Will you report your UBW?

Wondering how many people will voluntarily report their Unauthorised Building Work / Illegal Structures on their village houses under the new Reporting Scheme.


Read a few stories in the SCMP and am unsure if it is a good idea to report a rooftop structure that is built on top of the second story and is under 50% of the main building area for that level.


And if you do go ahead with the report, how do you find a TCP-T2 or registered structural engineer/registered professional engineer to evaluate your UBW?


Thanks for any advice!

Hi I am wondering the same thing. apparently as long as it is structurally safe and doesn't impose a danger you just have to have it inspected every five years but it could be a means of data gathering and things could change. I wonder also if those who have received the registration pack have already been identified anyway or has everyone received one????

Hi supermfd2,


Glad someone else is interested in this situation. I would be in the second round of less serious offenses so am eligible to register the UBW. Been researching this issue and there is conflicting analysis between what the government says versus what has been reported (mostly in SCMP as I can’t read Chinese). I’m hoping that someone who can read the local papers can add what they know.


First, the Heung Yee Kuk, which represents the villagers, says it supports the government. But the village leaders say not to register because the Secretary for Development has stated that by registering, you will be a target in the second round of enforcement, whether that is in five years or later. Nowadays, the Kuk is fighting to get houses of three stories or more exempted so its current actions doesn’t apply to us less serious offenses anymore.


Second, articles in SCMP says that the lesser offenses can be certified and the registration renewed every five years. I never read that in an official government position so am unclear if this is true or just reporters’ analyses.


Third, there are over 4,000 houses three stories and higher so I wonder how long it will take the government to get through them before they can enforce removal orders on lesser offenses UBWs. If it will take, for example, 10 years then is it pragmatic to register and make your property a known target? You will still have to incur the removal cost when they enforce. By registering, you avoid the penalty and delay enforcement until they finish going after the non-registered UBWs. Who knows if they will really go after them first when they have a list of registered UBWs they can easily prosecute. Perhaps the registration will also cloud the title of your property.


I’ll share what I learned so far in my research:


1. The blue pamphlets with registration forms were given to all village houses (I read that and also saw them in my neighbors mailboxes even though they don’t have any UBWs).


2. SCMP, April 02: All 27 rural committees in the New Territories have reached a consensus not to declare any illegal structures.


3. SCMP, April 9: The lesser breaches subject to registration include a glass house covering less than half the rooftop and enclosed balconies. Once certified, such items can be kept and the registration renewed after five years.


4. SCMP, April 9: Kuk leaders, including Julius Ho Kwan-yiu of Tuen Mun rural committee - and president of the Law Society - earlier called on villagers to boycott the system, which he said incriminated them…he believes the legal basis of the declaration is unsound and that owners may be unable to mortgage their homes for bank loans as a result of the declaration.


5. SCMP, April 11: The government has said no enforcement action will be taken against structures found to be safe as long as they are registered. Those who fail to register will be targeted once the registration scheme expires in September.


LEGCO:


6. LEGCO, 22 June 2011: Is the registration system actually letting off those low-risk illegal structures? It is not a letting off. It is not an amnesty. All those unauthorised building works, where the owners come forward to register and to certify its safety by a technically competent person, is really to put them into a list where we would proceed to enforce the law at the second stage.


6. LEGCO, 28 June 2011: We should reiterate that we would not entertain any suggestions for an

amnesty, nor would we contemplate a levy in lieu of enforcement. We further reiterate that any building works carried out in contravention of the law and the structures so constructed are unlawful. They will not be permitted or be exempt from law enforcement. Moreover, they will in no circumstances be rendered lawful by any administrative means. Hence, the main objective of the above “Registration Scheme for UBW” is to define clearly the distinction between existing UBW in village houses and new UBW for reference in law enforcement and to ensure the safety of the UBW concerned through regular inspections by competent persons. The scheme will provide the Administration with more accurate statistics and information which would facilitate the drawing up of further detailed implementation arrangement and timetable for tackling UBW in village houses in a systematic manner. Once the time-table had been drawn up, the Administration will make announce them in advance and will encourage the owners and occupants to remove the UBW themselves.


If anyone has some information, please share what you’ve learned so we can make a decision whether to register. Thanks!

I live in a village which is one of the nine first round targets for removal orders. No documents have been sent out yet to offer registration for lesser offences. The most likely action will be a negotiation period once Carrie Lam has got her promotion and a new development secretary put into place. As it stands the government would be very foolish to proceed with their present attempt to clamp down as it would result in social discontent and potentially some very bad PR. As very few will be registering yet I would wait until the situation is clearer.

