Why HK? Your view...

Hi everyone. I have visited HK a few times and love the place. I am a Quantity surveyor and live in the UK. My wife works for a large bank.


I would love to live in Hong Kong for at least a couple of years. The problem is my wife has never been.


It would be great to hear from expats living and working in Hong Kong. What would 5 positive and 5 negatives be of living and working there? And overall, yes to HK or no? We have no kids

Madtown's points are all excellent. Here are my lists, which overlap madtown's quite a bit. Starred points are different:


The top five negative aspects of life in HK that come to mind at this moment are:


1.) Pollution. It is, as madtown has already said, really incredibly astoundingly bad. HK is located right next to the largest agglomeration of inefficient, heavily-polluting factories on Earth. Welcome to the world of chronic sore throats, stuffy noses, postnasal drip, and (possibly) sinus infections.


2.) Crowding. There are a lot of people living here and the government, which owns all of the land, has worked with the property development cartels to corral the population into the smallest possible amount of space, in (mostly) highrise apartment buildings. Sidewalks are narrow in most areas as well. Think of the street scenes in the old movie "Soylent Green". Try to avoid going outside on weekends (especially Sundays) or public holidays to avoid the worst of it. There is a lot of elbowing and people will walk into you as though you were invisible. Also, especially at peak times, people tend to board elevators and trains as though they were the last means of escape before the arrival of some sort of apocalypse. Visualize evacuees scrambling to get onto the last helicopter leaving the roof of the US embassy in Saigon on the morning of April 29th, 1975. It's not quite that bad.


* 3.) Noise. Finding peace and quiet is well nigh impossible. People tend to speak at a much higher volume here than in some other parts of the world (note: unless people are pointing fingers at each other, the screaming/shouting that you hear is probably just friendly banter). Also, because buildings here aren't built to last and basically end up being heavily renovated every 5-10 years and torn down and rebuilt after 30 or so years, there's a constant high level of (re)construction, resulting in lots of noise and vibration. Wherever you would end up living, it's likely that someone within a couple of floors of you will always be renovating their apartment. Apartments here are built of cement, so there's a lot of jackhammering, drilling, tacitcal nuclear demolition, etc. involved.


* 4.) General absence of empathy and/or fear of getting involved. If something bad happens to you, you can't expect anyone else to come to your assistance or intervene on your behalf, especially outside of the more Westernized areas. People will pass by, gawp at you, and walk on. If you're hurt or injured in the immediate vicinity of a building with a security guard, that guard may phone the police or emergency services. In a series of posts in another thread, for instance, someone is describing the experience of being physically threatened in public (while walking his child to school) on multiple occasions by a mentally ill person and, when the police showed up, the guy had run off, none of the bystanders spoke up, and the police officer wasn't interested in pursuing the matter. Completely plausible.


* 5.) Inconvenience and lowering of expectations. You may be used to going to an office supply store when you need, say, envelopes or pens or visiting a home improvement store when you need screws or a tool and driving relatively quickly and easily from one to the other on the same day. Here, getting anything but groceries and this week's most popular and expensive piece of electronics is an enormous hassle. There are no superstores or one-stop sorts of places. Nearly everything is sold through individual little shops the size of your living room. If you want to get some screws, for example, you may have to travel to "Screw Street" (via taxi or minibus + walking or MTR + walking -- in the heat and humidity that madtown has mentioned), which will inevitably be located in a dilapidated district with buildings that are literally crumbling in front of your eyes (as there's not much profit in selling the small-ticket items that every household needs from time to time). You'll have to step into half a dozen or so shops before, if you're lucky, finding one that has what you need. Now, if you want to get those envelopes, you'll need to hail a taxi or walk back to the MTR station to take the train to a district that has an Envelopes Street. If you're lucky, you might have passed a little stationary shop on your way to Screw Street that has some envelopes. They won't be the ones that you wanted, of course, but by that point you'll be drenched with sweat and eager to settle for nearly anything.


The top five positive aspects of life in HK that come to mind at this moment are:


1.) Money. Unless you're going to be making a lot more (remember to factor in housing costs here) than you would back in the UK, though, it may not matter.


2.) English is widely spoken. Proficiency is declining steadily but probably not enough that you would notice the difference if you only stayed for a few years.


