HKD a month a decent amount in everyones opinion?"
It very much depends. For a single person it is excellent. For a family it is fair but not great. Some industries pay better. Depends on your corporate rank as well. Unless you tell us which industry you are in and which rank you are, it is hard to tell.
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axptguy38- my rank is VP, and will be joining a US bank to do a Product Sales role. I would like to know if I have scope to ask for more, I hate all this negotiation for packages..for women it does not come natural ..any assistance you could offer would be great
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VP is a bit of a difficult rank because it means widely varying things at different banks. I'll assume it is in the lower half of corporate ranks. In which case your allowance is fair.
You should also get the some or all of the following in approximate order of importance:
- 4-8 weeks of hotel or serviced apartment.
- Paid apartment search and agency fee.
- Paid shipping of some/all your stuff.
- School search.
- Orientation and cross-cultural training.
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As a newcomer, the link below may give you some general ideas about living and working in Hong kong. Also, once you realised how much school costs (primary level estimates about HK$93,000/year) your housing allowance may be your least concern depending on your expat package.
http://www.esf.edu.hk/about-esf/working-us-/living-and-working-hong-kong
Joan
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Hi there
We also moved here recently and for $30k a month, yes you can find something, but I suggest you should first really scout the areas and the flats - rather stay somewhere cheaper, not blow your whole allowance on the rent, since HK is a frightfully expensive city to live in and you might find there are certain expenses you did not know you will have ... and furniture wise... should the classifieds and forums... cheaper sometimes to buy secondhand (or should I say pick up secondhand for free?), but then transporting the stuff is a nightmare.. 30k is nothing for rent... since are you a single parent? then you should get a helper and that takes between 2 to 3 months to arrange one... consider that period...
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Braemar Hill, Happy Valley, Fortress Hill. The latter is close to Tin Hau which has quite a lot of restaurants. There is a development called Fortress Garden (rent 20,000-30,000 for 3 BR) which may be suitable - though you may find it a bit small to begin with. It is on top of MTR but a little way up the hill (via lift) so you get away from the hustle and bustle but is very convenient for shops, banks etc. However, not as nice as Braemar Hill. At that age, you may want to consider sending your kids to local Chinese schools (it's not so easy to do this later as they will be too far behind when it comes to learning Chinese characters). They would a) speak and read Chinese very quickly b) be more disciplined c) you wouldn't have huge education bills. Obviously, this is your choice but speaking Chinese is a big plus these days and I don't think their English would suffer if they speak it at home and have TV. I'm from England and I sent my kids to local Chinese schools - but my wife is a local HK woman.
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If I may nitpick I don't think sending kids to a local school makes them "more disciplined".
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I wish to add to that - the move for small children in my experience has a big influence on them... the jetlag affects them more than adults, and they are taking out of their comfort zone - being their friends, toys, house, etc... Very traumatic for them (for instance, our daughter was nearly potty trained, now we have to start from scratch). I would suggest give your children the one constant thing they know - English schools and introduce Mandarin to them through additional schooling.
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Stroebee. I don't think this will be much of a problem for a 1-year old and a 3-year old. As for additional schooling, they won't need any if they go to local schools as they will be fluent in both languages by the age of 4. At that age, they can pick up a language like a sponge. All they need to do is play with the other kids.
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hi thank you for the replies...keep them coming !
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I guess there is just soo much to think about that this is now becoming more stressful to manage..I just didnt appreciate how expensive it would be to live and school them there...
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Hi Workingmotherof2. Hk has no creche facilities for 1yrs old and 3yr old. There are kindergartens available for the older child, but these are only part-time places usually, and come at an added cost if you can find one with a place available, then there is you one year old to consider as well. You would definately need to add to your list the cost of hiring a helper full time, these legally have to be 'live in', and processing takes 6-8 weeks, after the initial interveiw stages until they are legally allowed to work for you. My advice for interveiwing would be to interveiw many, preferably ones who have a current employer you could talk to face to face, who may be relocating out of HK, and ask them 'scenario' type questions at interveiw so that you know you will be entrusting your childrens care to someone sensible and honest.
You will have to make provision in the type of housing you choose to make room for a small helpers room.
Cost of helper set up- from agency around 4,200HKd
Wages each month for FHD, presently 3,580hkd (but a possible rise of 7.5% soon)
Food allowance presently 700hkd, if they don't eat your food.
helper insurance around 1,000hkd per year
Employers are responsible for all medical/dental bills for their helper.
Sorry to give you more things to consider, but if you came here without knowing how to go about things here, you might have been overly surprised!!
