Posted by
sharee2
13 yrs ago
Hi, my husband has been offered a job over in HK for 45000 HKD per month for the 1st 6 months & than will receive a guaranteed payrise. He also recives a $10000 HKD living allowance. Just wondering if this will get 2 children (4yr old & 1yr old), my husband & I by with the cost of living? We've been looking at Discovery Bay as he will be working at the airport, preferably a 3 bedroom place (at least) that is safe for children. I wouldn't require Domestic Help for the 1st year & for the 1st 6 months I wouldn't send my eldest son to Kindergarten/childcare, they'd both stay home with me (to save costs & get used to another country).
My biggest concern is the safety of my children in a high rise building as my eldest son is a climber. Are they all child friendly? I noticed some apartments are located on ground floor or have a fenced grassed area.
I need as much information as possible - all the pro's & con's I can possibly get to better prepare my family before we make definite decisions. So if you have anything else to add, it would definitely be appreciated. Thank you in advance for your time.
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Ed
13 yrs ago
Re: safety issues... you should make sure your apartment is fitted with child safety measures on the windows that prevent them from opening enough for someone to fall out.
These are fairly simple devices - you can write it as one of the contracts with your landlord.
Agree re: rent... you will definitely have to top up the housing allowance no matter where you live if you want something decent... if your company expects you to house 4 people on 10k then perhaps you should have a word with them and ask them to increase to something more realistic...
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Thanks so much Cara & Ed for your replies, definitely appreciate all your advice.
Yes the job offer is for CX. They used to have a living allowance of $40000 but over the years it dropped down to $10000. And yes unfortunately we can't talk them into more living allowance, however, there are a heap of other great benefits. Cara, thank you for taking the time to show us an approx budget, this is fantastic & along the same lines as what we had budgeted to except we rounded it up a bit more for each.
We are looking at rentals in both Tung Chung & Discovery Bay. I personally liked Discovery Bay better because of all the expat info I've read through & I feel I'd be most comfortable there even if we did have to pay extra for everything.
I like the idea of getting child security/safety on the windows in the rental contract. This would get rid of my idea of the garden area & make it a little cheaper.
Really appreciate all your advice, if there's anything else I should know, I'd love to hear/read more. Thank you!
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Ditto everything Cara has said...
In addition:
Getting around DB is not the most convenient, unless you can afford 1.2 million HK for a golf buggy (last time i checked) plus parking. They offer a shuttle bus service, however, when you calculate the shuttle bus travel.. bus to TC.. then MTR.. or ferry .. its not the most convenient place to live.
Park Island might be something else you could consider. That said, you'll find it difficult to find a 3 bedroom apartment pretty much anywhere in Hong Kong for 10k/mth.... except Sea Ranch perhaps??
Also keep in mind, that a 3 bed apartment in HK is very different to what you may expect in Australia... usually a bedroom is only just big enough for a bed... let alone a wardrobe lol..
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My husband suggested we rent in Tung Chung to start off with & than when he becomes a 1st officer, possibly move to DB. We also have friends who also work for CX in Tung Chung. At least we'll get a full understanding of what the cost of living is really like when we are there.
The $10000HKD Living Allowance isn't our cutoff, we look at spending another $10000-$15000HKD per month on top of that to get something decent, if need be.
Definitely appreciating all these comments, thank you!
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Try Park Island. http://www.parkisland.com.hk
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Thanks for the recommendations on Park Island, had a brief look & looks fantastic. Have to find out a little more about it though. Does anyone know if it's a good place for children?
Also, we understand the tax rules but how do you pay this tax? Especially the 1st year pro-rata tax. Are we expected to pay this tax as soon as we arrive or is it due at the end of the financial year? And lastly, is this automatically deducted from your wage or do you self manage this payment?
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Hi Sharee2, Tax: the tax office contacted me when my first tax return was due to be filed. I completed the form, mailed it in and in due time received a bill for tax for the previous year/months and provisional tax for the next year. This is paid in two instalments in Jan and Apr, I think. Tax is not PAYE, you need to save it and be ready to pay when it's due (about 15% of your income). After the first year, I heard about tax reserve certificates, so I signed up. I now pay into my TRC account every payday and never have to worry about tax bills - my tax is automatically deducted from my TRC account which earns a small amount of interest. You can get a low interest loan from your bank if you need it to pay taxes.