Hi jaswells - that is very interesting that your targeted village has not received the registration pamphlet yet mine has.


Pamphlet: http://www.bd.gov.hk/english/documents/guideline/NTEH_GL01.pdf


Registration form: http://www.bd.gov.hk/english/forms/NT01.pdf


supermfd2 - did you receive the pamphlet?

http://programme.rthk.org.hk//assets/contentindex/asx/radio3_514_176063_18445.asx


a very good discussion.....


theres another i heard on RTHK. never been a big local media listener as most is boring news about typhoon coverage and constant over turned mini buses that drive like mad !!


i think RTHK especially Back chat programme is an excellent source of coverage. i will be following them


hope this link helps

one more.....


http://programme.rthk.hk//assets/contentindex/asx/radio3_514_174158_18023.asx


you can signup on there webpage for rthk updates


cheers

Thanks coolcontact - interesting coverage and appreciate you finding this!

from many of the locals in my area, they arent that bothered at the moment. its the wait n see senario for them,


last resort is submit on the 29th September. so that'll be 44,000 letters in the mailbox on the last day.

should keep em busy if nothing else i suppose...


There will be uproar if they fudge this up. it opens a can of worms

1. Like ANY aircons on the outside of a building

2. Advertising signs

3. Extending canopies

4. porches

5. Garage use

6. Sheds etc


Judicial review is the only way i have heard the act could be reversed.


Personally as long as its safe, what difference does it make if your balcony is open or closed in.

it is your space after all...


Going up an additional 2 or 3 floor is bang outta order as is building on other people land.


do that on government land and its payback.


they say outta control, they do have a point on a legal front but as usual its the greedy few that rock the boat and reck it for everyone else being a bit cheecky but not taking the PI*S

But is an extra floor covering 50% of the rooftop out of order?


How about 70%, 63.5%?


What if the government has overlooked the structure on private land for 30 +years? should this be considered?

Has anybody reported theirs yet? I have an old 2 story building that I've done a lot of changes to thinking, like so many around here, that nobody would ever notice. Well I bet wrong didn't I! So time to own up and make the report, but need safety certification.


Can't find anybody willing to do it, not that it's too expensive or something like that, they just aren't willing to even come and look.


If anybody has an introduction to a T2 and a structural engineer (I have something on a balcony) that would be greatly appreciated, so far I'm finding it hard.


Really what I want to do is find someone who is doing most of this work, e.g. is familiar with how to do this and knows the line on what does or does not need to be reported. (Plumbing? Painting? Rendering?)


Thanks.

Well, we got a visit from the Lands Department telling us they want a site inspection. Does anyone know what to do at this juncture? I read in SCMP that the Heung Yee Kuk is saying just ignore the Lands Department but that does not seem possible if they directly contact you.


If anyone has any knowledge or ideas on this matter, would greatly appreciate if you could share your experience.

Does anyone have info on who can come and do a survey of ubw and give opinion on which category they fall into - e.g. dangerous ubw or ubw which will be given the ok for 5 years?

The deadline for reporting will be end of this Month. I've worked for several villages on this UBW reporting scheme for the pass few week. If you need any help, please drop me an email : dickdeewong@yahoo.com.hk

The deadline for reporting has been deferred three months. I have successfully helped more than ten XPATs to inspect their houses and issue safety certificates. If you would like to do the same, please drop me an email at dickdeewong@yahoo.com.hk

I heard that Government will carry out second around of inspection to the villages. Is that true?

If your UBW is in the less severe category then it seems sensible to report. I am a construction lawyer and house owner with UBW's in the NT and intend to report. Email me if you have any questions on timhallworth@netvigator.com

The risk with reporting is that you may be put on a list of the first round targets to be issued an order to remove your UBW after the five years. The head of the Law Society characterized reporting as "self-incrimination".


In the bigger picture, if the government really does want to ensure safety then they should allow safe structures to be legalized. Instead they are spending millions on enforcement and tearing down existing safe structures. Right now, many people just build shoddy structures with cheap materials in an unsafe manner because they don't want to invest in anything that could be demolished by the government. If owners could legalize canopies and glass houses, they would want to build high quality structures that enhance the value of the property and are safe in the long term.

Any updates on this situation? The new deadline is approaching. I hadn't realised that air-con units were illegal structures! Is there a list of qualified engineers? Has anyone worked with a competant person? I believe i have a 6, a 7 and several 8s.

I have just written an article about this. See http://www.minterellison.com/publications/voluntary-reporting-scheme/. I am a chartered surveyor/lawyer and NT house owner with UBW.

timhallworth@netvigator.com

Hello all,


Long time no more post to this. What is the actual situation nowadays?