Posted by
Nuri
18 yrs ago
I assume you stay in HK legally and have an ID card. Therefore why don't you apply for a dependant visa for her so that she can use all the benefits of the dependants, including almost free hospital care?
Please support our advertisers:
but where does your wife live? Does she live on the mainland?
Please support our advertisers:
I live in Shanghai, China and my husband and i thought about moving to HK to have our baby. My husband is Chinese who was born and raised in HK then immigrated to the US. I am american but still there are problems with anyone who isnt a local whether they are american, english or any sort of foreigner including mainland chinese. The reason why this law is in place is because alot of Mainland chinese go into HK then have their baby. They never pay the bill and just go back to china. Which has made the cost go up for locals. Yeah it is a pain but it also is for a reason.
I wish you the best of luck in finding a solution to this problem.
Please support our advertisers:
I thought that the problem was not just about the cost of healthcare, but entitkement to HK PR. As an expat, non-Chinese HKID holder, if I have a child here, he/she will not be automatically entitled to HK PR. If the parents can prove Chinese ethnicity, their HK born child will be entited to PR. No doubt I have the details wrong, but I understood that they were trying to control the immigration aspect as well as the burden on the public health system.
I know that elsewhere in the world, e.g. in the UK, people are entitled to heathcare in their local area and not choose their hospital of choice countrywide. It means that some local systems are better than others and it comes down to a 'postcode lottery', but otherwisethe logistics would be impossible to administer.
If your wife does not live in HK, then she is probably better off getting consistent local care in any case. If she is a HK resident, then surely she can get a dependant's visa and HKID card, as suggested above?
Please support our advertisers:
Yes, I think the Dora is correct - it is also due to immigration problems. Children of non HK residents, but of Chinese Ethnicity are entitled to HK PR.
Please support our advertisers:
mrsl
18 yrs ago
I don't get what is bothering you so much. She is entitled to give birth in HK, but just needs a booking. You have to pay double, you say, but that only amounts to a few hundred dollars extra (I am assuming that you are planning on using public hospitals). If you are American, surely you recognise that that is still a bargain???
Please support our advertisers:
wow 20,000 is alot considering. Doesnt matter if hes american he probably makes HKD not USD. That is normally a stereo type of living in china/HK they think ur white and got tons of money LOL.
Thats one reason why we havent relocated to HK. Although my husband is a HK citizen it may not apply to me or my kids to get health care at the local cost. I dont want to spend alot of money and have alot of hassel to have a baby.
It's really difficult what your going through with the whole thing. I wish you the best of luck!
Please support our advertisers:
I find this whole thing outrageous - and it is made worse by uninformed people like Verellene who spout this nonsense about mainland mothers never paying their bills and disappearing back into China. If he/she paid any attention to real information instead of just repeating the racist polemic gibberish from the majority of the local media, he/she would realise that something like 5% of mainland mothers don't pay their bills - whilst 95% of them pay the massively over-inflated charges from the hospitals. The percentage of HKers who don't pay their bills is far higher, but then that wouldn't make such a good story, would it.
Rocky, sorry to hear about your situation, but that's HK for you. Part of China when it suits HKers, but not when it doesn't.
Please support our advertisers:
mrsl
18 yrs ago
cara, Rocky keeps referring to having to pay double. Hence, my assumption that we were talking hundreds (or low thousands) of HK$. I'm still not clear on why Rocky's wife cannot get a dependant visa though - surely that would be the simplest option? Although, if it is true that mainlanders in a genuine relationship are not entitled to dependants visas, that's the real injustice here.
Please support our advertisers:
Totty
18 yrs ago
PLUS, giving birth in one of the p[rivate hospitals here isn't cheap either, my two ere c sections (medical reasons but not emergncy) and my husband and i paid about $80,000 for each. Wouldn't have had it any other way but that's pricey!
Please support our advertisers:
I'll switch to my more well-known profile (I guess It's just easier to be angry)
Yes.. What Cara said.