Accommodation: I'd recommend arranging temporary accommodation when you first arrive - about 2 weeks to a month in a hotel or serviced apartment - and then deciding where to rent. I did this and am so glad I did. I was able to better understand what would be best for us. My colleagues were helpful with suggestions and I found an English-speaking real estate agent to help me find what I was looking for in the location I thought was best for my son and me. The serviced apartment we stayed in at first was not in a convenient location for getting to/from work, but as it was only temporary it was OK. I can't find any serviced apartments on Lantau Island, but Silvermine Beach Hotel has long stay packages. It's located in Mui Wo on Lantau Island. Or you could choose the hotel at the airport, or any other location - since it's temporary, the location doesn't have to be perfect. Silvermine Beach is a nice place to stay with children.
When you sign an apartment lease it's for 2 years, but you can give notice that you want to leave after 13 months without penalty. You'll need to pay: deposit - 2 months' rent; the first month's rent; 50% of the monthly rent for the agent's fee; deposits for utilities; stamp duty. It all adds up to a huge amount!
Before you sign the lease, check apartment for any faults and document them all. We failed to do this in our first apartment (eg the curtains were sun and water stained and torn - we took them down and then re-hung them before leaving. There were other faults, too.) and in the end the owner refused to return our deposit, claiming we had been responsible for the "damages". I walked away from the fight as I had no proof and have been told the law favours the landlord here. I know we didn't do it, but it was my word against his word. So, take photos, document everything. I have done this for my second and third apartments, just in case, and informed the landlords, too.
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Thanks "man overboard" for the tax info. This helps alot, we would probably do the same. We never thought of temporary accommodation before but will look into it. Also, thanks for the heads up on the landlord problems. Will definitely keep this in mind.
In regards to education, thankfully 90% of our school fees are covered in the job contract so school fees aren't too much of a worry for us, except enrolling & choosing a school. My concern is trying to get our son enrolled into a school, I heard there's big waiting lists on the english schools.
For the first 6 months I had planned on keeping the 2 boys with me until we get used to our surroundings. I thought it might be good to join a local mothers group.
We had a quick look through on real estate sites for Silvermine Bay/Mui Wo & noticed what they have available at the moment is really tiny, a little too small for our family of 4. We're currently living in a 2 bedroom apartment, just under 950 square feet so I think we'd be fine adjusting to how much space we have in places we've seen like Tung Chung, DB & Park Island. The closer we are to the airport, the better.
We would catch public transport everywhere.
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Ok, so back to education - what's the deal with debentures & waiting lists? This is starting to really concern me when we do send our son to school. Does anyone know if CX has a debenture school list?
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If your children are below four, you may want to put them in the local system. That way, they will be able to read and write Chinese. However, it also means discipline and lots of homework - and as a parent you have to toe the line.
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Very cheap, no waiting lists and your kids will be bi-lingual within 2 years - greatly enhancing their future employability.
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Thanks for all your comments. We have a lot to consider & still alot to research. We're coming in a couple of months to check it all out & look for rentals. Looks like either Tung Chung or Park Island for us to start for the first couple of years.
Will definitely be talking to CX about the education & debentures. Hopefully they have something in place to help us out there because all in all - our childrens education is paramount!
Thanks again for your time, you've been of great help :)
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In a simple nutshell - 45K wont get you much in HK. Stay put where you are.
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Thanks "HarliQuin" just had a quick look but will look into Manulife a little further.
"Xerxes" thanks for your reply but we'd like to know why wouldn't $45000HKD be enough? If you're able to break this down for us so we can understand where you're coming from (eg. A realistic monthly budget, etc). Please note that this 45 is the minimum & what we'd start out on. There are lots of other incentives & bonuses on top of that. Appreciate your feedback.
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Take a look at this. You need to adjust the figures to fit your family. As for medical insurance, I'm sure Cathay has it's own group insurance which will be cheaper compared to individual private insurance policy, check it out with the company.
Monthly expenses:
Car (and related expenses) 0.00
Housing 18,000.00
HealthCare 2,500.00
Food 10,000.00
Education (kids) 3,000.00
HouseHelp (& related) 5,000.00
Etc. 3,000.00
Total 41,500.00
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"punter" this is great, thank you! Yes, CX covers private health insurance. Education wise, is this for local, english or international? Thanks again!
This is a rough estimate of what we were thinking but rounding up of course & per month (This is from our research so far & not including taxes, etc):
Rent: $20,000
Food: $10,000
Education: $5,000
Utilities, Internet, Mobile: $2,000
Other: $3,000
Total: $40,000
We wouldn't require house help for the 1st year or 2 as I would be at home with our boys until they go to kindergarten, preschool, primary. This is what we're used to anyway. I'd only require house help when I go back to work.
