Kids ignoring our helper

We moved to HK nearly a year ago with our 2 kids (ages 3 & 5 at the time) and hired our first helper, "Rosa". I work part-time, so Rosa needs to mind the kids after school a few days a week and put them to bed 2-3 times a week. From nearly day-one my kids have ignored/disregarded nearly everything Rosa has told them. I'm the first to admit that my kids are not the easiest to mind. They are pretty high energy and rarely listen the first time I say something, but they do ultimately listen to me & my husband. For the past year I've tried every tactic I can think of or have read about to get my kids to listen to Rosa and do as she says. Mostly it's been talking to the kids about respecting all adults, punishing them (no TV, no playdate, no snack before bed, no story before bed), or rewarding them (earned TV time, sticker chart, over-the-top praise), nothing I've tried so far is getting them to behave better for Rosa. I've talked to Rosa a bunch of times about how to discipline the kids (no spanking, but re-direction, time-outs or natural consequences are ok), she's seen me do it first hand for nearly a year, but she says when she tries to discipline them they laugh at her, ignore her or are just plain disrespectful. This is absolutely not acceptable to me.


According to their teachers, the kids behave perfectly at school, so I'm thinking the problem is either Rosa or me & my husband (for not being able to make our kids behave when we aren't here). My husband thinks the problem is Rosa (he sees her as being too laid back to keep the kids in check), so either we find a new helper or I stop working to be at home more with the kids.


I'm wondering if it is foolish to think that any other helper in HK would be different. Am I expecting too much or too little of Rosa? If you were me, would you look for another helper? She's great otherwise - good cook, cleans well, excellent attitude, very kind -- it's just she's not been able to keep the kids from completely running amuck when that is her #1 job.


Any advice or constructive criticism is appreciated.

There is probably not one single reason for this as you possibly suspect. If the kids often ignore you and now know they can ignore Rosa without consequence it is learned behavior. How do they behave with other adults in the home? Remember guests are often special because they bring treats but how about long term friends and other family members? Replacing Rosa will likely make no difference unless the replacement is very firm and tough, expect lots of tantrums and crying. When you are there be sure to back Rosa up and make it known that Rosa will report any difficulties in a “wait till your farther gets home scenario” where the consequences are real. It would be a real shame to lose an otherwise good worker for what might be at best no better and at worst a retrograde step in other duties. There is no quick fix but be firm and consistent and results will come

I would suggest you and your husband sitting down and talk to them with your helper Rosa present and letting them know that she is in charge when they are out of the house.


Given their ages I think you should put together a rewards chart listing the desired behaviour/s and explain to them how it works and let them decide on a reward (preferable not money/toys but instead maybe a family outing to park/disney/movies/one-on-one time with dad etc). and once they receive X number of 'stars/stickers' (maybe 10?) that they will get the reward (and you must follow through with the reward).


Then when you get home everyday ask Rosa in front of them whether they have listened and deserve a 'star'. I would also let them know if they are really playing up that Rosa will call you immediately (maybe she can just use it as a 'threat' to remind them to follow the rewards chart) and if she does have to call you there will be a consequence (eg. no TV for a day or 2 - and you must follow through on the consequence). Hopefully the reward will help them with the desired behaviours.


Good Luck!

Our ayis [helpers] are Chinese nationals - we live on the mainland - and one of the issues that we deal with is that there are a couple of cultural skews that make it very hard for either of our ayis to really discipline the kids: first, there is a school of thought that kids should never cry; second, the average Chinese employer would probably fire a helper that they caught disciplining their child [not just spankings, but even speaking crossly to the child].


What we have done is to make it absolutely clear to the kids that they need to have better behavior for the ayis than they have for us. The way we have done this is basically to treat the ayi as the third parent: we intervene each and every time that we hear the kids talking back to or ignoring the ayis when we are at home. Gently, but we do push the kids to apologize for rude behavior or point out that ayi has asked them a question. We also make it clear to the kids that when ayi is in charge, she may have some slightly different rules than we do. Slowly, the ayis are also beginning to expect the kids to listen and assert themselves when the kids act up, but I doubt that they will ever discipline the kids. We also make it crystal clear to the ayis that there are to be no treats following an episode of misbehavior. And we tell the kids to save the shenanigans for their parents!


The other thing is that we have been lucky in that we can stick to a pretty good schedule - and we really parcel out the toxic times of the day. For example, I play with the kids while ayi makes supper; she feeds them; their dad does teethbrushing and bath; I get their pjs on; dad reads stories; I talk about their day and then sing songs. Nobody has tired kids for more than a half hour at a time. I remember when I was a kid, we pretty much ignored my mom but straightened up for my dad [but then, she was stuck in the house with a herd of children all day and was always going on about something....]

Completely agree with Z. Its much better to deal with in an ongoing way like this. One reason is that we live in a high-context culture, so people pay much more attention to situational clues and adapt accordingly. Although my own kid isn't old enough to really misbehave yet Ive seen a lot of this pandering to spoilt behaviour ect. in other people's homes and routinely reinforce and stick up for the ayi and it works. With kids there is always a lot of things you might say also to make them appreciate the ayi more and cooperate.



If you want to make a bit of a new start. I would try talking to the kids first, not the ayi. I might try the approach (if they are 8 or under): Look a bit strict and say, "I've decided to get a new ayi because this one is too nice. I've found a strict one that won't let you play computer games... do other fun things ect. I think she is really good. She will come tomorrow and you she told me you must .... before she comes and be ready ....". After about 5 minutes the kids should be pleading not to get the new authority figure that you say that even YOU listen to and respect and think is right. This is the time to ask for concessions! After you can tell them it's okay and you will keep the ayi but if you see or hear of .... again the new ayi will have to come.

You misunderstand. I didn't say actually get a new ayi, since Im not sure the strict Chinese ayi really exists anyway and Im not sure firing anybody will solve the problem. Changing staff with kids is also not such a good idea. It's just so the kids think a little about the possibility and appreciate the ayi they have. I find talking through the situation and letting them understand everyone's feelings and ideas and possible consequences is useful.


As for punishments I do something similar with my students that usually revolves around delaying new books that I will give them or 'Science toys' such as magnets or new experiements such as simple chromatography.