Dear Domestic Helpers....

Posted by honkie 14 yrs ago

I agree your contributions to employers deserver better salaries and better benefits but NOT permanent residence. Read the contract as your employment doesn't include permanent residence. If you couldn't cope with it, you should have not signed it and just stayed in your country.

Few questions for the ones who think you could find a better job for making more money:

1) do you exactly know the situation of the current job makret?

2) what kind of job can you do if you quit the DH job?

3) are you sure the market has enough vacancies that really suits you? and vice versa?

4) do you know the average rate for renting an apartment in here?

5) do you know how expensive of renting only a small room?

6) are you sure your salary is enough for supporting shelter plus other compulsory expenses?

7) will you be still willing to be DH if you couldn't find an ideal job you expected after becoming citizen?

8) what if you couldn't find a job?

9) what if you couldn't even find DH job again?

10) are you sure you can afford to be permanant residence?

I would like to know!

Yardie 14 yrs ago

Probably one of the most ignorant postings I've seen on this site.

Many helpers are better educated and more qualified than their employers - the sad fact is that they can earn more here as a helper than they could as a teacher or nurse or other professional at home.

If they were able to take up other jobs we'd have hospitals with nurses that actually understand the concept of a 'caring' profession (nurses from the Philippines are in great demand around the world), shop and restaurant staff that understand the concept of a 'service' industry and teachers / teaching assistants

that like working with kids.

There are plenty of helpers who have settled here and are now permanent residents in full-time, regular employment like those and more.

Imagine the local reaction to a similar policy in the UK, Canada, Australia or the USA that allowed everyone to work to residency EXCEPT Chinese restuarant workers.

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

yes, the OP's post may seems a bit emotional. However Yardie, you sound a bit tad emotional yourself. i am not sure I am with you on your praise for Filipina DH, you talk like all local nurses here are bad, they do not know the meaning of caring? all local restaurant staff here are rude and all local teacher assistants in HK hate kids. ??? are you serious?? Either you are delusional or you are a DH that can’t accept your life as a helper to your less educated employer (your own opinion). You should move and live in the Philippines and be surrounded by all these highly competent people..

"Many helpers are better educated and more qualified than their employers”. Just because someone probably can speak better English doesn’t mean he/she is better educated, speaking and understanding English isn’t the only criteria for success or the only factor in determining one is better educated than the other. A lot of successful people don’t speak English, in life, there are a lot of contributing factors in determining who has the ability to become an employer and who is to be an employee, the very basic one being an employer can afford to hire someone to work for him/her.

Yardie 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia - spoken like a true local.

Take off your rose-tinted spectacles and take a chill pill or two (emotional? delusional?)

You make a lot of assumptions, none of which are remotely accurate.

Someone as well educated and as well travelled as yourself must know that HK isn't exactly known for the service it provides - otherwise why would the government spend so much money on adverts trying to promote courtesy, especially to our mainland visitors.

And anyone with experience of the public wards in local hospitals is unlikely to find much in the way of 'care' in our health care service where dropping babies on the floor doesn't even merit an apology.

While I'm sure many teachers are dedicated and do actually care, many don't - it's just a job.

And by the way, I don't think I actually mentioned 'local' teachers, nurses or anything else for that matter.

I did however forget to mention our uncivil servants - as anyone who has experienced the dubious 'service' at Immigration Tower can attest to - the bit that deals with helpers and other ethnic minorities of course, not the nice part.

Your whole argument appears to boil down to the usual Hong Kong fixation with money - as they say in Jamaica, "A fool in golden robes is still a fool." and a rich peasant is still a peasant. Manners cost nothing - neither does being considerate or caring.

By the way, the only issue you didn't address was the comparison of Chinese restaurant workers in the UK, USA etc. not being allowed to work to residence while everyone else can.

It's happened before - look at the Chinese Exclusion Act in the USA and that's still the subject of demands for an official apology.

But it's OK for us to have a similar policy here?

lagrue 14 yrs ago

HK isn't exactly known for the service it provides

Yardie, while I agree with parts of your post, this bit is blatantly incorrect. As you have stated HK is a materialistic culture, when you have no cash/ or they think you have none there is zippo by the way of service HOWEVER if you have money here, you can really move mountains. Service here if you are willing to pay for health care, restaurants ect is top notch, better than anything I have ever experienced back home. Granted its not done with the same altruistic spirit for the most part (they are just making money) but still the service is pretty impressive.

The civil servants are pretty terrible unless they think you are someone with some clout....sigh.

Closing thoughts

-PR previous DH are some of the hardest working restaurant service staff that I have met

-I have NEVER met a DH more educated than their employer (unless it was a fabrication)

-I agree the OP is a pretty weird random and ignorant one

punter 14 yrs ago

I would like to see an experiment where all FDHs are sent home for a month or maybe 6. What would really be the result? I'm sure Hong Kong will survive. We will all adapt to changed conditions.

Fortunately that's not the point. As pointed out many times, this is a question of law not of emotions.

markers 14 yrs ago

it should be a question of law, unfortunately it's also a question of how well HK can hide it's racist tendancies. Just look at Honkie's post, almost all of it is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether DH should get residency.

bing2 14 yrs ago

yardie wrote:

I did however forget to mention our uncivil servants - as anyone who has experienced the dubious 'service' at Immigration Tower can attest to - the bit that deals with helpers and other ethnic minorities of course, not the nice part.

>> dubious service? maybe because you are holding a passport from a dodgy country? do you know in countries like indonesia, philippines, pakistan, etc you have to pay under money table to get anything going? talking about uncivil.

By the way, the only issue you didn't address was the comparison of Chinese restaurant workers in the UK, USA etc. not being allowed to work to residence while everyone else can.

>> what?? are you serious?? this rule applies to all domestic helpers in hong kong, not just for filipino. even if you are from canada and if you are here as a DH you will not be granted PR.

bad comparison.

illmatic 14 yrs ago

my father went to Canada on a totally different situation compared to DH. DH come here with a job, contract, housing and a salary. A salary probably more then 2 or 3 times as much as they could make in there own country. My dad didnt get that.

USA, they have there own immigration problems with Mexicans, look how they are handling that "racial" issue. HK people have a total right to be concern about this issue. They dont care where the DH come from, they dont want to strain there social system where it ends up to thin and can not support everyone here. Local people feel about this just as they dont like mainland people coming to HK and buying up all property and raising housing cost.

Yardie 14 yrs ago

lagrue - you're right but it's not really what I meant by a culture of 'service' when you're obviously paying for it.

p.mason - same point really, from experience I've found some nationalites more 'naturally' pleasant, helpful or less downright rude as nurses, shop and restaurant staff etc. compared with the majority here. (again, unless you are obviously loaded).

Bing2 - I hold a British passport so your assumption it's from some dodgy country is spot on. What happens in other countries is not really relevant - it exists here too, it's just more subtle. Climb down from your ivory tower and take a trip to the visa section and see for yourself.

And your right, the law here replies to all DHs and not just Filipinas - you must be so proud that we're descriminating against all those ethnic minorities equally.

Would you feel better if in my comparison, they kicked out all the Indian and Thai restaurant workers too on minimum wage ?

illmatic - trying to see how you're father's situation is all that different to DH. I'm assuming (a) he went to Canada in search of a better life for himself and his family, and (b) he had the same opportunity to obtain residency the same as everyone else. If you're trying to make the point that he went there without a job, contract or salary then you're really destroying your whole argument - he was still let in and allowed to stay despite being Chinese,unemployed and a potential strain on the social system.

Most countries have some sort of control on immigration or a system of working to residency - the difference is they (the majority of developed countries) don't specifically discriminate against particular ethnic groups.

Mind you, this is Asia's (3rd) World City - the one that came up with the cunning plan a few years back to make all DHs spend their day off in underground carparks to keep the streets of central 'clean' for the rest of us.

bing2 14 yrs ago

yardie, you need to be in touch with reality. in the UK, maybe you never been to the immigration there. tell me if they are better than HK immigration officers when dealing with people from dodgy countries. HK immigration officers are very professional and not as discriminating as many other countries.

how not allowing domestic helpers to get PR is discrimination? this is not a discrimination of ethnic minority. in fact there are many filipinos, indonesians, indians, that have received PR status from hong kong immigration because they are NOT domestic helper.

even if a chinese woman from mainland china is here for doing DH job immigration will also not grant her PR status! would you say she is also a minority?

seriously get educated on the topic man or woman!

honkie 14 yrs ago

all we concern is we don't want the same things happen like the immigrations from mainland! they come here without doing anything but rely on the social welfare, government pays for their shelters, food etc,. that's a BURDEN especially it's not easy to survive in HK nowadays since the crisis back to 97 and SARS in 2003. many locals could only earn 5,000 something every month that's not enough to cover the compulsory expenses for housing and bills! Many jobs for fresh graduated don't even offer more than 10,000 per month. go check Labour Dept that's the reality in here! Locals have difficulties to get good jobs so i really doubt how many of them could really find job when they get PR? noone could guarantee the ideal PR life they imagine would come true! if not they would rely on government - means the tax payers have to be responsible for it. get it?

imagine if all HK people were granted PR before the handover in 97. do you think british would have zero concerns of their benefits, populations etc.,??

they are paid to work here and they signed the contracts without being forced. the make they make are five times more than they could make back home. what else do they want?!!?

Yardie 14 yrs ago

bing2 - Did you forget to take your medication again today? Sad face ;(

Honkie - that's a far better presented argument and quite valid. Unfortunately economic migration to HK has been a problem for decades - from illegal immigration and the 'touch base' policy to the present day and concerns about new arrivals from China.

There are existing methods of dealing with RoA issues etc. for non DHs coming to HK which should be able to control immigrant numbers and should be used equally across the board - it's the fact that we have legislation which specifically targets one particular group (DHs whatever the nationality) that is basically 'discriminatory'.