If I've missed anything, please fill me in. Thanks!
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It's one thing to have a budget, but you really need to have something of an emergency fund as well. Just in case.
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Sharee2: Not knowing the type of life style you currently have in Australia, I would assume its is quite decent. People tend to countries to find better living conditions and better economic opportunities.
It clearly seems to me that for both cases you would be regressing. I can defenitely assure you that your living conditions would not be anywhere near your current one in Australia. Economic opportunites? 45K HKD does not sound like a great economic opportunity, especially when you are packing your bags and coming to live in the most expensive city in the world. Yes the most expensive. Forget about London, Tokyo, New York - HK has now surpassed them in all aspects. The other items you have left out is "emergency funds" unexpected expenses and underestimating the real costs to live hear.
Sure, the locals can live hear on 20K HKD per month, but given your western life-style and tastes, this is going to be the biggest transformation for you way of life if you decide to move here....
Good Luck
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Hi Sharee,
With your budget, don't forget to put money aside each month for taxes. You will also be taxed on your housing allowance and schooling tuition benefit if you get it for your kids. Preschool costs approximately $4000-$5000/month per child (DMK, Sunshine, ESF, etc) International schools from grade 1 start around $8000/month for tuition (plus uniform, bus, debenture, capital levy, newvstudent fees, etc). CX has debentures, but your spouse won't qualify as he is not senior management. Debentures are required at AIS, CDNIS, HKIS, CIS, GCIS, SIS, Kellet, FIS, DBIS, etc. I think DBIS debenture is around $800,000/child. Discovery College also has debentures that help you jump the wait list for about $450,000/child. CX does not pay for debentures. I would suggest you get both your kids on school waiting lists as securing schooling is the hardest part about living in HK. If you are living in Tung Chung I suggest DC, DBIS, YMCA, LIS and ESF kindy. Don't forget to also put a little money aside for trips/vacations home, presents, clothes, children's birthday parties, buying furniture, clubhouse fees.... Others have done it... So will you! Happy moving!
Canucker
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Hi Sharee,
Flats in DB with a garden start around $30,000/month. 3-bedroom around 1200sq ft flats with a garden around $45,000/month. Tung Chung will probably offer bigger bang for your buck. 3-bedrooms in DB around 850 sq ft start at $20,000/month. The Greens are the cheapest in DB if you want to be in DB.
Canucker
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Yes we definitely have emergency back up, wouldn't bother moving if we didn't. We've had an emergency backup in place since we first got engaged - been married 7 years. We also have a very supportive family if there is any troubles. Not that we're depending on that.
Not all westerners are the same just as not all hong konger residents are the same either.
We currently live in a 2 bedroom unit with no yard, less than 950 square feet. Financially we've been preparing & conditioning ourselves for this move since my husband decided to choose this particular career path - knowing we could be anywhere in the world & knowing of the possible tough start as most of the rewarding careers come with.
My husband & I have always lived simply. We're not big spenders, we're savers & we're the type of people that enjoy a little luxury once in a blue moon (that's not over-exaggerated as we do have 2 children). Our type of luxury is spent getting to know people, having dinner/lunch with friends, spending quality time with our children, teaching our children new things, etc. Our luxuries don't always consist of material things. This is what keeps us sane.
And yes, agreed "Cara" they are some mighty big assumptions. To be a little more helpful "xerxes", how about asking or telling us westerners some of your specific points why we won't make it? Telling us that we won't make it, isn't really insightful information. I'd love to compare our current circumstances with this, it would also help us to figure out where we may or may not struggle.
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Thanks "Canucker" this is great information. We've definitely decided on Tung Chung & with no garden. The schooling is what is most concerning however it's paramount for our official decision. Appreciate all this information - Thank you!
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Sharee2,
I assume that CX is a smart enough employer not to bring families to HKG unless there is a very good chance that the whole venture will be a success.
You are obviously making an investment in your future. Keep your heads down, don't get seduced by the myriad ways to spend money in the place, and things will be okay.
It is a lot better to take chances while you are young and healthy and adaptable. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Sharee2,
I can't stress how important it is to get both your children on school waiting lists NOW. Don't wait til you move to HK. I know people who did it 2+ years before moving to HK because they knew they were coming.
Canucker
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sharee2 - At the end of the day, only you know what kind of life you already have, and what kind of life you're hoping to have.