For anyone interested, here are some applicable excerpts from the immigration law (basically setting up admission for everyone except Afghans, Albanians, Kim Jong Il, Fidel Castro, and my wife)
--------------------------
39. For a sponsor who has been admitted into Hong Kong to take up employment (as professionals, investors or for training) or study, or who is permitted to remain in Hong Kong as a capital investment entrant or an entrant under the Quality Migrant Admission Scheme, the following dependants may apply to join him/her for residence in Hong Kong:
his/her spouse; and
his/her unmarried dependent child under the age of 18.
40. An application for entry to take up residence as a dependant may be favourably considered if:
there is reasonable proof of a genuine relationship between the applicant and the sponsor;
there is no known record to the detriment of the applicant; and
the sponsor is able to support the dependant's living at a standard well above the subsistence level and provide him/her with suitable accommodation in Hong Kong.
41. This entry arrangement does not apply to:
Chinese residents of the Mainland (except for those whose sponsors have been admitted to take up employment or full-time tertiary study under schemes or arrangement catering for Mainland residents or whose sponsors are Mainland residents admitted as entrants under the Quality Migrant Admission Scheme)
Former Mainland Chinese residents residing in the Macau SAR who have acquired residence in the Macau SAR through channels other than the One-way Permit Scheme; and
Nationals of Afghanistan, Albania, Cuba and Korea (Democratic People's Republic of).
Please support our advertisers:
yes - unfortunately HKers feel quite ok about crossing the border and exploiting mainlanders when it suits them and closing their borders to mainlanders when it doesn't.
Well - good luck to you and your wife with the prenancy and hope you are able to find a suitable solution to your problems.
Please support our advertisers:
KLLO
18 yrs ago
Rocky,
If your wife has tourist Visa ONLY, which means she has to depart HK every 3 months etc? Have you thought about your wife should give birth in Mainland (her home town) or U.S. so that your child will able to have welfare in your country (either China or U.S.)in future? Unless you are planning to live here for good.
Anyway, sorry to hear about your case but I still think Government is trying to protect local people's right.
Please support our advertisers:
KLLO,
Giving birth in her hometown is out of the question... I've seen the hospitals. Welfare in the US is not a problem as the baby will automatically be a US citizen, and I very may well live here for good... I will apply for PR next year at least.
Noted about local people's rights... I live in HK and so would my wife if the government was willing to give her an ID. Other nationalities who live here can have babies here without paying more. Does that mean they are local and we are not?
I find it surprising that I can get care in a public hospital for next to nothing... I would not expect to be given access to subsidized healthcare if I was not a permanent resident. On the other hand I don't expect to pay more than others for PRIVATE care, especially in a city with such an open economy.
I can't see why they can't simply amend the "rules" to say that extra cost is not required if one parent has some form of right to live in HK (permanent resident, work visa, whatever). It can help deter the influx of mainlanders with NO ties to HK (which is the main problem) while still being fair to those who already have a stake in this city.
Please support our advertisers:
KLLO
18 yrs ago
Honestly, you shouldn't blame HK Government for this as this issue has been pointed out for so long and just about to take action. It's really serious here. It won't solve this problem if there is exemption for someone has non mainland husband or work visa because there are plenty of Hong Kong men married mainland women and this figure is not small or can't guess so far. If you don't trust me, please go to Lo Wu on Friday evening and you will see hell a lot of things.
You only can blame some mainland people who ran away the fees and wanted to get HK birth certificate.
In your case, you are the unlucky one but if you want your child to be born in HK but not China, you must put up with the cost. I don't think America is as fair as many civilized countries. Look at Bush!
Please support our advertisers:
Ted, you might want to book early...
From RTHK:
"The Hospital Authority says the number of mainland women wanting to have babies in Hongkong has not yet been affected by the announcement of new measures to curb their use of public hospitals. From next month, pregnant mainland women will have to produce a hospital booking to enter the territory. An Authority official, Cheung Wai-lun, said around 700 mainland women had made bookings this week. He said that future quotas for them would depend on the availability of maternity services."
Please support our advertisers:
Thanks Claire... I will probably get it done next week.
KLLO, I may be unlucky but it doesn't mean I'm not gonig to make a stink about it. I can and will blame the government for shortsighted policy, especially when it contradicts other policy like low birth rate (they want HK residents to have kids, but if their wife is a mainlander they pay more... makes no sense). I'm sure the numbers are considerable but that's besides the point taking the above into consideration. It's discrimination pure and simple.
