Buying used items on Asia expat - proof of ID

I've bought items on Asia expat classified section before, mostly used furniture or electronics. Often, I pickup from the seller's apartment andpaid in cash. I've never asked for a gaurantee or ask to see theseller's ID since there is no need.

Recently, I tried to buy a used video game on the classified section. The price is not too high, but not a peanut either, $1200. The seller claimed the quality is excellent, and wanted to meet at a ferry terminal for exchange. Since I don't know if the video game will work or not, I asked if I can see the seller's ID when doing the exchange since I cannot check the quality of the product and seeing an ID at least give me a piece of mind. Well, the person just jumped, saying that it's absolutely illegal torequest another person's ID, that he is aBritish person andnever carries HKIDwith him and will only present it when asked by police. Also,even to ask for seeing his ID is illegal thatif I "would like to see a lawyer or police to explain to me." At last, if Ihave such "qualms" about spending such peanut amount of money I should not use asia expat site.

Boy, didn't I get an ear full. Even if he is correct about asking for seeing an ID being illegal (which Ihave to chek),a simple "no" could just be enough. I'm not sure if the person just havesome kind of superiority complex or he is actual a scammer tryingto hide his identity.

I also checked online about carrying HKID, it is actually required by HK law for anybody above 15to carry an ID or passport.

Wondering what are other expats' experience in buying used items. If it's something that you can't check the quality when buying and it's exchanged at a public location where you can't track the person's whereabout later on, would you ask for some kind of proof of ID?

As the seller in question,

I'd like to point out a few facts of law to HABIBIONFNYC, the original poster and author of this ludicrous enquiry:

It is illegal in Hong Kong for any person other than a government authorised person or institution to request that an individual show/present their ID card to them. Further having sold and brought goods on Asia Expat for more than 8 years, mostly computer and electronics, not once have I ever encountered any person requesting that the "seller" or "buyer" produce an ID card to enable a transaction.

Indeed, should anyone ask this of me I politely tell them the actual legality of it and instruct them to "bugger off", which is what I did in this instance.

Should the "buyer" have any concerns they can contact the staff at Asia Expat, I've done this myself and had scammers removed from the site for selling stolen or fraudulent goods.

It is apparent that the "buyer", namely the poster has little idea of purchasing "used goods", never mind their actual legal standing.

Perhaps next time they make enquiries perhaps they could do it via a qualified solicitor, we can then exchange contracts and add several stipulations, obviously incurring huge legal fees.

It is not only illegal to request that a person present their ID card, but absolutely rude to say the least, particularly to a British person used to not having to hold such materials on them in their own country.

I'll leave it there, but many thanks to CARA for qualifying that it is the "seller" who's actually in the right and not the person demanding a "seller" produce an ID card before an exchange can take place, which as I politely pointed out by SMS text message is ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess HABIBOFNYC now does know (that it's illegal) and perhaps knew even before he asked the seller for ID that it was an improper request as hehas been brave enough to admit it in his post. Seller did overreact if infact he did react the wayHabib explains, but I am doubtful. How did Habib get an earful via sms from26CHRISR, who seems to be the sellerin question.

Now, on to Habib's main questions, how does one get some piece of mind when purchasing goodsviaAsiaxpat:

1) ED overzealously deletes posts (even legitimate ones, cos he believes seller is a business and not a private entity, ED sure could use some tips on spotting businesses and believe me there are plenty of people who are using this site for business, and I wasn't one of them when you deleted my post ED :- Simply cos someone knows about computer and have few of them to sell, doesn't make them a business. They are known as hobbyists.... JFYI). So in summary, ED's hope is thatindividuals will deal with individuals. Fair enough and I sure commend him for trying.

2) Now, if that's the case, do we need to ensure a seller'sIdentity? NO. What we need to ensure is whether what we are purchasing isworking (if we need it in working condition). If I sell something I tell people upfront what's wrong with the product, so when buyer / sellermeet the buyer won't consider me dishonest for not telling him about product's fault, when the fault is found by the buyer.So as a buyer, go ahead and ask the seller to tell you upfront about faults and also tell them what faults are acceptable to you, (like scratches on most products are acceptable to me), otherwise tell him / her, it will be no deal if you find out about faults the seller didn't share. So far I haven been burnt once only, cos I didn't know the product.