3.) Mass transit. Safe in terms of violent crime. If you do use taxis and find yourself able to choose between an older driver and a younger driver, I would generally go with the older driver. Their English is likely to be better, they tend to drive less dangerously, etc. The MTR is quite good but then you've got to spend a great deal of time walking to the station and then from the station to your destination and then to another station and so on.


4.) Healthcare. The hospital system in HK is straining under the burden of providing (more profitable) care and services to the wealthiest slice of society from across the border, but still generally delivers the goods and relatively inexpensively to boot.


5.) Domestic help. Rent and everything tangible in HK is expensive but labor (especially imported labor) is cheap. If they've been in HK for a while, working for other families, they may be able to do a lot of the endless errands (buying lightbulbs on Lightbulb Street, etc.), saving you a lot of time.

If you and your wife want to experience life in a different place, Hong Kong has some advantages.


I won't give you 5 points either way, the above posts are pretty descriptive.


However, be aware that you wife will not be able to work, living in a relatively small flat and being hemmed in by lots of people can be a bit stultifying. You will be away from friends and family (although this applies wherever you go internationally) and it can be hard to form meaningful relationships - many expats are only in the place for a limited period and therefore tend to take a casual view towards others (that said, I have made some lifelong friendships). The long, hot, humid summers take a bit of getting used to - however, at least there is a bit of variety in the weather, unlike in places like Singapore where every day is pretty much the same as the day before.


On the plus side, Hong Kong must be the safest place on earth. Just about, anyway. It is also pretty convenient for international travel.

Firstly your wife will be much happier here than you job wise but anyway here are my five eses.


On the bad side


No one understands a word you are saying, especially in an emergency

No gardens in general just human kennels in the sky

The sky is polluted and badly at that

Its tiny and easily becomes ultra boring

At parties adults talk about is property and sex and not much else.

Infidelity is a major problem, as gold digging is considered an honourable skill.


Ooops thas just over five but no hard feat.


On the plus side


Its close to all those lovely SEA destinations for instant getaways

Er um Oh yea you can still get genuine cup cakes, stay away from the designer (wretch) stuff.

Winter is lovely clear skies (well sometime) and cool breezes.

Is that almost five....oh no

Er Buffets are sometimes on special?

Food .....bring a sandwich in Tupperware, ooops wrong section

Shopping

Shopping

Is better in Thailand and also one of those Instant getaways.

last but not least Lang kwa fong, where you can see more drunken gweillos than back home, only these are wildlife liberated from their sad moral compases, enjoy.

Lived here for 16 years and you get used to most of the 'cons' mentioned - the main 'con' is the air pollution which the govt is trying to fix. The main 'pro' is not having to worry about being burgled or getting your head kicked in of an evening (from a Brit's point of view). Anyway, here is my 'pro' and 'con' list.


Good

1) Security (see above) and completely 'chav free'

2) Good education for kids (you can put very young kids through the local Chinese-language system - which is ultra-competitive - or opt for the intl system if you have more cash. However it's now hard to get into English-speaking schools so for many this is a 'con').

3) Loads of things to do and study - all very easy to get to.

4) Low tax. You can save quite a bit of money if you don't try to live too much of a western lifestyle

5) Great healthcare


Cons


1) Air-pollution can be very bad though it's not as bad as a few years ago

2) Small flats (but you do get used to them)

3) A long way from Europe - though you are, of course, closer to Thailand, Australia etc

4) It can be transitory with friends leaving. This is more of a problem as you get older

5) If you come here with kids over 6 years old and they go to international schools and don't learn Chinese, then in later life they will be in a situation where they can't speak the language of their home town (that's assuming mum and dad stay on long term).

Aside from what's been already covered, a major pro is the new found attention you'll get from pretty young HK girls (both in the work and non-work setting)...

Not just pretty young HK girls. There are many pretty young women from all over SE Asia working here. HK is a graveyard for expat marriages as there are so many distractions for the husband. Expats (and locals) usually work very long hours while spouse is at home, bored witless, all leading to tension and arguments. Few marriages survive the pressure for more than a few years in my experience.