And Bush has nothing to do with this. If my wife had the kid in the US, it wouldn't cost me anything extra because she was Chinese.
Please support our advertisers:
nracz
18 yrs ago
Why do so many expecting mothers want to have their child in Hong Kong as opposed to the Mainland, or perhaps even their home country? In recent years especially in the larger cities in the mainland many hospitals meet international standards. I know local (Chinese) and Foreign doctors in China and I am quite confident in their abilities as physicians.
I am familiar with the one child policy in China. Politics aside, it is THE LAW and whatever ones personal feelings are about the situation one needs to keep that in mind. When I am in the mainland I follow the rules. I’m sure if one thought about it hard enough, one could find a few laws, and or by-lays that we don’t agree with in our own countries.
I am fairly certain “XPATS” living and working in the mainland are granted certain exceptions. Even locals are granted exceptions under certain situations. If expecting parents are worried about their child being able to immigrate to their home country when the time comes, don’t be. The process is fairly straightforward and really not all that complicated.
As far as expecting mainland mothers go what’s wrong with the medical facilities where they live? If one can afford to make the trip to Hong Kong to give birth surely premium medical care in ones’ own country is not an obstacle.
I seriously question the motives of people that feel the need to have a child in Hong Kong as opposed to the mainland. If it’s a second child we all know why the expecting parents are going to Hong Kong. I can completely understand why hospitals are raising fees as a deterrent. It’s not just about people trying to avoid huge fines for second child, or obtaining an HKSAR passport, it’s also about the burden existing medical facilities in Hong Kong, and local Hong Kong mothers getting the proper care they deserve. I think in any country or region people that live and work there feel the desire to take care of their own FIRST. Is the HKSAR really any different?
Please support our advertisers:
Speaking as an expat living on the mainland, my sole reason for having my baby (my first) in HK and NOT the mainland was due to the quality of healthcare. I was in a higher risk category (I wasn't allowed to fly, so going back to my 'home country was out of the question) and most importantly, I was not at all confident with the level of care or facilities I have seen here on the mainland.
As far as the delivery went, it would have been fine, but any NICU care was very poor. A woman I know who had her baby in a 'premium' hospital was very disappointed in the follow-up care of her baby, with something as simple as jaundice to treat. The 'best' care hosptial could only provide phototherapy at a separate govt. hospital and she was only allowed to see her newborn baby for ONE HOUR each day. That to me is just horrible and something I would not wish on any first time mother. In a city of 10 million plus where I live, the quality of medical facilities (whether a 'local' can afford the highest care or not) is not up to par.
We were so impressed with the care and treatment that my baby and I received in HK (yes, I went private) and know that I won't get anything close to that back in the U.S.
Good luck Ted. It's unfortunate that you and your wife are in this situation. If it's your first child, it's worth the cost to ensure a safe delivery that makes you and your wife completely confident and at ease.
Please support our advertisers:
KLLO
18 yrs ago
nracz has good point!
I am confused by Ted regarding the cost for mainland mothers because I have read newspaper yesterday and saying that HK$39000 with appointment document and HK$48000 without in public hospital. (apparently including natural delivery and 3 days wards) If I am wrong, please correct me. All I know is that mainlanders need to pay in advance.
Apparently, people spend HK$70000 (c-section) in private hospital no matter local or western or mainland. And I never heard mainland mothers pay extra $. Anyone without HKID card needs to pay full fees in public hospitals and this is not a news and it's all the same around the world. However, we can't control private hospitals prices. Ted, if your wife hasn't got ID Card, she has to pay full payment in public hospital.
If you blame HK Government on not giving your wife HKID, then you are self-centered. There are billions people in China and once the wrong message sends out to China and I guarantee you that millions people will come to HK at once.
I still feel sorry for Ted and your wife but I think you should think about going back to US for delivery if you say your wife can have welfare there, too.
Please support our advertisers:
No you're right for public hospitals. What I'm saying is even PRIVATE hospitals are raising prices. So make that akin to going to McDonald's and paying 20 bucks for your Big Mac instead of 10, based on your nationality. If you haven't heard private hospitals are charging extra, suggest you read some more articles. OR you can take my word for it because I've been given the prices (fortunately not double.. but still about 15-20K HKD more).