So, Know the product you are buying and test it. I personally won't purchase a computer until I have taken my diagnostic disk with me and have ran few tests, namely memory test, HD test, graphics test. I was going to buy a computer for a family member recently,and the seller kept giving this / that excuse for not letting mesee / test the PC. So after 20 sms'es, I said to him, "No Deal - Thanks for your time". So know your product, know how to test it and insist on testing it, or askfor a cheaper price if no testing is available and If seller is still willing to oblige, then you should be very cautious of buying such a product.

Best of Luck, HappyTrading, and Asiaxpat is the only such platform and agood platform, (Compared to that Geoxxx piece of cxxx whose frequenters are louxx losxxxx)

@NTERNALGAME,

The goods in question were/are a Xbox 360 S Matte model with 250G HDD - it comes with some fairly new and expensive games on disc.

The original poster made several enquiries via SMS to an advert placed on the classifieds, I responded in full and politely to all questions, which the original poster omitted to mention in their post, this before slandering me by way of being a "scammer".

Given I live on Lamma Island, most buyers of small goods are averse to catching the ferry to view, hence I requested the exchange take place at "Central Ferry Piers", which is hardly conspiratorial shall we say.

Further, most buyers check goods before they exchange funds, whilst difficult for electronic goods, its still possible, particularly to qualify that the Advert has not been misleading in anyway - of course this means having some knowledge of the goods you are buying, which means utilising Google, but in the case of an Xbox, at least qualifying on the back of the machine the actual manufacture date, which gives a clear indication if you are being scammed or not.

Having just purchased a Gaming Headset at more money than the Xbox for sale, even I've been caught out, but the seller, being honest, has offered to return back all my funds and take the goods back - that particular Chinese website has "user" feedback like eBay, hence a good idea not to abuse it if a long term member.

However, as stated, the original posters comments are biased and most one-sided, but to be blunt my wrath was irked once the original poster demanded I produce an ID Card, a request I found offensive and daft to be honest and I made this quite clear on my response to them, i.e., it was me who told the OP to go elsewhere to be allegedly ripped off!!!!!!!!!!!

HaH OK. :) and Thanks your kind responseChris,

Frankly I am justhere to bridge this unhappygap that was created between the two of you, since IbelieveHabibseemed suspicious and worried about his purchase, which probably resulted in him acting irrationally, (asking for ID and then posting his worries here) and when you responded in a way, any HKer (or even I myself) would, he took offence and brought this matter hereto find out if he was right and admitted that he might have gone a bit too far.

Being brown skinned, I can tell you that there's a bit of culturall misunderstanding here and given how Habib is (presumably) a NYorker sothus let's give hima little wiggle roomin terms of cultural unawareness for now, i guess they are used to being a bit suspicious of people, whereas in HK, we have platforms where we can name / shame dishonest sellers, so are a bit smart purchasers, I guess.

(By the way kindly do share addressof that chinese site, via PM if possible. Thanks. I want to purchase someNikon lensesand get rid ofno longer neededcomputer parts)

I sure hope he understands now that people heretakeprivacy seriously and asking for an ID card is totally pressing the wrong buttons and is a surefire way of getting on people's wrong side.

Habib, (despite our above frank discussion about you, if you are still not upset with me) feel free to PM me if you need anysuggestions on buying stuff and if you are new in HK or new to Purchasing electronics. I do eat halal food, and ChungKing has plenty good restaurants...:)

@InternalGame,

Many thanks for both you and CARA interceding, which I blew a head gasket as we say in the UK, like you I'm happy to offer advice to all member of AsiaExpat, as many can attest too via PM's and SMS.

I take it that HABIBI now understands that many expats are offended if a complete stranger request they produce an ID Card for any reason whatsoever. Given the sum involved it really was silly and I made my displeasure known by SMS.