The existing immigration legislation controls who can and cannot come to HK to live or to work here and that should effectively control who can and cannot become permanent residents here. It's effectively financially discriminatory as applicants normally have to have a (reasonably) well paid job or other means of support but it can at least be applied to everyone equally. (Most other countries popular with HK migrants have similar policies).

As for the financial hardships faced by many Hong Kong residents - blame the rich who keep getting richer at the expense of the poor and ever shrinking middle class here.

If you have a vote in the up coming elections, use it wisely.

bing2 14 yrs ago

yardie, i took mine :-D happy face. how about you? :-( sad face....

are you saying if i was a soccer coach i have to play everyone in the team and not my best 11 players?? if i didnt play some of my weaker players are you saying i discriminate those weaker players??

do you think HKU must accept everyone?? if they dont accept a few students because they are not good enough in HKU opinion, are you going to say HKU discriminating those students??

cmon....

DH are too weak financially to live by their own. that's why hk immigration dont take thier PR application and immigration had anticipated this that's why all DH coming to HK were told they are not eligible to apply for PR status.

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

First, Does everyone here agree that wages have been stagnant in HK since 1997, since the controversial ruling relaxing the migration of mainland Chinese (to HK)?

Secondly, the DH residency issue should not be confused as a 'racially discriminatory' matter; rather whether or not the DH are using a loophole in the Basic Law to obtain a benefit they contractually agreed they were not permitted to. It will be appalling to see the few game the system at the detriment of the many.

The citizens of HK have every right to be fearful of the potential strain on jobs and govt. benefits that would accompany an influx of newly qualified migrants with large family sizes.

Every government in the world has an obligation to put the welfare of their citizens first.

Hong Kong is no exception.

mariajohnson 14 yrs ago

To all People against the DH residency, just accept the fact that DH won their battle period!no more argument, your court decision already made so let's just all welcome them and join us in HK, after all they're look after our children, cook our food,, clean our house while we are away working etc.

bing2 14 yrs ago

they won a battle but not the war! even though the court ruled for their favor but immigration is still the one that has the full authority to give or deny PR status, and applicants will be processed case by case.

i can tell you right now that all DHs here do not meet immigration's mean tests and/ or requirement to be a PR.

honkie 14 yrs ago

i have found few comments online that are more rational

sorry i can't speak english very well

Comment from SCMP's Page on FB

"No sane people / country / government in the world gives away the right of abode to kids of chinese mothers or filipino domestic helpers. We need to talk about integrity, skills and $ here, have those women got enough? Hong Kongers have worked very hard for generations to build a fantastic city and should have every right and obligation to be as discriminate as possible to protect their people and future generations and their land itself. Marcus if you so adore those ladies bring them to your country and give them a good right of abode for their entire extended families. And please don't tag racism, the term has been abused by darker skinned people for decades now. Heard of reverse racism?"

On Bloomberg

"Racist? Which part of the article insinuate that the Hong Kong government is racist (against Filipino as it seem to suggest from your above post)? It simply state that the Hong Kong government discriminates the profession, a skill set. A banker and cook offers skills needed that is low in supply and required by the HK government. In comparison, a maid offers a skill that is abundant in supply. There's no reason to give out PR status to people who can't offer a skill set you need. Australia also only offers PR status if you have a skill they need.

A maid come to work in Hong Kong willingly and continued to stay in HK to work. In return, she is paid in full. The transaction is fulfilled on both sides. It's her own decision to continue to stay in HK and not compelled by the HK government. Just because she worked in HK for 25 years does not mean that she automatically becomes a 'long time contributor' and deserve to become a PR. A country only admits people with skill sets they need. Working as a maid for 25 years does not change the fact that the skill set is not highly valued by the HK government (or to put it crudely, any other governments won't view a maid, no matter if you are Filipinos or American, as highly skilled labor)."

honkie 14 yrs ago

"What I've always found ironic is that most "hong kongers" are only a generation or two removed from the mainland themself. I find it extremely selfish, or maybe self serving to think that because you or your parents were granted residency a decade or two ago that you have some long standing stake in the Golden Goose that is Hong Kong"

didn't you know the mainlanders in the last 3rd generations moved to hk mostly due to WORLD WARS and polical issue in mainland? and i i believe a FORMAL policy for emmigrating to hk wasn't even created 200 years ago. therefore people could move to anywhere to get PR without too many regulations. and how could you compare the current situations with the generations of our great grandparents/grandparents? we didn't have 7million population back then. hk is already too crowded. people are suffering from the crazy property market. spending almost half of the wages for housing mortage. government doesn't provide enough cheaper housings to middle class or lower...mainland pregnant women "conquer" our hospitals now. local mothers have to sleep on the corridors by portable beds because of them!!! us hk people do have our rights to protect ourself! whats wrong to against this PR issue huh?

sicn 14 yrs ago

Hongkong DH exists (or the DH visa is granted) is not because their skill but the willingness to perform domestic service for such low salary that no local will. So for the government to grand DH PR means the goverment also allow the DH's right to pursue other professions (higher salary) and same welfare as their employers. It doesn't make any sense compare to how other "advanced" governments' way of handling.

I think for that DH granted PR shall be based on the fact of lawful HK residency over long period of time, but not as Domestic Helper.

lagrue 14 yrs ago

white kiwi trash

Too true. If the DH were to vanish overnight the people here would adapt. Children would learn to tie their shoelaces, feed themselves, bathe themselves earlier. Idle grandparents would have new meaning. Parents would bring their children out everywhere with them and inadvertantly be much closer., companies would need to offer flexi time jobs.....all in all, scrap the DH program!!!!

Oh one other thing. The government would be forced to develop quality childcare facilities rather than leave each of us to fend for ourselves and find helpers whom we trust to leave our children with, being able to rely only on one's gut.

bing2 14 yrs ago

agree.

DH makes our children soft!

honkie 14 yrs ago

white kiwi trash

sicn

lagrue

bing2

thanks for those rational opinions!!! i believe hk people would find a way to survive without DHs.

Hugie 14 yrs ago

In my small circle of friends, I know two computer experts, one teacher, two flight attendants, a businessman and a cleaner. The lowest paid gets 11K a month. They are all Filipino. What were you saying about what jobs they could do?

FKKC 14 yrs ago

Hugie

You just said it yourself for the answer...in my SMALL circle of friends. On the bigger picture, firstly, they should blame it on their own government for making them leave their own country and families to work elsewhere in jobs lower than their standards, mind you...not all!

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

The FDH scheme should eventually be phased out except an allowance for special circumstances such as care for the handicapped/elderly. Promote private sector day care facilities for kids of different ages so that parent can arrange to pick up their children after work. These day care facilities can be part play group/part homework tutelage (an extension of the school experience). For close to the 5K per month spent by families on a FDH, they could very well save a few bucks outsourcing their cleaning/house-work with the existence of affordable day care.

It doesnt take a math PHD to calculate that up to HK$1 Billion is drained from our local economy each and every month to be sent back to prop up various corrupt and shoddy regional countries/governments.

If the money that was saved from exiting Hong Kong were to be equally applied to the types of services that your typical FDH render, it would be a substantial boon to low-skilled service oriented local workers. And maybe, just maybe, some form of real poverty alleviation may finally happen.

Hugie 14 yrs ago

FKKC.....don't understand what you are talking about?

punter 14 yrs ago

It's a case of oversimplification for some. In the west (e.g. Canada, US, UK), people leave their kids in day care centers or private homes with care givers, it's working for them. It may not work very well in Hong Kong as culturally for example, office workers (or all workers in general) practically live in their places of work! In the west, parents with children left in day care centers/homes leave office exactly at 5:00 pm (including waking up so early to prepare for the children's day needs).

People with no children and elderly parents will have difficulty understanding this.

Tune 14 yrs ago

'Many helpers are better educated and more qualified than their employers - the sad fact is that they can earn more here as a helper than they could as a teacher or nurse or other professional at home.'

Oh no, not this old one.

A few years ago the Hkied ran a survey to establish the true credentials of domestic helpers that claimed they were 'university educated' qualified teachers. Not one of the people surveyed was able to produce an authentic document such as a certificate that was credible. We did receive some questionable excuses.

We no longer employ a domestic helper. We found them to be more trouble than they are worth; however, given that a court has ruled their eligibility to apply for residency, we should respect that decision. Furthermore, I'm sure many of them can make a valuable contribution to HK, one way or another.

punter 14 yrs ago

That's one more point to consider. Why is it not working right now? One answer is, it's cheaper and more convenient to hire and FDH.

With the high cost of renting a good-sized space to run a day care, how much do you think is it going to charge per hour to make money?

Typhoon 14 yrs ago

Support domestic helpers in all other areas. I think they are treated badly by many of their employers in Hong Kong. I also think it must be quite tough to live away from one's family for so long.

However, the Hong Kong government should have the right to decide who it wants to stay and who it doesn't. If that decision is unfair to certain groups of people, that's life. Improving conditions for foreign labour is one thing, but granting foreign labour the right of abode could create all kinds of difficulties for Hong Kong.

punter 14 yrs ago

Right on. Hong Kong government has the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches. The Judicial branch has just ruled that FDHs can apply for ROA. Are you supporting that?

How should Hong Kong deal with the situation? This should be the right question.

Have the legislative body, craft laws to prevent ROA for FDHs (and bear the consequences, there will be negative ones). Then execute the new law/s. However if the law drafted by the legislative, executed by the Executive, is found unconstitutional by the Judiciary, it cannot be instituted! Therefore the constitution/Basic law needs to be amended first.

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

I am with Dolphan, white Kiwi trash and Largue, the issue has nothing to do with racial discrimination, it is more of a social concern for the locals.

Hong Kong has very limited space and high density of population, and because of HK government’s incompetent, we are still struggling with the Mainland Chinese immigrating to HK, the rich of them pushing the property price up while the poor of them depend on HK welfare system, it has caused a lot of friction to a once harmonious society that was Hong Kong. Our hospital service, education and housing system can’t even manage right now, with the pouring in of another round of DH, can you blame us for worrying are we going to be able to cope, and will there be enough job vacancy for these people, otherwise, we have to provide them with welfare again. The news about the maid that was granted residency, it says she can petition her husband, 5 children and 9 grandchildren to HK, so with one PR given, it has 15 people walking behind her into HK, can u blame us for being worried???