Also sorry, why am I self centered because I expect my wife would enjoy the same treatment based on MY status as any other nationality? I am not talking about giving residency to billions of Chinese, I am talking about those married to HK people who have some residence status (temporary, permanent, or otherwise), of which I'm one. I'm still waiting to hear a good argument as to why only citizens of six countries in the world are excluded.
Please support our advertisers:
mrsl
18 yrs ago
Ted the AA, I must confess that I misunderstood your oroginal post. I thought that you had been talking about the public system. The fact that the private hospitals have the nerve to charge so much more is beyond belief. Then again, I should not be surprised, I have yet to hear an explanation for why consultants charge more for their services to patients who are staying in private rooms. Why does it take them any more time or professional expertise to treat someone who is not sharing a room?
Aside from the fact that your nationality or tax status should not affect the costs of private healthcare (surely they aim to make a profit on every patient anyway), it is incredible that a mainlander in a real married relationship with a legal HK resident is not entitled to the same residency status. If your wife was the HKID holder and you were the mainlander, how would that affect things? This is your second child, surely it is clear that this is not a sham marriage!
Please support our advertisers:
thanks mrsl, that's my point exactly.
I am really trying to drum up some support to make some kind of formal protest, and was hoping to find others in my situation by posting. However as my situation is somewhat unique for an expat, I already received more feedback than expected here. I think any real support will have to come from locals in similar situations to mine. Also plan to contact relevant hospital authorities and any appropriate folks in the government.
Please support our advertisers:
KLLO
18 yrs ago
Ted,
Who can control private sectors? Are all private hospitals in HK charging you extra$? Or you just complain a specific one.
Please support our advertisers:
I don't know if it's all but suspect it's most (I know it's three at least). As for how to control the private sector... not sure. Perhaps you might ask a property developer, supermarket chain, utility company, or any of the many quasi-monopolies in HK.
Anyway great point and let me extend that... in most developed countries you won't be charged extra for goods in the private sector simply based on your nationality.
Please support our advertisers:
Ted> You are fighting a lost cause. The doubling of the fee is just about all the HK government can do. But it is merely plugging one hole in a very leaky dam. It is following China's edict and cannot deny residency to these children, although whether this may stem the rising flood is up for debate.
Plainly, this is all your fault, if only you had put your wife up the duff at bit earlier...
;-)
Please support our advertisers:
Hey this baby's brother was 11 months old when he/she came to be. I am but one man...
As for a lost cause, we'll see. I can't argue for the remaining hundreds of millions without any stake in HK, but I CAN try for those who do.
Please support our advertisers:
You know I just thought of something after reading the thread about pre-booking. Before this stupid policy went into effect, there was at least a relative balance between mainland and local mothers, with pre-booking useful but not always necessary (trust me.. I just did it in 2005). Now however the new policy for requiring proof of hospital booking has (presumably) resulted in a flurry of mainland women flooding the hospitals with bookings and making it much more difficult to schedule locals (expat or not) for the dates they need. More proof that this is a shortsighted arrangement which may turn out to have the exact OPPOSITE effect as intended, ie the volume does not stop but original problem of availability is same or worse.
Please support our advertisers:
Actually I believe there is a quota on the number of non-local bookings to allow there to be adequate resources for local women.
The whole fee raising is just to make it look as if the government is doing something...
Please support our advertisers:
Come to find out you're right Claire... well it seemed like a good argument at the time.
I went to make the booking today and the St. Paul price has jumped from 15K to 20K extra. Checked Canossa and it's technically more expensive, but the uplift is lower, so will give them a shot.
I asked for a copy of the new "policy" from St. Paul which stated "for insurance concerns" but no dice... went from perfect English to complete lack of comprehension. Freakin' Hong Kong man...
Please support our advertisers:
I have a few (local) friends who have had their babies at St. Paul's - it was just about the only place they would consider. Your wife should be in good hands there.
Please support our advertisers:
I will go check out Canossa today. However a new snag per the doctor. St. Paul's had raised prices due to Canossa raising prices... now he expects Canossa to raise in response. In the end you will pay based on the price that day, so quite possibly the private hospitals will engage in a price war for perpetuity.