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dont be discouraged! i came here nine years ago with my 9yo and and 11yo. we came here for a new experience and were meant to be here for only a few months. i fell in love with hong kong. i was fortunate to get a job. i was on 16K a month from that job. my rent was 4K a month. my kids went to a local school. i worked and showed my employer that i was worth having around. i got promotions and raises. i am still with the same company. i got my kids in the ESF--barely, and with connections, but i did it. for many years we did not have a lot of extras, but we sure had fun. my kids learned that there is more to life than things. they saw their mom make them a damn fine life. completely by myself. they are 18 and 20 now. my daughter is at university in australia, my son soon to follow. i met the man of dreams and married him two years ago. i have an amazing job, money in the bank and setting myself up for a comfortable retirement. the biggest challenge was schooling them here. it is expensive. the fees as well as all the extras. i am still paying the loan off for my daughters time at the esf.
i chuckle when i see some of the money people will be making or the housing allowances people will be getting and they question if they will make it. i understand people want to live that comfortable life. but there is great satisfaction in getting there.
i believe if you work hard you can be anything you want to be and make loads of money. especially in hong kong. i also believe if you want to experience something new and different, hong kong is a fine place to do it.
dont think it to death...
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wow...that is just so inspirational and you definately have motivated me to give it a strong shot. I really appreciate everyone taking the time out to post comments..my faith in humans is restored :-)
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I sent my kids to Kiangsu & Chekiang primary school in North Point. It has a local section and an international section and is the only primary school which teaches through the medium of Mandarin in Hong Kong (all the others teach in either Cantonese or English). I sent my youngest there when she was two and she went to the local section in the morning and the international section in the afternoon. Basically she was playing in the morning in Mandarin and then playing in the afternoon in English - they have a snooze at lunch time and there amahs to take care of them. Later on, you have to decide whether to follow the local or the international stream. We followed the local as Hong Kong is our home and we think it would easier for them to find work later if they can slot into Chinese society but - like I said - my wife is a local woman from HK. Choosing both sections is more expensive but I don't think it's as expensive as English School Foundation. Go to http://www.kcis.edu.hk/ and phone up the international section. They can give you advice about both the local and international sides of the school though it may be harder to get in then before as lots of people now want to get exposure to Mandarin. All local schools around this area will be of a good quality though many of the top names are to be found in the Mid-levels area. A word of warning; if you choose the local system they really push your kids to work hard. They will get homework from about 4 (copying out Chinese characters) and it will have to be done neatly. They will have to be well-turned out in a uniform and it's frowned upon if you challenge the teacher or the school.
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CIS Primary uses a dual Eng/Mandarin MOI, as do several other ISs in Hong Kong. I think Lloyd means KCS (the local section) is the only primary school teaching solely in Mandarin...
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Yes, sorry, only local primary school teaching solely in Mandarin. Not up to speed on international schools.
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Hi, I just want to make it clear - no negative feelings about the local schools, etc, but in our own experience, English is not our first language and our 2 yr old had to learn it (British TV helped a lot), and if you have a helper that can speak Mandarin, that will surely help, and with the 1yr old, yes, Mandarin is fine, but for us, the English school worked since I can communicate with my child as she is learning the new language - if she spoke Mandarin to me, I will have no idea what she is talking about...
Regarding the helper, yes, I agree with Susie1 - you have to absolutely make sure the helper is good and most importantly, fits in with you and your family, since unlike other Western societies, the helper lives with you in your house - she does not arrive for work, and leave after work - she is part of your family and you must be comfortable with her. It is a daunting move, we've just been through it and are still learning new things every day...
In this city, the world is definitely your oyster... oysters are not cheap, but are all worth the while and once you fall in love with this place, you will never look back.
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ok I have decided to make the move to HK. I guess I just need to bit the bullet and try it out ! As I am going to be working in Quarry Bay, the North Point, Braemer HIll, Happy Valley areas seem to make sense at the moment to explore, I am guessing that schools are nearby there aswell for my 3 year old. The 1 year old has much more time I reckon.!
Couple more questions:
1) What sort of furniture would it make sense to ship over? My work will pay for shipping of things. I guess its just hard to work out if any of my things would fit in a typical appartment out there
2)Are there any other items I should consider shipping over that might be too expensive in HK, i.e. fridge, TV computer etc
3) Should I stock pile on baby food and nappies?
4) How does one find a decent domestic helper?
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1) Tough question. If your work is paying, send over what you think you will need. However note that your new place will be smaller. I recommend doing a massive purge before you leave of stuff that you can get rid of. You can of course always bring something "just in case" and get rid of it here.