We came to HK many years ago, with two young children, hoping for a better life. The first year or two were a bit of a struggle ... things were more expensive than we had anticipated. However, we were determined to make a go of it. Our main concern was education for our children and, quite frankly, we believe that our kids have had a far better education and life experiences in HK than they would have had back in our home country. As others have said, your first priority should be to get your kids on a waiting list for whichever school you decide upon (many won't put you on a list until you have a confirmed Hong Kong address) ... just be aware that schools here generally have a catchment area, you may only be able to put your kids name down on a waiting list if you are living in the catchment area for that particular school.
Although it was a bit of a struggle to begin with, we have ended up having a very nice life indeed here in HK. Don't let anyone put you off ... if you don't like it, or things don't work out, you can always go back to Australia ... instead of wondering 'what if ... ?'
Good Luck to you and your family!
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Sharee:
I never said that you wont make it, I'm saying that is is difficult to most likely live the life you probably have back home....Like I said in my previous reply, you can probably live on a "local" average salary. I figured that you are probably not an "average local" with average expectations. Given the "aussie" way of life, I'm sure you want to bring some of it here, right?
All you need to do is look at what you gain by coming to HK and what you have to leave behind....
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I believe that the entire string reasoned that the couple (plus 2 kids) would need, conservatively, in the forties to liveper month. Let's not forget many items were left off (taxes, emergencies, private tutoring form children...) Sometimes common sense tends to prevail over numbers and statistics.
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cara - "Sapphire, I believe only ESF have catchment areas... i've never heard of any other schools here with them."
I stand corrected ... hopefully the OP won't encounter the problems that we had, as long as they don't plan to send their children to an ESF school ...
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NW14
13 yrs ago
In a "nutshell", you only have one life to live, don't be scared to take a chance.
Some good advice given by the folks here, with 45k and 10k housing, you will find a way to live in Hong Kong.
Not every expat with kids lives in 30k + housing per month. You will not know the true situation of the schools until you get here. And, like you say, the 45k is the start. If your husband does well, this should increase.
You will never know unless you take the plunge...
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Thanks everyone for your comments, we've taken each one on board. Some of you have explained our current train of thoughts (cara, Sapphire, NW14) & explained how we feel about the move into another country. All in all we don't have much to leave behind except our friends & family. They can always come visit & vice versa, we'll also have the privledge of meeting new people. We do have some friends currently living at the Gold Coast & Tung Chung, so that's a start.
Thanks again & feel free to keep commenting. The more advice we get, the better :)
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If you are genuinely leaving Australia permanently, and can prove this, you should be able to avoid Australian tax. If you have an accountant in Australia, you should discuss this with them. If you have any Australian assets, particularly property, you will need to be a bit careful. Moveable assets should be moved out of the country, and you should seriously consider selling any real estate (but again, important to take advice, if you would prefer not to sell).
Again, take advice (including from the ATO - they are not unreasonable), you should certainly put in tax returns for this financial year, and then if you are moving after 1st July (and still earning income in the new financial year) put in another set of returns.
The best single piece of advice I received from my accountant when I was approaching retirement, and thinking about clever ways of minimising taxation was "do not try to outsmart the ATO" The technology that the ATO has access to these days makes it very difficult to hide assets or income.
That said, if you are genuine non-residents, for a reasonable period of time, you will not be liable for Australian income tax, except on income sourced from Australia. And that is usually a minimum rate.
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Ok, it's now official, coming to HK at the start of 2013, longterm. Visiting in 1 month to check it all out with my hubby. Currently looking into schools that we can apply for now for both our boys. Not fussed if it's local or private to start with - just as long as my eldest can get in somewhere but because we get a really good schooling package with CX, we'd like to put him down on the private waiting lists anyway (might have to wait til we're actually living there for some).
Question; does anyone use a air filter? Do you need one? Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
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Hey Sharee2,
Congrats! Again... Please start researching schools for your boys now and start filing out forms and submitting ASAP. CX may give you a wonderful schooling package, but you have to get your kids in a school first. I cannot stress this enough, start applying and putting your boys on wait lists now. I know people who applied to DBIS for their son 3 years before moving to HK with CX (he was 2 months old) and they got him in for this August. CX does not pay for debentures, new student fees, application fees, bus fees, uniforms, laptops, etc. and remember you are taxed on the schooling $$$ you get from CX.
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CX only pays 90% of average ESF fees. So international schools whose tuition is higher, you may only get 50% coverage. For example, Discovery College is approx $83,000/yr for primary where HKIS is $145,000/yr for primary. So no matter what school your child goes to, you will only get approx $72,000. You'll have to pay the remaining out of your pocket. So approx $11,000 for DC or $73,000 for HKIS.