As with all other immigration rules in other countries, and understandably, should open its door to skillful professionals in order to move and better our society, for those non-skill immigrants, one need to invest a big sum of money in the country of his/her choice in order to gain entry. In the case of DH, they have neither, as one poster mentioned, after all they are here to clean our houses, do our laundries, wash our cars, these are hardly highly skill chores. I am pretty sure without the foreign DH, locals can readily step in and take up the job, in fact, I am thinking it will even give the non-skill immigrants from Mainland a chance to get a job and get out of the welfare system. The way I see it is that there's no reason to give out PR status to people who can't offer a skill set to better our society, and worst even, may depend on the society.

FKKC 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia

Very clear & well written.

Tune

You are so right about their claims on their education which doesn't really matter much to us employers because we hire them for good domestic work & hopefully their honesty.

sellmystuffhk 14 yrs ago

Why are you so concerned about the DH getting PR? They actually work and contribute to HK.

Why are you not concerned about all the mainland babies that are being born in HK, clogging up all the hospital spaces. These children will automatically gain HK residency status. Why? Wait a few years and see the problems that will result in - schools, healthcare.... What did those children contribute to HK despite an expensive hospital birth and a few cases of milk powder.

punter 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia, your information regarding the helper getting PR and her 15 relatives is the kind of information that inflames negative reaction. One can only sponsor immediate family members (Husband and children below 18) to become their dependents (dependent visa first and then after 7 years can apply for ROA).

Including the grandchildren as qualified to be dependent is way off!

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

Smelly, why are we concern DH getting PR, you've answer your own question, that is exactly HK locals concern, I have just posted my reply above, we couldn't even cope with the mainlanders crisis, can we take another round of DH crisis, at least these mainlanders mother paid more than HKD30,000 to give birth in HK, i am pretty sure the DH who gain PR status will give birth in our public hospital without paying a cent, but as with most of the mainland babies born here, use up HK free education, medical system, I am not being mean here, but let's face it, their own home country is so poor they can't provide for their own citizens.

If there comes a day HK can no longer afford all these welfare or HK economy corrupt, at least we can still rely on China to have our back, but can we expect the same from the Philippines or from Indonesia??

And please while DHs constantly reminding the world how much they have contributed to HK society (as if they are working here for free!!), how about let's take a closer look at how much money the Philippines made from exporting maids to HK, how much money have been send back to the Philippines yearly, as Dolphan has rightly pointed out. Let us just not ignore We HK employers contributed a lot to the Philippine economy. The DH program was supposed to be a win-win situation, we need the labour and you need the money, contract signed and duties carried out, now with the DH demands of residency issue, HK and Chinese Government (since eventually they will be ruling HK) should take a hard look at its DH existing policy and raise the rules for approving DH into HK, gradually fade out this policy by substituting non-skill immigrants from Mainland for them to integrate into HK society. I am sure while HK is fighting the war, our neighbour, Singapore, would prepare and tighten their own rules too

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

Punter, have a look at the Oriental daily news date Oct 26,

高等法院今日將就首宗外傭爭取居港權案下判令，原訴人Vallejos Evangeline Banao有機會獲得居港權，成為首名「港人菲傭」，可申請丈夫、五名子女及九名孫兒來港。

I am not sure if you read Chinese, there must be some way, people can gave birth under 18, isn't it. :)) I know you are going to tell me that's media crap blah blah blah, but what I am trying to stress here is giving out one PR status does'n't exactly mean one

punter 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia, can you verify that info from the Immigration department? After verification, how many can be granted PR? Mouthing everything that you read in the papers without verification is not a very good practice.

Even the Vallejos lady may not even be granted PR. What she won was the right to apply for PR, but it doesn't guarantee approval. What more of her kin?

honkie 14 yrs ago

it will be a never ending story if Vallejos got rejected. she will sue the government by playing the discrimination card again i SWEAR!! her employer will help her for doing this as well as he is helping her for this applying PR thing. according to his interview with one of the local newspapers, same like some employers as he claims himself and his famy consider Vallejos a family member since she has been working for him for years. plus he helped her daughter (or son) to go to university blah blah blah...i think their the emotion bonding is irrelevant to PR. you get along well with your maid doesn't mean our government has to understand it and approve the PR

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

Madtown, that is only your opinion. and you are entitle to any opinion that you may have. Trust me, if we have a choice, we wouldn't want our maternity ward to be riddled of all the mainlanders, we wouldn't want to have to provide welfare to those children by non-HKPR residence, imagine adding to that picture would be DHs queuing in for our medical facilities, schools and etc.. majority of HK locals welcome people with skills that can better our society, that is why you never heard complaining voices against foreign doctors, barristers or ESL teachers who may wish to apply for PR in HK. We welcome mainland movie stars/pianists to become a PR, we don't complain. This is one of the reasons locals dislike DH wanting for PR, they keep saying we locals are not treating them good (but some stay for as long as 25 years!!) or we discriminate them. None of these accusations are true, and maybe just maybe, if some of the locals want to preserve an ethnic Chinese society, what is wrong with it!! just as Typoon has said so, " the Hong Kong government should have the right to decide who it wants to stay and who it doesn't. If that decision is unfair to certain groups of people, that's life. Improving conditions for foreign labour is one thing, but granting foreign labour the right of abode could create all kinds of difficulties for Hong Kong is another.

FKKC 14 yrs ago

Of course the locals are concerned...this FDH residency issue happens in their own back-yard and they know it will cause a lot of difficulty in the long run. I bet those people who wrote so righteously for the issue using wordings like discrimination, unfairness etc etc. will write differently if this happens in their own back-yard.

As the Chinese proverb says...one will only feel the pain when the needle pricks on him/her.

punter 14 yrs ago

I understand the concern of locals. They're quite valid as expressed by Amparo Kia.

However it looks like the law is in the FDH's side. What can ordinary HK people do about it? They pressure their government officials of course. And this drama will continue to unfold.

homely 14 yrs ago

My helper works for me 7 years comes November which is on Tuesday. She said Oh, I can file for residency and can you help me. I said 'no' I wouldn't as I am against it for the long-term welfare of HK. I like my helper very much, I pay her more than the basic wage required by our government even when she is serving just my hubby and myself as we value her. I've given her the 6 years of long service payment in advance (I hope this deed doesn't back-fire on me as I think it's not the way to be done) because she needed the money as she has financial problems at home and I don't want her to go borrow and get herself into trouble. I give her gifts and tips whenever I feel generous. She eats what we eat and I allow her to buy extras for herself (of course within reason). Our flat doesn't have servant's quarter so we gave her a regular room which a lot of people envied. We go out to dinner together. She loves it whenever she goes back on her holidays, I will clear-up lots of stuff some unused and some used but clean and she was sort of like Santa Claus giving out these to her family members. Sometimes she asks me to pay her salary earlier and I give it to her. I will do anything within reason to make her happy but not this residency issue because I know it will bring a lot of problems to HK....this has nothing to do with discrimination!

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

We in Hong Kong have every right to be concerned about predatory migration practices from mainland china. Come to HK to give birth and you get first class medical service, PR for your kid which is basically a policy insurance in case the winds change the wrong way for you in China, and BAM you avoid the dreaded One Child Policy... What a sweet deal!

If one were to calculate the cost benefit of giving birth in HK and its sweeteners, there's probably over HKD400-500K in value. (Long term benefit from being a PR holder and for the parents if they are govt. workers, will get to keep their jobs) What the government has done, as always, is fail to capitalize on our strength of what HK can offer. If both of the parents are not HK PR ID cardholders, and they are in HK for no reason other than to give birth, then there should be a services tax, say HK300,000 or more on top of whatever the hospital charge for giving birth in HK. This money from this tax would be a boon to help pay our public doctors and nurses, who really do toil under the current system.

If the government were to get off their asses and do something about the hospital situation which is frankly a disgrace (mainland women showing up a the last minute in the ER to give birth, HK residents with no rooms but have to sleep in the aisle), a simple solution is at hand. Just announce that HK govt. will start liasing with the Chinese authorities or any other non PR births for that matter, and every month the list of names of parents who have given birth in HK and their addresses will be relayed to their relevant counterparts in China(or other countries).

Those coming to avoid their laws back home will scurry away faster than rats on a sinking ship! Bye Bye!

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

Hi Homely, don't mean to be exceedingly harsh here, just want to hear your point of view. Hypothetically, if your DH successfully obtains PR but is unable to find meaningful work that pays all the bills and she has to goon CSSA and all the other welfare mumbo jumbo.

Wouldn't it be fair that you and your husband should be required to contribute towards her welfare payments and not let society pick up the bill? After all, despite how well you have treated your DH the past 7 years, you have reaped the benefits of having a low cost employee at your service.

Many other including myself have not received such benefit; therefore we should not be obligated to pick up the tab.

homely 14 yrs ago

Hi Dolphan,

In the old days, we used to have Chinese amah and her pay is around $300 and double pay during Chinese New Year. One day holiday a week which she never took unless she had some private matters to attend to which was very rare.

I think the government didn't enforced any fixed laws like nowadays to protect them then but since these amahs were mostly un-married, they were very faithful to their employers and in turns, the employers do treat them as part of their families. These amahs usually have quarters they bought way ahead of time with some of their amah friends to live together after they retired in their old age. Some lucky ones are those that the employers will take care & support them & buried them in the end. This had nothing to do with any binding contracts or laws, just human compassion & sentiment.

Back to the present...FDH...they are well protected by our government with laws. The 'low' salary as most of you people said....it really depends on how you look at it and your own financial circumstances. I think for a lot of average locals, it is already a burden for them.