Positive aspects in order of importance to me:


-- Safety (for a city of 7 million, it could hardly be safer)

-- Greatest public transportation in the world (trams, ferries, mini-buses, double-decker buses, cable cars, trains, taxis)

-- Healthcare (private and public)

-- Extraordinary rural, urban and residential beauty (I find beauty in walking the crowded streets of Mongkok or the beautiful outer islands or the beaches and residential area of Repulse Bay and Stanley or Central, Wanchai and Causeway Bay area)

-- Hong Kong is the gateway to mainland China. We live in a region of the world that is growing and becoming increasingly more important. This is where things are happening.


Negative aspects:


-- Pollution

-- Expensive

-- Not enough vegetarian restaurants


I have lived in some of the most beautiful cities in the world and yet for me there is no other place I would want to be more than Hong Kong. Whenever I travel abroad, I always look forward to coming home to Hong Kong.


p.s. Having lived in Hong Kong for many years, I have never experienced a boring day! Bad days perhaps, but never boring!

Hk is not great for Surveyors from a salary persective. Perhaps with an extended CV would be great. Send your CV's to the Contractors. They are busy building infrastructure galore.


If you are looking for quality of life you ought to go to Canada, etc. Asia is all about the melting pot, HK makes the pot easier to accept with very little risks.

My five cents worth for your consideration:

Cons:


1) Air Pollution

2) Expensive living to most extents

3) Communication (for an English speaking person)

4) Crowdedness

5) Brown Nosing to China



Pros:


1) Public transportation

2) Hikes and Walks (some great beaches and hill top views)

3) Taxes

4) Gov't transparency

5) multicultural internationalism (Food and People)

Hi Welshy.

My husband and I moved from Uk to HK (1st time ever living abroad), in our mid to late 50's, originally for a 2 yrs contract, max 3.

Here we are now in our 60's four years later, we didn't mind when the contract was extended, because we have had a wonderfull time here. My husbands company wants to keep him till he is 65 at least, however we have always said that we want to live back in Europe near the children and grandchildren earlier than that.

Due to recession in 2007 we couldn't sell our house in Uk, so we rent it out, it was always our plan to buy a Villa in Spain, which we have done and paid for because of my husband working here, and it is much nicer than the one we could have bought if we had stayed in the UK.

There is a possibility your wife could get a job if she wanted to, but there is always lots of volunatary work she could do if she didn't need to work.

ie. helping with local charity fund raising, fostering dogs or cats (even children).

There are lots of ways you could both meet new friends, gyms, tennis, swimming, Dragon boat team, hiking, wining and dining in the many restaurants, joining a local amatuer drama company, joining some great musicians for a jam session if you play any type of musical instrument, etc etc.So many! life certainly is not boring if you look around.

There are many theatres, if you like to see shows or artists, and some 'big' artists always do tours here. I used to dread going to the theater in Uk in the West end, because it would take at least 2 hours to gets home, then we had to travel on trains which didn't always run on time, and were full of drunks late at night.

Since I have lived here I have been to many shows regularly, and the transport is fantastic and very reasonable, and we feel very safe.

I have found the local people of hK very nice, and always willing to help, I often venture around the 'more remote' areas with just a street map-which i always carry, occasionally I have got a bit lost, and if I have happened to ask somebody the right way, if they don't speak any English then they will tend to shrug their shoulders and walk on.

Housing size in HK varies depending on the area you want to live in, so there is always something to suit most people.

Super markets are great and sell almost all the food you like to eat, plus others you might like to try

There are many very nice holiday destination within easy reach of HK, and i have used the opportunity of living here to visit many.

The air quality is the only negative I can think of, but i have asthma, and it hasn't made it any worse.

I am leaving Hk in September, only because our 2 yr house rental comes up for renewal, and we want to move permanently to Spain nearer our family. I will have very fond memories of our time out here, and glad that we (even as oldies) took the step of coming here.

If you are making a boatload of money, anywhere is pretty damn good.


but lemme say:


Good stuff of HK:


1. the food.


2. the sex (come single if you can...)


3. public transport and general convenience-- you dont need a car at all unless you live in the back-of-beyond or hvae a large brood of kids, or just like fouling the air and earth. convenience in lot sof others ways-- shops, food, stuff youneed is generally very easy to get to and get at most hours of the day. it takes no time to get places


4. chineseness or chinese culture stuff, if you like it or are open to it. Alternatively this can suck


5. location location location. SE Asia, China, even the rest of Asia. "effing awesome if you ask me, all of it. great opportunities to travel.


