Is my wife planning to leave me when she gets a permanent residence permit?



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POSTED BY Badnews (6 yrs ago)
My wife has been in Norway for a little over a year. She doesn’t speak English so we use the Google translator (for what it’s worth.) She received a telephone from Martha, a Chinese teacher and nurse who has been in Norway since 1972. We visit Martha 2-3 times a month. My wife and I have had some problems in our relationship, partly due to the language barrier. We often use Martha as an interpreter and Martha has given us advice on some marital problems! In fact Martha persuaded my wife to cancel an appointment I had made with the Family counseling office with an interpreter and use her instead! Martha said that the Family counseling office could not be trusted to keep matters confidential!

I don’t speak much Chinese but I heard the name of a nearby amusement park several times. The phone was given to me. Martha says she has some tickets to the amusement park. The plan is that my wife and some other Chinese persons shall accompany her to the amusement park on Sunday 19:08.12. She did not plan that I should come along. No point that I accompany if I do not do anything there (go on rides). Moreover, they will go around and speak Chinese. Martha asks if this is ok. I said its ok I don’t mind. (Well, what else could i say?) I give the phone back to my wife. The conversation ends in a good tone with an agreement to go to the amusement park next Sunday.

I wrote the following in the Google translator: I do not think Martha likes that I always accompany you. One time Martha suggested to me that you should take the bus and train to her home instead of me driving you there and accompanying you. She said taking the bus would help you learn Norwegian!


My wife became immediately enraged and began to write down on a paper what was on the Google translator. I asked her what she was doing. She refused to answer. I wrote that she must have totally misunderstood. She goes over to the telephone with the transcript and shall call Martha. I wrote that she should reconsider. She puts down the phone and crosses out the transcript. I wrote the following:

"I have absolutely nothing against you participating! I have no plans for Sunday.

I think it would be good for you to go. I think it is ok for you to be together with other people without me present.

If you decide not to go I do not want to hear in the future that I refused you! I do not want to hear in the future that it was my fault you did not go. I am not a bad person."

My wife then said she will not go because of the sun. (She does not like too much sun) I say she can take an umbrella and that I think she should go.


The next morning we went to her doctor to remove the blood pressure meter she has had for 24 hours. I asked her to pay the 200 kroner doctor bill.

The reason I asked her to pay is this. She asked me to drive to her doctor to obtain certification in English that she has diabetes Type 2. She believes this will help her pension issue with employers – Peoples Bank of China. The certificate cost me 250 and 2 trips to her doctor. I do not believe this document will have any impact whatsoever on her pension issue. Consequently it is a waste of (MY) time and money. Also, bickering about her desire to buy a mobile telephone for 6000 +, desire to spend money (15000) to bring her son to Norway for less than 2 weeks. She has worked in a kindergarten and received money. I pay for nearly everything. She has over 40.000 kroner in her account and can afford 200 for her own doctor!

When we got home from the doctor she was furious and went to the computer and wrote an email to Martha. Her computer is right next to mine. She seemed very angry while she wrote. After she sent the mail I asked her several questions, if she was writing about the amusement park and if she was writing anything about me. She refused to answer. Eventually she said she wrote to Martha to inform that she was not going to the amusement park because of the sun. She denied that she had written anything about me. She refused to translate the mail or send me a copy.

I spoke with Martha a few days later and she said she would forward my wife's mail if I wanted!

I ignored her offer but I found it surprising and a bit unethical that she would forward without my wife’s knowledge or permission. Martha is a teacher and a Nurse and is acting, albeit unofficially, as an interpreter and to some extent as a marriage counselor!

Instead of having the mail forwarded behind my wife’s back I wrote a letter to my wife regarding this mail and other things that I wanted Martha to translate for my wife. Martha came to our home and we talked about my letter. Martha said, in front of my wife, that she would forward my wife’s mail tomorrow! My wife said nothing in protest. I thought – soooo, Martha is actually going to forward the mail that my wife refuses to show me!? Why doesn't my wife just show it to me? Next day I received a mail from Martha but with the text of my wife’s mail pasted in the mail. I replied “Can you forward the actual mail including headers to me. This mail appears much shorter than the one I saw her write.”

Martha replied “I deleted the mail she wrote. All I have is a copy from the reply I sent her.”


Subject: Re: 你好!


陈教师:您好!谢谢你的好意!星期天的活动我还是不参加了。今天早上,我去医院继续 测量我的血糖,现在我已经想好了,没什么大不了的事,从今后,我就象头一年这样过,自己最 要紧做的事情就是学习语言。找到一份工作.

祝 好!代我向陈医生问好!


According to the Google translator: Chen teachers: Hello! Thank you for your kindness! Sunday I still do not participate in the activities. This morning, I went to the hospital to continue to measure my blood sugar, I've thought, no big deal from the future, and I like the head a year this way too, the most important thing to do is to learn the language. To find a job.

Best wishes! On behalf of Dr. Xiang Chen I say hello!


Nothing written about me at all! Problem is the above text appears to have been edited. Most of the text is the Chinese font SimSun. The period at the end of this text “找到一份工作. ” is Times New Roman! I don't know Chinese but I believe the period should be “ 。” and not “ . ”?


I wrote the following to Martha

“Martha

The mail you sent 15.09.12 was edited. All that was written about me was removed. You have involved my wife in a lie. Your unethical behavior has been harmful to our marriage and I still have not decided what to do about it. You can take that as a warning. It is my wish and hope that we never have anything to do with you ever again.”

Martha wrote a new reply stating again that she had deleted my wife’s original mail but the reply was actually a forwarding of my wife’s original mail!! I think Martha made a mistake!


陈教师:您好!谢谢你的好意!星期天的活动我还是不参加了。他表面回答你,心里是很不高兴地。他与你通完电话,就对我生气了,他说,为什么没有他的票? 说你不喜欢他。等等。。。。今天早上,我去医院继续测量我的血糖,几百块钱的费用他叫我付了。这是很明显的不高兴。现在我已经想好了,没什么大不 了的事,从今后,我就象头一年这样过,自己最要紧做的事情就是学习语言。找到一份工作。有了工作一切自己做主。

祝 好!代我向陈医生问好!