As to your question of contributing towards her welfare after she obtains her PR. Why would I do that? I am so against this PR issue because it will bring so many problems to our society and if I help her in this respect, I am contracting to my belief. She should fore-see the difficulty of finding a job on the outside field and should not turn back to me for my help but I will still continue to employ her if she wants to work for me. I will treat her the same, fair and give her a bit more beyond what the contract requires.

Benefits are both ways otherwise we will not be hiring and they will not be coming.

homely 14 yrs ago

Hi madtown,

Do you know before the FDH were given the green light to come to HK to work, mainlanders were considered first but because the government fore-see the problem(s), locals hiring the distant families etc etc. I don't want to go into it too much as it's very complicated system. See how the mainlanders (both parents not HK residents)went about getting to use our hospital for giving birth in HK...no control!

So the point is, Hong Kong has limited resources, space and facility to accept and to accommodate too huge a mass in and has nothing to do with discrimination which some of you are using to justified the action.

honkie 14 yrs ago

don't be naive but be realistic. hk doesn't have enough vacancies for them. if they keep working as DH, employers have to pay them at least HKD28 per hour under the lowest salary scheme. if the DHs stay in...do employers have to pay them 24hrs? many families can afford 3,400 something but not 6,000 or more for hiring maid. even they can afford, doesn't mean they must be willing to. oh yea go get a job in restaurants? how many restaurant jobs suit non-English speakers? not everyone bothers to learn Cantonese. many DHs do speak Cantonese or even mandarin, though the true is local born South East Asians have difficulties in finding decent jobs. their skill in spoken, written, and listening have no difference with native. then what would it be for FDHs?

it's not that simple!

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

Madtown - whereas there are racists and bigots in every country and society, the real issue is the 'fear of overcrowding' the welfare and public housing schemes, especially at a time when the HK government's incompetence provides no confidence to its citizens that it has any viable plans to tackle these problems. Wages have been stagnant for the past 15 years due to an influx of cheap labor from the north. The boom in 'slum dwellings' such as sub-divided rentals in industrial building is testament that we in HK have a serious housing problem. So if anyone's looking to blame someone for the opposition to DH PR status by HK locals, blame the mainlanders. They've set the precedent for gaming the system.

Homely - Thanks for your candid reply. Would you agree that it would be fair to all if eventually the FDH scheme is scrapped?

homely 14 yrs ago

Dolphan - Well, HK will find a way for some other scheme to get house-hold help....frankly speaking, most of us average locals are totally spolit, not to say about the really rich ones...but we do get by even if it comes to a dead end but eventually (as it always has) some plans will turn up to ease the situation.

As to fairness if the scheme is scrapped....I think it will be more of a blow to the FDH than to us. Rich people can still hire workers on a higher wage, middle class can hire part-timers & people that cannot afford to pay more will need to work harder & arrange their schedule tighter to fit in to the smooth running of the own families....that's life and housework is really not that difficult & grand parents can help looking after their grand children....we can always adjust our lives accordingly.

But as to the FDH, what about them? How will they earn their living to support their families back home. Where do they go? Even if they go back home, there's no job and even if some find a job, they are paid very low, not the 5 times amount they are paid here. That's a question left unanswered and I, as a woman & mother myself, do feel for these women who had to leave their families to work in another country. Maybe the responsibility should be solved by their own respective government(s)

rob378 14 yrs ago

As a westerner, i find it quite amuzing when certain individuals try to label HK as a city where discrimination is rampant. Nearly always it is the so called bad treatment of DH's that is given as the reason. Those that think that HK wants to remian 96% ethnic Chinese should go for a stroll in TST and see the diversity of culture.

The facts are that every government has the right to set criteria for PR according to its needs. Not allowing DH's to obtain PR is hardly discrimination, it is simply unsustainable to have so many and their dependants in HK long term.

Furthermore if DH's are as educated as some claim they are, then they can apply and be assessed under the Quality Migrant Scheme. There are no "discriminatory" exclusions for DH's to apply under this scheme!

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

Homely - Yes, if the FDH scheme is scrapped, the DH's will more than likely have to go to other countries to work cause there's no good jobs back home. The few that believe Hong Kongers treat the DH's poorly should take a look at how people treat their DHs in places like Saudi Arabia. Day and night treatment.

madtown - Quote: "Hong Kong has one of the lowest birth rates in the world (.9), and yet there is a huge population issue already? The social welfare system is strained already.... with the lowest birth rate in the world?"

Exactly, thats why a sensible and proper immigration policy should be in place. The problem is that until mainland China brings total living standards in rural areas up to par with HK or even their tier 1 cities, there will always be people who feel they can find a better living in HK. At the same time HK is dependent on China from security, food and building materials, to exports; you won't find Beijing revoking the NPC ruling of the basic law any time soon.

Quote: "Shouldn't someone who has toiled for 7 seven years as a FDHer deserve residency over others who have done nothing or contributed nothing to HK?"

If on your basis that residency should be given solely on the basis on contribution to HK society, how 'bout giving PR status to a few Japanese porn starlets while you're at it. They've certainly contributed to making HK a more happy place. Crime is down cause the triads have bootleg to sell and the overworked locals finally have some incentive to help increase the birth rate!

rob378 14 yrs ago

Madtown, discrimination exists in all countires, more or less. And HK certainly belongs to the lesser category. Where does this info come from?.. it comes from travelling and living in different countries, and experiencing different cultures. HK certainly stands out as an exceptionally welcoming and tolerant country. Although i am not "dark skinned" as you put it, i have met plenty of happy and satisfied "dark skinned" people in HK who never mention discrimination.

People from all walks of life are discriminated against by certain individuals: sexual orientation, social standing, drug users, fat, skinny, bald, short.. you name it. Yet, they move on. HK has followed other countries such as Australia, UK, Denmark.. in introducing programs to bring awareness to discrimination. (You can look in yesterdays Sth China MP). Bringing it into the open and acknowledging it is far greater than what most countries do. However when a minority doesnt get its own way and shouts discrimination, or when there is an individual case of discrimination and subsequently Chinese people are said to discriminate.. i dont buy this at all.

As far as HK having one of the lowest birth rates in the world.. ummm there are European countries with stagnant and even declining populations.. and they likewise have policies in place to combat that. And yes, having an influx of DH's and their dependants is unsustainable. As pointed out in other posts here, hospitals are overflowing, waiting lists in government hospitals are endless, shortages in quality schools are an enormous problem, not to mention housing shortages. Where does this info come from??... if you are living in HK, just have a look for yourself.

honkie 14 yrs ago

we need higher birth rate but not unskillful people to boost it up

about discrimination, have you ever seen ever heard any voilences ever happened in hk due to it? but INDONESIANS against the Chinese who have better living standard in Indonesia which is famous. we Chinese work harder and get better job and Indonesians bully them as they think the Chinese has taken over their land. which place has lesser tolerance to other races?

songyu 14 yrs ago

well in India the prime minister Indira Gandhi had been killed by her own bodyguard who's also the same nationality (Indian). JFK has been shot to death by an American. If these can also be called discrimination. Life sucks. It's all about money and power to control other people. Wives and mothers prefer hiring a DH and nanny so that they can work, make more money and be regarded more important than being a wife and mother. Husbands choose to have a DH because that's the way they don't have to help around the house anymore. When a DH got married with someone rich, she would also get another woman to work as her DH that she can be considered a success story. People are not getting smarter. The more they study, the more they don't know to solve problems, including small problems like who will clean the car, wipe the floor, etc. Why do we need DH? Is it because we're all raised up by DH while our parents busy chasing money and playing mahjong?

Tune 14 yrs ago

This thread has exposed the narrow and bigoted opinions of many of its viewers.

For the record, I will question that the Chinese are fine ones to preach about settling in other people's cultures aren't they? Besides, look at the good things they, the Chinese, have taken to other cultures. Therefore, are people of other creeds not worthy of the same opportunities as the Chinese; do people of other creeds not have anything to offer other cultures?

Furthermore, If a good proportion of local people consider the influx of new migrants a threat to the stability of this city, why does their government import so much labour (not dhs) in the first place?

souffleQueen 14 yrs ago

To humour the OP:

Few questions for the ones who think you could find a better job for making more money:

1) do you exactly know the situation of the current job makret?Job market, yes. Makret, no. I know, for a fact many Filipinas on dependent visa or has the right of abode, wives of foreigners who does part time job as domestic help , sells phone cards, do house/dog sitting. I know it's not all that rosy for everyone.

2) what kind of job can you do if you quit the DH job? Personal assistant, party planner, personal shopper for the fashionistas, to name a few.

3) are you sure the market has enough vacancies that really suits you? and vice versa? Maybe not but I can see no reason why it cannot accommodate me after 18 years in HK, the last 10 of which was spent running the mansion of a very wealthy woman. I also no reason why I cannot create my own market. " Dial-a-Chef", anyone?

4) do you know the average rate for renting an apartment in here? in which part of HK? I know you can have a decent place around 7k outside of HK Island.

5) do you know how expensive of renting only a small room? I would not rent a small room, I would rent a 2-3 bedroom flat and sublet the other rooms. As long as it is agreeable to my landlord.

6) are you sure your salary is enough for supporting shelter plus other compulsory expenses? I was earning HK7,700.00 when I left last Jan. and I have an HSBC Businessvantage card, so yes I have some saving that could support me a comfortable lifestyle while I do work when I can. Actually, I was paid HK500/hour to teach other helpers to cook/lay table/plan menu etc. I must certainly can teach other helpers how to become a Star helper with less fuss.

7) will you be still willing to be DH if you couldn't find an ideal job you expected after becoming citizen? Working with the same employer? Absolutely. What's wrong with being a DH?

8) what if you couldn't find a job? Maybe set up a sex chat up line? *grins* I never failed in finding a job, modesty aside.

9) what if you couldn't even find DH job again? That will never be a problem. To leave my job was very painful for me and my boss, but as she said there's more to me than just be a maid.