2) Definitely bring the computer (but remember to check the power supply to see if you need to switch to 220 volts or if it autosenses the change). With the TV, it depends. If it can use 220-240 volts and handle PAL signals, you're fine. Otherwise leave it. Do not bring fridge or other large household appliances. Bring small appliances (kettle, microwave, toaster) only if they can handle 220-240 volts. If you have a small appliance you really really don't want to part with, you can always buy a transformer, but I personally think this is not an optimal solution. The information plate or sticker next to where the cable goes in tells you the voltage requirements.
3) Nope.
4) Start on this very site: http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/helpers/
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Ed
14 yrs ago
If you want to save shipping costs you can find loads of near new, high quality furniture here http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/classifieds/
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I would just come with a ruck-sack if I were you. First you need to get the flat and then find the furniture that will fit into the flat. If you're not fussy about home decor there is a huge IKEA in Causeway Bay which is very cheap. If not, you can furnish as you go along. If you ship anything over, you will have to throw the vast majority of it out unless your housing allowance is about 200,000 HK$ per month. I remember shipping over a bike when I first came here - LOL. Ended up giving it to a friend in Discovery Bay. Tons of baby stuff so no need for nappies etc; all very advanced here. As regards helpers, you may want to consider one from Indonesia. The only reason I say that is that they are less likely to borrow money as paying interest is forbidden in Islam. This is a sweeping statement but some helpers from the Philippines borrow money or guarantee loans for friends who then disappear. The flat owners then have rough debt collectors turning up at the door step (see asiaxpat passim). That doesn't mean Indonesians don't borrow money and all Filipinas do; it's just a question of probablity. It's less likely to happen with an Indonesian helper. There are lots of agencies for Indonesian helpers in Causeway Bay (Causway Bay is where Indonesian maids congregate on their days off. Filipina maids congregate in Central at World Wide House).
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I wished I knew about this forum before I moved to HK 6 months.
Here are a few of my tips based on my moving experience:
1) The apartments in HK are super small compared to the US. You are probably looking at half the size of what you are currently living in now. I wouldn't move too much furniture over. I had an issue trying to find an apt that would fit my US queen size bed. Furniture is relatively inexpensive here and they are made to fit the small apts. Perhaps ship your children's furniture so they can be comfortable and you don't have to shop around for them.
2) Don't move your fridge over. It may be too big. Many apts for rent already have a refrigerator. I find electronics are much more expensive in HK so if they are compatible with the voltage, bring them over!
3) Stock maybe 2 weeks to 1 month supply so it'll give you time to know your neighborhood and where to stock up later. No worries about this as HK carry many foreign brands. I suspect it'll take 3-4 weeks for your shipment to arrive. It's also nice to see familiar brands delivered to your new home. :-)
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To add to others points above - Im a brit but lived here for years, have two kids 1 and 4 years old and live in Fortress Hill area, my 4 year old goes to the local stream of Kiangus and absolutely loves it. Started at just under 3 years old without having done any mandarin before, we are now considering staying there for Primary school.
No one at home speaks chinese, we do have a full time amah, we own our property but until a few years ago where renting around this area. For HKD30K yes you can find something in your budget (there are actually quite a lot of expats hidden away around this area) but like all have said expect the size to be considerably smaller than the UK, and therefore don't bring large size furniture with you it is unlikely to fit.
As far as I'm aware all UK appliances work in HK without the need for power adapters (it's generally only an issue for our US cousins). Things on the other hand that I would bring with me are Kids related items, and yes whilst nappies, foods etc are all readily available I have a preference for things like organic snacks and Milk powder from the UK (I know call me paranoid but I just tend to think the UK farming and hence what goes into the powder is likely to be more regulated than say powders that are made in say Indonesia or Malaysia). There is one shop in HK (for sure) that stock all the well known UK brands but the price is 3x that of the UK high street generally. So what I throw in my suitcase to bring back here when we've had a home visit is Calpol (sure you can get lots of other brand names here but we're comfortable with that one), organix range of snacks suh as your carrot sticks etc.
Feel free to PM me if you want any further advise and happy to meet up when you 'land' as our kids are similar ages and we'll be in the same locale.
Good luck with the move
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Wow..thank you everyone for your continual helpful responses..it really means alot and is putting my mind at rest. I definately like the idea of an Indonesian helper indeed because it means that she will eat halal food only and thats great because I can only eat Kosher/Halal also!
I got an email back from the ESF folks that for K1 stage for my little 3 year old that the time has passed and she will need to go onto the wait list, my work are happy to send me out for a week to check out the place so I wii definately like to meet a few of you helpful buddies time permitting..pls pls keep your feedback coming as it is really helpful.