And here's the rub... if you pay a deposit (now 40-50K), you won't get it back if you change your mind.
Please support our advertisers:
From a report on the BBC website, one mainland mother says the hospital charges are still cheaper than the fine (around US$10,000) if women give birth to a second child on the mainland. It seems the doubling of the cost won't be that effective.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6317127.stm
Please support our advertisers:
I see some heated discussions here...
I agree with Ted that if his wife give birth in US, it really doesn't matter if she is Chinese or Korean or Mexican, same treatment!
However, in HK, it looks like different treatments apply to mainland chinese mothers. BUT, considering the current uptight hospital situation is created or caused by mainly mainland chinese women, who can blame one to point fingers to them?
Because of the tight situation of hospital room, I reserved my room 2 months ago for end of April delivery. Of course, I am subject to a higher price package now (thanks to overbooking, once again thanks to mainland chinese ladies).
I know we shouldn't sterotype, but from news report, seeing these mainland chinese ladies saying something like: "worst come to worst, i will dial 999, i dont think they(the hospital) will reject me! blah blah blah" Frankly, with that mindset and attitude, what can one say?!!
Please support our advertisers:
Fair enough Pam... I can't point fingers at the government for trying to solve the problem (which would have affected me too) but I can take issue with the way they apply it.
If different treatment applies to them, why is it not applied evenly in each hospital? (Adventist and Matilda, to name a couple, do not charge extra). Also what defines a mainland chinese mother? One who lives on the mainland? I live in HK and my wife would have an HK ID if she was allowed.
On the other hand, you should NOT be paying more. If you are asked to then I would love to know more as it would help to support my argument... that these policies can end up hurting HK residents!
Please support our advertisers:
Well, when I first checked the package @different hospitals (i was 6 weeks pregnant then and now I am 32 weeks) the prices were a bit lower... I guess in order to fulfill the economic theory "supply and demand", the private hospitals seize the opportunity and jet up the prices. Do I like it? Of course not! But, "supply and demand" what can i say? If i have to blame someone, I would definitely think about pointing finger @those mainland chinese ladies who messed up the dynamic. HOWEVER, living in an open market, demand increases, price increases! Fair game!
Frankly, i dont know about the public hospital situation, but w/ the previous "over dues/uncollectiable" issues (and mainly the tabs were ran up by the mainland chinese), one can't stop but think or even blame them for certain things. Is that fair? Some will say yes, some will disagree!
Now, think about it, what make the mainland chinese ladies walk in HK and occupy facilities and most of the time, upset the "equilibrium" and still have the mindset that "they deserve"!??
I think that's the problem here...
HK government should definitely take care of HK citizens and PR first! I think you will agree, right? If the mainland chinese mother is neither a citizen nor a PR, then, sorry to say that "they don't deserve" or "they should even demand", they should wait till the HK citizens and PR are served first, if there are extra resources, of course, feel free to purchase/enjoy them! BUT, don't come here and demand something, now is scarce, and consequently, the HK citizens and PR have to suffer and "pay for the price". AND, that's not a fair game!
Please support our advertisers:
Typo - I meant "they shouldn't even demand" in the previous post!
Please support our advertisers:
For those who come to HK with no ties, have their baby, and leave... Yes I do agree. For those legitimately married to a HK citizen or with plans to settle permanently, then no.
I guess I can rephrase the question... should wives of HK residents be expected to pay more simply because they are not ID card holders? Do HK resident/PR men deserve to pay more to get the best healthcare for their families?
I'm not looking for someone to blame, unless they're the ones that are going to fix it.
Please support our advertisers:
Ted the AA you won't find much sympathy on this forum for mainland mothers.
The paranoia is understandable as HK is tiny and China is the most populous country.
You won't hear a peep out of anybody about HK people crossing over to the mainland and exploiting labour etc etc....
Obviously people can shop around all over the world for the best clothes, best wine best whatever, but if you are a woman from the mainland you can't shop around for the best medical care.
Please support our advertisers:
Ted the AA you won't find much sympathy on this forum for mainland mothers.
The paranoia is understandable as HK is tiny and China is the most populous country.
You won't hear a peep out of anybody about HK people crossing over to the mainland and exploiting labour etc etc....