10) are you sure you can afford to be permanant residence? Yes, but do I want to? On principle, I would apply but knowing what I know now, having spent my saving to build a 6 bedroom, 6 bath two story house. where I live on the entire upper floor and the 5 rooms with private wet rooms on the ground floor are rented plus two other rooms in my old house. I've no debt, and I get around HK$5,500.00 in rent/month . HK permanent residency and possible earning is not that all shiny to me Perhaps, the responses of some posters in this thread and on domestic Help section is reason enough why I will be happier where I am now.

I would like to know! -- anymore question?

sicn 14 yrs ago

Soufflequeen, I think the OP’s questions are aimed at the regular DHs who plan to become PR of HK. Most DHs doesn’t work for rich employers and have salary like yours.

All these are based on the assumption of being other than DH. Does that also possible that the DHs becoming PR have no intention or not able to keep their profession as DH? Shall they not apply for PR based on being DH since this profession (in general) does not sustain them as independent HK residence?

I think most ppl here oppose DH becoming PR, has nothing against you being Filipino, but as DH!

I do not know the case so well. Personally, I think, as a principle, a person live in a place legally for 25 years, shall be allowed to become permanent resident regardless what her profession is.

America also issues visa to DH. But the premises are that they can only temporary stay in the US with their long-term EXPAT employees and have no immigration tendency. That has eliminated this catch 22 situation the court has created that you can apply, but you can’t get the approval.

souffleQueen 14 yrs ago

Sicn,

That was answered from a DH perspective, irregardless of the pay. I know others will have different answer. Also, FYI there are many regular helpers who earns the same salary range as I did. And where did you get the idea that my answer were based on assumption other than DH? My replies started with " I", therefore I was speaking only for myself, as a (former) helper, never did I mention that I assumed it has something to do about my race. I don't assume, and state my lack of knowledge when in doubt.

Generally speaking, mos, if not all who are legible are aware how NOT easy it is to find a better paying job once they become residence. However, I also want to point out that there is more to a helper than house works. Most, if not all take pride from the fruit of their labour and would not rely on welfare.

I know it's a long, long road ahead for the applicants, and I truly wish them well.

sicn 14 yrs ago

I think this case, the emotion and compasion have played a big part in the court's decision.

Maybe a bit off the topic. I just don't think it is right for anyone to leave her own family for so many years to take care of other people's family regardless what money played in it. It is not right for the employees, it is not right for the employers to be part of it. And the law shall not allow it either.

rob378 14 yrs ago

Madtown, I'm not passing judgment, i'm expressing my opinion as all others on this thread are. According to your assessment criteria, they likewise probably wouldnt qualify to pass judgement. Which raises the point, do you?

Although i dont agree with many of your points, i do agree with your final point, that being that all opinions here are more or less biased in some regard. Perhaps you could state why you are so pro-DH's gaining PR? I'm pretty sure that many of the respones here are from the spouses of DH's who are looking for a free ride into HK becuase they lack the professional skills or financial status to enter via some other route .. and then cry discrimination.

babeybibobu 14 yrs ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Asia

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

madtown, like I have said nth times, personally my objection is based on my concern for the HK social/welfare system.. Just like I have time and again keep repeating my objection to the mainlanders migration, are they not ethnic Chinese? I cannot represent the whole local population, i can only speak for myself and perhaps my circle of friends and colleagues, even if those Filipino/Indonesian Domestic Helpers are to be replaced by French/American/British drivers or gardeners, I will still sing the same tune and against them for staying in HK. There you go, and I really do not see it a crime or a shame if some of the locals want to preserve our own ethnic Chinese society. You as a foreigner may found London, New York's mixed cultural society exciting, however some traditional Chinese people may want a simpler society that they can enjoy.

coty 14 yrs ago

Any tax payers should be concerned and know the result would be disastrous if domestic helpers were granted the right of abode. Their families average 10-15 people. Do the maths, 300,000 x 10-15, that's 3-4.5 million! HK's population is only 7 mil. And whether they are nurses or not, doesn't matter because most are not, in any case they're nurses who spend their weekends gambling and doing manicure on footbridges.

And they make more than many locals, waiters and waitresses, security guards, supermarket staff, receptionists, interns drivers. I really don't see why they're complaining all the time, instead of showing some gratitude and respect for their hosts who are imo fantastic and hospitable. DHs here make as much as chartered accountants in their home countries, with a lot of free time in the afternoons, not bad at all i'd say.

lilismith 14 yrs ago

People,

Let me enlighten you…

First to the OP, I understand your concern and you have the RIGHT to be concern. It is your duty to protect your family and your country from a possible treat.

Let me answer your questions:

1) do you exactly know the situation of the current job makret?

I was once a domestic helper, but before I came here in Hong Kong I had a degree. And when I finally had a chance to become a resident I was able to find a job and now my salary is 45,000 and able to send my kids to International School in Hong Kong.

2) what kind of job can you do if you quit the DH job?

Please refer to my answer above. What if the DH helpers have no education? Simple, she will find a job like what she did when she was back in Indonesia, Philippines, Thai, et. Al. She will do whatever it takes to survive like YOU, ME, or other people here. It’s a basic human instinct; if you want to live then you will have to work.

3) are you sure the market has enough vacancies that really suits you? and vice versa?

I’m not sure about this, but if you are good enough & smart enough you will find a job. Please also remember that people who can’t find a job (e.g. been out of job for 2 years) have to blame themselves not the DH who becomes a PR.

4) do you know the average rate for renting an apartment in here?

Yes, they do…

5) do you know how expensive of renting only a small room?

Yes they do…

6) are you sure your salary is enough for supporting shelter plus other compulsory expenses?

It depends on how much their future salary is. You are assuming here.

7) will you be still willing to be DH if you couldn't find an ideal job you expected after becoming citizen?

Maybe some will still do, who knows? I would say if they have the chance to have a better opportunity/life they would grab it. LIKE YOU, ME, AND OTHER PEOPLE HERE WHO HAVE AMBITION TO IMPROVE THEY LIVES.

8) what if you couldn't find a job?

Please read my above answer, What if they really can’t find a job? Eventually they will have to go back home and they no longer your problem.

9) what if you couldn't even find DH job again?

Who told you that they couldn’t? You are assuming here again.

10) are you sure you can afford to be permanant residence?

Is this is even a question?

As I mentioned above I want to enlighten you all, I was once a domestic helper. In the first few months I was treated OKAY then I was sexually assaulted. This is not the first time it happened in Hong Kong. I have seen and witnessed a lot of this. I have seen domestic helpers who’ve been starved for weeks by their employers. I have seen a lot of domestic helpers being scolded in the street, kick out in the middle of the night with their clothes in the plastic bag and no where to go. Most of them wouldn't pursue their case because even if they can stay here and fight their case THEY CAN’T WORK here, it is consider as illegal. Most of them give up their case and go home.

VISIT ALL OF THIS SAFE HOUSE (like Bethany House) you will see what I’m talking.

Let me reverse the question then, if you are a domestic helper and you have the chance to become a permanent resident in Hong Kong. Wouldn’t you give up cleaning up toilets, working 16 hours a day, or being scolded in public by your employer?

Every human being have the right to dream, be happy and have choice.

Sometimes we don't have to be smart or to be rich to understand their situation. Lets try to act and think with human compassion…

honkie 14 yrs ago

lilismith

happy for you as you are making 45,000 per month even more than the locals who hold MBA etc., though it doesn't mean it would happen to every DH once they get PR and you can't say for all of them.

honkie 14 yrs ago

Go to the kitchens of Cafe De Coral or Wellcome supermarkets and you will find workers there being scolded by employers by foul languages...being sexually assaulted by their managers...those happen to everywhere!!

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

lilismith - Can you please elaborate more regarding the safehouses you mention? Do DH's go there while awaiting charges to be brought against their employers, or just sleepover for the odd case of getting 'kicked out of the house with only a plastic bag'?

I think you should provide more statistics and media examples because your comment after #10 paints the entire populace of DH employers in HK as either rapists/molesters or mean-spirited.

PS: Fabulous that you're able to get a 45k per month job. It would seem that if you were qualified for this position prior to coming to HK as a FDH, wouldn't it be more prudent to use the existing work visa scheme to apply for the job and expedite obtaining your desired PR status (after 7 years)?

Honkie - it is against the law to sexually assault someone especially an employee, you should take your blinders off cause sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees. Unless of course you approve of sexually assaulting employees/people.

Tune 14 yrs ago

Good gracious Lilismith. Even with a larger situation than yours, I struggle to be able to afford school for my children.

souffleQueen 14 yrs ago

lilismith, you copied babeybibobu's post which now contains a link? Why is that?

And it's Bethune House . The do have the occasional one niter "residence" but they mostly deal with helpers who have ongoing legal cases. At one point, they house two helpers with cancer while undergoing treatment. There are several other shelters but Bethune is one I find to be non-political, non-religious and well organized. Edwina, its head is a personal acquaintance, we met when my group visited the shelter in answer to their "Food Drive" campaign. Anyone can look it up, they always need more support to keep going.

FKKC 14 yrs ago

souffeQueen, you are really smart & sharp. I saw that too but didn't want to point out as I think 'they' are both the same person trying blindly to justify this PR issue which will be a never-ending talk.

Another result would be the HK government may change the FDH stay to lesser years to conquer the 7-year entitlement for PR.

Yonon11 -Immigration is getting about 20 requests from FDH for PR per day? not sure (wasn't really focusing on it ).....heard and saw this guy been interviewed on TV on Sunday.

souffleQueen 14 yrs ago

On behalf of my teacher friends who are still in HK this is for Tune and HKKC

National Organization of Professional Teachers -HK (NOPTI-HK) and I found this link about them http://www.pia.gov.ph/?m=12&fi=p070228.htm&no=69

Then there is The Filipino Nurses Association (FNA) and the Integrated Midwives Association of the Philippines (IMAP) chapters in Hong Kong.