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Great reply from madam x- there's such a variety of people on here & we all have different perspectives, from the OMG only $30K a month to people like me going "Wow, what I couldn't do with that money!"
Kiangsu is a good school, you might be able to get a tour when you get here & get a feel for it. As for the ESF, not getting into the Kindy doesn't stop you applying for Primary - they enter in the calendar year they turn 5, applying in the September of the year before. The kids in their kindy now get priority, but that mostly affects Bradbury School as they're right next door to one of them, though certainly you would have to make sure you apply on time for QBS too. Currently $61,000 a year, in 10 installments, but that goes up every year.
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Have you thought of taking a look at Discovery Bay? The rent is cheaper as in HKG and the great thing is: TONS of Kids and no cars allowed.
I moved here a few months ago and have a 4 and a 6 year old.
there is a Montessori Kindergarden, a International School and a College here.
Why not give it a try? :)
All the best
Stefan
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hi i do like the idea of DB, but am turned off at the potential 1 hour commute it would take door to door to get to my office which is located near Quarry Bay!
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I take this route every day and in the beginning I hated it, now in fact I love it - the ferry ride is peaceful and you get time to unwind / read newspapers, etc. Once you in DB you have forgotten about the office since it is a different world. Absolutely great for kids and all you really need is there (except if you prefer luxury goods shopping).
For your rental budget... you can get good deals there ... can easily get a 3bdr place for around $25k and cheaper.
It is really and easy commute... Ferry and then MTR. Takes me exactly 1 hour
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unfortunately wmo2, commuting (unless you have a car) can be one of the most aggravating experiences here...plan on the simplest errands taking 2x as long as back home, where you'd jump in the car and zip of here and there...you really have to plan a strategy for optimizing your travel time to take in as many of the places you need to be as possible...or the day just zips by and nothing got done!
at least that's my experience (still happening after 7 years, so I don't think you ever fully adapt...)
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Funbobby - fully agree... commuting is not only a strategy... is is sometimes an adventure!
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Have to agree with funbobby- after many years in Tokyo commuting on those darn trains, we were thrilled to come here and find we could afford to live within 30 minutes of work and still have a sea view, greenery close by.
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I am not big on commutes, esp with young kids in case of emergencies I would prefer to be fairly close by, but then again you trade off on the nice areas as such, can anyone recommend decent serviced appartments for families i nthe 30k budget around the Quarry Bay area? I think staying in a serviced appartment in the beginning may help me get an idea on appartments and areas etc..,
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one that comes to mind is Kornhill Apartments (google it as posting the site might get this post deleted...)
they have 1000ft+ units, but with kitchenette they are double your budget
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hi, i do not want to offend anyone, but i have had a few emails from some colleagues telling me to avoid living in the New Territories, they have not give any explicit reasons, but what could be their concern about living there??!!!
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I think your colleagues have a case of "Island Snobbery". If they can't give a good reason, they don't have one.
I love living on the Island, but I can understand the arguments for the New Territories.
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agreed...there seems to be a perception that if you live 'on the island', you've somehow 'made it' in life (the ability to pay exhorbitant rents being a factor)...in my mind it suits some people, but not others...disregard your colleagues advice and make up your own mind when you get here (be sure to visit the NT at least once or twice ;-)) you might be pleasantly surprised! i don't think anyone can argue that it's not a more relaxed lifestyle,overall, than most areas of the island...
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thanks guys, i will for sure check out the NT when I arrive on the 20th june for a weeks mini visit. I think some of the folk here view the NT's are mostly chinese and hence had some concerns about me fitting in and being able to make friends easily if we were not in the typical expat type areas...also there were some comments from them about the lack of western eateries and facilities and that the kids may suffer, all of these i feel are maybe a little ill founded and not backed up so i am listening with a pinch of salt...definately by what i am hearing from the positive comments from people on this site for example i am feeling encouraged..
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thanks guys, i will for sure check out the NT when I arrive on the 20th june for a weeks mini visit. I think some of the folk here view the NT's are mostly chinese and hence had some concerns about me fitting in and being able to make friends easily if we were not in the typical expat type areas...also there were some comments from them about the lack of western eateries and facilities and that the kids may suffer, all of these i feel are maybe a little ill founded and not backed up so i am listening with a pinch of salt...definately by what i am hearing from the positive comments from people on this site for example i am feeling encouraged..
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One part of this may be perception of commute times. While a HKer, especially and Islander, thinks 30 minutes is on the longish side to travel for a meal, your typical North American thinks that's round the corner.
