Posted by
hkjazz
12 yrs ago
I've been living in the same apartment for 4 years and have always had problems with the horrible neighbours. They are so noisy wear shoes inside and bang furniture around at all hours.
Recently my worst nightmare came true and they've now got a piano which their kid bangs away at practicing horrible music (I use the word music very loosely!) at all hours. It's so loud they might as well be playing inside our apartment and they always play it for 2 hours and at night. It wakes my kids up and drives me insane. It's like a form of torture.
I've called management and they can't do anything as these people start playing again 5 minutes after management go away. I've called the police and the same. I once tried to talk to them and they started yelling abuse through the door and called the police to say I was harassing them. The police are useless they say they can't do anything as it's not after 11pm. But I was recently made aware of section 400 in the noise ordinance that says if I can hear musical instruments at ANY TIME of day or night from inside my apartment it's illegal.
Can anyone offer me advice? These people upstairs are the rudest most arrogant people I've ever encountered. They're brave enough to defy the police and management after they've left, but I ring their doorbell and they not only refuse to open the door to look at me but call the police and say I'm threatening them. Just to clarify, all I did was ring the bell, I didn't even speak before I heard them call the police.
Yes, I do want to move and I am looking but I will encounter significant costs and these people will get away with there horrible behaviour. So I really would like to do something before I leave, if nothing else to make my last few months bearable.
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This indeed is quite annoying. I think you've done what you can, and making plans to move is quite logical.
Usually calling in management people and the police will frighten, if not shame them. But alas you've found people who don't care.
Maybe you could pick up learning to play the sax or trumpet? They're quite calming instruments to some.
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dear hkjazz,
I have had similar case with you, they called police and police goes to their house before coming to my ine. I called police and the police went to their aprtment first before coming to mine, it happened often during the week end. Police said they can't do anything. The lates was a month ago. I made noise, bang furnitures so they can be distructed like they do to us. Than this lady comes up my aprtment shouting, i called police, as usual police went to her place first before coming to mine. Then I told police, now i have case to make with all concerned,"racism".She can complain me for this one time noise i made but i can't complain on the so many noise she does to the neigbourhood? And please Sir, am curious when I called police you should come to my place first not her. Seems i have no remedy for this but go to court if this happen again and policeman incharge said it will be time consuming if i do i said no matter how time consuming i will my laywer is ready any time. Then police told them am going to court as i have recorded all the incident in the past and the present for my evidence and now they stopped.
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Yes, thanks elleine8838, I was also thinking that I should get my lawyer (technically I don't actually have one yet, but sure I can find one) to draft a letter to them saying that this matter will be taken to court if they wake my children one more time. I really don't want to go to court but they won't know that.
I too think this is almost a case of racism as when the police came they asked me stupid questions like whether I was the owner or tenant. How is this relevant to them waking up my children every night? They also spent hours talking to me and telling me not to ring the neighbours doorbell but very little time upstairs talking to the troublemakers. Then to add insult to injury, today management called me to tell me that the neighbour upstairs has filed a complaint that I made his doorbell dirty!!! Are they kidding me!!!!!
I gave management a good piece of my mind when they rang me about that today. I found their call insulting to say the least.
I have also started a log of every time I hear excess noise from their apartment. It's gonna be pretty thick very soon.
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yes hkjazz, I did told that to the police and the police was shocked and suddunly went down to my neighbours place and told them that my pc cam is on and all conversations with police and her was recorded and very transparent it was an issue of racism they even shouted to my former landord and my landord back me up.
pls try to scare them with lawyers
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Hk Jazz,
That is really terrible.. your neighbors are clearly imbeciles and the management company seem no better. As others have written , you could threaten with legal action, or some negative publicity for the management company.
Recently I received a PM on this forum from a TVB reporter doing a story on the poor quality of renovation companies in HK.. perhaps they may be interested in doing a report on poor management companies. If you like, PM me andi can give you the details of the reporter.
That said, your best option is to pack up and leave.. I can't really see your problem being resolved any other way.
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Hk Jazz,
That is really terrible.. your neighbors are clearly imbeciles and the management company seem no better. As others have written , you could threaten with legal action, or some negative publicity for the management company.
Recently I received a PM on this forum from a TVB reporter doing a story on the poor quality of renovation companies in HK.. perhaps they may be interested in doing a report on poor management companies. If you like, PM me andi can give you the details of the reporter.
That said, your best option is to pack up and leave.. I can't really see your problem being resolved any other way.
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vak
12 yrs ago
Wonder if you can rent the appt above them and give it back. I would love to rip the floors out in the appt above them jsut to give them a taste of what its like.
I managed a rennovation project for a friend in a modern building near the airport. We had to apply for permits etc allowing us to have workers do their work bet 9 am and 5 pm. Day 1 and the management came over to make a polite request asking if we could defer the noise till afternoon as the lady a few
floors below was an airline flight attendant and had returned from a long flight. While we were within our rights to make noise it was just a polite request. We obliged and the benefits were worth it. The guards in the building opened doors for the stafff , helped putting things in and out of lifts from that day on. Just do not know why some people have to be confrontational just because they OWN the appt. I gather the owner upstars is local and you are not.
