Posted by
Katetam
18 yrs ago
Coming from a super traditional family about CNY, this is what I know:
The tradition is:
You give red packets to show your wealth, and generousity, and also for good luck.
You give red packets if you are already married. (vice versa, if you are already married, you don't expect to receive any red packets)
Any red packets you give, you are supposed to give in a pair. (one representing yourself, one is your partner's) So, if you put in $ 20 in one, then you are giving out $ 40 if in a pair.
You give to those who are of the younger generation to you. Like your niece, nephews, friend's children.... basically, you wouldn't be giving to your friends, or uncles or aunts, or cousins of the same rank ( I do, if they are still single)... hope you know what I mean.
We also give red packets to employees, and DH. If you are a business owner, you will give "start work" lai see.
We also give red packets to the management of our estate, the garbage lady, restaurant's staff (restaurants that we frequently go to).
But these latter are just modern day practice now. How much ? It depends too. How important is this person to you ? For example, we give the receptionist of our favorite restaurant, 1 red packet (b/c it's like a work lai see, not family related)..... $ 100 in one packet. The packet is usually of special design so she remembers us. Guess what, for the rest of the year, we get our table quite quickly each time we arrive.
We also calculate such: If my friend has 3 kids, and I have 2, then I put in $ 50x2, (three sets). That's $300 . B/c I know she will give my kids
$ 50x2 (2 sets) that would be $ 200 from her. That way, I don't OWE her anything, but she owes me.
General rule- don't give red packets with coins in it. It's an insult.
How much you give is entirely up to you, you can even pretend you don't know about this tradition.
It is VERY costly !!!!
But to be honest, unless you are a traditional chinese family (by physical looks I mean).... people won't really judge you even if you DID not give out red packets. It really adds up you know.... we seriously think we should head out of town each year during CNY and come back after 2 weeks. After first 2 weeks of CNY, you don't have to hand out red packets anymore.
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Is there any particular rule as to the amount given in terms of lucky/unlucky numbers? For example, to give $50 instead of $40? Also, do the bills have to be new?
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cd
18 yrs ago
To Pumpkin,
I disagree, neither me or my husband give out red packets. We are not Chinese and it is not a festival we really celebrate. Why should we be expected to give people we don't know money because its something they celebrate, do they give us gifts at christmas? No.
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Not a fair comparison. You give your mailman a tip/gift at Christmas regardless of whether you know their religious preference or not, right? Simply because in the country you are in, it's a predominantly celebrated holiday. And does the mailman gift you?
No.
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I also disagree that Expats are EXPECTED to give lai see. Most of the expats I know, and even if the wife is chinese, but the husband isn't, the family doesn't even practice this tradition.
Just like many families in HK do not celebrate Christmas necessarily, even though the entire HK is festive about Christmas.... it doesn't mean you are obligated to give Christmas presents. It's entirely up to you.
I personally wish CNY's Lai See thing would slowly become like Mooncakes.... the younger generation will start FORGETTING and start DIMINISHING its importance. We spend TOO much on CNY to give out Lai See and all the traditional cakes/pudding to hand out and candies and to visit friends and relatives....etc.
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I am a HK born Chinese but lived almost all 40 years of my life in England. I have only been back here a year, from the start of the last CNY. I am pretty up on these cross cultural problems. I am practically a living one myself. My family is local but all the people I work with and hang out with are non-locals. From what I can gather, Expats are NOT expected to give red packets and don't expect to recieve any. Unless you are really in with the local crowd. I know a lady who's been here 38 years and she does. She's more Chinese than most of the locals.
The Chinese won't be offended. I don't think they care enough about you to be offended. Foreigners are generally filtered out of their consciousness anyway. There are, very broadly speaking, 2 lots of HK Chinses, those who are Westernized and those who are less so (I am asking for it with this generalization but I am purposedly simplifying the issues). The former understands and probably are the ones, I suspect, who escape on holidays during the offending period; the latter doesn't care what you do coz you guys are gwai-lo and are completely mystifying to them anyway. I am sure many here would disagree with me but it's how I see it.
Don't loose any sleep over the issue. If you were to look into the historical origins and purpose of this custom, the same as all other ethnic customs, it has changed so much it now bears no resemblence to its roots.
Give a New Year Card instead. (And who's heard of a New Year card 20 years ago in HK?) Go to Hallmark or Pageone and it will probably cost you more but it involves less headaches, faux pas and the strange looks when you get it wrong.
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cd
18 yrs ago
To Donnialda, no I don't tip my postman at christmas.christmas is for celebrating with families and friends not the postman.
And to Pumpkin the point is that I shouldn't be expected to do something that I don't celebrate and is not part of my culture just because I'm an expat. I get fed up with the attitude that all Gweilos are rich therefore can afford it, whats a couple of thousand dollars to them anyway.