According to the Google translator: Chen teachers: Hello! Thank you for your kindness! Sunday I still do not participate in the activities. Surface, he answered you, and my heart is very unhappy. You pass the phone on me angry, he said, why did not he votes? That you do not like him. And so on. . . .This morning, I went to the hospital to continue to measure my blood sugar, the cost of a few hundred dollars, he told me to pay. This is obviously upset. Things I've thought, no big deal, from the future, and I like the head a year so too, the most important thing to do is to learn the language. To find a job. With work everything themselves.


Best wishes! On behalf of Dr. Xiang Chen I say hello!

Martha has removed all the text referring to me but I don’t understand why the following at the end of the paragraph was censored.

有了工作一切自己做主。 With work everything themselves.

,

The first part of the mail could be just a normal misunderstanding. However I do not believe my wife actually believes I had objections to her going to an amusement park with friends. It could also be an attempt to create false evidence of an abusive relationship.

The translation is bad but the last part concerns me. It seems like my wife is saying she will divorce me as soon as she learns the language and gets a permanent residence permit.

Can someone that knows Chinese tell me if my interpretation is correct?

COMMENTS

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
I know my wife has diabetes and I am a have a formal education related to health care. I am nice and generous to my wife. I only provided this as background information to help in evaluating the Chinese text. I do try to learn some Chinese but it will be quite a while before I am competent to evaluate the text. I need to know if the text at the end of the mail can be interpreted such that my wife plans to leave me when she learns the language, gets a job and a permanent residence permit.

CaptDave (6 yrs ago)
Let's get real -

+ You married a woman you cannot communicate with

+ You have one view of money, and she has another

+ She appears to be moody, selfish

+ You wife would rather hang out with other people than you

+ You wife is being influenced by someone who is supposed to be neutral ( the translator).


I won't say it's hopeless, but that is a very challenging situation to make work.


It seems very likely she only married you for your passport... and whatever money she can siphon out of you after the divorce. My advice is to seek legal advice.

Do you have feelings for her ?


Best of Luck


Badnews (6 yrs ago)
I know about the communication problems, she is moody etc. but can you please tell me what the last part of her mail says. I am wondering why Martha has removed the following at the end of the last paragraph. 有了工作一切自己做主。

malka (6 yrs ago)
Last 2 sentences - Have found a job. With job, all (can) be decided on my own.


Not a native mando but I read this to mean it gives a measure of independence to decide on her own - does not mean leaving you but in the context of earlier sentences, it gives a way out (esp with the emphasis on learning language).

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
Thank you very much. I suppose the fact that Martha removed the very last sentence would maybe indicate leaving or divorce. For some reason Martha did not want me to read that last sentence.

carrie1314 (6 yrs ago)
I don't understand how you two could get married when you both can't even communicate with each other!! That means she doesn't know you at all, so I doubt that the marriage is built on love?


From your post (and the simplified chinese characters) it seems that your wife is from China and it could be that she's marrying you for your $$ or passport. This is often the case with China gals and it happens in Hong Kong often. Once they get married, get their passport and a job, they divorce. Of course, it's not for ALL China girls. Many are very kind and loving.


I advise, that you be a loving husband. Action speaks louder than words. Build that marriage with love.

omohaside (6 yrs ago)
Or cut and run, under cover of darkness. You're getting fleeced, mate.

Nkan (6 yrs ago)
This is pure fake love fake marriage.How did you know this woman love you?

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
That is very well possible however she may have been angry when she wrote the email. Things are not black and white. If I have understood correctly the Chinese text does not explicitly state that my wife has plans to leave me. Also I think Martha is a very bad influence on my wife. Martha has contrived with my wife and involved her in a lie by sending me the false edited email.

Camillahoff (6 yrs ago)
I think I happen to know this Martha person. It's a small country Norway! She is rude and arrogant. It is quite serious if she is acting as a marriage counselor and conniving with your wife to cover up lies by sending you a false mail. Surly you can report her and you may even have grounds for a legal action.

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
I was very disappointed to learn that Martha could behave is such an unethical and unchristian way. She often has two bibles on her dining room table. Her wall is decorated with very large embroidery of the last supper by Leonardo Da Vinci and a medium sized one in the dining room. For some reason there are appear to be only 11 disciples! The original had of course 12.

One sort of doesn’t expect people that have two bibles on their dining room table and a house full of Christian symbols to lie, cheat and behave so unethically. Perhaps Judas left the embroidery and sent me the falsified email!


CaptDave (6 yrs ago)
Hah ! This is a classic behaviour of liars and cheats : put on a veneer of respectability - with acts like publicized donations to charity, making a show of religion, etc.

People who are sincere do such things quietly.

malka (6 yrs ago)
Martha's Chinese Dairy for Norwegians:


While she milks him dry, he should turn his cheek and offer her the milk of human kindness.

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
I have at least tried to be kind and nice to Martha. But when she involves my wife in lies and deception I will not turn the other cheek. I was actually quite shocked to discover that Martha had falsified my wife’s email. So much for “Thou shalt not bear false witness..” and the very well known Jesus saying: “Do to others as you would have them do to you.” Luke 6:31.

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
Thank you very much for your translation! My wife was very angry but I think she misunderstood. I really did not object to her going to the park. I think all married people have arguments sometimes but Martha has made it much worse by involving my wife in lies by sending me the false mail. Martha also removed the text at the end有了工作一切自己做主。 Could this be interpreted like she has intentions of leaving me?

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
Thank you for helping me with such an accurate translation and analysis! I hope I can somehow save the relationship.

Amparo Kia (6 yrs ago)
Ok, let me translate it for you


现在我已经想好了,没什么大不 了的事,从今后,我就象头一年这样过,自己最要紧做的事情就是学习语言。找到一份工作。有了工作一切自己做主。


Now i have decided, no big deal, from now on, I will live as my first year here. the most important thing for me now is to learn the language, get a job and I can decide on my own.