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Congratulations Sharee2,
You'll definitely love HK life. As you have probably noticed from many of the posts here... once you make the move, you'll find it difficult to leave.
In comparison to Australia, you'll also appreciate the low cost of utilities, tax, food, public transport.. and perhaps even medical expenses. You'll also note how efficient everything is here in HK. If you want something done, even at midnight on a Sunday... you'll probably find someone who is willing to do it at a drop of a hat... As someone else pointed out, after experiencing life in HK you'll start to notice that many of your friends lives have been in "pause" in comparison to yours.
Regarding air purifiers, it probably depends on whether any of you suffer from any allergies. I personally don't have any need for one... but there are many who suffer from the pollution here.
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Thanks Canucker, puts it into perspective a little more. We have a fund we started when each of our boys were born for school education for such a time as this, if needed. Getting on top of the schooling now, already started filling out some application forms. A little excited but this is my biggest stress!
Hi rob_378, that's something we're looking forward to, we're sick of the same old, same old & no disrespect to any of our friends & family, that whole "life on pause" is the typical.
In regards to the air filter, thankfully none of us have any allergies. We won't purchase one right away, see how we go first. Just interested to see how many people actually use them in their homes & whether it's necessary.
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ahhh, air filters. Its amazing an advise thread about moving to Hong Kong can go on this long without anyone talking about the god awful air here. I think a lot of locals are in denial, as they have become accustomed to how bad it is. I urge you to educate yourself on the air in Hong Kong. It is extremely unhealthy, especially for young kids. There are plenty of threads on this site that discuss the air in Hong Kong, I suggest you take the time to read them.
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Hi "unattendedbag" thanks heaps. Yeah I've done a bit of research into it (eg. read a few threads, googled, read articles, etc). Do you use an air filter at all? Our friends who live in Gold Coast & Tung Chung both have air filters. They were the ones that recommended us looking into it.
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Hi Saree2, I live in TC and probably its one of the pratical places to live(outside of hk island). As suggested by others in terms of benefits like communting, groceries etc there are other things to note like reasonable kindergarten in tung chung. Flat sizes are reasonalbe the place is quite open where you can go for cycling, parks etc, some okay medical clinics are present (govt hospital to open by this year end)
Since I am living there here is the realistic budget, pm me if more info is required.
Flat rent (with helper room) around 1154 sf 17000
Kindergarten fee pm 5000
Utilities - tv, elect , gas, ph , internet(max) 1500
Food and groceries 8000
Transportation to Airport , pm 240
tax to save a month(approx) 7000
Total 38740
Food and transportaion buget may increase ot couple of toundands
thx viks
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"vivhunter" this is what I'm after, someone who is currently living in TC. We're pretty set on it, only issue would be transport to whatever school we can get our eldest son into.
What are the public & private schools closest to TC. I've tried to research local schools but nothing is coming up, only english & international schools (which we've applied for & still applying for). Just don't want to miss putting our boys names down for any of them!
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Sharee:
You can see now the complications of moving to HK....Originally, you question to this link was..."my husband was offered a job in HK....and been looking at Discovery Bay..." It seems to me know that from Disco bay, you have ended up in the outskirts of HK....It seems to me no one here has been honest with you.....Discovery Bay is considered to be the "outer-edges" of HK. Now that Mui Wo, Pui Wo, Tung Chung have been raised, well I would not even consider them to be HK at all. Consider them as a "quasi-state" of HK. 10 years ago, no one has ever heard of these places that have been recommended to you. You might as well "shack-up" in Shenzhen, China and commute to HK. In that case, you can easily live on 10K HKD pm. Your notion of leaving Australia because all you friends/relatives are in a "pause" mode is probably correct, but the same will be said for you if you move to anyone of these places that most of the people here have recommended. If I would say to you that I would be moving to "Australia", you would assume anywhere on the mainland of Australia and not some distantant island (Tasmania, Heard Island, etc, etc).....You are coming here to expand your circle...Moving to Mui, Pui Wo, etc, etc....is going backwards.....good luck
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With all due respect, regarding the comments made by both Xerxes and WonTonNom, I can see where both of them are coming from. I have friends who live in TC, and yes, it is very convenient for those working at the airport. However, I would guess that many stewardesses/pilots who live there are either single or couples with no children and choose to live in TC because it is so convenient for their work.
My friends who live there do not have children and say that if/when they have a family they will move back to the island. Most airline employees I know, who have families with children, tend to live in Sai Kung (but have the use of a car to get to work), or on HK Island, and do the commute, as life is far more convenient for the wife and kids who are left at home each day.
