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190k
14 yrs ago
Don't you have insurance? My dofg insurance has $1m third party liability
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She will only be able to take you to the small claims court. I doubt she will be able to claim for all the crazy symptoms she is suffering from. How can she prove she couldn't walk properly or hyperventilate before (unless she had a full medical workup) or suffered from stress/fear previously. Generally, she will only be able to claim for reasonable medical bills. Going to London to see a doctor is absurd and unreasonable. I think you may have to pay the 3500 for a private hospital in HK but nothing more (unless she needed to take time off work for her injuries).
Why did your dog bite her? Did she approach the dog without permission or threaten the dog or helper? If your dog has never had any history of this behaviour, I suspect something may have happened as a trigger.
I wonder if greed is a medical ailment. Unfortunately, pest control don't deal with parasites like this lady ;-)
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I agree with Maverick. Dont lose any sleep over it. Offer her the 3500 in writing, make sure you can prove that you offered that amount to her and that's it.
If she wants more, let her take you to the SCT if she wants to. she wont get far...
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To be honest, I wouldn't give in to her demands. Does she even have proof that YOUR dog injured her e.g. photos? Were there any witnesses? If she hit or provoked the dog, she could be charged with animal abuse. Obviously, be careful what you put in writing as that could end up being used against you. I wouldn't waste extra money on a lawyer but you often need to counter-claim against her. You can argue that you have had to stop work to go to court etc and she refused your reasonable offer.
In the SCC, they will probably only expect you to pay the reasonable medical fees. People always try to claim for more but don't often get it. What I have found though is that even if the court awards her 3500 from you and later on, you don't bother to pay her, there's not a lot she can do as even with bailiffs, it will end up costing her more in the long run to try and recoup such a small amount.
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You weren't there, your helper was, you did nothing wrong.
A lawyer friend told me that, contrary to the tv shows, 90% of lawyers have never been to court! They just send letters and draft memos. I think she's a bit mentally unstable from your report so I think nothing you do will make her feel satisfied, you should just say you're sorry your helper didn't control you dog better, but that's nothing you can do and she should leave you alone unless she has a claim for small claims court.
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My miniature dachshund growled at a woman on the beach. She called the police and an ambulance, plus gave me an ear full! The police came down, checked out the situation, woman went off in the ambulance. AFCD rang me up to check on rabies shot. End result was nothing happened, mind you no biting was involved. Some wacky people out there.
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Why don't you simply ask the helper what happened, as surely in any court case she will be primary witness?
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Exactly the same thing happened to me and my dog! Except that my dog was a German Shepherd! DON"T PANIC!!!!! That stupid woman cannot do anything to get money from you even if she takes it to court! I had a lawyer to help me at the time. My dog didn't even have to go to the AFCD! Just because she reported it to the police, it doesn't mean your dog bit her! At the time of the incident she should've called an ambulance and gone to the hospital to get a DNA sample of the bite, going to a private clinic can only prove that she was bitten by a dog, but not YOUR DOG! u need to save your doggy! i'm sure your dog was frightened by that nasty woman, and then jumped at her, but i don't think your dog BIT her, right?! My incident happened way back in April, and nothing has happened! The stupid woman wanted compensation and all that, and she's got nothing! If u need legal advice, I can give u my lawywer's number. He didn't charge me anything! Good luck with it all!
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I would have thought that as you were the owner of the dog at the time of the incident, you are the one who is liable. If you crash your car then sell it, surely the new owner wouldn't be the one who is prosecuted.
Also, it's neither here nor there that your dog has no history of biting or attacking; the fact of the matter is that he bit this lady.
I wouldn't stress too much more over this if I were you. I very much doubt you will get sued for anything. I think this "victim" is just trying it on.
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Nuri
14 yrs ago
DggyDog, it is an unfortunate event for you, no doubts. However, the lady is THE victim, not "victim". No matter how you put it.
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maxis
14 yrs ago
She claims:
I will forever have a disfigured leg
I will continue to have a limp
Psychologically I can no longer walk down my street (or any other street for that matter) without fearing another attack
I can no longer stop hyperventilating when I encounter another dog
I cannot stop worrying about what your dog might do to others - in particular my children - who are vulnerable to attack
I can tell you for certain that if the above was true, in particular permanent damage by way of a limp, then she is getting very bad advice is she wants to settle for HKD12,000!