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selda
12 yrs ago
Welcome to HK, where noise tolerance must be the highest in the world. I doubt that moving will solve the problem, i encountered the same type of neighbours everywhere i lived. Walls are wafer-thin and a lot of families behave as if they were the only people living in the block.
I had upstairs neighbours moving furniture around at 2 am (possibly to open a Murphy bed), next door neighbours shouting at their daughter to start her piano practice at 8 am every Saturday and Sunday, neighbours playing mahjong all night or watching TV at a deafening volume.
Silence is probably the scarcest commodity in HK, something you may enjoy only in some parts of the New Territories, in an isolated village house surrounded by trees.
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Very true, perhaps we should all move to Sea Ranch lol...
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vak
12 yrs ago
Been living in a village house where its absolute bliss except a 6 month stint where the upstairs neighbour dragged furniture between 2 and 5 am every night. Woke up our 4 year old every night as his room was right below. When the neighbours finally left, the husband told us that his wife had gone loopy and used to find ghosts under the bed with a torch. Go figure. We were not sure wethere to celebrate their departure or feel sorry for the family. I agree its indeed a privelige in HK to have a free standing house and wake up to the sounds of birds , specially in the winters. Its a lifestyle choice as many people would never trade in mid levels for anything else.
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Punter makes a splendid suggestion,
"Maybe you could pick up learning to play the sax or trumpet? They're quite calming instruments to some."
however I find the bagpipes my be a little more soothing.
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Tell me this is not Sorrento...Had a similiar problem there, so broke my lease and moved on....
I would say it all depends in what fight you want to put up, other like others have said, leave.
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Thanks for suggestions and advice. I am not certain which road I want to take. Thinking about moving out but yes, also nervous that I will encounter the same kind of people. There seems to be more and more thoughtless people out there these days and I don't know whether it's a Hong Kong thing or a general loss of manners in people. The thought of just packing up and moving to a small country town by the beach in Australia and living the quiet life is extremely tempting.
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we had a similar problem and our security guard who is filipino got to know one of the helpers and passed on our concerns and things got much much much better.
perhap befriending the helper/nanny upstairs and have a chat with her? perhaps she is more reasonable and sympathetic?
I was fully prepared to pay the helper upstairs as a token of appreciation but in the end she never asked for anything in return.
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Precisely because she didn't ask for anything is the reason why you should drop her a little pressie. If she asked for a red packet or a gift then I wouldn't give her anything.
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Easy peasy. Buy a cheap subwoofer from Ap Liu St market. Duct tape it to the ceiling, attached to a $200 power amp, available at the same lovely place. Plug in your mp3 player and give them some nice, soothing Bob Marley live tracks. Readily available to download online, and some run a solid, thumpy two hours. That or park a common-or-garden, wet market fishy in a Glad sealable bag for a week, then transfer the blackish liquid from the bottom of the bag into a squirt gun and perfume their doorstep next time you're wandering past.
It's unfortunately a Hong Kong truism that once you cause offense, you'll be paid back, in spades, one way or another. There's no winning one of these, because the locals will dig in waaaaay deeper than you'll be prepared to. Lagrue is on the money too - make them think they won, and the problem will disappear.
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This is what someone I know did: he met the neighbor and offered to replace their piano with a more expensive Yamaha that was a plug in...you know, those Clavinova things. They feel like a piano but they can be used with a volume setting and with headphones too.
I highly doubt they would turn down a free/fancy electronic piano.
BUT - sounds to me like they don't like you, you don't like them, they make a lot of other noise besides the piano...so your best bet would be to move, me thinks.
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Break the door down witha 40 pound sledge hammer, grab the guy and hang him over the balcony railing by his ankles and ask him if he gets the message. I'm normally polite but when I see my courtesy is not being returned I get mean. One time in 2008 when I lived in a different tower I had neighbors that would take their friends out to the lobby at 1:00 am with their noisy, very loud goodbyes. I lonced asked politely but no response. When I got back into my apartment they were loud again so I stormed out of my apartment with an angry attitude and got right in the guys face with his wife and friends around. He got the message quick and I never had a problem again. They are not used to foreigners being too confrontational but if you have the I don't give a f**k attitude they will sense it and usually back down.
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I don't know if you can get your self into trouble by doing this but, consider writing a letter as a concerned resident and that you would like start a petition about noise control. Use the neighbors address as the example you wish to eradicate and then drop the letter is every letter box in you building. Who knows, there may be more neighbors annoyed with the person and they may join you in you fight. Be careful as it may insight more noise as they will have be made to look silly.
The other suggestions of subwoofers and fish juice are fantastic ideas but may come with issues with the police. I too believe that scaring the livingsh*t of this type of dipsh*t normally works but the risk is them running off to the police and having a cry.