Some people are obviously very happy living in these areas ... others, friends of mine included, who have moved to HK with children, have ended up feeling very isolated and have eventually moved to HK island, or places with more of a 'community' feel, such as Sai Kung ... places where there's plenty for the children to do, convenient for shopping, hair salon visits, playdates with school friends for the kids, trips to immigration, etc ... these things might not be on top of your priority list to begin with, but believe me, after a few months, you may find certain aspects of living in places such as TC, just a bit inconvenient ... especially with two young children to have to take everywhere with you ....
That being said, only the OP knows what living conditions/areas will suit her family. Just look at as many places/areas as possible and think long and hard about all of the above before making any decisions. Good luck!
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cara, I don't dispute the fact that there are families in TC, or that DB is a haven for flight crews ... simply want to make sure that the OP hears about the disadvantages, as well as the advantages of living in various areas. What suits one doesn't necessarily suit all and there are many people who would hate the above areas. As I said, the OP needs to make up her own mind and can do that by taking into account different people's opinions and checking out the areas for themselves.
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Schools in and around Tung Chung where "English" is the medium - Lantau International School, DMK (Discovery Mind Kindergarden), Sunshine House, Greenfield (Caribbean Coast) and YMCA. In Discovery Bay there is Discovery College, Discovery Bay International School, DMK, Sunshine House and Montessori. Most people consider "international" schools to be the English schools and the "local/public" schools to be where Cantonese is the medium. I may have missed one or two, but I think that is it.
Tung Chung has certainly grown in recent years. I also know people who live in Mui Wo and love it. Both areas have "communities". The downside with Sai Kung is there is just one road in and one road out - which can make for some nasty traffic jams on the weekend. Every area has its pros and cons. I know lots of people who live on Lamma - my family never would - but who am I to judge. You can always move to Tung Chung for a year and once you hubby gets a raise and you know HK a little bit better, move to another spot. I remember when Tung Chung was a ghost town 7 years ago... it is far from that now with the mall, restaurants, pubs, etc. I think it is a fine place to start from - cheap rent, close to work for hubby and lots of amenities close by.
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The idea is to (obviously we won't know til we get there) stay put where we first end up for the first 1-2 years than make a decision to move as my hubby gets guaranteed payrises each year so we'll make do with what we've got for those first couple of years. We're still looking at Tung Chung, Discovery Bay, Park Island, Tsing Yi, Gold Coast & Surrounds but as I said earlier, we're pretty set on TC because it seems to be the most convenient all round & the cheaper option for us to start with. Only prob would be wherever our son gets into school. He wouldn't be starting primary until 2014 as he was born in Oct 2008. So we're hoping to move closer to whereever he gets into school.
We're coming at the end of July & we've got 4 days to check everything out so we'll get a rough idea of what it could be like.
Thanks "Canucker" for the school list, really appreciate this!
We welcome & appreciate all information - positives & negatives. Obviously every place is going to have them.
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I forgot to mention this is long term, we'll be in HK for at least 12 years.
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sharee,
just my opinion, but I don't think hong kong is a good place to raise children long term. Hong Kong is very interesting for a year or two, but then it gets old very quickly (unless you make big money). Unless you are making considerably more money than you otherwise could, why would you bring a 1 and 4 year old over here where the air is filthy, the water is contaminated and there is virtually no grass. There is really not much for kids to do in the outdoors. They wind up going crazy with their heads stuck in iphones at one of the 20,000 malls here.
I know this sounds negative, but this is no place to raise a child. It is a place to grab quick money and leave. Perhaps you have no better options, but if you do, I would think twice. Otherwise plan for a two year stay and have an exit strategy.
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Sharee,
Looking back through the thread, not sure whether or not you have been to Hong Kong at all? Or lived outside Australia for any period of time?
Hong Kong in August is unrelentingly hot and humid, so be prepared for that. My jogging days are long behind me, but I still remember listening to the radio every morning as I got dressed, 6 am, "the temperature is 28c and the humidity is 98%" - day after day after day.
You have a very different challenge to some of those who have posted comments, because of having a very young family. You will be leaving family, friends, and other support behind. You will go through some highs, and you will definitely have some lows, when you will wonder why on earth you came. It will be particularly tough on you, I gather that you will be a stay-at-home mum.
If you can get through the first six or nine months, you should be okay. However, setting a goal of 12 years, it sounds as though you can make it, but don't burn bridges (I am sure you are sensible enough not to) and allow for the possibility - remote I am sure - that it won't work out.