Any proper compensation award would be many times greater than that.
She sounds like a nasty and opportunistic complete dog-hater.
She probably is just an employed HK qualified solicitor in a typical mediocre HK practice – these outfits exist by the dozen (dozens of dozens) in HK. I wouldn’t at all fear her being on the HK Solicitors’ Role. Actually, her level of duty to the court is much higher than a non-solicitor, and should she be found to be lying or misleading, she is also exposed to a professional misconduct charge.
How do you know she is a solicitor? Did she say so? If so, was there an implication that by her being a solicitor that she was in a position of advantage over you (a) by having greater resources than you (b) more knowledge of the law (c) association with solicitors who would be prepared to assist in prosecuting you (d) mention her firm/employer at all (e) give you her business card?
If “yes” to any of the above, there are ground for complaint to HK Law Society, which would be most likely to result in issuance in a “letter of disapproval” due to misuse of position, in particular if she doesn’t even practice personal injury law or litigation (which is certainly possible). Also, any outcome the Investigation Committee cannot be used in any subsequent litigation anyhow. If they were particularly afronted by her actions, she may may be censured, which is not really as good to have on one's CV as being a volunteer at HK Doggy rescue.
If it was me, this is what I would do:
1. get back in touch with my HK solicitor, and pay the settlement figure she has asked for. Get this all competed properly so she has no further recourse.
2. write to Lawsoc complaining about her misuse of title as a HK Solicitor in order to extort money (HK12,000) for minor negligible non-permanent injuries whilst alleging damage which would have resulted in many many more time that amount in compensation if true. If she ever mentioned her firm name at all, I’d include that in my complaint. It is quite apparent it is an exaggerated claim, by her own admission as to the level of compensation requested. Lawsoc do not like its members utilising their position for advantage, and certainly what appears tantamount to extortion.
But MAKE SURE you get a without prejudice settlement squared away. By the sounds of it, she has already offered you that anyhow.
You never know what a HK court will award or not, and it can be hit and miss, and you don’t know what rubbish she may make up. People like her, these self indulgent princesses with such a strong sense of entitlement, can get really nasty, and may try and take it out by trying to have your dog put down. Although any such application is unlikely to be successful, it would be very stressful.
Anyhow, for such a small and nice dog to be even in a position to bite her, she must have got in his personal space and startled him. Most likely she was tai-tai-ing along the street, thinking of the next handbag she was going to get, and not looking out for other people and induced the alleged “attack”.
Unfortunately these opportunistic people are dime a dozen in HK.
I would settle it, then cause her some grief. Your solicitor probably will recommend against a complaint being mad to LawSoc, but up to you.
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190k
14 yrs ago
And the other moral is to get dog insurance with 3rd party liability
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DoggyDog, I thought your helper was walking your dog. How do you know what this woman looked like?
I don't think by definition you can call her a tai-tai.
Don't assume she's working for a family run business if the law firm she works for is in Exchange Square just because the big cheese on the website has the same surname.
I don't think your good lawyer who then referred you to a good PI lawyer would appreciate you calling them "dirty" after they did you a favour and gave you free legal advice.
Reporting it to the Law Society is a waste of time. She's done nothing illegal and after all your dog did bite her.
If I were you, I'd pay up and just forget about the incident and move on.
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vak
14 yrs ago
janeymacca the person bitten by the dog is a SHE not a HE.
I was once bullied by a very large law firm for what I thought was a frivlous lawsuit on their part. It involved a case in which we were given poor and incomplete advice and the case was given to trainee lawyers. In the end we were given a 200000 bill for legal expenses while making a claim of 150000 against a 3rd party. The 3rd party claimed bankruptcy and refused to pay even though we won the case.
On advice from a lawyer friend I eventually threatened them with a complaint to the Law Society about abuse of position and lack of professional advice. . I got a phone call from a senior partner within 2 hours who simply said ''lets say you owe us 30000 hkd and we call it quits''.
Litigation in HK is becoming Americanised.
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Something I learned a long time ago.
A lawyers letter is not worth the paper it is written on.
Lawyers make money by corresponding with each other and billing the client. Every time they reply on your behalf the bill goes up.