But if I did give out lai see, I would be like sinogie, it would go to the lady that takes away our rubbish each day, not to the shopkeeper who actually asked me for one last year because I happened to walk into her shop. or to the kids who moan when its a small amount.
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TC
18 yrs ago
I'm an expat, and to a certain extent I think people DO expect me to give a lai see IF they are of the sort of relationship that would get one from anyone else. For example my personal favourite concierges and drivers (the ones I talk to every time I see them, and the ones who help my wife when she's struggling with the pusher and the shopping) at the place where I live, the unmarried younger people at work, and the children at church - locals all of them. Why do I do it? Because it makes me feel good when I see the appreciation/joy in their eyes.
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Pumpkin, of course you can give a lai see as an expat, and people will gladly take it from an expat if you offer to give it. My point is, if you are an expat, and you DON'T want to give Lai see during CNY, it's perfectly acceptable and most likely expected from locals and other expats.
My point is, as a chinese, if we DO NOT give Lai see, we get talked behind our backs. As a NON chinese, you don't give a lai see, you won't get bad words behind your back.
BTW, if you want to take opportunity to smooth out relationships, or buy anybody's "heart"... you don't have to wait for CNY in HK. Anytime is a good time, and it would be welcomed anytime too.
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The easiest way as an expat to fit in a Chinese work environment is to participate in CNY and lai see. It is very important for the local people.
It is a Chinese tradition, yes, but when in Rome and all.
Last year I gave the 14 junior staff $50 each and for the 2 senior staff $100 each.
Forget all the married/single stuff for work, if you are paid more than the other staff and more senior in the structure then you pay those below you.
The Chinese staff will gossip as to who got what so make it fair, reasonable and do it with a smile.
They will not necessarily hold it against you, but it will count in the way they perceive you.
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If you are talking about giving out lai see in the "work" environment, then you follow the pay or not pay scheme according to "senority". However, married or not married, I was referring to our traditional practice outside the "office".
Like I said, employers will tend to give employees or those "under" your supervision, a "start work" lai see for good luck, and hope for GOOD work and business for the year.
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Taps
18 yrs ago
Hubby changed a few thousand last year, it seemed they are expected to give out the red pocket to whoever approached them in the company, it is huge one with thousands of employees.
Inside the pocket are fiver and tenner, a few hundred each for his subordinates.
He had a major headache last year, but so are the other Japanese in his company.
Are we expected to give some to the management staff who have been so nice and helpful to us. What about the guards who open the gate for me,
how much shall I give them.
What about the housing agent who is equally helpful, how much to give.
At least so I can show my gratitude, and hey, I am in China at the moment.
Might as well join the fun,I remember recieving new bills from my godparents during Christmas or New Year, it was fun whatever the amount was.
It was the thought...
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Acceptable is $ 20. It's nothing impressive, but you gave the lai see, and will be remembered as you DID give out.
A little better is $ 50. The guards, doorman, "service" people..... will remember your name.
$ 100 to those who you require them to provide you extra, and favors... like the restaurant's receptionist, your kid's school/tutor center's staff...etc.
That's about my guidelines.
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Is it OK to give two $20's even though that adds up to 40? Since I am married, don't I have to put two bills in each packet?
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It's definitely OK to give TWO packets of $ 20. Most people do that (if you are married.)
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Thanks--never thought of that
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Katetam,
When you said "your kid's, school", is that refer to teacher(s)?
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no, not to teachers. That's inappropriate.
I would to people like the cleaning lady who knows me by name at her school, she helps my daughter put her jacket on sometimes, her shoes...etc. And the lady in the washroom of her school, and the security door person at her school, the receptionist at her learning center...etc. But NOT teachers, and not EVERY staff at the tutor/music/leanring center/school. Just those who I know takes care of my child sometimes, and those who knows me by name b/c we chat sometimes...etc.
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I think the red packets are a very generous & neighbourly tradition, something that seems to get lost in this me me me world. Christmas presents seems such an insular tradition by comparison.
How is the best way to actually give them out - 2 hands? are we expected to say anything, make a big deal of it or do it lightly. If you hand one to some one are you meant to give to everyone in the vicinity.....could some one give me a step by step!
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cam33
18 yrs ago
Sandpiper...If I recall correctly, someone told me last year that you hand with two hands and you say something like "Kung Hei Fat Choy"...which I think means Happy New Year in Chinese. I always did it discreetly ie. did not make a big deal of it.
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Discretely, and the person who received the red packet usually says the good wishes to you. "Gung Hei Fat Choy" means wish you get rich. "Sun neen fai lok" is Happy New Year. "Sun Tai Kin Hong" wish you good health.
Any one of these says will be sufficient and good.
Gung Hei Fat Choy is easiest I guess.
one hand, or two hands... not that "noticeable" anymore..... it's a casual tradition, and discretely is best. Among our chinese traditions at home, we have to wear red clothes, pour tea, and say all the good wishes before we receive with two hands from our parents, or grandparents, uncles and aunts ... the red packets.
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