They are legal entity and HK and like my group, get their license from the HK Police and are registered with the Philippine Consulate under Cultural Section.

@ Sicn, it's not about what it right or wrong, it's survival for the most part with the helpers; of working abroad as the "lesser evil" than the looming life below poverty line back home.

lilismith 14 yrs ago

souffleQueen & FKKC,

Sorry guys, I was in the meeting the whole morning. I change it for personal reason. There are some people knows me using that username and they dont know I was sexually assaulted. I guess this still hunts me, my experienced doesn't change the fact that this terrible things happened to me and it continue to depress me every time I see or read this kind of thread.

Tune,

I work hard to reached this position. I have learned the hard way so I always manage difficulty in life.

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

Lilismith or bebay..., whatever...as it seems your effort to enlighten us fail big time..

There is a full paragraph of rapist, sex maniacs, and monstrous employers in HK, followed by an appeal for human compassion. Oh well, that was kind of dramatic to me.

Every now and then, we hear stories about employees being maltreated by their employers, or maids being dishonest, stealing, cheating or abusing the children/elderly. This kind of behavior must not be accepted and tolerated, and that is why we have police and we have a court. One thing I can assure you, Lili/babey is that HK police force and our judicial system are far more efficient and honest than the place where you come from. That is just plain lies when you say you have seen a lot of sexual harassment going on, I am not buying your stories of packing up and go home, hell, you don’t even have to pay your own legal fee to press charges… and yet, you only focus your whole paragraph on how your people being sexually harassed and suffered by the monstrous bosses in HK, and paint a picture of how incompetent our justice system and how immoral the locals are. And yet, when you are able to climb up the career ladder, instead of going back to your country and contribute to however small effort you can, you chose to remain in this SIN city, beats me!!

Congratulation on your personal success story of 45,000. Let us look at the data, Quote from Asian Correspondent.com - “125,000 of almost 300,000 Filipino and Indonesian domestic helpers in the city could spike the city’s population “overnight” by about 17%. As new permanent residents, these household workers can also bring qualified members of the family to Hong Kong – children under 18 years as well as parents and spouses.”

Take into account the number 125,000 excluding their dependents for now, can you guarantee that all of them can be as successful and as determine for success as you?? The 125,000 being 17% of the population hasn’t included their dependents back in the Philippines yet, I will do a conservative guess of maybe 23% (if including dependent) of the population, this is a HUGE number considering how tiny and densely populated HK already is.

The issue is complex and complicated, it has a major impact on the future growth of HK and affects locals way of living, how is human compassion has to do with the policy?? DH has a monthly salary of HKD3740 +free meals and accommodation; they can support their relatives back home, why do they need compassion for??? Asking for human compassion in this regard is not only naïve but ridiculous, unfortunately, compassion just doesn’t fit in the big picture.

BTW, you can't use either username now as you have announced your sexual assaulted experience again!!

punter 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia, only one case was successful (the right to apply for ROA), the other 3 were almost thrown out (the other cases where they applied for ROA). So how many will be given ROA again? Your fear is so baseless.

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia - "Quote from Asian Correspondent.com - “125,000 of almost 300,000 Filipino and Indonesian domestic helpers in the city could spike the city’s population “overnight” by about 17%."

Just like to point out that 17% of overall population is not correct, unless the article means and increase of 17% of the eligible workforce.

In any case, recent article states that 54% of 300,000 FDH qualifies for PR (based on having been in HK for over 7 years). Out of that group, what will the average size of immediate family migration be?

Anyone have statistics about what percentage of people on CSSA are mainlanders/SE asians/NE asians and local 2nd-3rd generation HK'ers?

lilismith 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia

Your ignorance is beyond universe and I don’t even know if you have heart at. Al. First, I’m here to share my personal experience whether you accepted it or not and I don’t care. This thing happened to me.

I’m not here to satisfy you. What I have said about “you can’t find a job if you have a case” is TRUE. And why you are assuming that I don’t know that the HK police force and judiciary system here is far efficient? Did I mention to my initial post that I was not given justice? I wasn’t complaining about my life in Hong Kong and never mention it. So don’t ASSUME.

As I said to the OP, you have the right to be concern. . . And please don’t answer a question if there is no question being asked.

Like you ASSUME that I’m generalizing all the EMPLOYERS.

"There is a full paragraph of rapist, sex maniacs, and monstrous employers in HK, followed by an appeal for human compassion."

Second, I didn’t deny that there are maids stealing, dishonest, cheating et. al.

“Every now and then, we hear stories about employees being maltreated by their employers, or maids being dishonest, stealing, cheating or abusing the children/elderly.

And YES, there is no place for compassion especially to person like you.

Tune 14 yrs ago

Yes, I'm sure Lilismith- however, do you think it's wise of you to wear your heart on your sleeve here on this thread given its pathos? What do you hope to achieve from this mostly unregenerate crowd?

rob378 14 yrs ago

Lilismith, it seems HK is a terrible place for DH helpers to come for work. Maybe you could use your energy to bring greater awareness in your home country of the horrendous treatment DH's will receive here in HK, so that they can perhaps work somewhere else like Saudi Arabia. Or perhaps the reason DH's keep coming to HK is because you are talking about a few incidents out of many thousands??

Tune 14 yrs ago

See what I mean.

Tune 14 yrs ago

And Amparo Kia, please do tell us more about this 'HK social welfare' system that may be impinged on by people from overseas. I always thought locals considered it somewhat elusive.

lilismith 14 yrs ago

rob_378,

I wish I have the power to do that, speaking of Saudi Arabia please watch the link below;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzTKzk0OD5Q

By the way rob_378, my intention is to answer OP's questions and to share my experience. And I think this is what forum is all about. I have nothing against employers non-Chinese or Chinese (regardless of employers race or nationality). I have nothing against Hong Kong Chinese, because I have a Chinese staff and friends too. I have helper and I was helper too. I answered in accordance to her/his questions. If you are a domestic helper and if you have chance to improve your life wouldn't you accept it? especially if you are in difficult circumstances (like what I've seen, witness or experience).

Dolphan,

The safe house that I mentioned was in North Point. I don't know if they are still there. Sorry, that was years ago...

Tune,

Thank you for that, and yes you are right.

mystic1 14 yrs ago

I think for most of the DH's it is not about better salary if they get PR in HK.

It is more about getting out of inhumane conditions they are dished out by locals for the domestic helper, keeping them locked up like criminals and expecting them to be a great nanny, cook, cleaner and server all at the same time with no regard for her feelings and emotions as a human being.

honkie 14 yrs ago

What attitude is it ? It is like HK people FORCE all of you come working like slave in here ???

The agreements were signed under your own WILL ! You get paid like everyone does ! HK people do not owe you anything ! All of you knew DHs are excluded in PR applications once the contracted signed. You can't keep what you have agreed and then now blame us racists.

Many HK people work 12 to 14 hours everyday as well ! We do not get free lunch in here !

punter 14 yrs ago

Honkie, I think the FDHs know that already. However your courts granted them the right to apply for ROA. Is that the FDH's fault? I personally think that you need to bark at your government, not the FDHs.

It's like when you started working for a company they specifically said that there will be no bonus for you, and you signed your employment contract. Then somebody fought for your right to receive such bonus as you're an employee of the company too. Are you going accept the bonus or not? I will.

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

Beancurd - Thank you for letting everyone know your true position, and you maybe speaking on behalf of other DHs, that if push comes to shove you and others will be willing to do anything and everything including being a dishwasher as long as the salary is better than DHs are getting now.

It is exactly this opportunistic attitude that has the locals concerned about their positions being poached. So say if you can not get even a dishwasher job or any other job cause economy is bad and you've been on an unlucky streak, then of course you will rightfully apply for CSSA, is that not correct? It's your right to once you are a permanent resident so why not exercise that right? And why live in cramped spacing or with best friends if you can get your own brand new government subsidized public flat?

You have just made the argument on behalf of everyone against this cannibalistic FDH PR exercise. Thank you very much.

punter 14 yrs ago

Dolphan, you're harping against human nature?

As mentioned, you need to bark at your government for allowing it to happen. It's not the fault of these FHDs that the law allows them to apply for ROA.

However, as mentioned also, it looks like it's very difficult for them to be successful as the cases already in the courts for FDHs applying for ROA appears to be not successful.

FKKC 14 yrs ago

There were 140 applications for PR status in the month of October alone and will definitely multiply!! Those that said that they (or on their behalf) wouldn't be applying were lying through their teeth! The FDH's governments should look after their own people. The HK government is weak but not stupid.

Beermoney 14 yrs ago

FKKC what has the FDH governments got to do with a decision made but the HK courts? Second to this, the yearly number adds up to 0.022% of the population, so what's the big deal.

For a comparison on numbers, Australia accepted 0.6% of the population as new permanent residents who will go on get passports. If you add the long term visitors of another 1.66% which totals 2.26% of the population for the Financial Year 2010‑11.

Immigration is fact of life today and the HK government has one choice to make - PR for all who have done their time, or no PR for anyone. It's their choice.

The current situation of one rule for one and one for another allows for racial comments and it makes HK looks like clowns. With all the things that HK is, and wants to be "a world city" there comes a sense of responsibility. If you want HK to be looked as in the same way as some of the other holes around the world, leave every thing as is.

Expensive shops and tall building don't make a city, people do as well as a country with an understanding of fairness. Sooner or later the façade falls off the tall buildings and expensive shops and you are still left with a rotten core.

FKKC 14 yrs ago

Beermoney

Thank you for doing all YOUR thinking for the HK government!

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

Punter - If its human nature to contravene contracts for self-profligated gains through the cannibalism of others and their livelihoods, then yes the prior post is harping against human nature.

Also, you have given too much credit to the creative bunch that work in the HKSAR government with your assumption that they had foresight on the matter. Sure you can blame them for the existence of the loophole, heck even for implementing the FDH scheme in the first place. Why stop there?

Why not just call a spade a spade and the loophole users opportunistic abusers (which they appear to be).