If you do choose the line of sub’s and fish juice, super glue in the door lock is a cracker.
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this is a common thing in HK move to a village house things are relatively better there !!
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"But I was recently made aware of section 400 in the noise ordinance that says if I can hear musical instruments at ANY TIME of day or night from inside my apartment it's illegal."
hkjazz - did you find this online? I'm very interested to find it as my neighbours play the piano really late at night. I can access a govt. website that talks about the noise ordinance, but not the ordinance details themselves. Have you seen them / where can I find them - do you know?
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Your story sadly is identical to mine. I have one moronic downstairs neighbour who's kids abuse a piano every goddam day. Recently my other neighbour also decided to get a piano (nope, not kidding) and is now banging out some dreadful version of fur elise.
What to do ? Well I went to my lawyer (yup I have one) as I own this place and he filled me in on the police route - there is legistlation about neighbours who make too much noise. So ... I did both the angry gweilo neighbour thing and the reconcilatory nice guy thing and now have managed to persuade both of them to pull the plug at 9pm.
Is this ideal ? Clearly not as I am sitting here on my bank holiday morning listening to some dreadful rendition of 19th C music yet again but at least I get some peace at night after the kids go to sleep.
What else to do ? Mmm... tricky one. I would prefer to move and buy a house as someone above has suggested but logistically that seems such a pain in ass.
The real question is why so many local chinese people force their offspring to play the damned instrument. I mean - is HK the epicentre of classical music revival or much like many local customs I fail to understand would it help if the government put of another of their really cheesy cartoon TV ads and reminded people that in a city where most live on top or underneath each other not many people really want to listen tosh*t music from someone elses place in their own front room.
(Based in HK a long time)
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OK. here's the legal approach. There are two sections of the Noise Control Ordinance which are applicable to domestic premises - both are enforced by the police. Sometimes rookie police may tell you that they can only take action after 11PM - that is wrong. Anyone playing a musical instrument at ANY time to the annoyance of neighbours commits an offence. For a prosecution to succeed the affected person (not the police) must give evidence in court. To get the police to initiate a summons you must convince them that you are a reasonable person and that the noise prevents you from enjoying peace and quiet. They should be invited o stand in a position inside the flat where they can hear the noise. They may insist on giving a warning the first time. No problem - just call them back next time it happens. You can also request that they visit you first.
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I have a similar problem and thank you PFL2 for your very helpful post.
Completely understand the point re calling the police. Do you think it is worth for example keeping a record of when (dates and times) the piano is played and / or recording it ? I'm wondering whether this evidence is more likely to result in conviction.
Thanks again for your kind thoughts.
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Well, after a long family chat we have decided to move anyway. Our lease is finished in a few months and I will most likely end up in jail if I stay here as I am likely to head upstairs with a baseball bat one night as I am beyond fed up. That being said though we did like the idea of attaching a speaker to the ceiling and have been playing some awful doof doof music every time the kid upstairs starts to play. He seems to be cutting his sessions short so they might be getting the message. Though we did have to endure a 5 hour stint on Saturday afternoon. How one child can persist playing crap music and scales for 5 hours is beyond me!! I kid you not - started at 2pm and finished around 7pm with the odd 10 minute break here and there.
So anyway, have signed a new lease on a place closer to the kids school. I just hope and pray we have better neighbours this time. Although we are moving into a low rise complex so it won't be quite as anonymous and I really really hope there is a more neighbourly attitude.
But it's a sad reflection on society when the bad guys win in the end.
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EnjoyingLife - to answer your question - you couldn't really use the recordings in court as the defendant would say the record had been made up or tampered with. It might help convince the police to take things more seriously though. A more expensive way to solve the problem would be to get an injunction (an order from a judge for a person to stop doing something). This needs a private solicitor unless you know how to do it yourself. Also a judge might not grant it, especially if his own brats are learning the piano at home (highly likely :)) Problem in Hong Kong is that learning the piano seems to be de rigueur and whilst parents will pay a fortune for tuition, they are too mean to pay for a practice booth and are quite happy to torture neighbours because they are not after all, family.
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p.s. - it's going to get worse with the airconditioning off!
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If yopu are moving anyway and you don't want the 'bad' guys to win, then I would do some of the suggestions above. Like actually get the police in, web cam. listing of noise compliants, asking other neighbours if they have similar concerns (hey neighbour B wondering if you can hear noisy neighbour A in your apartment?) and getting a list together, threaten that you'll bring lawyers in.
You're moving so you no longer have to worry about being neighbourly and if it doesn't work you're moving anyway but in the mean time you've made an effort to not let the bad guy win.
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My friend did this. Get 2 to 4 subwoofers. Get some of those big azz speakers they have at festivals. Go on vacation for a week or so. Get someone to stay in your apartment. (dogwalker maybe?) He is to play the music 24/7 (at least at night) with the speakers against the wall facing your neighbor. They will not sleep.
Be a biggera**hole than they are.
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