BAD stuff:


1. air pollution-- good by some standards but bad compared to US-West


2. if you dont know CHinese you are autmotically alienated from the great majority of info/happenings.conversations to be had in HK. EVen though the elite do know english and the expats of course, and you dont need it to shop and generally live in a practical sense


3. HK is also a cultural wasteland or blackhole in some ways: the political discourse sucks and is fairly retarded; it aint got not culture in a high culture sense or deeper Asian/Chinese etc sense, aside from its movie industry-- put another way it just isnt that interesting after awhile.


4. your job can suck in a big way for a ton of reasons, and that can ruin your life.


5. space: tiny flats, crowds, noise.

Hi Welshy, we came to Hong Kong 11 years ago. It took me a good 6-12 months to settle in, and I didn't actually think that I'd get used life here, but 11 years on I wouldn't change a thing My husband is also a QS and is now running his own company here. The downside is that he works damned hard, and often very long hours, which I believe is one of the cons for many people living & working in HK (although he always worked long hours in the UK, so no change there for us really!).


Most of what's been said above, I agree with. My personal 5 pros/cons would be ...


Cons:


1. Cost of housing is astronomical! Unless you don't mind living in a shoe box, but even shoe boxes here command rents far higher than we pay for our mortgage on our nice house in the UK (which we now rent out)!! Obviously, there are areas which aren't so expensive, and you can get a nice house with garden and sea views for the cost of some shoe boxes on HK island, if you don't mind the commute to work from places such as Sai Kung/Clearwater Bay.


2. Traffic congestion during peak rush hours is an absolute nightmare - alternatively, depending on where you are going, you can use the MTR which is very efficient.


3. From a woman's perspective - unless you're stick thin, it's a nightmare finding nice clothes to fit. Here, a 'Large' would be equivalent to a UK size 12!! And most clothes come in 'Small' sizes! Even if you are stick thin, some of the clothing styles leave much to be desired. So wifey would need to do lots of shopping in the UK whenever she goes back for hols!;-) Alternatively, there's always M&S!


4. You don't get to see your family so often - but my hubby would class that as a 'Pro'!lol


5. I find it frustrating that you can't always get everything you want from one place and end up travelling to various shops over town to find what you need - but you tend to get used to this!


Pros:


1. We have a far better lifestyle here than we would have back in the UK - I guess earning more money helps with this! But simply living in another country and experiencing what a different culture has to offer, rather than trying to replicate what you have at home, definitely goes some way to enriching your life.


2. Hong Kong is extremely safe. I would never have allowed my kids the kind of freedom they've had here, back in the UK. They are both now older and at university in the UK, but during their teenage years I never really worried about them going out at night and getting home safely. Also, women here are very safe, even if out alone late at night, or coming home in a cab after a late night out - I'd never dream of getting in a cab on my own at night in the UK!


3. Life here is never boring! At least not as far as we are concerned. There is so much to see and do here, I can't understand why anyone would find it boring ... unless they are boring people themselves ....


4. Public transport is excellent, cheap and reliable. You can get anywhere at anytime of day or night - Not like in the UK where you need to book a taxi days in advance if you're going for a night out! (Unless, perhaps, if you live in the centre of London).


5. Athough you don't have kids, if you ever do, education here is excellent. I feel my kids have had a far better education, and far more experiences here in Hong Kong than they ever would have had back in the UK.


I could keep going, but many things have been covered in previous posts already.


And finally, overall ... a definite YES to Hong Kong from me!!


If you have the opportunity to try it out, give it a go ... if you don't like it, you can always go back to the UK. But don't be left a few years down the road thinkng, 'What if ...?'

5 cons - air-pollution x 5. I'm back in Europe now for a holiday. What a difference fresh air makes to your general health and state of well-being. Cough gone.


Breathing is actually quite important for the human being. You can take all your safety and your money and all your travel opportunities and your public transport facilities and stick them where the sun don't shine if you can't breathe.


And you will need those medical facilities as the effects of breathing polluted particulates kick in. I wonder whether you smoke. You certainly will be enjoying the effects of 20 per day (say the experts) once you move to HK.


For those who have said HK is safe, it's not. Because of the health issues posed by this pollution. Try even seeing across the Harbour on certain days. Everyone is coughing and it doesn't matter whether you live in DB or Sai Kung or Tung Chung. The whole place is covered by a rancid layer of yellow smog.


Good luck!