Lee2051 14 yrs ago

It seems to me a simple matter of protection of workers' rights. The whole immigrant labor thing, in any country, and under any circumstances, is corrupt and inexcusable. It's simply a way for employers to get cheaper, more vulnerable workers outside of the laws that protect those with some legal status in the nations in which they work. If you need or want the labor of FDWs, then they have the same rights of abode, family status, and other legal protections as anyone else. I assume this is what the courts are recognizing. As for the "It's worse in Saudi Arabia," "We want to keep our ethnic makeup," etc., those all come under the banner of "not relevant" (to say the least).

punter 14 yrs ago

Dolphan, those are actually my points. People in government all over the world have legislative bodies to craft laws to (ideally) make everything smooth. In the course of doing so, many mistakes are done. People suffer because of these mistakes (some take advantage of it). You're right, even the FDH scheme is a creation of "government", so why blame the FDHs?

Put yourself in an FDH's shoe for example. If you're allowed to apply for ROA, are you not going to do it?

As for contravening the contract, do you have the exact wordings of a FDH contract where it says they can't apply for ROA after 7 years of stay in HK?

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

Lee2051 - "If you need or want the labor of FDWs, then they have the same rights of abode, family status, and other legal protections as anyone else. I assume this is what the courts are recognizing."

There are existing laws and regulations regarding treatment of employees include FDH, as well as existing employment scheme with direct pathway to PR status. The court is writing a check that the government can't cash. Simple.

Punter - At issue is immigration ordinance vs. Basic law. The said contract is between the Immigration dept. and FDH when the 'workers visa' is issued.

beancurd - I do clean my own toilets, I take my own clothes to the laundymat downstairs. If I require heavy duty cleaning in my flat, I have the option of calling a cleaning service in my neighborhood. My position has been clear in this post. I do not see why we in HK should be sending close to HK$1 Billion each month in remittances to support crony inept regional governments.

The HK government is being handcuffed by the high courts and Beancurd you've already stated in your prior (or 2nd prior) post that you plan to milk it. Enough said. Thank you.

evildeeds 14 yrs ago

The idiot who wrote the article in Asian Correspondent should be bought to task and asked directly:

1. Why would PR who were former FDH be allowed to break current immigration rules in sponsoring dependants?

I'd be interested in the answer. As is more than well known even local Chinese born and bred here have to satisfy certain criteria before their spouses, etc are allowed into HK. If that's not fear mongering, what is?

As an aside is there really a fear of pressure on the social welfare system, or lower end jobs, or are people worried that jobs that require English language skills would go to former FDH?

There were 140 applications for PR in the month of October alone we are told. More fear mongering. It never mentioned DH applications, just 140 applications. That suits the government The simple take it in.

I think what astounds me, particularly with what I've mentioned is that supposedly intelligent people, those who are usually at the higher end of the wage scale here in HK fall for this rubbish as easily as those who don't have the benefit of education - just witness the above. And people are worried about FDH becoming PR?

What's required is rational debate, so far it's all been about emotion and fear mongering. People need to step away from all that and sit down and have a proper rational discussion and feed it out to the population in a mature and rational way. So far the government have shown nothing but kindergarten tactics and again that's worrying. Who's next?

punter 14 yrs ago

Dolphan, can you expand on your comment regarding the contract between the Immigration Department and the FDH when the visa is issued?

Your clarification will help many here who haven't heard of it. If you can't, you will be accused of mouthing something that you don't really know anything about.

rob378 14 yrs ago

Who is Daphane? But anyway, the definition of milking is to exploit.

FKKC 14 yrs ago

Quote from evildeeds 'What's required is a rational debate' unquote and then he turns around using harsh wordings like idiot, rubbish & stepping down on everyone he wants to. What a superficial person he is! He thinks he's the superior judge of all.

honkie 14 yrs ago

HK people would be able to find a way to survive without FDHs I believe

Please terminate the entire FDHs scheme

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

Punter - This is what the legal battle is over...

Copied from Section 2- page 4 - Immigration Ordinance

References in this Ordinance to an offence under this Ordinance include references to an offence under

section 90(1) of the Criminal Procedure Ordinance (Cap 221) where the arrestable offence which a person has

committed is an offence under this Ordinance.

(4) For the purposes of this Ordinance, a person shall not be treated as ordinarily resident in Hong Kong-

(a) during any period in which he remains in Hong Kong- (Amended 122 of 1997 s. 2)

(i) with or without the authority of the Director, after landing unlawfully; or (Amended 122 of 1997

s. 2)

(ii) in contravention of any condition of stay; or (Amended 122 of 1997 s. 2)

(iii) as a refugee under section 13A; or (Added 42 of 1982 s. 2)

(iv) while detained in Hong Kong under section 13D; or (Added 23 of 1989 s. 2)

(v) while employed as a contract worker, who is from outside Hong Kong, under a Government

importation of labour scheme; or (Added 122 of 1997 s. 2)

(vi) while employed as a domestic helper who is from outside Hong Kong; or (Added 122 of 1997 s.

2)

(vii) as a member of a consular post within the meaning of the Consular Relations Ordinance (Cap

557); or (Added 122 of 1997 s. 2. Amended 16 of 2000 s. 12)

(viii) as a member of the Hong Kong Garrison; or (Added 122 of 1997 s. 2)

(ix) as a holder of a prescribed Central People's Government travel document; or (Added 31 of 2002

s. 2)

(b) during any period, whether before or after the commencement of this Ordinance, of imprisonment or

detention pursuant to the sentence or order of any court.

http://www.legislation.gov.hk/blis_export.nsf/CurAllEngDocAgent%3FOpenAgent%26Chapter%3D115&sa=U&ei=bDezTuagF6fMmAWPxOzeAQ&ved=0CBIQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNG2bSPnEqAjjoAe_mYyJTlVtg4VVw

englishsuccess 14 yrs ago

Your argument holds little water Honkie. If a a FDH couldn't find work in another capacity they would simply go home. Same as any one else I've seen over 11 years does with no income. Nobody wants to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world with no job or money. Forget the burden on the state thing. It won't happen. Move on.

songyu 14 yrs ago

we honkies have survived living in many different western countries without having FDH around to clean up our toilets or wipe our floors, why now that we return here living in our own country we need to have FDH to clean up our toilets. it's time now for all honkies to grow up and be responsible with our own life. tell your spouse to be more active doing household works, tell your husband to start removing trash and to walk the dogs, tell your children to clean up their own rooms and to tie up their own shoelaces. allow the FDH to return to their respective countries to build up their own countries with whatever skills they have. Their sending money to their countries won't do anything good because their governments are so corrupt, and we are indirectly supporting their governments people to be more corrupt. my two-cents!!!

punter 14 yrs ago

What's the point of posting that Dolphan? Where's the contract between the FDH and the Immigration Dept that says the FDH should not apply for ROA?

Item vi was the item that the courts of Hong Kong has decided to be unconstitutional.

songyu 14 yrs ago

what is 'professionals'?

watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qqqVwM6bMM

englishsuccess 14 yrs ago

Songyu...sing the praises of how adept you are to coping with lots of different situations and the fact that you can clean a toilet all you want. Good for you. However, you've totally missed the point, which is: You cannot speak for everyone. Hong Kong people march on July 1st to keep the idea of certain freedoms and liberties alive and yet most people on this post believe they can speak for everyone.

Course, the other reason for all the kerfuffle is that it is the Philippines that we are talking about here.

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

Songyu and madtown, you two are absolutely right about this maid scheme, it spoils HK people and it is time we need to have a closer look and be more productive in raising our own children rather than depending on the maids.

And do a huge favour to these domestic helpers and their government by stop issuing working visa for them so they can reunite with their family and use whatever skills they have to build their own country.

As to the question of “ The question is what HK will do if no more FDH” or “All you have to do now is to start training yourself to clean your own toilet.”

So what will happen to HK if there is no maids in HK? Below is an excerpt from Arab News:

No more work visas for Filipino, Indonesian domestics

By GHAZANFAR ALI KHAN I ARAB NEWS

Published: Jun 29, 2011 19:13 Updated: Jun 29, 2011 23:30

RIYADH: The Kingdom on Wednesday said it will no longer hire Indonesian and Filipino domestic workers, citing strict requirements and "unfair" regulatory provisions imposed by the two Southeast Asian countries.

“The Ministry of Labor will stop issuing work visas for domestic workers for the Philippine and Indonesia from Saturday (July 2),” said Hattab Bin Saleh Al-Anzi, a spokesman of the Ministry of Labor.

Al-Anzi said that Saudi recruitment agents would recruit domestic workers including maids from different countries other than Indonesia and the Philippines. The ministry’s decision comes after some other “labor exporting countries have evinced keen interest” to send domestic helpers to work for Saudi families, said the spokesman, adding that the ban on recruitment will be followed strictly.

Complete story link : http://www.arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article464001.ece

If the Arab can do it, I am sure HongKongers could too. After all, washing dishes, doing laundry are hardly high skill work, it doesn’t need a rocket scientist to do it. As the saying goes : no one is indispensable..

punter 14 yrs ago

I'm glad the this discussion now seems to focus on the real issue. I'm sure Hong Kong people can survive without FDHs.

souffleQueen 14 yrs ago

Amparo, Saudi stopped issuing work visa for dh from Indonesia and Philippines, NOT stopping hiring them all together. You have a funny way of interpreting even the news to support your views. And i thought your response to lilismith was one off.

@ Englishsuccess : it is not about The Philippines, or the Filipino people but about domestic helpers from ALL foreign countries. It is discriminating but NOT a racial discrimination.

@ Dolphan-- beancurd was trying to illustrate that Filipino people, in general , have pride and believes that labour, is honour. So yes, we will try to make ends meet, live within our means OTHER THAN milk the welfare system. Drop the prejudice and re read again.

@ lilismith-- np, I understand but I do agree with Tune.

@FKCC it has nothing to do with being smart, unlike you, I asked, instead of assumed the worse. But, than you nonetheless.