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
Thank you Amparo Kia! If she is really saying “I will live as my first year here.” That is a possible indication that she plans to get a divorce!

Does strawblade interpret the mail in the same way?


Amparo Kia (6 yrs ago)
as the Chinese saying goes, if you got to live to a hundred year-old, you sure will still hear some good stories... I don't know how your courtship and dating go and you two can eventually end up being married, amazing!!


I am totally with CapDave, and honestly, even though you eventually learn to speak Mandarin, which I doubt you can do it in a short time.. Chinese is a complicated language and for you to be able at a level where you two can have a heart-to-heart conversation, I doubt she will still be interested to have that conversation.

To me it is obviously a case of getting a husband for a way out of China. How can one love a person when you can't even relate or communicate to him.. beats me!!

Amparo Kia (6 yrs ago)
I did not read other replies, I just translate it word by word, sentence by sentence, without putting in my opinions. In that way, you knew exactly what she means cause you are the one who totally understand your own situation.

Nkan (6 yrs ago)
Is she already having your nationality?

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
She is still Chinese. She can get a permanent residence permit after she has been here 3 years.

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
My wife is taking Norwegian classes so we will eventually be able to communicate better.

I think my wife was very angry when she wrote the mail to Martha but I certainly am concerned. I am quite sure that she and Martha were in cahoots about sending me the fake mail. I found it very strange that Martha would tell me in front of my wife that she would go home and send me the mail my wife refused to let me read!

Martha got my wife to cancel an appointment I had made with the certified family counseling office. Martha said the family counseling office could not be trusted and would gossip! She suggested we use HER instead! Martha’s involving my wife in lying and deception has caused much more damage than someone we don’t care about gossiping.


songyu (6 yrs ago)
Get your wife to a lawyer's office and get her understand the punishment of a fraud marriage. It's better to lose money now for a lawyer's fee if you still want to keep your wife. Otherwise, pack your little wifey and bring her back to China as soon as you can. Divorce her there in China. Then get a new Chinese wife before you return to your country. Start a new life again, who knows this time around you're lucky. Don't worry about your wife. If she's sad, tell her to go cry to her Martha. In China, majority of women will jump for any opportunity to get married with any non-PRC guy (either white, black, yellow, red, blue, ugly, fat, skinny, bald, blind, wrinkled, married, criminals etc it doesn't matter when you're not Chinese). For them, marriage is just another business deal. Those women don't have class, don't have ethics, don't have integrity or good principles in life about marriage, family, children. Those have no meanings for them. Hence your wife cancelled the appointment for a family counselling because 'family' and 'marriage' has no meaning for her.


As strawblade stated (see earlier posts): "... some Chinese ladies will leave an unhappy relationship only when they have found a financially stable alternative ..."


and also:

"For Chinese women, money is very important to them."


What a joke!!! Money is also very important for us white guys as well as other guys whatever color and size they are. We want after sales service guaranteed, including good behavior, respect, capacity to cooperate with the husband more than with a friend. We hate to be used as a meal ticket or a passport to get out of PRC, or that they can deliver babies in Hongkong and other countries for the sake of securing foreign passport for themselves and their children. Their outside behavior like capitalists while inside they still strongly hold onto commy mentality, very sneaky and intriguing.

Camillahoff (6 yrs ago)
I totally agree with songyu! Could not have said it better.

As for this Martha my Chinese friend has told me quite a lot about that wretched woman. Martha is a nurse and also a teacher for Chinese immigrants. She told me about the bibles on the dining room table and how pushed Christian books and literature on her students that are not interested. Tries to convert them and is rather pushy. She if from Taiwan. It’s Interesting that she is willing to assist an immigrant in getting a residence permit under false pretenses!

So much for her Christian ethics!


Amparo Kia (6 yrs ago)
Songyu, you are so hilarious... I can't help but have to laugh out loud. I have to admit, you got it almost all right.

Camillahoff (6 yrs ago)
I found out a bit more about this Martha person. She is an extreme Christian. She and her husband, a doctor, were members of a local church congregation but there occurred some trouble a few years back. The Norwegian government hires her as a teacher for the obligatory 2 week course immigrants must take to learn about Norwegian society. She tries to convert students to Christianity and gives them Chinese literature about Christianity.

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
Yes I thing she pushes Christian books and literature on her students. I was at a dinner at her home and she was doing that. One of the students told me told me he did not like it but took the book just to be polite. I am an atheist and that may be one of the reasons it does not give her a bad conscious conspire with my wife to lie to me.

rititt (6 yrs ago)
badnews, i know it's tough for you, not knowing if she will stay or not. I beleive the only way for you is this: if you really want to keep her, find ways to attract her back to you. both of you are now in a situation is mistrust and that is not good for the relationship, if really there is any relationship at all. and so if you really don't care about her, ie, no love, just give up, it's so clear that she has been using you to better her life and she would leave if she has better opportunity.


Amparo Kia (6 yrs ago)
Martha is only a catalyst that accelerate the problem, the real cause lies on the foundation of your marriage and the purpose of this union, I agreed with rititt. Work it out if you think it is worth the effort and there is still hope, otherwise cut your lose and move on. You just have to learn to be wiser next time.

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
Catalyst is a well-chosen word! When my wife is around Martha she is quite a different person. Martha has quite an influence on my wife both good and bad. For example in china they leave food on the table for many days. Here in Norway we put leftovers in the refrigerator. She continued this practice in Norway even though I told her it was unwise because we could get sick. On occasion would not eat things that were left on the kitchen table for too many days. I told Martha about it and there was an immediate change! The bad influence is that she involves my wife in lying and deceitful treacherous behavior.