Working for CX used to put a strain on some marriages - lots of temptation, I am afraid to say.
You will need to make some friends, it sounds as though you already have some. If you need more, look around for volunteer work, think about joining a church or other social grouping.
Lots and lots of people have done this before, and made it work. I am sure you can, too.
Best wishes,
Woods.
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"unattendedbag" -
Thanks for your input, this is definitely a concern for me with our children & has played on my mind a few times over. The whole move to HK is a job opportunity for my husband, obviously not just a job opportunity for him but also an opportunity for us as a family - different culture, different experiences, etc.
My hubby will be making double the money if we move to HK & the longer he stays the more his pay goes up. Hence, the 12 years goal. Our goal is for him to become a captain through CX.
Thank you for taking the time to share your opinion & honesty, appreciate it.
"woods99" -
No I've never personally been to HK, it will be my first time at the end of this month.
I really appreciate the paragraph where you say "You have a different challenge..." because I know this is going to be my reality. I will need to learn to become very independant. I appreciate your encouragement, thank you.
I would definitely join a mothers group & get connected with a church somewhere. We've been looking into this also (mainly for my sanity). I know that I'm going to be the main support system that holds our family together so I will need people around me to talk with.
With my hubby working for CX & temptations, I assumed this would be the case for any pilot. Or any job, in any country. What it comes down to is trust & giving the benefit of the doubt. If I didn't trust him, I wouldn't have married him. My husband is a good man & when problems arise, we talk about them. So I have no concerns with temptations, they'll always be in our everyday lives.
In the end, we won't fully know until we're actually living in HK & experiencing it for ourselves.
For a great job opportunity, the move is definitely worth giving it a go!
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sharee2, contrary to what some might say, we came to HK for a better life ... mostly for our children. They have grown up here, they've had a fantastic education, experiences and opportunities that they could only have dreamed of had we stayed in the UK, they've made life-long friends from all over the world, their health has never been a problem apart from the usual childhood illnesses, there was always something for them to do ... they were certainly never bored ... swimming pools, beaches, clubs to join, ballet classes, football, rugby (HK has one of the largest mini rugby clubs ... your 4 year old could join now and it has a fantastic social side too for mum & dad!), and Hong Kong is one of the safest cities in the world. And, did someone mention 'no grass'? ... HK has HUGE country parks where families spend time hiking, having bbq's and picnics, etc. Kids can learn to sail and canoe . The list is endless. I appreciate that there is little in the way of green grass football pitches where kids can just be let loose to run around, but there's certainly no shortage of things to do!
My kids spent their primary and secondary school years here, went off to university (one graduated, one still there) and both of them don't want to leave HK.
Like you, we decided that we were coming for the long term. Strangely enough, we did visit HK for a few days on holiday when we lived elsewhere in Asia. At that time I said I had enjoyed the holiday but would never want to live in a place like HK ... and here we are many years later and loving it! ... So don't let first impressions put you off ... give it a go and see what happens ...
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it's all relative I guess....but when I think back at what I did as a kid (suburbs of Denver/rocky mountains) it makes me feel sorry for the kids here. We had grass fields throughout the neighborhood, we had grass in the backyard, we went swimming in pristine lakes (waterskiing, tubing etc), we rafted and fished in fresh water rivers, mountain biked through wooded trails, we snowmobiled, nordic and alpine skiied, we camped in the mountains and most importantly breathed fresh mountain air.
I guess it just depends where you are coming from, but when I see kids playing football in concrete cages, or sitting on a cramped train with a badminton racket, I always feel thankful that I grew up where I did and not here.
Kids should be allowed to be kids and having fun should be the priority. But it is extremely hard to be kids in this environment. Local schools/moms push the kids too hard, too early and they spend too much time indoors studying and not enough outside playing. Though as I said, there is limited things to do outdoors here.
Sorry for getting off on a tangent here sharee, anyway I was happy to here that your husband is doubling his salary and fast tracking his way to being a captain. Most people are here for just that reason. Money and career advancement.
Best of Luck. I am assuming you get free/or cheap airline travel through your husband? Go on lots of trips! Hong Kong is a great launching pad for many cheap/exciting asian adventures.
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unattendedbag - when you describe it like that, I feel so sad. You're right, having a "normal" Australian/American/Kiwi childhood is not possible here. But life is about choices. If we choose to live in HK, then we are choosing not to live somewhere else and we have to look for and enjoy the advantages of living here.
I've been here for 9 years and love it, but my son was in his late teens when we came together, and both of us would love to live here forever, much to my surprise.