You don't need to enter into any correspondence. Wait for a summons to the small claims court.
You could always counter claim that your dog was distressed and made to vomit after the incident. Only joking.
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You can counter-claim! Seriously! Go and see a doctor, and tell the doc that the woman caused u stress, and now u are afraid to walk your dog, or tremble when u see a woman on the streets! like i said before, something similar happened to me, but luckily, i got a doctor's note, and so i was able to counter-sue. after that, i wasn't bothered by anyone. if u still need a lawyer, i can get u in touch with one. the lawyer is "cheung mo's (long-hair's) lawyer. he is crazy, and will help u without doubt.
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There are too many dogs in Hong Kong in my opinion and too few of them are insured. Not insuring your dog is sociably irresponsible and personally risky. If you class yourself as a responsible dog owner you should have at least 3rd party insurance. The most expensive insurance policy is certain to be the one you don’t have!
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Dogs should be put to sleep after they bite humans, at least forced to wear a mask in public. What happens if it attacks a child next time?
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I think these last posts were wind ups, better not to give them the satisfaction of a response.
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maxis
14 yrs ago
If this woman was serious about her claim, she would be asking for much more money.
If she is asserting any advantage or standover to doggydog by being a solicitor, she is not too smart. This can really bite her in the a*se harder than doggydog’s dog may have nipped her.
Inkpot88 - FYI, I personally had a complaint made about me to LawSoc. by someone. Even though transparently vexatious, for such matters, the burden is upon the accused to explain one’s self. It was not a nice experience. Perhaps you have more first hand experience/knowledge?
Anyhow, I’d like to know what she did to the dog to cause her to be bitten. Dogs don’t bite for no reason. As suggested above, dogs have instincts that humans don’t, and probably knew the fabric of this woman.
Again, she must have done something or encroached in the dog’s space or made some random tai-tai gesture the way they flutter their hands like a lunatic when trying to hail a cab.
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"Dogs don't bite for no reason"
Actually yes they do, they've also killed for no reason as well with more than 5 children killed on average each year in UK and 28,000 reporting facial bites. I had to protect one of my kids last year who was doing nothing more than walking in the street holding my hand. But someone will try and convince me we were in the wrong just for doing that. Seriously people need to accept responsibility and stop trying to blame everyone else. It just doesn't wash.
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My helper got bitten by a dog when trying to save my 2yr old. My son is afraid of dogs. When he saw a big dog trying to sniff him, he started to run. Then the dog attacked him. Fortunately my helper was brave, she picked up the baby right away, and turned her back to the dog. The dog bite her leg and caused bleeding. Although the dog was leashed, but the woman (another helper) holding the leash is too small to control it.
I made sure the dog was put down and my helper was compensated. The dog owner end up moving out of the building and went back to NZ. Believe or not, they left their other pets at HKDR.
The point is: although dogs are human's best friends, but they are not human.
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As a dog owner myself (but not in HK, two dogs are with my family back home) I'll chime in with evildeeds....dogs do bite for no reason.....I've been bitten by my own dog for no good reason, so I do think it is irresponsible to say that this lady 'brought it on herself'.
btw mrshsu sorry to hear about your helper and son, I would have been incensed if some dog tried to attack my child!!!!!
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Im my province in Canada they put dogs down if they bite a human being. the danger is to children as well as to adults. i think the lady is taking advantage ot the situation to be sure. But your irresponsibility as a dog owner is pure negligence. If your dog bit my daughter, which is entirely possible as it has doe it before I'd sue the a** off you. Put you dog down for the safely of children. Children are more important than animals..don't you know?
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dog haters should not post anything here, coz it's not helpful! u're just causing more stress for the guy with all your stupid opinions! there are reasons to everything, so that's why dogs bite! it's called cause and effect! duh! and no...dogs cannot be put down in HK for biting! i've checked with a lawyer and the AFCD already!
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No it is not why dogs bite. Dogs are wild animals, plain and simple.
Look at people.There are mentally handicapped people, there are people who suffer from mental illnesses, people who are schizophrenic, people with chemical imbalances in the brain, people who suffer panic attacks, people who suffer from psychotic episodes.
And here's the rub. ALL mammals have these traits too. Think about it before making statements that have no basis.