Badnews (6 yrs ago)
There is another thing that happened that I was / am really horrified and confused about. I wonder if this is the result of some strange cultural difference I don't know about. My wife is from Guilin. She goes to Norwegian class in a village 12 km south of our home here in Norway. I drive her every day. There is another village 3.5 km to the east that has a school for foreigners but it is in another district. Sometimes these two schools have activities together. There are several Uyghur refugees. One is a doctor and is quite friendly. He has a wife and child back in China. Last spring he bought a used motorbike and came and visited my wife and I. The bike had, among other things, no lights and he did not have a license. He was unaware of Norwegian laws. We put the bike in my van and drove to his home to avoid him getting a heavy fine. He lives alone in an apartment 1.3 km north east of the village behind the hospital, 3.5 km to the east of my home. The other Uyghur refugees are not so friendly and one of the students told me that she was talking to him, the doctor, and she later heard the other Uyghurs criticizing him for talking to a woman. I believe they are Sunni Muslims.

Sunday, 02 September 2012 at approximately 10:30 my wife said she wanted to ride the bicycle to the village that is 3.5 km to the east of us and back to exercise. She has occasionally bicycled in the neighborhood. I worry a little because the bike is old and the chain sometimes comes off. Also she is not at all familiar with traffic conventions in Norway. She made a point of showing me a bottle of water she would take and a small purse she would use to carry the water bottle. I thought it was a little strange because there is a holder for a water bottle on the bike. Also it was not all that hot and 7 km on flat terrain is not all that much.


At approximately 12:00 I began to be uneasy. The village is small and like a ghost town on Sunday. All the shops are closed. Maybe the bike is punctured or damaged perhaps there has been an accident! Perhaps she is lost! She has been known to faint with strenuous exercise. I drove to the village with my motorbike but she was nowhere to be seen. I drove to the hospital. At the hospital I met her leaving the residence of the Uyghur refugee. She seemed quite embarrassed and surprised. She opened the small purse and took out the certificate from her doctor confirming that she has diabetes indicating that the purpose of her visit with the refugee was to get his help to translate the certificate. This is totally ridiculous. The certificate has only one (1) sentence in English "I confirm that this patient has the diagnosis Diabetes II" has been translated with Google translator and thoroughly explained to her by me, and two other English speaking Chinese persons. She also understands some basic English. This is obviously a pretext for contacting the refugee. If I saw her taking the certificate with her I would probably have asked her why she would take a certificate with her on a bicycle ride to exercise. This problem was solved by hiding the certificate in the purse and showing me the water bottle.

It is quite clear that my wife tried to keep her contact with this man hidden from me by the planned deception and lies. I did not want to talk too much about it or ask questions because that can just lead to the more lies. I asked her to call Martha but she was not available.

The next day, Monday, 03 September 2012, I had a meeting in Oslo at 10:00 AM. I doubted that I was back in time to drive my wife to school in the village 12 km to the south. She figured it would take her 40-45 minutes to bicycle to school that started at 12:15. She must first bicycle 3.5 km to the village to the east and then 12 km to the village to the south. We agreed that she would start to bicycle to school if I was not back at 11:15. I went to Oslo at 09:10. The meeting finished early and I was home again at. 10:55. My Wife had already left! I drove to the village to the east and met her on the EAST SIDE OF THE ROAD. She should have been on the WEST side! She claimed that she had left home 10 minutes earlier. This makes me wonder if she was visiting him again.

I wrote to Martha about this and she came and talked to us. Martha was excessively concerned with trying to convince me that the refugee was married and a very respectable person and would never get romantically involved with anybody. I found this strange because I had not expressed such a concern. My paramount concern was that my wife has again lied to me and deceived me. There is no proof of a sexual relationship but lies and deception are proven way beyond the shadow of a doubt. They wanted to explain about the visit and I said it was not necessary and I warned that out marriage will not survive very many more lies. They insisted and I was told that the visit was not planned. My wife bicycled to the village and just out of the blue for no particular reason thought of the refugee and telephoned him. This of course is another lie. The certificate, purse and water bottle prove the she had indeed planned to visit him and wanted to keep it a secret from me.

My wife is a well-known and respected person in Guilin. Is this sort of behavior accepted in that part of China? How would people in that part of China react to this kind of lying in a relationship? Can this behavior be explained by some sort of cultural difference?


Mr Bigglesworth (6 yrs ago)
Leave her, mate. Seriously you've answered your own questions relating to this woman's integrity numerous times. You're being used. Plain and simple. Buy her a one way ticket and be done with the situation.


Listen to Kenny Rogers 'The Gambler' a few times. This is one hand you've got to fold.

Justin Credible (Part Deux) (6 yrs ago)
Oh my word, it was painful to read all of this but the only conclusion I can come to is: you got a raw deal, buddy.


I don't know. I mean, me, I am from a multi-cultural, multi-racial background. I am partnered with someone also from a multi-cultural background...and the one good thing we have going for us other than this basic groundwork of commonality is language of communication. Even if we grew up speaking different languages we are both fluent in English.


There is no room for mistaking what it is we want to say when pissed off, happy or let down.


Your first (and really ONLY) mistake was overlooking the importance of communication when choosing someone to supposedly spend the rest of your life with.


Learn from it. Honestly, life is hard enough with the chasm of cultural differences you two have without the added barrier of google translate (which, come on, lets face it, who even counts google translate as a worthy site? Its like the current iPhone maps app!)

kittycat2 (5 yrs ago)
He was deceived? He married a woman who he couldn't communicate with? He deserves everything he gets. Were you friends impressed, Mr Badnews, when you introduced your young, cute, Chinese wife? Bet they were, for about ten minutes. Really, what a ridiculous thing to do.

CaptDave (5 yrs ago)
It's kind of obvious now

(1) Martha is not a Christian. She is a busy-body and evildoer. She merely pretends to be deeply religious to win people's confidence. Some people watch soap operas on TV, others try to live in them in real life. That's Martha.

(2) You have nothing in common with your wife, whom you cannot communicate with.

(3) Your wife is dishonest.

(4) Your wife would rather hang out with Chinese people than you (Whether she's having an affair or not). And because she's dishonest, she prefers to lie about this than explain it to you.