Obviously people can shop around all over the world for the best clothes, best wine best whatever, but if you are a woman from the mainland you're not entitled to shop around for the best medical care.
Please support our advertisers:
Fantastic point gogis. So for all those HK people who migrated to US, UK, Aus, Canada... we'll ship them back to HK for medical care. After all they grew up with it right?
How about this then? Because I LIVE in HK and it's not real convenient for me to travel to China for extended periods with my 15-month old to visit my wife and newborn baby.
Kali.. thanks for your understanding and you may be right. I'm still not ready to give up though.
Please support our advertisers:
cd
18 yrs ago
I can see Teds point, its not the fact that his wife is from mainland China, but the fact that she is married to a HK ID card holder, has had one child here, but because of the racial bias of the government can never get an ID card herself, so despite the fact that her family are here paying taxes to the HK government she will never be accepted purely for her nationality.
Please support our advertisers:
What's the situation if the mother is a HK ID card holder and the father is a mainland Chinese? Surely then she would get HK resident prices and government services?
If the marriage is legitimate and can be proven, and Ted's ID card status can be proven then surely he should be entitled to HK Government services for his family? If he was married to a non working, non tax paying American woman she'd be entitled (to an ID card, and therefore to residents services) on the basis that her husband is a HK ID card holder right?
I could understand if they weren't married that he could be just trying to help out a mainland woman, but he's married to this lady, they live in HK and he works to support her and their family.
I agree with the HK Government standpoint on the basis of women coming in, not paying fees and leaving, and on them taking up bed space when priority should be given to HK residents (I'm a HK PR and had my baby in QMH but then I still pay HK tax even though I live in the mainland) but this situation is different to those. Of course I have no knowledge of what happens in the private sector where I guess it's more a case of prices based on demand. Difficult one Ted.....
Please support our advertisers:
KLLO
18 yrs ago
Ted, you should get your wife US passport first, then she might be easier to have HKID. I had my dependent visa few years ago but I am PR now. I am sure that immigration department in HK must tell you the reason why your application is failed. Every country has its own policy, we either take it or leave it. HK Government is not that bad comparing with most of the countries in the world. There is very sensative issue between HK and China and people should look at the big picture.
It's difficult to argue about immigration should give your wife HKID or not because we don't know all her background etc. and very personal. My point is that Immigration must has good reason for not giving your wife ID card because I have gone through the procedure and I filled in all the forms with all supporting documents during that time. It took time but as long as I could prove it.
I entirely agree with pam & kali.
Please support our advertisers:
cd - Bless you... you said it perfectly
spicegal - Bless you as well. To answer your question, the policy follows the patient. If the mother has an ID card and father does not (whether or not he's from the mainland is immaterial) then there are no additional charges.
KLLO - yes I don't blame HK immigration as China defines the quota system that says who can settle in HK.. totally unrelated to applying for PR. Unfortunately to get her a US passport she will first have to live in the US, so that's not an option. Agree every country has policies... most countries ALSO have anti-discrimination policies that prevent this type of thing... it's simply a POORLY THOUGHT OUT POLICY. How will making exceptions for HK residents compound this "sensative (sic) issue"?
Take it or leave it is not in my vocabulary, especially when it comes to discrimination. Lying down will just encourage more of the same from HK/China... we still have freedom of speech in HK and I intend to use it positively.
Please support our advertisers:
Ted, I'm in a similar situation -- US citizen working in HK, my pregnant wife is a PRC passport-holder and is staying in HK on a 6-mth tourist visa. She couldn't get a HKID because HK rule required her to immigrate to the US first, which was not a realistic option for us.
Anyway, I'm going through the same stuff you went through and certainly understand your feeling. While I respect your idea of putting up a fight for the right cause, I must say that with the shocking level of ignorance out there (see some of the idiotic points posted in this forum), it's simply not worth your time/efforts to be the crusader against discrimination in HK. Let's face it, discrimination exists everywhere, and most people will pretend not seeing it, unless they ended up being discriminated against.
I'm a believer of "what goes around, comes around". For now, bite the bullet and move on.
Please support our advertisers:
< Back to main category
You must be logged in to be able to reply.
Login now
Copy Link
Facebook
Gmail
Mail