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Doggydog, I think you gave in too easily on this one. This lady was wronged and you are liable for your pets actions. However, there are limits on compensation and limits to medical/rehab expenses... It sounds like two bitches (your dog is female right?) had been involved in this unfortunate incident and there are responsibilities you must take as the owner (looks like you have and I commend you for that) and compensation that the other bitch is entitled to because she was a victim. However, the courts will limit the amount compensated to the victim because she has required excessive treatment for her minor injuries (I'm assuming there was no disfigurement and all her limbs are still in place? hehe ). I have been in vehicle accidents and I would love to fly to all the top medical establishments in the world to get the best treatment/opinions from them and have it paid off by a 3rd party..... but, it won't happen. Was the damage caused excessive? I would base it on the amount of damage caused and if it was minor than there is no way the courts will allow her to charge you for medical expenses in another country if the incident didn't happen there.
You posted a sample of a similar case to yours.... but, that doesn't mean she will get any judgements similar to the that case. Each case is different and I'm sure you can find another case where it was dismissed. I would look into various hospitals and take an average of what they would have charged and offer that to her (possibly slightly higher than the average). Than wait.... and go to court. Yes, the judge will favor on her side because she was a victim (and the courts would be right), but here is where you would win..... When the courts grant her an amount to compensate her, if this amount is equal to or less than the amount you offered than she should be required to pay for your legal expenses because her case was unnecessary.
I can't remember the legal term for this, but I had a similar situation in a court case.... I was offered a pretty high amount for compensation and my lawyer advised me to take it and I didn't. My lawyer told me that I would be responsible for the defendants legal expenses if the courts ruling was equal to or less than the amount they offered to settle for. There is no way that she would be allowed to include a trip to London for medical expenses.
One last thing, you mentioned that she lived close to you.... I would have your mobile video cam set up and ready to film her every chance you get. Lets see if she walks across the street like she is in dire straits ...if you can get a glimpse of her walking without a limp, walking with a smile, (wait for summer) walking with a skirt that would show her legs, etc... You would be surprised at how powerful a short video could be, all the courts in N. America allow the use of film footage to be used in cases like this.
I think that you had taken necessary precautions with having your dog on a leash (muzzle isn't required because there was no history of biting) and you should be a little more weary next time you walk your dog, but and a big BUT.... I HATE people like her who try and take advantage of others.
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Do you really need to employ a lawyer to defend yourself? Can't you just turn up in court and tell the judge what happened. Go to a doctor's in Prince's Building - where you can get top level treatment - and ask the doctors there how much treatment a 'reasonable person' would need for a dog bite. Tot it up and present it to the judge. You can also show that you have made her a previous reasonable offer of compensation.
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Don't forget, this isn't the US, compensation will be very limited. I would also follow up on the suggestion that you complain to the Law Society about her actions. That will put the wind up - along with the possibility of losing a case to a dog-owner acting on his own behalf. LOL.
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I would get in the car and run her over.
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vak
13 yrs ago
I guess it is a reminder for pet owners as to what can go wrong. Specially those with big dogs. We own a small dog and stopped taking him for walks due to IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS with larger dogs letting their pets roam freely on village tracks. Last week we along with our little pup were being followed by 2 dogs over 25 kgs each and both with collars. No other human in sight except a local woman who kept telling the dogs off and every now and again after which they would go to her and sit down. Finally I lost my cool and told her that it was illegal to have such large dogs out without a leash on public roads specially when she herself was a very small build and would be unable to control even one of them in case of an emergency. She just walked off saying they were not hers and suddenly she lost her ability to speak English. The 2 dogs promptly followed her and we could never find out if they were actually hers or not. I wonder what is a real case scenario if in such circumstances a large (unleashed) dog was to attack a smaller pet or its owners. While a human can get relatively free emergency care in a govt hospital a pet would certainly cost a lot more. If my pet were to bite someone in a public place whether provoked or unprovoked I would certainly bear responsibility. I feel people with big dogs need to realise that pets can be unpredictable and if you choose to let them roam freely in a public place you bear the consequences. Its a shame the open place near causewaybay for pet walks had to close down but a place like that is ideal for large dog owners to let them roam unleashed.
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Oh the old "Its not my dog" number!