(5) The wife will hang around because you are the meal ticket. One day she finds someone else, she will go.


Good Luck untangling this mess.

rititt (5 yrs ago)
i don't blame the wife, she's like that, cannot change it. it's the husband, i wonder why he still can't see that and didn't or can't take any action to remedy or end it.

then i would understand how the chinese wife treats him the way she does. china is very macho world, women are inferior sex, women there don't think they are equal to men and therefore women there need a man who could control and dictate their life. if they are treated equal, they wouldn't know how to behave so they would walk all over you.

Badnews (5 yrs ago)
kittycat2 my wife is 50 and I am 62. I did not marry her to impress my friends. I was introduced to her and told she was interested in immigrating to the west. So I accept the fact much of her motive to marry me was a desire to have a better life in the west, work and earn money. However I do not believe that the marriage was based entirely on that. After first staying with her in a hotel for about 3 weeks I was introduced to her mother, son, brother and sister. I moved in with her family and have spent a total of about 8 months living with her family in her large apartment in a guarded neighborhood. During that time I have been introduced to her friends, colleagues and relatives. I have been to arrangements with her relatives (Qingming Festival/ Tomb Sweeping Day) involving 50-60 of her relatives, a big dinner - 4 tables seating 10-12 persons each. I have been home to many of her friends, colleagues and relatives. 2 or 3 times a week we are dining with 8 to 10 of her acquaintances. I have been to several all-day long outings involving from 10 to over 50 persons (play cards, Mahjong, T'ai chi, karaoke, bus to nearby villages etc.) with her colleagues from the bank where she worked. During these 8 months I have met several hundred people in her social network. Would she do this if her motive was just to get a meal ticket and green card to the west? Would that be socially acceptable in China? I do not believe the marriage was a fake in the beginning.

This is what I believe was going on in August with Martha. My wife is here on a family reunification vise. She will get a permanent residence permit after 3 years. Until then he visa is renewed each year. In Norway if you are abused physically or psychologically in a relationship you can go in police and the woman’s shelter (krisesenter) and apply for a permanent residence permit. Martha has told her students about this and has helped at least one other Chinese woman that I know of to go to the woman’s shelter. My wife’s bizarre overreaction and falsely blaming me for not going to the amusement park could be an attempt to make a false case for psychological abuse. There have been some other similar episodes I haven’t written about. Previous to that I was trying to get her to agree to meet a Chinese doctor to help improve our sexual relationship. In the beginning our sexual relationship was ok. After about 6 months it started worsening. She said it would be better after she quit her job and moved to Norway with me. After moving to Norway it has just gotten considerably worse and she has become extremely prudish. Almost like a Nun. I am a person that gets immediately turned off if i don’t feel the other person is interested. This doctor has been educated in China but has lived in Norway for about 30 years. The Chinese doctor could perhaps explain some of the cultural differences between western and eastern conventions and etiquette with regards to sex. Her reaction was extremely negative and a flat out refusal! Possibly this was so repulsive to her that she was preparing a false psychological abuse case and would gain Martha’s assistance. She has also told Martha that I won’t allow her to meet other male classmates. This is totally untrue however I certainly don't approve of her lying and deceiving me telling me she is going one place but secretly going to the home of male classmates!


xpatwilier (5 yrs ago)
Badnews, it seems as though there is nothing worth saving. You should at this point look after yourself and plan to protect as many financial assets as you can.

Amparo Kia (5 yrs ago)
(sigh!!), OP is getting into a really messy situation. Years before Mainlanders were not freely allowed to enter HK (during British colony time), stories like the OPs always hit the news, HK men (mostly in their 50s, 60s or even 70s) took a Mainlander wife (30s, 40s and 50s), but usually have a age- gap of more than 10 years. When the wife finally reach the city, the first thing they did is avoid sex and get a job or apply for government shelter citing husband abusive behavior and etc…and most of them eventually got a divorce and start a new life here in the city.


I don’t blame the OP, Westerners have no knowledge and wouldn’t imagine what these women were capable of and how willing she is going to stretch for her western dream… for them, migrating to the west is an upgrade of social status, blame it on the mentality or whatever.


OP, now is not the time to look back but to move forward. I do hope you can get out of this messy situation and start all over again… as in every relationship, Love (and sex) has to be a two way street, there is no joy running alone in a highway, and it hurts when your spouse refuses to be intimate with you. For me, that is a definite indication that she is not attracted to you.


Mr Bigglesworth (5 yrs ago)
Fcuk mate, that's got to be the grumpiest reprimand for punctuation I've ever read.

rititt (5 yrs ago)
it could be tough for badnews to find another woman. if that is so, then he should maybe try to lure her back (with money, sex, talks etc...) but clearly if he doesn't mind being alone or could find a replacement, then he should dump her asap.


Mr Bigglesworth (5 yrs ago)
Rittit - If that's the case, OP can always pay for it. At least there's a guaranteed result.

Badnews (5 yrs ago)
The decline is sex interest started before she came to Norway. On one occasion she actually answered her cell phone while we were engaged with sexual activities! (I guess she was expecting a call from Wen Jiabao.)

She blamed her lack of interest on her work. She said it would improve when we got to Norway and did not need to work but it continued to decline. She does on occasion take initiative however it has also become rather lacking in variety. I find myself attracted to other women and this has not been a problem in previous relationships. This is why I wanted us to talk with the Chinese doctor to improve our relationship. My wife talked to Martha about it but Martha agreed with my wife that it was unnecessary. My wife has no problem talking to Martha and her other friends about our sex life but talking to a professional together with me is out of the question. Is it normal for Chinese women in that age group from China to be so prudish?


malka (5 yrs ago)
I can't speak for all chinese women but I do know many for whom sex is a necessary inconvenience and/or a means to an end. Think of the Confucian ideal of womanhood, to serve husband/family/clan/state, be a symbol of chastity and purity and subsume her own identity. The education and family system supported this view especially for educated middle class families in older generation - upbringing and adolescence comparatively prudish/desexualised.