The activities/pastimes that you enjoyed as a child can be built into holidays. If they are important to sharee2 and her family, then they most definitely should make them a priority when on holiday.
Sharee2 - if you do spend 12 years here, your boys will become third culture kids. It would be a good idea to do some research on that now so that you can help and guide them. Being a third culture kid is not a bad thing, but some young people don't find it easy. And I've not heard about third culture adults, but that's what I've become after living overseas for most of my adult life. I wouldn't have it any other way, but in many ways I do not fit in "back home". My siblings tell me they can’t quite understand where I’m coming from in terms of my – well it’s hard to find the right word/s – culture/mindset/frame of reference.
Hong Kong is a great place to be - encourage your family and friends to visit you here. That will help them to understand your life and the changes that will take place in you and your family because of this different life you are living.
I've often said I wouldn't like to raise young children here. The air pollution, dirty beaches, pace of life and questionable fresh foods are some of the reasons for that. However, apart from pollution, these things can be overcome. I buy imported fresh/frozen foods because I am wary of Chinese raised/grown foods. If I had small children, I would definitely want to do this. And I've changed my mind about raising small children here - well, I've come to accept that it's inevitable for some families since my son is married and will raise my grandbabies here. :)
And I have lots of local HK friends who have no choice and they are doing a great job with their little ones.
The non-(insert your nationality here) way of life is not wrong, it's just different.
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Hi Sharee2,
My hubby also works for CX! We live in Tung Chung! Rent in TC is ( as people have said ) much cheaper then DB. I work in DB - the commute is easy on the bus & its not too far away! There are plenty of expat mums here in TC too...
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this thread is really becoming "tiring".....there are more interesting and serious topics to cover. we are making it sound as if "Sharee2" and her family are the first ever Pilgrims arriving in HK. Sharee2 is also leaving Australia for other reasons - to escape what she considers....."life is on pause" back home.......Continuing with this trivial thread will put our lives in HK on pause...
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Xerxes, if you are finding this thread 'tiring' you do not have to waste your precious time looking at it, or commenting on it. I'm sure the OP finds most of this thread very helpful and informative, especially as her family will be moving to a place completely unknown to them. I certainly would want to find out as much information as possible, and indeed I did when I was in that position, regardless that others who already 'know it all' may find the information 'tiring'. I suggest you search for, and comment on, threads where you might actually be of help to someone in the future ...
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When I moved to Hong Kong, there was absolutely nothing like this sort of resource available. In fact, I had never even been to Asia, I was interviewed in Australia and then offered the job a few weeks later. I found it very difficult to settle in.
I am interested in these threads, and I try to contibute some advice where I can to help people, because I remember how much I did not know.
It's a (relatively) free world, anybody who is not interested in a thread like this should use their brains and just ignore it.
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I believe Sharee's concerns were answered 30 threads ago. Now the topic has deviated into something else. her question was "would her husbands salary be enough"........If this hasnt been answered after 18 days of her posting ( i believe Cara and Ed has answered this 18 days ago), then what is all the rambling about? Nothing else to do people?
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And while Sheree's original question may have been answered days ago, it doesn't hurt to share a few more tidbits to help make her move easier. We just met another pilot who interviewed this week with CX. We were discussing the "benefits" CX gives its pilots, but this pilot was unaware the housing and education allowances are taxable. Now he knows. And can plan his spending/saving a little bit differently now. We were all new to HK once before. I appreciated the advice some HK veterans gave us once we arrived.
For the record - we are raising two young kids here. While they might not have the amazing open space they'd get in Canada, they have friends from all over the world, travel Asia with us when friends back home go to "the cabin" for the summer, are learning Mandarin and French, love exploring the various wet/alley markets, go hiking all over HK, etc. They are getting one heck of an education in one amazing city. And yes, we have IQ air purifiers.
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great. i can sleep better now.
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If it's 12 years, you may want to consider local schools. Your kids are young enough to learn Chinese and they will get all the English they need at home. English is also a heavily-weighted subject at local schools, so they will have some advantage though work pressure is tough. Then your kids will have a genuine hometown instead of not being able to speak the language of the town they have grown up in.
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eazygo, if you have read the above posts you should already have some idea of the answers to your questions, otherwise be a little more specific ... assuming your question is for real ... and I'm assuming it's not as you've written a load of crap on many other threads ....
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Thanks everyone for your comments, advice & happily answering my questions. I do really appreciate it. Thank you! If there's anything else I should know please continue to share as I'm sure there are others in a similar siutation to myself reading this.
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