As mentioned I personally prefer the Island, but I absolutely detested my 29-32 minute commute in the US. I disliked living in a house in suburbia. Not all are like me.
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Workingmotherof2. Typically, people who move to HK initially settle in an urban area then move to the location which fits in with their preferred life-style - taking into account, of course, their salary, school and job location. Here's a quick cheat-sheet which will allow you to play "Guess where the expat lives" when you arrive here. Please don't take it too seriously as it is only a rough guide.
Young on high salary and short-term contract, no kids: Mid-levels, SOHO
Middle-aged on high salary with kids: Mid-levels, South Side, Repulse Bay
Senior expat govt employee with housing allowance :The Peak, Jardine's Lookout
Expat that can't compromise on western life-style: Discovery Bay
Well-off laid-back dude looking for villagey feel: Happy Valley
Gone native but unwilling to commute far: Anywhere east of Tin Hau
Average salary, no need for expat frills: South Horizons, Park Island, Aberdeen, Tseung Kwan O, Yau Tong
Long-term expat with a yearning for the country life: Sai Kung
Hippy, mis-fit or without means: Lamma (aka 'Planet Lamma' by HK Island snobs)
HK-born Brit that speaks fluent Cantonese or orientalist scholar: Distant village in the New Territories
'Old China hand' or grizzled expat (possibly with several wives and a string of alimony payments): New Territories village
I'm in the 'gone native but unwilling to commute far' category.
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LG is Miss V- tks for the above write up. I am not quite sure where I fit into. I am not an amazingly high salary, have a decent housing allowance of 30,000 HKD a month though, and have two little kids. I would like the outdoor space, but really do not fancy the long commute to quarry bay, I am hoping that when I arrive for my mini trip from the 20th June for a week that I will get a better handle on areas and the best value for money also, whilst taking into account schools and all the other things that comes when you have lilttle nippers to worry about! :-)
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Solve schools first. Then figure out living situation.
Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela, that is brilliant. I'm totally stealing it! :)
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mcyb
14 yrs ago
Hi There,
I moved here 9-months ago with 2 kids. One is turning 1 in a few weeks and the other is 4.
We love HongKong and hope to stay for as long as we can. The only advice i have for you and your family is to leave close to work as possible. So if you need to see the kids etc you are only a few minutes away. I have friends with young kids who leave in Quarry Bay and they love it. The parks are nice and they have a few good restaurants etc. If you are interested in Quarry Bay i ca get a friend of mine to email you on how she's liking it etc. As for a helper i would suggest that you try and get a helper through someone else (word of mouth from work etc) rather then the agency.
Also please remember that pollution is terrible here so your kids might get sick a few times in the year, with coughs etc
Overall HongKong is beautiful and once you know your way around you will not regret moving here.
All the best with your move.
Blessings to you and your family.
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Hi mcyb- that would be really awesome, can you please pm her email or alternatively get her to to drop me a line as I would love to share notes. I hear you on the helper, but it would be difficult to use word of mouth given I know like no one in Hong Kong at the moment! so unfortunately I will have to leverage the assistance of an agency unless anyone here has anyone leaving them that would like a job! My dates have now been pushed out by a month to July at this stage. I am however coming out week of 20th June to have a look around HK with my other half.
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Hi, getting a helper as quickly as possible is a must, but don't just get anyone..... finding one via word-of-mouth is the best as we were suggested, but we were fortunate enough to find a wonderful person via adverts on various expat forums. But, interview, interview, check up, reference check, etc etc an absolute must. Even if you find someone yourself, you must go via an agency to get all the legal stuff done, especially if she is from the Philippines. The whole process takes about 2 - 3 months - keep note of this.., else, if you are working, what about your kids?
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Your kids will be fine "working mum" I love kids and at the drop of a hat I will tke care of them, they can help me feed the tortoises. Honestly I am here should you need. They are tiny children and that will be a bit difficult for them but dont worry. Im a man I can cope hehehehe. Least I love to cope if you need me. I have three gret big dogs but they love little things ike bb birds and children. Just a thought if you are in a pickle and want to go away for three days I would most certainly love to look after your precious babes. Maybe we should meet before and all that. i dont think a maid is the best idea honestly I dont. Been there done that as no one here is willing to admit it seems?
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Lets hope the pollution is a little better by the time you get here for your look around. It may put you off HK altogether especially as you have children. It really is dire! I know, sounding rather negative, but a true and rather horrid fact about Hong Kong sadly.
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Yes Cara I wouldnt be strange if we had "already met as I suggested", my point is net working is vital to survival in Hong Kong.
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