I know of many older couples or not even that old for whom once child bearing is over, who have largely given up sex, or if the women only express disinterest, then the men turn elsewhere.


denisiel (5 yrs ago)
Your wife is very calculating. She included you on her family activities because she wanted to show she has a foreign husband. Perhaps you paid often or brought gifts which helps as well.


I know many Asian women as good friends and we often talk about life goals and relationships. They are quite pragmatic about what they want and the strategy required to achieve their goals. Sometimes men like that dimension when the women are acting subservient and work hard to please and nurture their man and families. Then there is no complaint. But in your case, it doesn't sound like you are part of her long term plan but more like a means to an end.


You seem like a nice person and I am sure your wife has some good qualities as well. But in the cold light of the day, I think you need to face reality and decide if you want to be possibly taken advantage of. Even if that is not the case, do you want to spend your golden years with someone who you do not understand spiritually and pysically? I wish you good luck and hope it works out the best way for you!

Nkan (5 yrs ago)
You will know whether she loves or not only when she will finally get her permanent residence permit.

rititt (5 yrs ago)
she will only leave when she finds someone to replace you.

there is no love nor affection, it's 100% convenience.

Badnews (5 yrs ago)


My wife and I had a meeting at the family counseling office in November with a human translator. She did not really want to go because she does not think we have any problems. I wrote a report from the meeting and sent it and the following letter to Martha.


12.12.12

Martha

As you can see from the report from the meeting I and my wife had at the family counseling office we are trying to save our marriage.

As you know my wife renews her visa each year. After three years she will be eligible for a permanent residence permit.

You are of course aware of section 53 in the Immigration Act (utlendingsloven) which gives a foreign national an opening to apply for a visa when “cohabitation has ceased, and there is reason to assume that the foreign national or any children have been abused during the cohabitation relationship.”

Some of the communication between you and my wife appear to be a strategy to fabricate false evidence of psychological abuse on my part. One concrete example is an e-mail my wife sent to you 16.08.12 which contained false allegations and very negative remarks about me which my wife refuses to let me read.

I sent you an e-mail 18.08.12 about her e-mail and the contrived conflict regarding your invitation to the Tusenfryd amusement park. You also mentioned in our telephone conversation 24.08.12 that you were unsure of my wife’s motives for marrying me. You claimed that there was nothing negative about me in the e-mail and quite to my surprise offered to forward the e-mail my wife refused to let me read! I overlooked your offer.

During a discussion 14.09.12 regarding, at least one, meeting with a man which my wife attempted to hide from me you again offered to forward her mail to me. You sent me a copy of my wife’s e-mail where all the negative remarks about me and her motives for coming to Norway were removed. You then lied to me when I asked you to send the entire e-mail including headers.

Your behavior in connection with this affair is highly unethical. One of her remarks could be interpreted such that her primary intention is not family reunification but to gain a permanent residence permit. Are you knowingly aiding and abetting a foreigner to gain a residence permit under false pretenses?


I do not abuse my wife physically or psychologically.

Raising questions regarding problems that could occur in connection with her son coming to Norway is NOT abuse.

Raising questions about whether it is prudent to use over $1000 to buy her a mobile telephone is NOT abuse.

Asking that she accompany me to a doctor for the purpose of improving our sexual relationship is NOT abuse.

Asking that she follow the Confucius principle "Do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself" i.e not telling the truth, secret meetings with men etc. is NOT abuse.


False allegations related to section 53, even if you are not involved, will result in immediate forwarding of all correspondence, notes and other information to the police, Directorate of Immigration (UDI), The Women's Shelter (Krisesentersekretariate og Krisesenteret i Follo) and all other relevant public authorities. In addition I will do everything in my power to expose the case in the media including independent media, blogs, YouTube and the like.


If there ever are any legal proceedings related to this affair you can expect to be summoned as a witness.


In my opinion it would be in the best interest of all parties that you refrain from any further involvement in this affair.


Regards

(Redacted )

Copy : Family counseling office



In a new meeting in December with the family counseling office my wife was told the following by a human translator:


“I dislike strongly put forward warnings or threats, especially targeting those who are close to me.

Any false information / allegations / lies about me to the police, woman’s shelter or any other public authority will not be tolerated. I am willing to devote significant resources to an aggressive prosecution of people who do this. False claims to public authorities regarding the abuse for the purpose of obtaining unauthorized stay in Norway will lead to petition for divorce, claiming division of community property that is acquired after marriage.


Elimination of a false § 53 case as a parachute is a prerequisite for further constructive work in our relationship.

If my wife sincerely believes that she has experienced events that can be described as some kind of abuse must be taken seriously. I think it is timely with a professional evaluation of my wife, or have been subjected to some form of abuse.”


Hopefully all this will stop any more thoughts and plotting with Martha about a false abuse case. If Martha has a brain in her head she will keep her paws out of this wasp nest.


I don’t think the family counseling office will help us anymore. They think “it’s difficult” because of the translator. (Translator cost money.)

My wife has actually been very nice after the meeting.


rititt (5 yrs ago)
my advice to you: accept you have made a mistake and let her go. don't waste your time, energy and money to destroy her, swallow your pride and spend whatever you have left to pursue more productive and positive activity such as finding another woman. time is precious, you are not young any longer, enjoy whatever while you can.

rititt (5 yrs ago)
or if you still love and cherish her, just have a straight talk to her saying that you are not young and you want to enjoy and spend happily the rest of yor life with her and if she doesn't want, he would let her go without creating any problem, say you don't want to fight her. but if she still wants to be with you, then she would have to respect a few rules that you will fix.

that is your only option to put an end to this mess which is killing you.

Badnews (5 yrs ago)
My wife was also told in the meeting with the family counseling office that if she wanted a divorce I would accept that. I would pay for her return flight and the return of her property to China. I would make no claim regarding property acquired after marriage.