If the OP requires help purchasing an xBox, not necessarily from me, of course I'd help and point them to alternative local websites, which obviously cannot be mentioned here. I do find it annoying that "ED" has not re-posted my advert with a slight amendment that was beneficial from both a sellers and buyers perspective.

Will re-list and see what happens, although many sellers do seem to ask high prices for some gods on here, which I actually tell them from time to time.

A PM has been forwarded to you and many thanks for your wise words, which I trust all readers will adhere too as they will protect you in most instances.

Regards
Chris

@InternalGame,


Can you PM instead, for some reason Safari is not working to click on your name and personally connect, I'll give you details on 4 websites, one of which you should know.

I have been 'told' previously that there are restrictions on who can copy an ID card, I am curious though who is actually allowed to ask for a persons ID number &/or view an ID card in Hong Kong?
Banks always ask and I am sure many others do as well (for instance at a hotel I booked I was asked and when I have had a problem with my internet and when setting up a phone account) so does anyone on the forum have a link or document stating the actual legal situation?

Ah, Same here, usingI.Explorer.

Will try to PM you tonight from home computer.

Thanks for being understanding and for your kind words too. Occassionally I do want to tell people... Really??? you have never visited ShamShuiPo?
and Really, Are you sure you want to ask for that price for this thing, that someone above / below your postis selling for half the price???
and also I really want to tell those that say, "anybody asking for less or this or that price can move on". I mean really??? Just say, price is fixed and that's it. if somebody shows genuine interest I would charge them less,if I feel like it and most buyersknow it too,even on a price I have advertised as "fixed", but once someonewrites language such as "move on" e.t.c. I wonder if they ever get any queries. Pretty soon they will be left with theircomputers as stoolsor they will have to reduce their price to sell it, cos electronics / computers specially can't be rid of with rigid a price / attitude.

And, what's up with this ED guy, a bit of a weird block, ain't he?but he has got a good head on his shoulders. .. :)
I am obviously impressed due tothe bravenews articles that he dares toshare. Hope he is taking advantagegiven silver's decline and saving for a rainy day...

KingGreene, Sorry no legal docs aware of, and haven't turned google's wheel yet, but I go by the situation, in bank it makes sense, they want to make sure that they are talking to YOU. there are also HKMA regulatory requirements based on transactions, to combat money laundering.

In phone companies, I do hand them my ID, if they need to find my account details to help me do something. Imagine someone going and just asking for someone else's data by just utterring their ID card #.

So I guess, common sense should prevail and never hesitate to ask, why do you need it? if they don't know or if you don't feel it's a valid request, just take off and say, sorry I need to think about it. Far too many companies do request it unfortunately, but it's mostly to verify identity and to tie our faces to the card that we hand over to them.

and yes, there are restrictions onwho can copy and you are even required to cross your ID card copy before you give it to someone.Just draw two parallel lines, as one would on a cheque to make it a crossed cheque andbetween those 2 lines write COPY. No one should object, specially gov't depts, asyou are not required to hand someone your ID "COPY", without doing this bit. ithink this rule was brought in, so people won't copy your data, though I don't seehow it helps, but I guess one could use such a photocopy (without the word and lines) to do stuff on the internet, where people are not able to physically touch the ID card to verify it's existence. Again, I don't know, this is a murky field for me.

And.. finally, this..
http://www.hkclic.org/en/topics/immigration/passports_and_identity_cards/q3.shtml

@internalgame,

Damned strange internal PM system not working, however you can look at the XBox adverts and SMS via my mobile - its the reasonably priced XBox with no BS and price is "fixed".

Alternatively, if on Skype, just Skype me on Editor26Chrisr and I'll respond.

As for your advice on HKID Cards, yes far too many ask for it to be produced hre in Hong Kong and the HKGov is aware the system is abused, its one of the reasons the British public are opposed to ID cards - me, I find them useful on many occasions, particularly at the Airport, however you should not show it to any Tom, Dick or Harry, and this includes shops and anyone from the general public.