Yep, had a neighbour who wouldnt get his dog (female) fixed...so every few months there would be the whimper of a litter of puppies and my son would go over there and play with the pups. Then a week later, there would be no pups.
I found out he would drown them in a tub of water, ever single time his dog had more puppies, which was often!
Finally at some point the dog got into a fight and got an infection somewhere in and around her ear. I kept telling him, "Dude, your dog has an ear practically hanging off and I can smell her from my back yard! Please get her to a vet"
Which he never did.
Finally I saw the dog moping about up front the house...I could smell her before seeing her...and when I went over to check on the poor thing...there were maggots crawling about in the wound!!! WTF???
So I called the SPCA who either came over or sent animal control, they came over and you know what the neighbour said? "Thats not my dog"
*SMH*
Like, sure, he fed it, his kid played with it, it lived out their house for years, he'd killed its puppies for years...but when the big guns come, its just some random stray?
Some folks just do not deserve to have dogs.
That dog was taken away and most likely put down. Sad. Next time I saw my neighbour he was all chummy with me as if nothing had happened! Like I had not called animal control on him! Sheezus!
Anyway...to OP, you made the right decision to pay the woman. 12K is peanuts in the great scheme of things. Lawyers, courts, that stuff all adds up, and as you said, it could have been 5 times as much! You got off easy, look at this as an omen prompting you to get doggie insurance. Regardless of what happened to make your dog sketch that day, he did bite someone...not a nice thing to happen. She did, to be honest, have a right to be mad (literally or otherwise) about it. You were lucky the doggie didnt break the skin on her leg, just a bruise, but if I was bitten, small dog or big, I would have been pretty fearful of dogs.
Lucky for me I only ever got bitten by a puppy, but since it broke the skin and it was back in the 80's, I ended up having to get those horrendous rabies shots in the belly! 14 of them! *SMH* one a day for 2 weeks, dayum things itched and hurt so bad, I wished the dog had just killed me!
So yep, I am super cautious around rambunctious puppies. Big and small adult dogs are cool by me!
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If ACFD and the police are not pressing charges, you pretty much have nothing to worry about. From recent press articles, even if the AFCD did press charges, you're likey to get off scott free unless there is absolute proof that the dog was yours and not a stray....or some such nonsense. Even if you happen to be walking over 20 dogs at the time unleashed and unmuzzled. Just ask the woman from HKDR.
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All.... I have a lovely little Yorkshire Terrier and have been feeding him Cesar for Six months. Last week he choked after a carton from Welcome in CWB. He nearly choked to death and died and upon examining the Cesar dog food, we found two large stones which caused the choking. Beware. I have stopped feeding him Cesar and changed to a Japanese brand. Cesar have not responded to my concerns.
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OMG - This is terrible, do you still have the two large stones ? Hope you took pictures and something next to them to give an idea of scale.
We should warn other people who buy this brand of dog food.
Thanks for posting !
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How did you find the stones if he choked on them ?
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Large food companies get 1000's of claims like this from hopeful and fraudulent tricksters, cockroach in soup, mouse in KFC etc. etc. They have a policy and a series of actions for dealing with such claims and the first is ignoring you. You may be genuine but the hoaxers and cheats spoil things for all as usual.
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I just got bitten by my neighbours dog. It stuck it's head thru the fence, and had a go at my leg.(The entrance to my home is adjacent to the fence. )It has always been agressive, and it nipped the old guy that lives beside me 2 days ago. So, both of us have been to the Hospital for tetnus shots in the past few days.
I am doing everything possible to have the dog removed, as I refuse to live in fear of being attacked again. I will hand the guy a demand for costs, and if he doesn't comply, I will go through small claims, and you can bet there will besh*t like, "fear of dogs", and "cant sleep" along with, "unable to faher children again".
My goal is to teach people lessons in life, that they are too stupid to learn by themselves.
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Remmy
13 yrs ago
Actually no, dogs are, inherently, anything but evil. Its, people who mistreat dogs who are evil, and their treatment in turn can unfortunately create aggressive/defensive dogs.
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Cats are evil and dogs are just smelly then. ok.
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Cats are evil and dogs are just smelly then. ok.
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Cats are evil and dogs are just smelly then. ok.
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