During our marriage she has earned about 150.000 CNY. She has sent almost all to China to invest in her apartment. According to Norwegian marriage law assets acquired before marriage are separate properties. Assets acquired after marriage are common property. So in the event of a divorce case she would not get my house, car or motorbike because it is assets acquired before marriage. I tried to get her to sign a legal agreement so that also assets acquired after marriage was separate property. She refused. I am almost certain she consulted with Martha who advised her against the agreement. This is really very bad advice from Martha because without the agreement assets acquired after marriage shall initially be divided equally so I could be entitled to half of the assets (so far 150000 CNY) she is investing in her apartment in China! I will fix my car instead of buying a new.


It’s not all negative. Most of the good Norwegian women in my age group are already taken. Av those that remain a very large percentage are smokers, alcoholics, drug users, or psychotic. My sons mother drank, at the very least, 1 bottle of wine per day. Lost her drivers license. I want on a dating site and one starts ringing me. She was so drunk she filled up a 60 minute tape on my answering machine! Another wanted to tear down the molding on the ceiling to remove the microphones she meant the Norwegian government had placed there. Another had to have a taxi escort her when she drove the 41 km to visit me because of anxiety. My wife is none of those things. However the fact I apparently cannot trust her is of great concern.


rititt (5 yrs ago)
is it possible that you look outside your age group? in asia, it's still possible for older men to be with much younger women. why don't you try this category of age and if it's too difficult in your country, you should come to asia.

rititt (5 yrs ago)
i thought women are plentiful, beautiful and sexy in norway!

is the drinking due to the cold weather? i'm sure not all the older women are alcoholic nor drug addicts! you might just happen not to have met the right women.

but i must say, women in asia are much more accomodating, in every aspect, including age and money, so here in asia, it's a paradise for older men with money.

maxis (5 yrs ago)
I think you are being used.


Martha is just an enabler and sounds completely dodgy. I wouldnt trust that sneaky snake as far as I could throw her.


Your wife just wants out of China like half a billion other women and she has got that.


I would seriously consider calling it a day.


It doesnt sound like a two way street relationship. Cant hear anything nice about her.


A stray dog would show more decency and respect and appreciation of you, seriously! And would be more loyal. She is a liar sneaking around with refugees and bicycles.


If she wants to be with the refugee then why not full time eh?


Dont be a sucker, meal ticket and dormat.


Trust me Martha has schooled her up totally on the rigbts to be a full citizen of your country wihout you.


She has nothing to lose and everything to gain.


Dont be another sucker who gives these sneaky cats residency and the right to hook into your country's social welfare system. Martha has told her how it works.


Pqck her up and send her back to China and get a fresh one a d this time do your due dilligence thoroughly.



AdamRain (5 yrs ago)
Badnews, yes you are! How you could bring a woman to your country without you bothering to learn any of HER native language is appalling. As her husband you have a duty to support and encourage her in every aspect of your life together. I can understand how this poor lady feels - so far from home and isolated by an unsupportive prick like you. Mate, the ONLY reason for marriage is love. Understand exactly what SHE has given up to be with you. Put yourself in her shoes for a moment.


My wife is Chinese. When we decided that we loved each other, I studied Mandarin -( jintian wode putonghua hen hao!)! and she studied English BEFORE we married. I made sure that we live near a Chinese community. I make sure she is happy and comfortable. I make sure she has Chinese friends. I make sure she communicates with family and friends in China whenever she wants. I make sure they are welcome visitors. That is the role of a husband.


You need to stop being a selfish turd and try and make your wife as happy as possible. That is the key to ANY marriage.


Adam

Brisbane

Australa


Amparo Kia (5 yrs ago)
wow, Adam, I am impressed. do you have a brother or a twin :))


unfortunately, people (men and women both) forget how it is to love and be loved, and that is also the reason why it makes it so hard to find that someone... I totally agreed that the only reason for a relationship (be it a marriage or romantic partnerhip) is "love"...

Camillahoff (5 yrs ago)
Well it’s a small world! I know some people that know your wife! She says the marriage is a failure. She hates your cats and living with you and the cats is something she must endure until she gets a permanent residence permit and a job. After she gets a permanent residence permit and a job she will separate. She says you watch her and ask who she is talking with and she hates that. You don’t allow her to talk with male classmates. She married you because she thought you could pay her bank loans for her apartment in china where her 21 year old son lives. She says you do not want her son to visit Norway. She is very disappointed about that. She hates that you insist she go to the marriage counseling office, she says it is you, not she, who has a problem. She generally talks in a derogatory disrespectful way about you. She also says some good things about you like you are very nice and smart to make things.

(Adam and Amestris are trolls)


Nkan (5 yrs ago)
She married you because she thought you could pay her bank loans for her apartment in china where her 21 year old son lives,when they marry foreigner they are alway expecting to get one or 2 things from foreigners.I am suprise that this one has already start behaving poorly before obtaining what she want from you.I heard they normally behave very well until they obtain what they are targetting.

Greenmen03 (5 yrs ago)
Dude you are screwed, get a lawyer and end it and move on no point suffering at this age. There are a lot of young chicks out there. Just don't bring them back right away.

coconutusa (5 yrs ago)
The best post of the day!


I am sorry to hear all those. I wish the best for you.

Here are my thoughts.

Yes, she wants better life. She wants a sugar daddy. So she married you at the first place. But consider her age and social status in China, I do not think she wants to leave you unless you meet one of the two things, your income is too low, you do not treat her well. That evil Marsha is not that bad. She is just trying to protect your wife's interest.


Life is hard for her in a strange country. If you did what Adam did, things might be different today. But too bad, both of you do not trust each other. Now it is hard to fix. And when women do not feel loved, or do not love the other person, sex of course not gonna happen.


If things do not change, she will for sure leave you even she does not find someone else. As long as she can support herself, live a good life there.


I do not know the solution to your problem, but maybe you can find a Chinese speaking friend who stands on your side and trying to explain to her your sense of insecurity and your feelings for her.

Camillahoff (5 yrs ago)
I found out some things about your wife!