Tune 14 yrs ago

While I can empathize with Hong Kong people who feel that it is right to show some concern about an influx of new migrants into their society. I can not agree with many of the naive posts on this thread such as :

'If the Arab can do it, I am sure HongKongers could too.'

Yes the Arabs, a shining example to humanity.

And:

'After all, washing dishes, doing laundry are hardly high skill work'- which really made me chuckle. Are you sure about this one Amparo Kia?, those washing machines can be a bit technical.

FKKC 14 yrs ago

souffleQueen

I didn't assumed anything....I take it back....you are not that smart after all!! BTW, not sharp either.

honkie 14 yrs ago

For your reference, there are around 140 applications for PR by DHs till now, 100 times more than last two months...More are coming and disaster is coming soon!!! More DHs have been "living" in HK for more than 7 years next year and another bunch of applications

Do the maths please. I really doubt if the market will be capable to offer so many jobs??

souffleQueen 14 yrs ago

All these huffing and puffing. Can anyone remember when the Immigration changed it mandatory for helpers to go home/exit HK after each contract if not earlier???? Do anyone remember why???

There lies the answer why only a handful will get ROA, if at all.

FKKC-- no problem, it does not make me any less sharp or smart either. But in case a clarification is needed I did not said/implied that you did.

honkie 14 yrs ago

punter - dare you behave you know the current situation about HK very well !!!! You don't even know we have a centralized data in bank industry like ten years ago. I saw your reply on other thread and you said banks in HK do not keep personal data like debts record...Are you kidding me? Perhaps the corrupted countries like your motherland doesn't!!!

honkie 14 yrs ago

the expats worked in my company had not had two weeks to stay once their work visa expired

honkie 14 yrs ago

HK government has been too kind! If it happened in

US, you will just being sent back to your country just now!!!

punter 14 yrs ago

What's your problem Honkie? Are you against all expats?

You post as though you don't trust your government to do the right thing. We have said it many times, application for ROA will not automatically mean approval. I'm sure that only a few, if ever, will be granted ROA.

I have trust in the Hong Kong government that it will be able to resolve this problem without it losing its "name" as a city ruled by law.

englishsuccess 14 yrs ago

Honkie, you're all confused. It's supply and demand that's all. No need to level arguments at any particular country, it's HK we're talking about.

Have a think about it, do you really think that the SAR will suddenly say "right FDH's on your bike?" You can vote with your feet and say "I don't need a FDH, I will do it myself" and good for you. But... sigh, you don't hold office and therefore can't speak for the ones that do want/need...

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

souffleQueen, you're right, my post does look funny, I was supposed to cut and paste from my last post but I forgot. and I should make my point clearer

it should be : If the Arab can do it, I am sure HongKongers could too. Without the Foreign Domestic helpers, I am thinking it will even give the non-skill immigrants from Mainland a chance to get a job and get out of the welfare system. After all, washing dishes, doing laundry are hardly highly skill work, it doesn’t need a rocket scientist to do it. As the saying goes : no one is indispensable..The Arabs can replace one nationality of workers from another countries and HK can have part-time local amah take over

Tune, thank you for the "naive" reply. We are here discussing foreign domestic helper and I am merely looking at how other countries approach/adapt to foreign domestic helper program, what has Arab's attitudes towards humanity has anything to do with the topic on hand.

"Yes the Arabs, a shining example to humanity.", that sarcastic comment and your general categorizing of Arabs, only shows how shallow and narrow minded a person you are.

'After all, washing dishes, doing laundry are hardly high skill work'- which really made me chuckle. I am glad it is so easy to make you chuckle, cause you sure made me lol, . ":Are you sure about this one Amparo Kia?, those washing machines can be a bit technical.", Well, I am 100% sure. Hello i am talking about doing laundry as in washing dirty clothes using a washing machine, I am not talking about assembling or dismantling a washing machine, how technical can it be??!!! I am confused, are you telling me you find it hard to operate a simple washing machine, No wonder you chuckle when i say those simple chores are not any highly skill work

Tune 13 yrs ago

A rather conclusive close on me no? However, given that most, not all, of my posts have been largely impartial or of a questioning nature, unlike your unkind nefarious comments...do please check and consider your chosen vocabulary before firing of another unsubstantiated retort, I'm not entirely sure I can concur with you.

honkie 13 yrs ago

Philippines is a country with discrimination not HK I guess? It doesn't grant PR to foreigners no matter how many years they work there!!! Citizens from US do not need visa for entering HK but HK people do need this for entering US. Though why not Japanese? Are HK people more low class than Japanese? Should I say US government is racist? Should HK people sue US government? I don't hate DHs at all but the attitude of some of them who take it as granted.

punter 13 yrs ago

I worked in Manila for a few years and I didn't find a need to get permanent residency. The only advantage you get is the right to purchase property in your name. I thought they now have a program wherein you can get some kind of citizenship or special visa if you start a business and hire locals.

Manila is so friendly to gweilos though, they/most think whites are handsome even if you're not. They/most think all whites are wealthy too. I guess that's discrimination.

punter 13 yrs ago

So another high profile FDH application for ROA was denied by the court. It doesn't bode well for other applicants, does it? As expected, only a few if ever will be granted ROA/PR. Fear of great influx of FDHs and their families with ROA was totally out of place! So many HK locals were mistaken on this issue.

Philly Cheese 13 yrs ago

To prove permanent residency they will have to prove they have established permanent ties here. Things like bank accounts, property, children in schools, club memberships, self-owned business, investments, etc. Having a HK telephone number, belonging to a church congregation and having friends will not be enough. Lots of wiggle room for immigration officials to deny a request.

poison 13 yrs ago

Filipino DHS should never ever get a permanent residency here in HK or else every wife of a husband here in hk is going to lose her husband. Come on people, open up your eyes and face the reality. these DHs come here for work and for something else too, and that is the relationship with this employer-the husband,father,son. they crave for men. You're thinking of providing service-what kind of service do these DHs provide? They wear indecent clothes infront of their employers to seduce them,have sex with them and then after months,claim that they r pregnant with his baby,just so that the employer wil have to marry her and she will get a permanent citizenship! lots of these cases are happening in HK. i have seen many wives crying in agony-their husbands left them because of these maids! They work but they are also husband snatchers!

my friend once told me that at a certain pizza hut, a filipino lady was working late shifts and every morning when my friend used to go to that pizza hut for her shift, she would see so many used condoms on the floor. so this is the service these filipinoes provide. they take care of the house,go to grocery stores,care for babies,do washing and all and the biggest thing-sleep with the employers!This is also another thing they get paid for.i am not against the filipinoes or anything like that nor am i looking down on them,but i am just pointing out the fact.

Hong kong is way much better than having these DHs here. Women will start to become more responsible in taking good care of their houses by themselves instead of throwing everything on the maids. Even their husbands would depend more on the maids instead of on their wives. This is really not good. Every women should be warned of how cunning these filipino maids are. They want to get PR at any cost.Even if they have to do such cheap things,they wont hesitate.because there is nothing at their country so they'r dying to get HK permanent.

punter 13 yrs ago

Get a grip of yourself poison. Your other posts in this site doesn't paint a good pictures of yourself when you post sentiments like this one.

seablues24 13 yrs ago

Poison, sounds like you have been seriously victimized, sorry. Either that or you are just a garden variety racist. Oh well. Face it, many are just smarter than you. Yup have to keep them out.

mariajohnson 13 yrs ago

@Poison, you are such a #!tc? and selfish! get a life...

lil mama 13 yrs ago

Poison: if I would be a man I would not cheat on you because I will never marry a person like you in the first place. Get a life!!!!

Tune 13 yrs ago

'Women will start to become more responsible in taking good care of their houses by themselves'- A rather,...bold, claim mam?

prettygirl 13 yrs ago

Poison, you are really talking about A REFLECTION of YOURSELF... I feel sorry for you girl!

rob378 13 yrs ago

I havent read poisons other posts, but pointing out something negative is not racism. And it seems that poison is not the only one to share those views.

rocky 24 13 yrs ago

Im an australian guy who works as a kindy teacher, if im allowed to get hk residency so should any other nationality working in H.K. So either let helpers who work for 7 consecutive years have the right to citizenship...or dont let anyone have the right.

Robbie28 13 yrs ago

I agree with the creator of this thread!

Specific Advice

Regionally Shared Advice

Posted by honkie 14 yrs ago

Yardie 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

Yardie 14 yrs ago

lagrue 14 yrs ago

punter 14 yrs ago

markers 14 yrs ago

bing2 14 yrs ago

illmatic 14 yrs ago

Yardie 14 yrs ago

bing2 14 yrs ago

honkie 14 yrs ago

Yardie 14 yrs ago

bing2 14 yrs ago

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

mariajohnson 14 yrs ago

bing2 14 yrs ago

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honkie 14 yrs ago

sicn 14 yrs ago

lagrue 14 yrs ago

bing2 14 yrs ago

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Hugie 14 yrs ago

FKKC 14 yrs ago

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

Hugie 14 yrs ago

punter 14 yrs ago

Tune 14 yrs ago

punter 14 yrs ago

Typhoon 14 yrs ago

punter 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

FKKC 14 yrs ago

sellmystuffhk 14 yrs ago

punter 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

punter 14 yrs ago

honkie 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

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punter 14 yrs ago

homely 14 yrs ago

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

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homely 14 yrs ago

homely 14 yrs ago

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homely 14 yrs ago

rob378 14 yrs ago

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

rob378 14 yrs ago

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songyu 14 yrs ago

Tune 14 yrs ago

souffleQueen 14 yrs ago

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souffleQueen 14 yrs ago

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rob378 14 yrs ago

babeybibobu 14 yrs ago

Amparo Kia 14 yrs ago

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honkie 14 yrs ago

Dolphan 14 yrs ago

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souffleQueen 14 yrs ago

FKKC 14 yrs ago

souffleQueen 14 yrs ago

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