Your wife’s brother is involved in gambling and high risk financial acrobatics and stock market. He borrows money all the time and does not pay back. He recently borrowed 30,000 from a woman that he cannot pay back. Your wife actually would like to return to China but her brother needs the money she sends.

Your wife has been flirting with a guy from Beijing online and his girlfriend found out! Lol.

She says you controls the pc and telephone and sit beside her so she does not dare to get a boyfriend. She will wait until the time is ripe and resolutely leave the old management.

She is telling everyone you are stingy. She hates you because you did not want her son to visit Norway. She hate your cats.After she get her permanent residence permit she is free!

Better watch out! She has been asking around about sexual harassment laws. She seems to be quite ruthless.


Badnews (5 yrs ago)


I told my wife I would not renew her family reunification visa which expires in July. She is very angry. She has been in touch with the woman’s shelter. I have offered to pay her flight home and give her some money. I guess she will choose the shelter.


Amparo Kia (5 yrs ago)
I don't know exactly your state of feeling right now, whether you did love her/still love her or just for companion sake or whatever, but from an outsider point of view, isn't divorving her is the best option for you. Giving her money/sending her back to China, she is still your wife legally and she can still create trouble for you. Life is just too short to live carrying a problem on your shoulders everyday.


I know it is hard to let go, actually deciding to end a relationship is the hardest part, no matter how bad the relationship was... but it is something that needs to be done.

Badnews (5 yrs ago)
I’m now separated from my wife. Soon we will be divorced. My wife came to Norway on a family reunification visa in July 2011. I must renew her visa every year. After three consecutive years, she gets a permanent residence permit.


There have been many problems. Secret meetings with boyfriends, lies and deception, refusal to cooperate with the family counseling office, nondisclosure of financial affairs, doing things behind my back, flirting with boyfriends online are some examples.


She is no longer interested in building a future with me. She is entirely focused on exploiting me to get a permanent Norwegian residence permit and making as much money is she can.


My wife’s brother had a car accident around the 10th of February 2012? He borrowed a car from his company. He does not have a driver license. He got in an accident and seriously injured several people. He fled the scene of the accident abandoning the injured! The compensation to the injured and reparation of the cars came to 250,000 yuan! My wife and I are expected to help pay for this criminal behavior.


April 2013 I told my wife I would not renew her residence permit. I wanted her to return to China and fix her problematic financial affairs related to her apartment she cannot afford and her brother’s debts.

I also told my wife that while in China she should seriously consider if she really loved me and wanted to continue the marriage. When her financial affairs were satisfactorily under control we could apply for a new visa if we were to continue our marriage. She did not like this.

I told her I would continue paying her 4000 CNY a month and pay for her return to China.


She asked me to buy a plane ticket to Guilin 4th of May 2013. A friend of hers was also returning to Guilin on that day. I bought the roundsptrip ticket for 7.446 CNY.


Unfortunately someone has advised my wife to not to return to China. They advised her to move to the woman’s shelter and make false allegations that I had abused her! Her brother is also encouraging her and giving advice about these false allegations.


In Norway, a foreigner on a family reunification visa that has been abused in the relationship can get a lawyer to apply for a visa renewal. The purpose of this law is to protect foreigners from sexual exploitation, physical or psychological abuse. The foreigner can then remain in Norway and work or receive social welfare while their application is being processed. Processing time can take up to six months.


I have never abused my wife in any way! I will do what I can to prevent my wife from obtaining in Norway residence permit through the use of lies, deception and false allegations.


我现在和我的爱人分居了,很快我们就会离婚。2011年7月,我的妻子借助家庭团聚获得了签证来到挪威。之后每年,我必须重新获得她的签证。连续三年的更新之后,她取得了在挪威长期居住的许可。但是,我们有很多的问题,比如秘密会见男友、说谎、欺骗我,拒绝配合家庭咨询机构的工作,私下做金融理财事务,背着我做其他事情,和男朋友在线调情等等。她不再有兴趣和我创造我们的未来,只不过完全专注于利用我来得到一个挪威的永久居留证,或者就是尽可能的赚更多的钱。

2012年2月10日,她的弟弟出了车祸。他没有驾驶证,从他的公司借了一辆车,那次事故中他造成几个人严重受伤,可他居然抛弃了伤者,逃离了事故现场!事故之后,对伤者的赔偿和汽车的维修费用达到了250000 !他希望我和我妻子来帮助他对这种犯罪行为进行赔偿!

2013年4月,我告诉我的妻子,我不打算更新她的居留许可。我希望她回到中国去,处理跟她的房子有关的金融问题(由于她不能承担起的购买这栋房子引起的问题),同时也处理一下她兄弟的债务。我也告诉我的妻子,在中国期间,我希望她能认真考虑她是否真的爱我,并且是否真的想继续这段婚姻,当她处理好她的财务问题后,如果我们愿意继续婚姻的话,我们可以重新申请一个签证。她不同意。我告诉她,我可以支付她回国的路费,给她在中国期间每月4000人民币。

2013年5月4日,她要求我给她买张回桂林的机票,她一个朋友也正好那天回桂林。我给她买了往返机票,一共7446元。但是,竟然有人劝我妻子不要回中国!他们建议她搬到妇女收容所去,并且做虚假指控我有虐待她的行为!她的兄弟也怂恿她这样做,还帮她虚假指控出谋划策。在挪威,一个拥有家庭团聚签证的外国人,如果在家庭关系中有被虐待的情况,可以找个律师,通过法律途径申请签证的续签。这个法律的目的是保护外国人不被性剥削或者身体和心理上的虐待。当这些外国人的申请在处理的时候,他们可以留在挪威工作或者得到社会救济,这个时间最长可达6个月。


我从来没有以任何方式虐待我的妻子! 我会尽我所能,以防止我的妻子从获得在挪威居留许可通过使用谎言,欺骗和虚假的指控。


A friend translated this to Chinese for me. Is a translation good? Does anybody have any suggestions to improve the translation?


malka (5 yrs ago)
Good news.


I hope you find happiness soon with a good person.


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